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Cover
Sheet
STENOGRAPHIC
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Before
the
MILITARY
COMMISSION TO TRY PERSONS CHARGED WITH
OFFENSES
AGAINST THE LAW OF WAR AND THE
ARTICLES
OF WAR
________________
Washington,
D. C.
Session VIII
Pages 1075 to 1352
1075
CONTENTS
EXHIBIT
Defendants’ |
Read in Record |
A Statement of |
1078 |
--ooOoo—
1076
STENOGRAPHIC
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Before
the
MILITARY
COMMISSION TO TRY PERSONS CHARGED WITH
OFFENSES
AGAINST THE LAW OF WAR AND THE
ARTICLES
OF WAR
________________
Washington,
D. C.
The Military Commission appointed by the President by order
dated July 2, 1942, met, in room 5235 Department of Justice, at 9:30 o’clock
a.m., to try for offenses against the Law of War and Articles of War, the
following persons: Ernest Peter Burger, George John Dasch, Herbert Haupt,
Heinrich Harm Heinck, Edward John Kerling, Hermann Neubauer, Richard Quirin and
Werner Thiel.
PRESENT: Members of
the Military Commission, as follows:
Major
General Frank A. McCoy, President,
Major
General Walter S. Grant,
Major
General Blanton Winship,
Major
General Lorenzo D. Gasser,
Brigadier
General Guy V. Henry,
Brigadier
General John T. Lewis,
Brigadier
General John T. Kennedy.
As
Trial Judge Advocates:
Colonel
F. Granville Munson,
Colonel
Erwin M. Treusch,
Officers
of the Judge Advocate General’s Department.
As
Provost Martial:
Brigadier
General Albert L. Cox.
As
Counsel for the Accused except George John Dasch:
Colonel
Cassius M. Dowell,
Colonel
Kenneth Royall,
Captain
William C. Hummell.
1077
As Counsel for the Accused George John
Dasch:
Colonel Carl L. Ristine.
- - - - -
PROCEEDINGS
The President. The
Commission is open.
Colonel Munson. May
it please the commission, the full personnel of the Commission and all eight
accused, and the reporter, are present.
The following absences of counsel should be noted:
The Attorney General, the Judge Advocate General, Colonel
Weir and Major Thurman; Mr. Cox, Mr. Rowe of the prosecution; and Major Stone
of the defense.
The President. Would
you please inform us who is representing the prosecution?
Colonel Munson. The
prosecution this morning is represented by Colonel F. Granville Munson and
Colonel Erwin W. Treusch.
The President. Is
the Attorney General going to be present?
Colonel Munson. The
Attorney General and the Judge Advocate General request permission to be absent
during the reading of this document.
They probably will appear later in the day. They also requested that I so inform the
Commission.
The President. If
there are no further questions or comments, General Cox will continue the
reading of the state-
1078
ment of the defendant
Dasch.
(The reading of the statement of
Defendant Dasch was resumed as follows:)
“He said, ‘George, how would you like
to go back to
The President. May I
ask to whom Dasch is talking at this moment?
Brigadier General Cox.
My recollection is, sir, that it is Walter Kappe.
Colonel Royall. That
is correct.
(The reading of the statement of the
defendant Dasch was resumed as follows:)
“I
went home and started to work on some possible ideas and I made a five page
memorandum in which I classified three way, acts of sabotage; Military
sabotage. Each of those points I
described in itself at length and pointed out that the military sabotage would
be the most successful. By military acts
of sabotage I pointed out in this memorandum that in the
1079
out the possibility of attacking the
essential instruments for bomb sites, engines, etc. I also pointed out in that memorandum that it
was the business of an agent to locate the given heart of such industry and
attack it. I gave my advice of how an
agent should carry himself when he is in the enemy land. I tried hard to put down every possible idea
which was in my little mind, solely for the purpose of trying to prove to them
my sincerity so that I can be used for it and so that I can get going. After about a week’s working on that
memorandum, working nights and copying it myself, I delivered it personally to
Lieutenant Kappe.
“Around
at the same time, or a day or so later, I was approached by a Dr. Weessel, via
mail, and requested to go to an apartment.
On December 2 or 3, 1941, as I came to the apartment which was mentioned
in that letter, I found no one at home.
I walked away again and decided to come back again a little later and I
approached the apartment again and that young lady who worked for the High
Command, and a friend of my landlady’s happened to come down the street and
said ‘why are you here already? I will
see if Dr. Weessel is in.’ This
apartment was on the second or third floor and had the appearance of a
bachelor’s apartment. The room I was led
into was full of paintings and art collections.
While the young lady
1080
was inside I was outside in the hall
waiting and observing the walls etc.
When I was introduced to Dr. Weessel he asked me my life story and asked
me why I came to the idea of being used for this purpose. So I told him I had been away from my country
so long and about the kind of work I was doing while the poor German soldiers
were dying and crippled and wounded soldiers walking around daily, and I have
urge to do more. He said, ‘Well, tell me
in which way you think you could go to
“First
I told him I am going to give him a copy of the memorandum I drew up for
Kappe. He asked me to give him my ideas
how I could reach
“On
the 9th or the 10th day of December, 1941, I received a
reply from Dr Weessel with the following comments: ‘I received your letter and
the two memorandums. Although the
developments of the last few days has given our prospects a different phase, I
desire to still keep in contact with you by having another conference in the
near future. At present I am going on a
trip and you shall hear from me after my return. Sincerely yours, Heil Hitler.’
1081
“With
that I went back to Kappe and showed him that.
At that time I met a man who was introduced to me as a Captain. He spoke fluent English with a decided Irish
accent (or Scotch). He said to me, ‘Have
you ever been on board a sailing vessel?
Are you a good sailor?’ I said,
‘On the contrary. I sailed the seven
seas and get very sick every time like a dog.’
He made the statement to Kappe that I had the appearance of a wonderful
prospect. He claimed that I not only
looked like an American but I acted like one and no one in the world would
recognize in me a German. Kappe advised
me to have a little patience. He will do
everything to expedite the development of his plan. This Irish Captain turned out to be a German
from
“Christmas
approached. I had the chance from my
office to go on a Christmas holiday. I
declined this because I was mentally not in a state to go home and face my
mother. She would undoubtedly recognize
that something was wrong. I wasn’t sure
whether my plan would work. Therefore, I
took the offer to take my vacation after New Years with the promise that I
would get two weeks vacation because of working over the holidays. On the 10th day of January, I was
requested by Kappe to see him at his office of the German High Com-
1082
mand, and for the first time in my life
I was cross-examined by Captain Astor.
He told me that he has been in
1083
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg, Federal Bureau of
Investigation, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent:
“On
the following day, which was the 9th or 10th day of January,
1942, I came into a conference with Captain Astor and Lieutenant Kappe at this
hideout, headquarters of Intelligence -2.
There Captain Astor had my memorandum, as well as his own, and the
blanks of Lieutenant Kappe in front of me.
We went through each individual blank and consolidated all our thoughts
into one. I also was told in the near
future I shall be released from my place of employment and shall take part to
lay the groundwork for the undertaking.
I was also told that day that a group of twelve people may consider
going with me. A fellow by the name of
Eddie Kerling, who has resided in the United States for a period of twelve or
fourteen years, who has also been active in the Bund movement and is the holder
of a gold Nazi emblem which signifies that he is a man of old standing, and
myself are being chosen as group leaders.
My group was designated Group #1 and Kerling’s group designated Group
#2. I was known in the Intelligence
under the name of Strich, meaning short dash.
Furthermore, I was told about the type of people which are being
considered for this undertaking. I left
this conference with the understanding that on my return from my vacation which
was on the 26th of January, I must report to the office at the
German headquarters immediately. On my
return I was told that the start
1084
of the training period was delayed from
the first of March to the 15th of March. The form of training we were supposed to
undertake was that of the practical application and the handling of high explosives
in the manufacturing of it with ordinary drug-store products. On the 27th Day of February, I was
officially released from my place of employment. The official reasons for it, the way it is
being carried in the papers, called for military service. I was drafted by the army. My papers such as social security and
insurance and my pension fund are still being carried today by the foreign
office. I am still being kept on their
payroll. The payments for all my social
security, sick benefit, insurance, and old age pension is being carried by the
foreign office, but due to the fact that a law calls for the disclosure of the
difference of the new wage or salary received in the army and the old wage
could not be disclosed. The payment of
my wages are being today being paid under a set contract by the German High
Command. All my papers such as social
security papers are still in the hands of the foreign office. To them I was merely called into the army
service.
“On
the first of March, I went daily to a room either in the German High Command or
at the blind headquarters of Derkaukasus where I began to study the personal
history of all the other agents which were supposed to partake in this mission. I was given the privilege to pass my own
opinion upon the
1085
ability of each man. The majority of the men have lived for a
period from ten to fourteen years in the
1086
my recollection, was too strong and
that it can only be destroyed by mining it.
I also told them that it was not within my way of reasoning to use that
kind of tactics. I told them I am
willing to destroy factories, bottlenecks, etc. but I would not do that. After about ten days of consolidated work to
which a number of technicians, engineers, as well as technical experts, experts
on industry, experts on magnet industry, were in consultation, we came to the
conclusion that our object of attack was at first the light metal industry of
America and the other object the railroad system of the Chesapeake & Ohio,
the new Pennsylvania railroad depot at Newark, New Jersey, and the Hell Gate
bridge which connects Long Island with the Bronx. Furthermore, another object of attack was the
canal system, the inland waterways and especially the Siusas between
“It
was also our job to plant detonating bombs into the locker rooms which are to
be found in all great railroad stations with the sole purpose of exciting the
people. Further, This type of attack was
also to be used in all Jewish Department stores. We have implements such as pens and pencils,
time fuses set to the minute, etc. The
attack of the light metal industry was divided into two groups: Group #1, under
my own leadership, had the job to
1087
attack the aluminum factory of
“Group
#2 had its job to lay low the plant of
1088
Then not only the overhead power line
structures would have to be dynamited but also the transformers which are
unprotected and out in the open. The
transformers were to be attacked but in shooting off a few holes into them and
so that the cooling oil would run out.
The power control system in the plant itself was also considered to be
attacked in case any plant manufactured its own power. We are shown the way how to attack and what to
attack at every possible angle. We went
to Bitterfeldt and went to plant A and B.
In both plants they manufacture aluminum. Then we went to Aaken and saw two
plants. One is a magnesium plant. We were also told that before the
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Ellen E. Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in
the presence of Special Agent Duane L. Traynor:
“The
attack on the railroad system which came into consideration was to be carried
out by fixing an exact spot in the rails of a trunk line, whether a tunnel, a
bridge or a big curve like the big Horseshoe Curve in Pennsylvania. The attack on a railroad was to be done by
high explosives. A small fuse was to be
put where the two rails come together and this little fuse would,
1089
when the front wheels of the locomotive
touched it, ignite the whole works and with the momentum of the oncoming train
would wreck everything.
“During
the early part of the month of March I met a member of prospects who were
presented to me for cross-examining. It
was up to me to decide their fitness in regard to their knowledge of the
English language as well as their general knowledge of American conditions,
whether geographical, social, or otherwise.
During that time I came across a bunch of ‘nit-wits.’ Again I met others who wanted to do the work
merely for personal advancement or to get away from
“On
the 15th day of March a group of twelve people went out to
1090
business to be instructors. It was also brought to my attention that a
great number of sabotage agents were sent to
“In
a lecture by the chief instructor, a man by the name of Doctor Koenig, it was
brought to our attention how effectively this weapon has been used. He related instances such as the capture of
Fort Euben (?) in Belgium, and also the entrance of the German Army not only
into Belgium but also into Holland, pointing out that all movements were well
prepared for in advance by men who rated as citizens.
“We
received three weeks instructions.
During that time we learned to use and make materials out of chemicals
and other by-products which were easily brought in any drug store. At this time I do not remember the exact
proportions and the kind of materials which were supposed to be mixed together,
but in due time I shall have them in black and white.
“We
learned three basic materials to work with:
“1. Easily igniting mixtures to start a fire.
“2. Slower burning fires.
“3. High explosives.
“Outside
of that we learned to manufacture fuses such as electrical, chemical, and
ignition. He also told how each
individual substance of the mixture could be bought and the blind or disguise
they were
1091
supposed to be used for. We were also instructed in the proper use of
all explosives and the practical and thereof.
We had night maneuvers as well as day maneuvers.
“During
the time at Quentz everyone of us had to make up a story concerning his
identity. I suggested at that time that
everyone should try to stick to his first name and use a last name beginning
with the first two letters of his real last name. In the identity of every man he had to make
it clear where he was born. I, for
instance, was born in
“On
Thursday, April 30, we left the training quarters and went to
1092
present he is the manager and trainer
of ‘Jug’ Besselmann. This fighter has
fought a winning decision on the 22nd of April against the Italian
middle weight champion at
“Another
man, whose name I cannot remember and who came from
1093
“Another
man by the name of Ernst Zuber who came to the school directly from the Russian
front from
“The
job of these two groups, which had now arrived in the
“There
were three groups at the school: Group 1 was headed by Davis, myself, Group 2
by Kerling, or Kelly; and Group 3 by a fellow by the name of Dempsey. Group 1 consisted originally of Davis
(myself), Swenson, Pete Burger and Scotty.
Group 2 consisted of Kerling, a man from Chicago, a man by the name of
Herman Nicholas, and another man named Thomas (last name). Group 3 was made up of Dempsey, Ernst Zuber,
Richard Quintas, and Henry Kaynor. None
of these names are the correct names with the exception of Pete Burger. The man from
1094
“There
was a certain wedding out process in which Scotty was enlisted for unfitness,
Zuber refused to go along, and Dempsey was not considered because he had to go
back to training his fighter. The groups
then consisted of:
“Group
1 – Davis (myself), Swanson, Pete, Burger, Richard Quintas and Henry
Kaynor. Swanson of Group 1 never made
the trip over here because he became ill in
“Group
2 – This group remained as originally, consisting of Kerling (Kelly in the
“Now
that I recollect it, I wish to report the following incident:
“Some
time in January I received word from Lieutenant Kappe to be at the General
Headquarters at a certain time on a certain date. When I arrived there, he informed me that
within a half hour I would meet in person a man with whom I would come in
contact in
1095
of the story in regard to Bachmann was
never reopened. When I put the question
to Lieutenant Kappe, he told me he had taken Bachmann to the Swiss border that
same day so that he could travel on an American passport via
“Bachmann
is a tall man about forty-eight years of age.
He speaks English fluently and seems to be an American born citizen of
German descent. His hair is black with a
little gray. He weighs about one hundred
eighty pounds.
“The
school ended on the 30th of April.
All of us were given twelve days vacation with the exception of Kelly
and myself. We had to report back to
1096
married to an American girl and has
been a citizen since 1936. To my best
recollection he is employed at present as a machinist at some dock yard in the
City of
“During
the time in early March when I was able to go through a lot of secret papers
which the German Intelligence had on file, I came across a report from an agent
in Mexico who stated that he considered a man (whose name I do not recollect,
but who had been the Mexican Ministed to Belgium up to the outbreak of the last
World War) as an excellent agent and reliable person to build up an
organization to attack America from Mexico.
“On
the 12th day of May, the rest of the gang came back to
- - -
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Donald Oden, F.B.I., in the
presence of Duane L. Traynor:
“On
the 11th day of May, the group leader of Group B, Keirling, and
myself went to a laboratory
1097
in the German High command where we
were instructed in using secret ink. On
Thursday the 12th of May, Keirling and myself went down into the
laboratory where we marked with secret ink a number of addresses on
handkerchiefs. The addresses, which are
corresponding on each handkerchief alike, is the undercover address with which
we should reach
1098
“The
secret ink is developed by placing a secret liquid over which shows through in
red color. It won’t wash away. You can even wash it and it won’t go away.
“On
Tuesday, the 12th of May, the remaining men of both groups assembled
together in the Kaukasus in the blind headquarters at
“On
Wednesday, May 13th, we paid a visit to the railroad repair shop at
“On
Thursday, May 14th, we went by train to Bitterfeld. We left
1099
with the electricity
(electrolysis). Thereafter we went under
the leadership of the chief engineer into the plant itself. We were shown the main power house and all
the essential electrical machinery which could be easily attacked were pointed
out and explained to us. Furthermore,
the way of attacking them was explained.
We were also instructed how to recognize the flow of the electric power
either overhead or by a cable or by electric power machinery. At
“After
we remained overnight at a hotel in Bitterfeld, we took an early train to
1100
it was built under the four year plan
in 1936. There the chief engineer
explained during luncheon recess, where we were again treated to a wonderful
feed with wine and cigars and everything else, by showing us the layout of the
plant on a map how each individual unit could very easily be recognized on the
map and that it was a separate acting unit, not only with regard to electrical
supply, but also with regard to safety against fires. I found that the majority of the workers
employed at all plants were either prisoners of war or German military
prisoners or Russians who came to
1101
So, they receive between 5 and 8 marks
a week.’ I asked him if they could buy
beer or cigarettes with that money. He
said they cannot buy anything except with coupons and those coupons they can
only receive if they deliver good work.
As to the question of visiting their wives, he told me that only those
which deliver good work are able to see their wives and if the wives are
employed in a nearby match factory and the women are able to see their husbands
only if they produce good work and vice versa.
Furthermore, The Russians are brought under guard from their camp nearby
by means of a little spur railroad to the plant and at night are brought back
under guard. After I heard that story, I
made an addition in my mind and the result was slavery as only the Nazis can
make it. The same working conditions I
also had a chance to witness on the visit to the railroad yards. There I asked a foreman, ‘How are those poor
people keeping alive? They appear to me
to be starved.’ He said, ‘To hell with
them. They drop just like flys.’ I noticed a bunch of young people who could
not have been older than 15 or 16 years, also the weather was not cold, and all
of them were wearing heavy fur pieces and when I asked why they were doing it,
I was told by a German, ‘Well, them dirty bums, they wear everything they
possess. They go to bed with it and they
go to work with it.’
1102
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch, to R. M.
Bowman, FBI, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent:
“The
following Saturday on May 16, Sunday the 17th, and Monday the 18th
were given to us as free days in order to finish up our remaining personal
business in the City of
“Speeches
were made from other officers and I, the leader of the group of boys, was
indirectly called upon to reply in my own way to the officers. I thanked them for their sincerity and their
help and gave them the assurance that everyone of us would do the very best to
which we were selected. After the
dinner, we left the large dinner table to assemble around smaller tables to
which the Chief and the other officers took turns participating in the various
conversations. I spoke to the Chief for
about half an hour. He gave me the
instructions not to trust anyone that it was my secret duty to kill any traitor
of the outfit, he’ll give me the perfect right.
1103
Furthermore he gave me the right to
promise any German citizen in the
“At
1104
night and left the following night at
“The
reason of our delayed departure was explained that the submarine had to go back
to drydock. Therefore, we had to wait
until Thursday, May 28th.
“Four
boxes were taken in a private car down to the pier. Thereafter we put on dungarees which had
already been given us in
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg, Federal Bureau of
Investigation, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent:
1105
“We
were entertained by the Commander of the boat in company with Lieutenant Kappe
downstairs in the officers quarters to a drink.
And we drank farewell. After
Lieutenant Kappe left, the motors of the boat started to move and we floated
outside of the harbor. After a while we
were requested by the Captain to come on the conning tower. As we moved out of the
1106
miles.
The night the boat always comes on the surface. The first few days of the voyage I was a very
sick man. Therefore, I could not investigate
anything. On the third day we traveled
above water. I trust it to be that we
were about four or five hundred miles out of the harbor. We were making above water an average half
speed of 12 knots, German sea miles, and at small speed 10 sea miles an
hour. Below the surface with the A
machine, we made an average of 2 ½ miles an hour. I had my first consultation with the Captain
over the method and handling of our landing.
We took a look at a map and I pointed out the landing place.
On
the second day out of the harbor, the Captain announced over the loud speaker
system that we four men were on a special assignment to
1107
to be a neutral steamer, I believe of
Portuguese nationality. When I
questioned why that they were so sure it was Portuguese. They told me that steamer had been approached
by others and also that steamer travels the regular routes – the routes laid
down by the German government. Our Navy
(German) Intelligence knew just exactly which way it went. After eight or nine days on high sea I
impressed upon the Commander the wish that I would like to land on either
between the night of Thursday June 11 and Friday June 12th or
between Friday June 12th and Saturday the 13th. He told me that in order to make this a fact
he would have to take the northern route which was shorter. Then he thought of taking the southern route
a few hundred miles north of {illegible location} and would point toward
1108
makeup and made sure that it was
airtite. Then we spoke over the way we
would load it and in which way we shall use it when we land. The following two days when we came into the
main northern water towards the banks of
1109
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Ellen M. Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in
the presence of Special Agent Duane L. Traynor:
“After
we had left the more northern waters we did not have only cold weather but a
lot of fog so the Captain decided to go about two hundred miles directly south
or south, southwest. Still the fog did
not subside, but it was not as soupy or thick as in the north. There was still a thick layer of fog over the
water while the sky above was clear as a whistle. This delayed our speed considerably. We were on the bridge all during the voyage
with the exception of the last three days when we approached the American
waters. The men on duty in the conning
tower consisted of one watch officer and three seamen. All four had very good glasses; night glasses
for night, and regulation glasses during the day. Two stay in front of the tower and watch the
surface of the sea and the sky for airplanes, while the other two are stationed
at the back.
“As
we approached American waters we were forced to slow speed on account of the
fog. Another interesting note I wish to
put down in that one of the radio men whom I spoke to told me that he just
received a message from another submarine which was hit and could not pump the
water out of the floating tanks any more.
This was either Tuesday the 9th of Wednesday the 10th
of June. Furthermore, on either Wednesday
or Thursday, the 10th or 11th, we received notice from
another submarine that a big steamer of over twenty thousand tonnage was on its
1110
way between
“The
commander, after he received the message about this twenty thousand ton
steamer, put on half speed or twelve knots.
He told me that this is one chance out of a hundred to reach the boat
because the boat can make twenty knots an hour or more and goes in one direct
route. They can only take a chance to be
able to shoot at a ship if they happen to come in time into the route of the
ship; otherwise they are unable to make a try because their speed above water
at high speed is not more than sixteen knots.
I know for a fact that although the captain put on high speed he did not
see any twenty thousand ton ship.
“For
the most part of the day during June 11 we were forced to proceed under water
because of the fog and we were too near the American waters to go out or to
dodge an oncoming sub-chaser or destroyer.
The Captain explained to me that on account of poor sight which was only
three to five hundred meters and since the sub-chasers and destroyers had
better listening devices extended deep from the bottom of the destroyers, they
could hear a submarine sooner than a submarine could hear an oncoming vessel
above water. Therefore he was forced to
go under water. This also delayed our
landing until
1111
the following night. The last day we also had fog in the early
morning and we proceeded at a very slow speed.
We had already given up that we would be able to land the following
night or Saturday morning, June 13, but in the afternoon the sky cleared up a
little and the Captain ordered three quarters speed ahead with both engines, which
was equivalent to fourteen and one-half knots.
We knew about our position because they were shooting the sun
continuously. We were above water at
that speed until
“When
we submerged around
“The
two sailors as well as all of us were equipped with small paddles. The money bag and the bag with the clothes
were given to Pete Burger. He sat all
the way in the front of the boat. One
sailor had a little blue flashlight with him to signal back to the submarine to
be pulled back on the towing line which was fed us as we left the
submarine. Furthermore, I received
orders from the captain that in case I should be stopped by anyone, either a
civilian or a soldier, Coast Guard
1112
officer or so on, that I should use an act
of violence and send him back in the rowboat so that they could take care of
him.
“Around
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch, to Rachel M. Bowman, FBI, in the presence of Duane L.
Traynor, Special Agent:
“Before
I left the boat I begged the captain to announce to his men over the radio that
every man should keep his mouth shut about what he seen. I boarded the little row boat as the last
man. We kept on rowing away from the
submarine at a slow speed but we could see the submarine just going away from
us. We took the general direction of the
shore and this was established from compass on the boat. The Captain told us to put the boat
1113
in lengthwise, parallel to the
shore. After about five or ten minutes
of rowing, we could hear the noise of the surf but the noise was at some time
to the left of us then to the right of us and then straight ahead. I reasoned right away we were going in a
circle. Therefore I told everyone to be
quiet for a minute so I could listen to the exact direction of the sound of the
surf. I picked up the surf and gave
command to go that direction. As we came
closer I seen the waves rolling over and gave the command ‘Come on boys, Let’s
go to it’ and as we came to the waves the boat went on its side and we were hit
three times by the waves. We were hit to
bad that the boat was three-fourths filled with water and two of the boys lost
their paddles but we managed to get over the riding waves. I had a long oar and I tried to reach ground
which after a little ways I was able to do it.
The moment I did that I jumped right across all the boys and jumped into
the water up to my waits and I helped to pull the boat by hand and asked the
boys to come right out, and according to instructions given before, each man
took one of the boxes out and carried it right on the high level of the beach.
“I
went right away on top of the beach and took a look of the surroundings. I noticed to my horror beacons to the left of
us and beacons to the right of us but I thought we could act quick. I ran back to the boat, gave the boys
instructions to take off their dungarees and put on their civilian clothes
while I still had on the dungarees. I
left the boys to go back to see how the two sailors
1114
are making. They were struggling to make it out of the
boat and looking for their lost oars. I
helped them to pull the boat further on land and to turn the boat over to get
rid of the water, and at the same time though the landing was perfect and that
they should return on the boat. They
should only wait until I will fetch the clothes bag where the dungarees were
put to take back on the submarine.
“As
I was talking to the fellows and giving them the last instructions I was just
on my way going back on the shore when I saw to my horror a tall person walking
along the shore towards us with a flashlight in his hand. I realized quickly that this could not be one
of our men. In order that he not
recognize the two men with me as sailors of the German Navy, I approached
toward the man in quick steps. I
recognized him as an American sailor of the Coast Guard.
“He
asked me ‘what are you doing down here?
What’s up here?’ I said, ‘What do
you care what’s up here, we got lost. We
left East Hampton to go down to
“The
sailor boy asked me to come along to his station. I was confronted with a very ticklish
problem. In order to carry out
instructions of the Captain I had
1115
to lure the man back to the row boat so
that he could be overpowered by the two sailors and brought back on the
submarine. On the other hand if I don’t
do this and I go with him to the station I have it hard to explain what we are
doing here because the bags and the entire works are laying on the beach
because I knew by the actions of my fellow travelers they had lost their heads
completely. So I decided to use a little
psychology and see it I could bribe him.
I noticed then that the boy was more scared of us than I happened to be
scared of him, although I was scared of him at the beginning, because after I
went towards the boat still not knowing what to do I seen the boy was kind of
slow in following me so therefore I felt kind of sorry for him. I turned right around and hollered at the two
sailors in English ‘Get back where you came from.’ I don’t know whether they understood what I
said but I believe they knew we were in trouble but also thought the landing
was complete.
“I
approached the boy directly and as I was talking to him and telling him that I
knew that we disobeyed and that we had done the wrong thing. I thought it best for him to forget it if I
would offer him something. As I stood there
talking to him and he refused to be bribed, one of my fellow travelers came
running down the beach with the bags with the dungarees and he addressed me in
German with a few words. I directly
intercepted and hollered at him with a loud voice ‘You damn fool, why don’t you
go back to the other guys?’ with that I impressed the sailor that there were
more fellows near by
1116
and I noticed that the poor fellow was
scared so I spoke to him the following words: ‘You have got a father and a
mother at home boy. You would like to
see them wouldn’t you? You have
undoubtedly given your oath to do your duty, and I am telling you by taking
this money which I am offering you, you are doing nothing else but your duty so
please take it. You will hear from me
from
“I
gave him first $200 or $220, I did not know which as it was dark. I seen it was not $300 so I peeled off my
roll additional money to make up the $300.
The money I had in a tobacco pouch.
I asked the sailor what he was going to do with the money and he
replied, ‘Some of it I will give to my parents, some of it I will put in the
bank and I will have a good time.’ I
said ‘Boy, do just that thing but you will hear from me from
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Donald Oden, FBI, in the
presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent:
“As
I came out on the beach to meet the other fellows, I noticed that this fellow
Burger had notified the others that I had met an American sailor. They were greatly frustrated. I told them, ‘Now boys, this is the time to
be quiet and hold your nerves. Do
exactly what I tell you. Each of you get
a box and follow me.’ I was right close
by a blinker and a house. I could see
1117
the house through the fog. So therefore I decided to go inland and use a
direction towards the right. I went over
one or two sand dunes where we came into a gulch where I stopped and had the
boys put down all their bags and start digging holes with two little shovels
which we had taken along from
“Thereafter,
we proceeded inland in a low position, crawling like, until we came about a
half mile off shore. In the fog ahead I
could see a row of houses and I stop-
1118
ped because to the right was a blink
light and it always came across and to the left that one came closer. I saw we were on a point and I was going
again towards the shore. So therefore I
told them, ‘Lay still. Give me an
opportunity to surround to get my eyes fixed.’
So after awhile I told them, ‘It’s no use. It’s too dangerous to go any place. I suggest we are safer here than anywhere
else for about an hour.’ After remaining
there for one hour, I told the boys to follow me closely. I noticed ahead of me a road because I saw
the headlights of a passing car. That
gave me a new sense of direction. I went
straight for that road, after reaching it, crossed it and went on the other
side of the road into the thick bushes.
There I decided to wait at least until it got a little lighter. All during that time a number of cars passed
us and the beacons went on and on which we didn’t see from the water, and I
must admit I was partly scared myself, but Henry Kaynor, he shivered like a
dog. He said over and over, ‘We are
surrounded, buys.’ It happened that one
of the trucks was loaded with sailors which went down towards the station and I
figured that must be a relief crew.
1119
“When
it was a little bit lighter, we took the road towards the right. The first dirt road we came to we took and
walked towards the main highway which was the highway from Amagansett to
1120
We sat outside on the bench and I gave
the next instructions how the boys should behave and what to say in case they
were stopped and questioned. Around six
o’clock I noticed smoke coming out of the smokestack of the station house. So I thought this is a sign that a train will
soon come by here and around 6:30 the station was opened. So I walked into the office and looked at a
time table and seen that the next train left there at 6:57, an express from
Montauk all the way into
1121
and also shirt and underwear. I went to a restaurant to the men’s toilet
and changed my underwear and the new suit I put on. I had it tailored or changed right at the
shop and I left the store with the new clothes on. Thereafter, I went in the city of
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Ellen E. Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in
the presence of Special Agent Duane L. Traynor on Saturday, June 20, 1942:
When
my buddy, Pete Burger (correct spelling) and I reached
“On
the day of our landing, at three o’clock we met at a prearranged meeting place
in
1122
in at that hotel. I also left them on Saturday with the
understanding that we should meet again at one o’clock on Sunday at the Swiss
Chalet on
“Early
Sunday morning I thought it was time to cross-examine Pete Burger. I had breakfast with him in my room. I opened the conversation about the incident
and the words we exchanged the time we were together in a restaurant back in
Quentz. At that time he told me in a few
words enough to indicate to me that he was a man just like me. I begged him that Sunday morning to tell his
story to me, no matter how bad it was or how good it was, but to tell the truth
and nothing but the truth. If he would
do that I would tell him my story exactly as it is. I would give away my full identity and the
reasons why I went into this undertaking.
When he told me his story about going back to Germany in 1933 and
getting into high positions which brought him eventually into Poland and his
fight against the evil ways the Nazis employed against the poor Polish people
which he, as a humane person, started to fight against, which fight resulted in
his arrest and confinement to a concentration camp for seventeen months, I knew
the buy cam into this undertaking not as officially known to ‘rectify his
mistakes’ as the Nazis called it, but to get even with
1123
them.
He told me all about the trials he had during the time spent in the
dungeons and the people he met there, former High German officials as well as
leading Jewish people. He told me about
the addresses he has of leading Jewish people whom he is supposed to contact
when he got on the outside, After he told me all his life story and I knew the
boy was on the level, I told him in a few words who I was, not George John
Davis, the group leader of a gang of saboteurs, but George John Dasch, the man
who came here into this country for the opportunity to fight Hitler and his
gang in my own fashion. When the boy
listened to that, he broke out into a crying spell.
“Although
we had made a prearranged date on the day before that we were supposed to meet
at one o’clock at the Swiss Chalet on
“We
talked until almost six o’clock when I happened to remember that I had to meet
the other two boys, Dick Quintas and Henry Kaynor. We jumped into a taxi and
1124
went to
“I
also told the boys that I would have to leave
1125
as leader of the group had to contact
people they did not know, so this fact gave me the opportunity to give them a
reason as to why I was going to be away.
I told them that Pete Burger would always be in contact with them. All the while Pete Burger knew that I would
go to
“At
this time I would like to explain the reason why I had no Social Security card
in my possession.
“When
we left on the train from
“The
same day, when I was in conference with Lieutenant Kappe and the Officer for
the Navy Intelligence,
1126
we spoke about the so-called legal
American papers we had in our possession.
Lieutenant Kappe asked me to show him my Social Security card. I reached for my back pocket and noticed that
I did not have my pocketbook. I went
back to my room and could not find it and then it came to me that I had left it
on the train. On that day we went to a
French restaurant in Lorrient and had something to eat. I excused myself and went to the railroad
station at Lorrient to see the German Military Controller. I told him that I had left a little portfolio
with ‘hot’ papers in it and that I was scared to have it fall into the hands of
the French because the papers could be used to the disadvantage of the German
people. I asked him to call the end
station, I think it was Quimbus (?). The
non-commissioned officer of the guard at the station called Quimbus and found
out that nothing was found. He asked me
to return again in the afternoon. I did
not mention anything to anyone that I had lost my portfolio with its
contents. When I returned that afternoon
to the railroad station I found another non-commissioned officer on duty. When I told him my story that I was asked to
come back in the afternoon in order to find out if the lost article was found,
he asked me for identification papers.
Since none of us had any form of identification papers at all because we
moved in a group, I was unable to identify myself so he told me he would have
to see the Commanding Officer of the station who was ranked as a Captain. When I went to him, I saluted him in the Nazi
fashion and told him my
1127
story about having lost some ‘hot’
papers. I even went so far as to tell him
that the papers were printed in the English language. He told me that he would have to trace this
and would have to call up an officer of the Gestapo. He told me if I could not otherwise identify
myself he could not let me go. I
referred him to Lieutenant Kappe and asked that he have a non-commissioned
officer call him and inform him of my predicament. After about a half an hour Lieutenant Kappe
came to the station. During the time I
was waiting there, this Captain looked at me in a very suspicious way because
my German was not up to his liking. He
thought he had caught a spy. I was very
much amused, but finally Walter Kappe arrived and this Captain explained to him
that he had made a big strike and Walter Kappe decided to wait for the arrival
of the Gestapo agent. When he came he
was a big man in the rank of a Major. He
not only gave me hell for being so careless, but also gave Lieutenant Kappe
hell for having given us those papers when we actually did not need them. A record was made of the contents of the
portfolio, and Lieutenant Kappe asked the Major to ask the Captain to leave the
room. Then Lieutenant Kappe showed the
papers which he had from his office of the General High Command, and he
disclosed to the Major the whole setup.
I was released in custody of Lieutenant Kapper and went back to the
hotel. Kappe suggested to me that now
since I have lost my papers it would be very dangerous to go to America and
move about there under the name of George John Davis in which my Social
1128
Security card was stamped. I told him that I would go under the name of
George John Day.
“I
did not have a Registration Certificate because at the time when the Military
Registration Act came into being as a law I was above the registration age
limit. I also knew that it was my duty
when I got to
“On
Sunday night, Pete Burger and I went first to a bar and restaurant known as the
Queen Mary on
“On
Sunday night I told Pete Burger that it was absolutely necessary for me to get
in touch with the FBI
1129
because I reasoned that in case any one
of the other seven boys or even myself should happen to fall into the hands of
the police, it would be very difficult for me to prove the real reason why I
came here. Therefore I called up the FBI
after I had gotten the telephone number out of the telephone book. I went to a hotel lobby between 52nd
or
1130
was, and that I had a little gray in my
temples. I had him repeat what I told
him in the message, and mentioned the exact date and time when the message was
handled.
“Pete
Burger in the meanwhile had been waiting for me outside and when I came out and
told him what I had done, he was very much satisfied because he understood the
magnitude of this undertaking. It was a
check and recheck.
1131
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Donald Oden, FBI, on June 20,
1942, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent.
“Monday
I went around shopping. Monday, after
having breakfast in my room with Pete Burger, we continued to exchange our
views in regard to the corruptness of the political party. We also reopened again the question and ways
which I will undertake when I get to
“When
we got back to the hotel, I changed clothes, put the new suit on which I had
bought that
1132
day.
Thereafter we went out and had dinner.
To the best of my recollection, we had dinner at the Kungaholm
Restaurant, I think it is located on 53rd or
1133
that they knew I had left the country
and been on my way towards
1134
pinochle with one of the waiters known
to me as ‘Fritz.’ Many of the boys used
to be very good to me when I didn’t have any money; when I had lost a while
gambling. I thought now is the best time
to give these poor suckers a chance to earn some money their own way. I gave the waiters five or ten dollars and I
played cards with them. I continued to
play Monday night, Tuesday all day until Wednesday morning at seven
o’clock. All during that time a lot of
other members of the club came over to me and greeted me and asked me questions
which I did not answer directly. I
merely said, ‘Boys, don’t ask me nothing.
I cannot tell you the truth anyway.’
In that game there were all kinds of fellows betting on the side of my
opponent, the waiter fritz. At the end
of the game the conclusion was reached that I must have won about $250. That morning in order to rectify myself, to
rectify the winnings I took away from the poor sucker, I paid all their bills
of everyone in the house. I paid all
their bills. Outside of that I gave a
polish boy I know under the name of ‘John’, who was a member of the union at
1135
that I had been gambling and seeing the
old boys. Then I asked him whether he
met the other fellows and there he told me that he had met them and he told
them and the question was put up to him where I was, that I was out to see
whether their papers are correct and I was on the way to Jersey to make my
first contact with the people I was supposed to make contact with. Wednesday morning I slept until noon.
“Thereafter,
I went to Pete Burger as far as Broadway where he left me to go to a place on
“That
night I was so damned tired! That night
we had dinner at Dinty Moores, and Irish restaurant on {street illegible} off
Broadway between Broadway and
1136
Swedish place, always a different
place. I wanted him to feel at
home. I told him, Forget you are Dutch for
once!) Thereafter, I went home and went to bed because I was very tired.
“Thursday
morning I had breakfast in my room with Pete Burger where he told me that
Richard Quintas and Henry Kraynor had found an apartment somewhere on 79th
Street off Broadway, the exact street and number I do not know because I
thought it advisable that he know the exact address and gave him strict orders
that it was his business to keep the boys quiet and make them feel at home and
also go to them and tell them that I am out to get contact; never let them know
in any way that I go to Washington. I
also told them that I might leave this afternoon to
1137
I need that; that the box was not good
for my use because I had a brief case with valuable papers. So I went across the street to the
Pennsylvania Station and bought a brief case for which I paid thirty-seven
dollars and odd cents. With that I
returned to the hotel, counted my money.
I went back to the hotel. No,
before that I bought envelopes and rubber bands so that I could put the money
neatly together. Then I went back to the
hotel. As I got to the hotel, I went to
the Manager, Mr. Well, and asked him if it was possible to make a reservation
for me in
1138
the telegram from Washington from the
Hotel Mayflower which told me that although they had a convention going on this
coming week and, they would still take care of me at my arrival that same
night.
“So
I boarded the train at 2:30 at the
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg, Federal Bureau of
Investigation, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent; June 20,
1942:
“I
took a taxi to the Mayflower Hotel where I presented my telegram and was given
Room 351 with the understanding that I could occupy this room until Monday
night the 22nd at 6 o’clock.
I went upstairs to my room, cleaned up, and left the hotel, boarded a
streetcar and went downtown to look for a place to eat. I walked into a restaurant where to my
surprise I was waited on by a boy who has also been a member of the Restaurant
association in
1139
correct, in identifying the fellow you
thought I was, I mean.’ So I felt kind
of lonely that night and I invited him to be my guest after he quits work. I met this boy in front of the restaurant
about a quarter after nine and we went to a cocktail room nearby that
restaurant. The name I do not
recollect. There we had a few scotches
and during the course of the conversation I told him what I intend to do. I know as a matter of fact that this little
Jewish boy was born in
“I
left him that night and went back to the hotel.
The next morning after breakfast I took hold of the
1140
telephone book and called up the
Information Service of the United States Government- Executive 3300 – and asked
the young lady to explain to me the difference between the FBI – Republic 7100
– and the Secret Service – National 6400.
She asked me what was the purpose of my visit. I told her I wanted to pay a visit there. I told her that I had to make a statement of
military as well as of political value.
Then she told me (did not finish sentence). I do not know very much about this race
archeology, those Germans try to put into the minds of their people. It aroused my passion. It put me into a position of anger and this
position of anger was too dangerous to the security of my own self. I had to be cool and collected. Besides I was shrewd. I would fight them with their own weapons and
that of falsehood. They had it come for
this matter and the fact that I resided and reside today in this free country
and I can talk as a free person. At the
same time it shall be my work my desire in the future to prove that this acting
was merely for every cost. If I am
unable to take part in this, my trip of coming here all that I have done and
wish to do was futile. I have no desire
to use to lift no one. The young lady
asked me to call up the Adjutant General’s office and she gave me Extension
public 5700, thereafter I got extension by some other party Extension 3241 and
I think I called Colonel Grammer. I
called public 6700 I was given extension 3505 where
1141
a young lady told me that Colonel
Grammer was not in. I begged the young
lady that Colonel Grammer should call me at the Mayflower, District 3000,
Extension 351, as soon as possible. I
then called up Republic 7100 and called and got to talk to Mr. Traynor. He asked me what I had to tell him. I gave him an assured outline.
“As
I had finished talking to Mr. Traynor, Colonel Grammer called me back. I told him that I had already made
arrangements with Mr. Traynor and that a man was on his way to get me.”
Colonel Royall. May
it please the Commission, the pages that are now being read do not correspond
with ours. Apparently two pages have
been skipped.
A Member. Pages 57-A
and 57-B were skipped.
The President. The
night turn over to one of the photo-static copier. Which is what you have, is it not?
Colonel Royall. Yes,
sir. I just wanted to know which was
correct.
Colonel Alstine. If
the Commission please, the original signed copy is being read.
Colonel Royall.
Yes. I just want to know which is
correct.
A Member. I suppose
it will show up later on.
Do you have pages 57-A and 57-B?
Lieutenant Page. No,
sir; there are 57 and 58.
A Member. Well, that
is the original.
Lieutenant Page.
Right now I am on page 58.
The President.
[unreadable] any light on
1142
that at the moment? We shall take a recess for fifteen minutes in
order to have this matter straightened out.
(At this time a short recess was taken. The following then occurred:)
The President.
Please proceed with the reading.
Colonel Munson. In
answer to the question asked by the President, it appears from an examination
of the record that the pages numbered 57-A and 57-B logically follow page
58. More properly they should have been
numbered pages 58-A and 58-B. But if the
statement is read in the order in which the pages appear in the original, it will
be logical.
The President. You
will please note that, and the reporter has noted it, so that it will be
thoroughly understood.
(The reading of the statement of the
defendant Dasch was resumed as follows:)
“I
promised to keep in touch with him either through Mr. Traynor or by
myself. I then sat down and wrote a
letter to my buddy, Peter Burger, in which I told him that I had arrived in
Washington, D. C., in the best of
health, had one night’s rest, and had just begun to meet in contact with the right
party. I told him also in the letter to
keep his courage up, keep the boys together, not to lose them, and wait for
further instructions. I also told him
that I mention to him of his being a Jewish refugee.
1143
Therefore, green and bashful and begged
him to take care of him. That letter I
give to the waiter-room service waiter- to mail by airmail as he came in to
take the breakfast dishes out. Then I
started to dress. Around 10:30 A. M. the
agents from Mr. Traynor came.
1144
“The
following remarks were made by George John Dasch aside to Mr. Traynor in the
presence of Pauline Fogg, but which was not dictated:
“This
little red book with number in it I bought in
“When
I couldn’t reach Colonel Grammer and I told him I am sorry I had already made
connections with you, Mr. Traynor, when called, and in case anything happened I
would get in contact with him. Then I
sat down and wrote a letter. While I was
writing the waiter came back and I begged him to take this letter I had written
to Peter Burger in N. Y. and that I had a good night’s sleep and rest and that
I had just started to get in touch with the right people and I told him to keep
his spirit up, his chin up. I asked the
waiter to mail letter. That id is up
there. After all he is an enemy
alien. He knows it himself. He was holding himself on me. I am away now. He told Mr. Weil this kid is a Jewish
refugee. When I met this boy for the
first time he had his uniform on, in
1145
and this fellow named Scotty. I took Scotty out and talked to him. Whether he was dependable enough not to give
me away. ‘You know for what purpose you
are selected from. Have you the
courage? You have to take your life in your
hands.’ We walked towards the lake and
back. He said ‘I have a lot of
confidence in you.’ I said, ‘Boy you
don’t know me.’ It was in the plan that
each leader of a group shall have a man who is able to take his place. That person should be trusted by us with
little more news than others. It was
suggested to me by Lieutenant Kappe that this Peter Burger is the man. I had him with me. He was figured to be the assistant. The night before we left Quines to eat in
room with Lieutenant Kappe. He approached
me and said ‘Have you decided who is going to be your assistant?’ He said, ‘Who is it?’ I said ‘DeQuintas.’ ‘Pete Burger will never be my assistant
because he is too much a boy and he has too much confidence in me. I don’t like that kind of boy.’ I could not have very well given this kid
Pete Burger to what I wanted him. It
would have been difficult. This way he
is right with me. When he starts writing
you will see it all come out. You will
see who he is when he starts writing. He
can’t express himself in English like I can, but does it in writing.
“That
day in Quince when he made those statements which were directly against the
Party System. He left interment camp and
he found in me a person he could trust.
I realized the danger and I told him ‘Keep you trap shut.’ If I had not been chosen he could have been
1146
the person to be here. I would have told you about it all. He would have too if I were not here. A person who went through that much at the
hands of a bunch of dirty bums go there and destroy something to which he has
as a person no ill feelings against. He
has been a citizen of the
“This
fellow Kelly (Kierling) when I met him the first time which was at a meeting of
an organization for Germans who had lived in foreign countries. There he was in uniforms of the Nazi
officials. I don’t know today the
difference between SS, KK, and whatever so many things. They have blue uniforms, red uniforms, and
black uniforms. Burger knows the purpose
of everything. He knows the difference
of the fight which exists between the army and the SS. He knows the difference which exists between
big business and development I regards to
1147
the national housing. He knows the dirt and the fights. That is why I have seen in that kid is God
sent. Without us ever thinking about the
six months ago here we are together now.
The same line the same object to revenge, the dirty work they are not
only doing to our people in
“Dasch
remarked, ‘Do you think I shall have the opportunity of meeting your superior
Mr. Ladd? And Mr. Hoover perhaps? And the people who will understand me who are
in the business of propoganda.? Who I
wish to correct. I am sure they are
making mistakes. I know this by
listening to their propaganda—weak.’
That will be my job because I know and I know I shall try to get people
around who know other ones and then I will go over and attack them. If we are able to shorten this lousy war we
can only save the lives of Germans, Americans, English, but all other peoples.
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Rachel M. Bowman, FBI, in the presence of Special Agent
Duane L. Traynor: (June 20, 1942)
“As
far back as early February when it was my job to study all documents and
evidence which had to be used and were of some value to lay the groundwork of
this undertaking, the question was often raised of how much money each agent
should have and how much the group should have.
All kinds of figures were quoted from all the other sides; Lieutenant
Kappe often told me that he had his own ideas but that he has superiors which
set
1148
ideas and those ideas were after all
the ones which had most weight. I
consulted in this matter the leader of Group #2, Eddie Kerling, a number of
items. His estimates were in most cases
sky high. He spoke about hundreds of
thousands of dollars. He argued that if
our work has to be carried out successful an additional amount of money has to
be used for bribes. Me as a person, my
real self, was also interested to be able to get as much money as to possibly
squeeze out of the German High Command, because I had intentions to use their
own money to fight them. Also I shall
have the gratification and the satisfaction of knowing that I have robbed them
out of money that they have undoubtedly swindled someone else out of. I never stressed the money matter to a point
because I thought this was one of the most dangerous ways to give yourself away. I made it appear that I was leaning strictly
upon their own experiences in Judgment to supply the individual agent, as well
as the group, with sufficient money as they seen fit.
“I,
at that time, suggested to give each man $15,000. Kerling suggested $25,000. Lieutenant Kappe had a different idea. He said at a time each agent will be given a
set amount. He didn’t quote no figures
but that a working fund will be entrusted to each group leader. He did not also state the amount of this
working fund. Out in Quentz, at training
school, he quoted a new set of figures which I do not remember exactly no more
or how high it was, but when the question was raised how to transport the
money, I suggested that the money should be built into suitcases of American
origin. Therefore, I
1149
offered to them my old
“On
the day of the 11th of May, I happened to remember that day very
well because it was the day when I got back from my last vacation with the
mother, we had been that morning at the Laboratory Department of the High
Command to get our first instructions how to use secret ink. We remained in that Laboratory until 12:00
noon where Lieutenant Kappe came down from his room to take us out to lunch. We used to eat in a small restaurant near the
Nollenpnatr. On our way over there he
disclosed for the first time the amount of money which was granted to each man
by the German High Command and also to each group leader. And for the first time he mentioned the
following sums: ‘The Group Leaders will be entrusted with the sum of $50,000
each.’ This $50,000 was supposed to be used for operation purposes as we see
fit. Outside of that, each man will
receive $9,000 of which $5,000 each group leader will have to carry and keep in
his possession so that he will have a closer check upon his men. Four thousand dollars ($4,000 will be given
to each man. He will carry that on his body
in a money belt which was designed after I had made a rough drawing. Each agent will carry that money in his money
belt at the
1150
time of landing. That little money belt was made of canvas
goods and was to be carried around your body.
“Outside
of that each man was to receive $450 in cash.
Each $450 consisted of four, fifty dollar bills, two or three, twenty
dollar bills, some ten dollar bills, two dollar bills and single bills. When we left
“(Q Who gave you the money? A They
put it in the bag. Kappe had some guy do
it that does things like that. Kappe
took care of having money put in the bags and gave us back the bags. We merely carried them. We had the eight wooden boxes with explosives
in them.)
“I
really could not definitely know whether that money which was supposed to be in
the bags was in the bags because in that Gladstone bag where the money was, it
was in so cleverly fixed that I could not detect it with my eyes. I even went over it with my hands. I had to take it and out it.
“(Q Had the men been given their money belts?
A Not yet.)
“Just
before our departure onto the submarine I was given $1,780 in cash which I divided
into 4 separate bundles of each $445.
This represented the cash money each man had to have when he
landed. All four money belts I kept in
my Gladstone bag. Those money belts I
handed over to the boys on the night just prior our landing.
1151
“On
the night of Tuesday, May 26, when Group #2 was getting ready to be put on the
submarine they were handed over their money.
It happened that in that cash money some gold certificates which were
issued in 1932 were among the money.
Little Hebert Haupt, who in this memorandum before was designated as a
“Q Do you know whether or not they took the
gold tender along? A I don’t know. I thought for Christ sakes let you have your
own worries. Let me get over here
first.)
“On
the afternoon of Friday, May 29th, when my group was to be made
ready to be put on the submarine, that night
1152
I was handed over the cash money to the
amount of $1,780 which is equivalent to $445 each man. As I was in the motion to separate each $445,
I came across a number of single dollar bills which had a little round stamp in
the back with two types of initials or letters. The ones below were in Latin letters and the
ones above were in Chinese or Japanese block letters. I said to Lieutenant Kappe, ‘This money I
don’t want. You should be ashamed of
having supplied us with such money like that.’
I went through all the bills and I gave back enough single bills that
when I came back on the boat and I returned the bag in safekeeping with the
Captain and when I counted the money over there was exactly four times $419 so
we split it up that way.
“The
reason I turned down those one dollar bills was merely for
self-protection. I did not want to enter
the
“When
I came to the Hotel Governor Clinton I put that bag into my closet without the
dirty belongings which I had already thrown them away somewhere on the
road. Where, I don’t know. After I had told my buddy, Burger who I was
or after we had come to an understanding I said to Peter Burger ‘Now let us
find out how much money we have in the bag.’ I opened the bag and ripped the
inside out and there underneath a part of the card
1153
board were $40,000 in 8 packages each
containing $5,000 in fifty dollar bills each on each bottom of the
suitcase. ($80,000 together) As I was
taking the money out I noticed that the suitcase had gotten wet from the landing. I noticed that on some bills glue with which
the stuff was glued on was sticking. As
a matter of fact, I still have seven, fifty dollar bills which have the glue
right on them. Today I am still in the
possession of exactly $83,350 in my hotel room, of which $82,350 are in a
little leather brief case, and an additional $1,000 in an envelope in a little
valise. Outside of that I have exactly
$198.00 in currency on my body.
“Q How do you explain the fact that you have
$80,000 and you actually should have had only $75,000?)
“Now
we come to the fact why I have in my possession the amount of $80,000. Originally it was planned that each group
leader shall have $50,000 to work with.
Outside of that he will hold in possession $5,000 of each man. At the time when we left
1154
Svenson (Real name Joseph Schmidt,
citizen of
“(Q
How much was in each of the three bags and who was to have charge of the bags
and what did the bags look like?)
“As
far as I remember the leather zipper bags which are in the hands and care of
Group Leader Kerling are three of number.
One of them used to be my own and is a small green bag made of canvas. The two others are a little larger and I
don’t recall the color of them. All
three bags were of canvas. (If your
Government wishes to get hold of that money it won’t be difficult)
“While
we were in closed session with the German High Command the question was often
raised how we would dispose of the money when we arrived in
1155
ed that each Group Leader shall tell
each other where they keep the money.
This fact fits beautifully into my picture because it is now merely my
business to remind Kerling and I shall show him my money in a fake hiding place
in order that I may see his.
1156
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Wilma Carney, F.B.I, in the
presence of Special Agent Duane L. Traynor.
“Therefore,
we received at the training quarters in the Quentz the basic instructions how
to make our own dynamite as well as capsules which will ignite by fuses and
chemicals as well as by electrical ignition.
It was decided at the end of our lecture that both groups will be supplied
with sufficient dynamite, fuses and other materials which we need for the
purpose of carrying out our job. We were
shown and we received thorough explanation of the physical make-up and the
construction of each dynamite and also were shown the technical makeup of the
fuses as well as time fuses and everything connected with the work. I as a person have given very little ear to
all that was said, because I knew when the time would come and be able to land
there and those boxes are brought into their hiding place the proper time will
come when those boxes will be opened and shown and explained and proven what is
in it. I only know that the boxes which
hide explosive are marked with red crosses, one box two and another box with
one.
“Now
what those two boxes exactly mean I did not know but I think I am able to get
this knowledge out of Quintes or out of any one of the other boys. I also told them last Sunday night when I met
them at Grant’s Tomb on
1157
time to try and remember everything
what we learned at Quents. I openly
admitted to them that I have no idea what we have learned because I have never
had no intention of using it. I only
learned enough to be able to answer questions which were put to me. Many a times I was at loss. I tried hard to study because I was often
thought that if I didn’t show enough interest this lack of interest would five
them the idea that this guy George John Davis had no intention of ever using
that.
“I
marked everything down in a book I had bought a year ago in
1158
and evidence from everyone which I can
possibly get together. I am quite sure what
one doesn’t know the other will remember and this way I am able to get all
possible evidence and facts together.
That is why I gave the boys last Sunday night instructions to try and
remember their formulas and jot them down on notes and to put the notes down so
that they themselves can read them but not the next person and in due time I
can copy them. I refused to back up the
reason of this question. I told them
that it is impossible to get our boxes back but in the same time, I know the
day would come when we will be asked what we have learned in so far as formulas
are concerned in Quentz. In one box and
those are mostly fuses, chemical electrical and time fuses and clock fuses or
time fuses.
“Furthermore,
the same amount of boxes with the same contents is in possession of Group
Two—where they have buried the boxes I do not know, that is also my business to
find out. I have a lot of work to
do. But this has to done in a very slow,
sure way.
“Q You hid your boxes in the sand, was that
your idea or instructions received?
“A That was instructions to hide them away
from our landing place in a safe place only to come back after a certain length
of time with an automobile possibly and get them away from there and bring to a
safe hiding there, after they have established and found one. Maybe that hiding place is in the
1159
of establishing a hiding place, the
form of hiding place was very often raised and discussed. Very often the idea was arranged that one of
the other men who had technical background would open up an automobile repair
shop somewhere in a n isolated spot, and this automobile repair shop would then
be used as a hiding place for all the dynamite and all the materials for your
use. Some other time the idea was
approached that one of the boys he pointed out to have a farm—some abandoned
farm—and that would be used for the same purpose. Also the question was raised of how we as
individuals or in groups could prove the FBI in case we ever fell or any one of
them fell into hands, what kind of work we would be doing at this time.
“At
that time I made the suggestion that I shall form a sales agency of some kind
and get in contact with national commission houses and would use their products
for sale. This way it would not only
give us an evidence of being employed but also a wonderful blind to move
about. All those facts I have already
diagnosed at the first memorandum which I was asked to write way back in
December or November, 1941. I had to
prove to them in my own way that I had my heart and soul in it so at that time
I did not no whether I was really considered for that kind of work, whether I
had the ability. I had to show ability,
no only ability of doing practical work, but also organization work,
understand, all that I had to
1160
prove in order to use to get going.
“Q Was Group Two to bury its explosives in
the sand?
“A Same way, and to come and get it same
way. Whether they intended to do so I do
not know. What they are doing today,
where they are now, I do not know. Group
two, I shall meet the leader of Group Two.
“Before
I disclose the meeting place and time I wish to state that for the security of
grabbing those guys and grabbing the whole bunch, I should be allowed to
exercise some of my thoughts because I think I know those people, I know of
their methods and I know their ways to go about them. Even the smallest suspicion which they see
now will not only mean the impossibility of grabbing them but will eventually
mean that they know me, who I am in person, and that will not only endanger my
life, what to me means very little, but will endanger the life of my
parents. Therefore, I would like to have
a promise by hands. I would like to have
promise by Mr. Traynor that this wish is furnished consideration and after
having received his promise, by shakings hands on it, I am now telling you
where I will meet Eddie Kerling. We
shall meet for the first time on July 4 between 12 and 2 o’clock in the grill
of Hotel Gibson in
1161
Sunday thereafter and the last Sunday
in the month of July on the same place at the same time.
“Q Why was Hotel Gibson selected?
“A It was selected as the best place for the
following reasons: 1- it gives us a chance to be away from the coast line; 2-
it was in the middle of both territories because I have told them that time
when I reach the United States I shall go right down south for vacation
somewhere in the West Virginia or down in the Virginia. I did that for the reason that I wanted the
boys of my group not to know what I am doing.
I backed this up furthermore by telling them way back already in Paris
when we had last conference that upon arrival in United States after they had
found them a week or two weeks I shall send each of them away to hotel, I am
going tell them. They shall be all by
themselves in order to be secure, to get the self assurance back. But this was the reason—I am not worried
about the self assurance. I wanted to be
able to work alone because I had figured out that was how I was able to put the
thing across. The boys in
“Q Do they have some contact with Hotel
Gibson?
1162
“A No, I’ve suggested that one. I suggested many times the Penn-Alto Hotel in
“Q Do the boys in either group know the
meeting place?
“A No one except Kerling. In my group none of the boys know that I
shall meet that person at that time there and then. What relation Kerling has to his own boys
this I cannot definitely state, understand.
But he is likewise instructed to keep everything in regard to meeting places
straight to himself. So, therefore, I
must assume that he himself only knows it and no one else except just you
gentlemen in this room.
“The
following statement was dictated by George John Dasch to Ellen E.
“GROUP
2
“Eddie
Kerling is a boy who weighs about one hundred fifty-five pounds and is a
decidedly Irish type. I figure him to be
about five feet eight and on-half inches tall.
He is a very snappy dresser, has a quick short speech, but at close
observation has a decidedly German accent.
His hair is blond. To my best
recollection his age is either thirty-four or thirty-five. He has been in the
1163
mostly in the City of
“The
fingerprint card of Herman Neubauer was exhibited to me and I immediately
recognized him to be the Herman Nicholas previously referred to herein. His fingerprint card was taken on December 7,
1939, and gives his age as 29; date of birth, February 5, 1910; born in
Hamburg, Germany; height, six feet; complexion, fair; hair, dark brown; Weight,
175 Ibs; eyes, brown;
1164
build, medium. He has below his left ear a little scar which
he received in
“On
being questioned by Mr. Traynor if I knew of any relatives of Neubauer or any
of the other agents in America, I want it to be known that it was too much of a
dangerous undertaking for me to go so deep into the past history of each agent
as this would undoubtedly have aroused suspicions.
“Herby
Haupt was born in
“I
was sitting in the office of Der Kaukakus when Lieutenant Kappe called me from
general headquarters and told me that a young boy by the name of Herby Haupt
had arrived in
1165
him about
“After
I had called Kappe and told him that the boy would be all right, Kappe
instructed me to send the boy back to Stattin because it was quite early and
not yet time to go to the training quarters at Quentz. I sent him back to Stettin over the Easter
holidays to be with his grandmother, I told him to tell them that he had been
in
“While
at Quentz I studied this boy very closely.
1166
I sat with him at the same table during
mealtime and tried hard to determine his individual makeup, but I must admit
that he is a big question mark to me.
For his age, which is only twenty-two years, he is a very shrewd boy.
“At
the time we were at Quentz it was the plan of the German High Command to use
kayaks for landings. Each kayak has room
for two men. They were delivered on the
proving grounds at Quentz by a group of soldiers of the German Army. We learned how to take the boats apart and
put them back together, and finally took them out on the water. This was part of our training course. All of us were of the opinion that it would
be extremely dangerous to try to land with those little boats, especially when
the surf is high. We all expressed that
belief to Lieutenant Kappe. He merely
said that was why we were there and that we would have to take chances. He said that when we put our weight into them
and the weight of the two boxes the boats would be keep in the water and would
be easier to navigate.
“I
don’t know how long it was we were practicing with those boats, but one day
when I and my group happened to be in the laboratory for the purpose of
receiving additional instructions, one of the teachers came in and said that
one of the boats had turned over in the middle of the lake and the boys were
struggling in the water. I raced down to
the lake and saw Lieutenant Kappe in a boat in the middle of the lake and I saw
two boys holding on to it. The water was
pretty cold
1167
then because when we arrived at Quentz,
perhaps two weeks before the time of this incident, part of the lake was still
frozen. Another thing to the
disadvantage of the boys in the water was the fact that the uniforms at Quentz
consisted of heavy military clothes, heavy boots and uniforms which at one time
belonged to the Polish Army. These
uniforms had been dyed blue in color. In
the meantime, while those two boys were struggling in the water, a large rubber
boat used for training purposes and which could hold at least twenty men was
manned by the remaining fellows, including instructors as well as some of the
officers who were there for instructions.
They did their utmost to reach the middle of the lake. They finally got there and pulled in the
boys. I stood and watched from the
shore. When they finally came back I
learned that the boys were Kerling and young Haupt. They were blue-white. Kerling had the presence of mind while
struggling in the water to pull off his heavy boots and pants. Haupt lost his head and almost drowned. When he came out he was black and blue. We took off their clothes, rubbed them with
alcohol and gave them some alcoholic beverages to drink and put them to
bed. The next day neither of them showed
any sign of their experience of the day before.
To our satisfaction, the original plans to use these boats for landing
were abandoned. Kappe went back to
1168
and said that the German High Command,
after having listened to the story of this incident, reached an agreement with
the Navy Department that the crew of the U-boat would land us with their own
boat.
“(There
were three ways of landing: First, in a sail boat; second, with the kayaks; and
third, in a boat put out from the U-boat, which was the last plan.)
“To
come back to Herby Haupt, I wish to state that he is a romantic type of boy who
left
1169
freighter and sailed to
“Haupt
is about 5’8” or 8 1/2” tall, weighs around 150 or 155 lbs., has decidedly wavy
dark hair and green eyes. He is a
clean-cut looking boy. He goes for
flashy things. He wears a big silver
Mexican ring with Indian signs inscribed on it.
1170
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Donald Oden, FBI, on June 20,
1942, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent:
“One
of the members of Group 2 is a boy whose German name I do not recollect at this
time. He was born in
1171
to him that night for about a half
hour. The next day Lieutenant Kappe asked
me what I thing of this boy, whether he would be a prospect for our
undertaking. I told him I was quite sure
he was the right type of man. I thought
I might as well take along a single man because I had to take someone along
anyhow. ----------(I missed about 3
sentences before I noticed my Stenotype ribbon wasn’t working)
“Q Did you know him by the name of
Thomas? A. No sir. I never knew his name at all. The only way that I was able to know any one
of the boys that went across with me was that on the way over on the Japanese
boat we had a group picture taken and the way we sat all names were put down
and also the addresses of all the boys were copied and put on each. We at that time formed a club. I corresponded with a number of boys which
came back with me and I think I also wrote him a Christmas card because the
time when we entered
“Q Talking about Group 2, I would like to get
some picture as to how their landing details were
1172
worked out; who selected the place for
them to land—
“
“Q How do you know where they (group 2)
landed?
“A Because I was told by the intelligence
officer on the day when we got the map out.
He told me, ‘That is where you are going to land (pointing out spot on
map to Mr. Traynor), and that is where they are going to land.’
“Q Was it the intention of the landing party
to land as close to town as possible?
“A No, a little way from town.
“Q Was any distance suggested?
“A No, nothing. It was to be a safe distance.
“(I
was out of the room for a moment) Way back in
1173
Keirling and I asked him in which way
he wished to transact the landing and how he was going to go about after they
landed. I told him at that time it was
necessary to express our views and have our plans made known so that if there
is any mistake in his or mine we shall correct it to each other. There he told me that he intends to split up
his group into two parties, each representing two men. The first group will be headed by him and the
fellow John Thomas. They will go into
“Q What was he going to do with his
explosives?
“A He had to carry his explosives inland
where, after they found a safe spot, they were to bury them in the ground and
then in due time after they had found a better place, go back there and get
them.
1174
“Q He intended to pick them up after he went
to
“A No, no, no, come back later, maybe a month
later.
“Q I wanted your reasoning as to the fact
that they landed either Saturday or Sunday.
“A While we were on our voyage, it was told
to me by the Captain that he had contacted the other boat; that they were at
that time only 200 miles away from us.
Later on, in order to be sure that we were landing first, I asked the
Captain, ‘Have you heard of the other boat again?’ He said no.
But I put the question point blank at him again and that was on the day
of our landing, ‘Do you think that this boat is landing today already or
tomorrow?’ He said, ‘No, that is
impossible. Their route is much longer
than ours and I do not know in what speed they are approaching and I do not
know what weather they are going through.
Therefore, I cannot give a definite answer.’ I said to myself, ‘Now it’s Friday
evening. We land tomorrow morning. I don’t think they will land before Monday or
Tuesday night; perhaps at the earliest date, Sunday night.’ I am quite sure that when I meet this fellow
Keirling that he will verify my figuring that they didn’t land before Monday or
Tuesday, June 15th or 16th.
“Q Was the plan to use any explosives by
either group prior to meeting in
“A No.
You must go to work. No,
sir. It was
1175
decided that both groups should take at
least two months, if possible three months.
It was laid on our heart, ‘Boys, take your time. If you don’t do anything in the next six months,
it is strictly up to you.’ In this respect I spoke to Eddie Keirling and I have
told him I think I must agree with Lieutenant Kappe. We have got to be very, very careful and slow
and lay a good foundation before we are able to do anything, and he agreed with
me. I am quite certain that those boxes
are still buried somewhere on the
1176
that if they got to someone, I want to
know it.’ I noticed that the Kappe
looked at me very funny at the time when I told him about it. I thought he had doubt in his mind or asked
himself, ‘Why does this fellow want to know that?’ Really, he looked at me in such a funny way.
“Q What about the territory that they were to
operate in?
“A The southern part of the
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg Federal Bureau of
Investigation in the presence of Special Agent Duane L. Traynor on June 20,
1942:
“Q I would like to get some descriptions of
Henry Kanard or and John Quintas in Group 1.
“A John Quintas is a man of thirty-two years
of age. He is about five feet nine. He has a small face, altogether gray wavy
hair and could easily pass as a man of forty years of age. Q. How much does he weigh? A. About 145 pounds. Just like me.
Very often people say, ‘Are you brothers?’ His eyes are blue. He has a little hook nose-a Jew nose. He could either pass a Jew or a Latin type. He is very swarthy. That is why he became in the story a
Portuguese. You would never think he was
a Dutchman. Q. First of all,
1177
where were you born? A. In
1178
while working in a plant when a piece
of iron from the machines flew into his head over the right eye. He is a typical German. His speech is that of a German, decidedly
German accent. He is what I would
classify him as a typical German spy.
Dumb and big mouthed-if he is safe, yellow as a coward when in
danger. I though he was one of the
fellows once who told him something he would go through with it. Q. What are the color of his eyes and his
trade. What is that? A. I don’t know. He worked as a chauffeur. But he lived most of the time during his stay
in the
“Sometime
early in February, Lieutenant Kappe told me that this coming weekend he shall
make a trip to Drauneschweig in order to see two clients which were considered
for this undertaking. When he got back
the following week he told me his mission was very successful. They had a nice gathering and a joyful time
with plenty of whiskey. There I wish to
state that the day in
1179
sent through the Party to this
organization. This is more or less a
reservoir to my way of reasoning of all the people they might use some day to
their advantage in the respective countries in which they have lived. I take it for granted that just as Kappe
takes care of people in
1180
One thing is certain, that is that this
fellow Kierling and De Quintas, when I met them the first time at Quentz they
came there for the sole purpose of learning how to operate telegraphy. Only at the time when they were assigned to
my groups because Kierling and Quintas were friends so I had to keep them
together-Dick Quintas. I raised the
question to Lieutenant Kappe why they abandoned idea of them in learning to use
telegraphy.
1181
“He
told me at the time that the Navy Intelligence office decidedly was opposed to
that. The reason why they have
opposition is, that I know as a matter of fact that they themselves use people
in this country and send them in this country to do the very thing. They did not want to have any interference
because one of the radio men in the submarine told me two or three days before
we landed when asking after I was unsuccessful to get any details from the
Captain about the whereabouts of the submarine I approached the radio—and I
asked him in a very casual manner, ‘Why don’t you get any news from my friends
in the other sub.’ He said ‘No not that
but we get news from another one.’ He says, ‘Don’t you know there is another
one making a landing party.’ I reasoned
that if there was any other landing party originating from the other German
High Command I would know it. I did not
know what the Navy High Command was doing.
This German Naval Commander not only went along as a man to introduce
Lieutenant Kappe to the Navy officials but at the same time he has been there
to send off a group of Navy boys just as we were coming. Three big landing parties. He knew a lot about landing. He was telling me about the others
landing. (Aside: I spoke to a soldier
who used to live at my landlady’s place prior to the time of his service and
came up on a furlough and was a Nazi.
How could you expect him to be different? I felt his tooth a little bit. That was last fall. He has been with a supply outfit supplying
the air force and I told what a hard struggle they had in
1182
them.’
I said ‘That is a lot of work you have over there.’ He said, ‘You have no idea what is being
wasted.’ Furthermore, I will try and put
in my speeches, I have tried to get names of persons may in
“He
served on two different outfits with the National Guard. I have seen his honorable discharge papers in
1183
time after, whether a month or a year
or years, he returned to
1184
ed to me names which to me did not mean
anything but he put his story in such a concrete way that he knows a lot. He wanted to tell me the story, but I didn’t
have a chance to listen to all he had to tell.
I said ‘You have to come to
1185
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Rachel W. Bowman, FBI, in the presence of Duane L.
Traynor, Special Agent: (June 20, 1942)
“In
regards to communication, I have an undercover address in
“I
was instructed to write to this cover address with secret ink, the formula of
which I was taught and the way to use it on the back of ordinary business
letter. I should always write the same
letter at least three or four times each with a different business hand and
signed always with a different signature but always having the first two
letters in my last name in that signature in the last name. I was also told to use this
1186
coverup address until such time a new agent
has arrived in this country.
“It
was also decided to find a way to write among us. Also we should write in secret ink and I was
right from the beginning against it also so was this fellow Quitas. But we made one definite plan in which we
will address each other and that is as follows.
We shall always address by starting ‘My dear Eddie’, or whoever he may
be, because if in case anyone of the agents falls into the hands of the FBI and
under cross-examination is forced to expose some of the other fellows and must
go ahead and write this fellow to come and see him, he will undoubtedly be
forced to write a letter to this fellow and the letter will be addressed ‘Dear
Eddie’ and the moment Eddie gets that letter it shows it was written under
force. That was also one of my great
ideas which went over with a gang.
“This
boy Leiblt according to the testimony of young Herby Haupt, told him personally
on or about the first week in May, that he believed
1187
“Dr.
Risenbrown is an American who works for the Ministry of Propaganda in a
department called the Anti-Commintern. I
happened to meet this person being introduced by Prince Bon Lippe. Prince Bon Lippe was it in the
“I,
personally, talked on two of these articles and then recorded on records. I did that purposely so I was able to listen
to my own voice over the radio. To my
surprise I could not recognize myself.
It fit beautifully in my plans that I hoped to carry out to talk against
them and still eliminate the danger of exposing my identity by my voice.
“A
boy known to me as William Clark Von Schaible is born American and comes from
1188
ness of tobacco wholesale and he has
put out of business when the Germans advanced into
“The
following statement was dictated to Ellen E.
Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special
Agent Duane L. Traynor on June 21, 1942:
“Q Will you continue about the communications
and four ways you had of sending letters with different names. Were you given any other instructions?
“A
We were given assurances that the
next group to come would be given further instructions. These persons would be taught the operation
of short wave wireless. In this way
close contact between us the home country would be established. If and when they were to come was not
definitely known. We only knew that if
they did come it would be around September, and they were to be under the
leadership of Dempsey. “Q. Now were they
going to get in touch with you
1189
or Kerling?
“A Through
the so-called basic address, which happened to be for me the address I had
given for my little brother. They could
always reach me through that address, and they could reach Kerling through his
address. I am not sure that I have
Kerling’s address on the handkerchief.
There are three or four addresses on it and I know that one is in
“A I was asked if I had a better address and
I told them that I did not know any reliable people. I undoubtedly could have given them some
other addresses, but I did not want to involve any innocent people in this setup
so I gave them the fake address of my little brother. I made up the address quickly out of my
mind. As clever as I tried to be, I was
confronted with the question as to where my brother lived and I immediately
gave them
“Q Did they give you any address in this
country where other people might
1190
get in touch with you?
“A No.
They gave me only one address of a person I was to approach. That person was a Lutheran priest. When I asked Lieutenant Kappe who he was, he
told me that the man was all right and that he knew the catch word and he had
left
1191
I reasoned things out and in my way of
thinking I was right. Again, I might be
wrong.
“When
I approached Kappe I told him that I was not satisfied with my job as it did
not satisfy my ideals. I told him I came
to
1192
the Fuehrer and I took it all in.
“This
was not in August because at the time I was with the
1193
When I first approached the G-1 Agent I
had give Kappe as a reference. He told
me that he thought Kappe wished to see me.
Kappe knew that I had made an application with G-1. Barth knew exactly where I lived and we used
to go out together and I confided in him that I was willing to do something
big. He said Kappe told him over the
phone that he wanted to use me. I
therefore had two fellows interested in me and one or the other would show me a
way.
“Q What about the Lutheran minister? Do you know when he came over or how?
“A No, I don’t, but Lieutenant Kappe told me
that he had been in
“Q Where is he located?
“A His address is on the handkerchief. I think it is in
“Q Is he supposed to have a congregation of
some kind?
“A
I cannot tell you that.
“Last
Sunday I had to give the boys in
1194
them an excuse for my absence.
“Q About these boats, were they to come over
later? Did they have any particular
address other than your brother’s address and Kerling’s address where they
could possibly get in touch with you?
“A In that respect you have to put yourself
in my shoes. I dodged anything that
would tie me down to this racket for any length of time. I gave a thought to what was going to happen
when they came. I knew that this whole
works was to be disclosed by me.
Furthermore, it was possible that this fellow Kelly was coming over here
convinced to just do what he was sent for.
He may have given some other address, but I don’t know about this. I figured if he had any addresses and if he
needed them I would make it my business to gain his confidence because Kelly
did not trust me. I made the mistake of
taking the whole thing too lightly.
During those three weeks at Quentz I acted just like a jackass because I
had no desire to take part in this, and in order to cover up my desire to learn
this business I became playful. When I
was approached by Kappe and accused of not being sincere because I did not get
my men together in a group and pay attention to them and discuss plans, I told
him that I had though about this and had come to the conclusion that we could
not talk about something the details of which we did not know. I explained that the men might possibly get
all kinds of ideas and become soared. I
told them we would learn later just what to do.
1195
I decide that I would have to be able
to make quick decisions on a moment’s notice and I explained this to him. He fell for the story. When we landed here and I was able to fool
that little Navy boy, I related that very same argument to the boys. I told them that they had been accusing me of
not being sincere, but I told them I was just as serious as they were, but I
was the kind of man who acted quickly and made fast decisions. I explained that exact plans could not be
drawn up months ahead. We had to be able
to make the right decision when the proper moment came.
“When
we were at Quentz we held discussions and I found out that all those other boys
were typical Germans and that you could not discuss anything intelligently with
them. They had only one idea and if that
idea was not allowed to carry the floor, they all became mad at you. I decided this was no way to gain their
confidence because if I isolated myself I would never be able to reach
them. They would run away from me when
we got to this country. I could not let
it get that far. That is why last Sunday
night at Columbia University when we walked down that street, 116th
Street or whatever it was, Henry Kaynor told me that he knew they used to argue
with me and did not think I was sincere, but that I proved yesterday morning
what kind of a leader I was and that they believed in me and would do whatever
I would say. I told them to look for an
apartment and that Pete Burger would be with them as I would be away for a few
days. I told them to have confidence in
me. I said
1196
I had checked on their papers and
contact some people for a few days.
After they left, I told Pete to keep in close touch with the boys as I
would be going to
(At
this point the Attorney General entered the court room.)
(The
reading of the statement of George John Dasch was resumed as follows:)
“Q Do you know when these boys were to come
over with fellows who transmitted wireless messages, and if the equipment they
were going to use was here or if they were going to bring it with them?
“A They were going to bring it with
them. Richard Quintas and Henry Kaynor
were introduced to me to me at Quentz as the two boys who had to take this
course and were designated for that work.
They were supposed to at that time to learn how to operate the telegraph
and short wave radio set. I asked Kappe
if they were taking the equipment along with them and if they had good
equipment. He said that they had the
best and would take it with them. I
asked how they would do that. I had
learned all about this equipment at the place I had been working. We had one office that was nothing else but a
locator of secret situations. I snooped
around and found out what I could. Kappe
said the equipment would be carried along with them. They would build it into a car and an aerial
would be attached to the car which would be extended way up. They could go into different sections of the
country.
1197
“I made a statement yesterday and I
wish to repeat it because it is very vital.
When finally about two weeks later the groups had been changed or
regrouped because Scotty and Ernst Zuber were taken out, this fellow Quintas
was put directly into my group as was also Henry Kaynor. I asked if they were going with me to operate
the telegraph and short wave wireless.
Kappe said they had changed their minds and were not going to send
anyone over with any equipment. He said
he could not tell me, but the Naval Intelligence was opposed to it and advised
us not to take anyone along.
“Swenson
had been in
“I
then told him what it was all about. I
told him it was an outfit which assigns people to go back to
1198
willing to go along. I asked him how much he knew about
The President. If
there are no comments we will recess for one hour, until 11:30.
Whereupon, at 12:30 o’clock p.m., a recess was
taken until 1:30 o’clock p.m.
1199
AFTER
RECESS
(The Commission reconvened at 1:30 o’clock p.m.
upon the expiration of the noon recess.)
The President. The
Commission is open.
Colonel Munson. The
full personnel of the Commission is present, as are also the eight defendants
and the reporter. Of the prosecution
staff the Honorable Francis Biddle, the Attorney General, and Major General
Myron Cramer, and the Judge Advocate General, Colonel John M. Weir and Major
William T. Thurman continue absent, and also the civilian members of the
prosecution staff, Mr. Oscar Cox and Mr. James H. Rowe, Jr.
Of the defense, Major Stone is still absent and Captain Hummel of the
defense is also absent.
(The reading of the statement of the defendant
Dasch was resumed as follows:)
“On
Friday, the 15th of May, when we came back from our inspection tours
of the factories, I spoke to Swenson and asked him to tell me about the hook-up
out there. I asked him if was sent to an
address here from there. He said that he
was. I reasoned that he had been only a
few days in
1200
were in doubt about the sincerity of
Swenson. I asked him to tell me more
about him. He had come from
“I
sincerely believe that we are the first ones since the war to come here to do
sabotage, but they are also working in the Naval Intelligence. That is why those bums know exactly where the
ships go. They receive this information
somewhere in
1201
machine copied down the message in the
correct way in the German language. This
message was put in a black book in which is written the hour and everything
else connected with the message. All the
officers including the helmsman read the book daily and have to make a sign
after the message and I saw that some of them were marked with red pencil. I could not afford to ask them to let me see
the book as it was too dangerous.
“Q Would you say that this machine translates
a code into the German language?
“A Yes, I know that for a fact. I sat there and saw it was written this
way. It was readable as German script on
the little machine underneath.
“I
wanted to go into the radio room on the third day out to sea, but the corporal
on guard stopped me and said he was sorry but no one was allowed to go in
there. I had to think of another way to
be able to get in there. When we were
about four or five days from the American coast, I went to the captain
(Leichner) and told him I would like to be able to sit in the radio booth and
put on the short wave band and the long wave band (they also have a middle band
over there) for the purposes of listening to announcements in regard to
restrictions on the beaches and anything else which I would have to know in
order to lead my group through safely.
The captain fell for this. I
really meant it, too, as I did not want to be caught while landing. That gave me the opportunity I wanted so I
told the captain that the non-commissioned officer
1202
had refused to let me go in there. The captain took me along and went to the
officer’s station and told him that I should be allowed to go in. When I went in, I told the man on duty that I
knew the short wave radio and asked if he had a long wave band on it. It was the same make as the one where I had
worked. The trade name of this apparatus
was Telefunken. All the apparatus were
under the same name. In one corner there
was a little apparatus with a round disc and I was informed that they could
send and receive with that but only for a short distance. Then there was a short and long wave set just
like a regular radio set which anybody could buy. To the left there was a large apparatus and a
dial was hidden or built in it and there was a big lens over it and a light by
it. I did not dare to ask any questions
because I did not have any engineering knowledge and could possibly not
understand the correct meaning of everything.
Next to this was a bookshelf and underneath that was the little
typewriter previously mentioned. Then
there was another machine where there were three round discs and I think it was
here that the messages came through.
This machine was somewhat like a cash register. Different letters came out and the little
machine worked underneath it. He put the
messages in the black book. Next to this
they had another little room and in that room they had a round disc which was a
listening device with all the degrees marked on it. They turned a wheel and a little white
1203
thing went along with it. When they heard something they knew exactly
at what degree the noise was on. We were
going at two and one-half knots speed under water when approaching the
coast. There was an officer continuously
watching this machine and jotting down the degrees. They had two earphones and the officers
picked up the earphones and listened in.
At one time they had heard a fishing trawler. The lieutenant reported this to the
captain. The captain put on the
earphones and listened and then said it was a fishing trawler. I asked him how he knew. He said he could tell by the revolution of
the engine. After a while the young
fellow said the same noise could be heard in another direction which indicated
that the fishing schooner was going away from us.
“The
following was directed by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg, Federal Bureau of
Investigation, in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traynor, N. D. Wills,
and Frank Johnston on June 21, 1942:
“Q From your conversation over there do you
know whether the wireless was intended to send messages across the ocean or
direct? Do they intend to have some
radio receiving spot in
“A A short wave from the
1204
dashes.
What you call it, Morse Code.
That is what those guys are supposed to know. There are two boys in
“Q What other contacts were you to have in
this country besides this address in
“A No.
I also have the undercover address which is a secret address at which
Kerling could be reached. In case I lose
contact of Kerling through this so called address I use that address.
“Q If you don’t have it on the handkerchief
you referred to where is it?
“A No where else. I could not very well put all this into my
noodle. At least give us the opportunity
to take something along I told them. I
wanted to mark down in secret ink the whole formulaes and I decided not to do
that for two reasons. First, I had to
get myself the necessary ingredients.
That might make me give myself away.
Second, if that paper is found on me there is some one to have it. Some of the boys know it very well because I
heard them repeating it. They have it in
their head. It is up to me to get it out
of them. However, I have already
prepared for them.
1205
For he very fact that the boxes are in
a very poor spot gave me he thought that by telling the boys Quintas and Kaynor
that it was very dangerous to get boxes and to put it down in such a way that
when I come to them I can get it. That
was just last Sunday. When I told them
that the boxes were in a very poor spot.
Without suspicion on their side I will get the formulaes.
“Q You had no other persons to contact in
this country?
“A No, sir.
“Q Did you have the names of any persons who
were going to be recruited in your organization?
“A It was also the job of this whole
undertaking to recruit a number of responsible people who have formerly been
members of the group which other men of these groups have had acquaintance with
previously. I thought this idea from the
beginning to the end because I argued it is bad enough that eight boys should
know what we are doing, if more people should be called in for it. They might be law abiding citizens but by our
so-called talk we are at the same time helping them to commit a crime. It is different though. If, maybe the other fellows, like Kerling and
others, who ever the others are, they might have been approached by Lieutenant
Kappe in an entirely different way. On
the night of the farewell party with the Colonel, after we broke up from the
dinner table and we went over to separate tables I took this opportunity and
sat down with Colonel
1206
Chief and I talked with him in order to
make my old case secure. There I raised the
question ‘Do you think it advisable in order to make this organization there
larger and with that in the same time more effective to meet the confidence and
cooperation of other people, Germans which come from some of my buddies, as
well as Lieutenant Kappe, have already made friends. Do you think it advisable to get them in with
us?’ He said ‘It is fundamentally,…, it
would be the biggest mistake to do that.
Because what a person has been a year or two before he cannot be
today. At that time they may have been
Bund members, today they are aliens or may be citizens in the country at war
where laws, stricter laws are being enforced and on face and facts which we
must reason to be in the hands of the FBI.
They are being closely watched.
You are talking too brave a chance to go in there.’ He said, I beg you do me one favor. Kindly make it an official order from you
that anyone of us being directed to do that approach to get others in because I
reasoned that I am quite sure because Lieutenant Kappe said the following
‘Listen boys, go ahead and work on the nationalistic spirit, the homesickness
of those fellows. Promise them
anything. Promise them even heaven and
earth. Promise them to get money when
they get back to
1207
you do that it is to their
advantage. Then they will tell you
smoothly how wonderful you are. You are fully
German. And the kid, I don’t know, who
has been an American, that would be hurt.
“In
1926 I worked as a waiter in the Blue Bird Inn in … which was located on the
corner of 25th. My boss who
was at that time a close friend of W.F. Ryan in
1208
there, had on the second and third
floors roomers. I was instructed that
when I went out there the State Law of New York State in regards to renting
rooms, it was necessary for each man or couple not only to register in the book
but also have at least some luggage on them.
Some of the time, wait, sometime in the month of September, no August, a
man came into the restaurant and I served him his luncheon or dinner, or whatever
it was, and after that he gave me a good tip, I think about $2. I was kind of suspicious and I put that money
into the cash box because I was handling all the money, you know. About a week later that man came again and
this time with a young lady and he appeared to be like an ordinary citizen. He paid his check and gave me again a good
two or five dollar tip and said ‘Goodbye George, see you again.’ The first two weeks in September he returned
again and this time with another young lady.
He had then spoke to me and gave me a good tip and said, ‘Listen George
I want you to do me a favor. You have
rooms upstairs, haven’t you? I am a
married man. I would like to have a room
up there.’ I said to him, ‘I am sorry
you can’t do that. Yes, you have to
register for a room but you have to have a bag.’ Anyway he persuaded me to give him a room
without registering without luggage and they went upstairs. I had that day gotten a brand new Chevrolet
car. And when one of the boys came
around I said to him to come back and see my car and I was showing him the car
in the garage and a shot was fired and this
1209
fellow ‘Bill’ happened to be near the
exit of the garage; he ran out first and I seen where a man with a gun in his
hand pointed the gun at him. I came
around the car and followed him and right away kicked the gunman in the
back. And this fellow he fell down on
the ground and pulled out a whistle out of his pocket and before I knew it I
was surrounded by a bunch of guys. I was
taken inside the place and hen I come in why I see my friend the good customer
and am Assistant District Attorney of
1210
criminal.
“Q Did they furnish you any names?
“A No.
That is why I begged this Colonel he should give strict orders to
Lieutenant Kappe and Mr. Kerling that none of us men should go out and proceed
to persuade those fellows. Maybe it was
given, because in a hotel room in L’Orient on that day we left I had the final
argument in the room in which Lieutenant Kappe, Henry Kaynor, Richard Quintas,
and Peter Burger sat. The question was
raised there and then whether this fellow Kaynor should approach a German boy
he knew who is married who is an American citizen, has a. child, lives someplace (the address is in
that little red book I lost out there on Amagansett) Oh yes, St. Albans, I believe, in
1211
the way those dirty Nazis work. They are willing to risk the lives of the
future and security of anyone. You
understand. They have not done that in
“Q Did Lieutenant Kappe or anyone else over
there give you a list of people who might become organizational members?
“A No, because I have told you over and over
that I was tickled pink that the departure came so quick because he was a Nazi
and I tried to be a counterpart and by doing so it was my natural self and he
is not a dummy. I think he smelled it.
“Q Do you know whether Kerling or any other
boys were furnished lists?
“A I had that addresses in the little book I
have lost. After I was on the beach and
landed. Kaynor has often asked me on the
submarine whether I have got the address if his friend in St. Alban.
Well, he said he would like to go there because he even sent me money
and payments to my wife in
1212
hiding place and wish him to help me
out some.’ I said, ‘If you are unable
under the camoflauge papers you have to carry yourself or to move about that
you have to have help and get other people to do that, then you are no good.’
“Q No one else furnished any names to
recruit?
“A In my group no one with the exception of
the five we had in the hotel room was there ever mentioned any names. This little boy, Pete Burger, does not know
anyone.
Quintas does not know anyone either
because he leaned with my away of reasoning because it was injurious and too
dangerous. Only that little coward of
Henry Kaynor because he proved to be a coward.
But I say that it is my sincere conviction that this fellow Kerling who
has been a real active member and the same way this fellow Herby Haupt I think
those two fellows are supposed to approach someone. I don’t know who. The reason on which I base my suspicion that
Lieutenant Kappe must have asked Kerling to approach people was one statement
that I made that I had lived in
“I
figures if that Captain says to me ‘Mr. Davis, I
1213
am sorry I have got to take you back to
L’Orient’, I will never go back there alive.
I will jump overboard and open my mouth and die like a man. That is why I had the courage to do
everything when the moment of our landing came.
I even had to bribe the poor kid Collins. I just couldn’t do anything. I shivered inside. ‘What can I do?’ for the privilege of having
come to a place without any strings tied to me without being caught before I
was able to talk so that I was able to talk of my own free will and come here
of my own free will and then talk without being caught and prove my sincerity
after being caught and in order to avoid that was the only way I could carry it
out.
1214
“The following was dictated by George John
Dasch to Donald Oden, FBI, on June 21, 1942, in the presence of Duane L.
Traynor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnston,
Special Agents:
“Give
me the chance I’ll deliver the whole damn thing complete. I want to do it thoroughly. It’s the Dutch in me.
“Q George,
what’s in this notebook that you lost besides the address of this friend of
Kaynor’s?
“A Outside
of that is an address of relations of my wife in
“Q What
else?
“A I
think the very last page I have got the figures which President Roosevelt gave
in his radio speech in January, the figures of the production of tanks, planes,
and ships and tonnage of ships. Because
tight after that I went on my vacation.
I have told the people what President Roosevelt said, and I told them,
‘Kids, this war has not begun.’
“Q Was
there anything else?
“A No.
“Q You
didn’t have any formulas?
“A No,
sir, nothing.
“Traynor: We hope to find that little
book.
1215
Dasch: It must be laying there
somewhere on the beach.
“Q What’s
the value of finding it? A. The
value? Traynor: All we have is one
address, two addresses for you and one address for Kaynor. Dasch: The value first of all for me as a
person is to get in touch with my woman, to reach those people out in
“Q What
else could be in it?
“A.
I cannot remember. I know I had two or three addresses and when
I was asked by Kappe in
“Neil Stebbins was his name from
“Q What
does the book look like, George?
“A A
little ten cent book, black cover. I
bought it in
“Q George, what are the differences between
intelligence 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6?
1216
“A I couldn’t tell you exactly.
“Q What is your understanding of what they
are?
“A Look, I have told you that all sections in
the German Government, especially in the German High Command, know only what
they are doing and don’t know what the others are doing. When I came to Kappe and said, ‘Section 1
approached me,’ I think he said it was the main intelligence and the others are
branches – this doing that and another doing something else, and Intelligence
Service 1 is the head of the whole section and then 2 is sabotage, 3 is, I know
this for sure, censorship. Four, I don’t
know, five, I don’t know and six. There
are all together six numbers. I could
not at any time take the risk of trying to find out. That is too deep, you understand, too
risky.
“Q George, it is your understanding that
possibly Dempsey will lead a group coming over here in September? Do you know whether this is his correct
name. A. No, sir, we only called him
Dempsey because he used to be a fighter.
That isn’t his right name. That
is his official name in High Command just like my official name is Strich, meaning
dash.
“Q Do you know whether he had ever been in
this country before?
“A Why certainly, he has been in this country
from 1912 up until 1921 or 1923. Because
I said to him, ‘Jesus, your English is very beautiful after you have been away
from the country for so long. In 1921
1217
or 1923 he went back to
“Q Did he ever fight in this country? A. Yes.
Q. Under what name? A. Oh wait a
minute—Smith—I’ll come to his name, let me think. He was a bellhop out in
“Q What weight did he fight at? A. I would venture to say he was a little
light weight. He’s heavy set now. I think light weight. Billy Smith is his name. He was known as Billy Smith. Listen, I think I can get his German
name. I had it in my notebook in
1218
over to a place I know.’ And when we got there it was on the
Kurforstendam. As we got there I was
introduced to this fellow Dempsey, alias Billy Smith, and his wife for the first
time. That night when the party broke
up, he went my way in the subway and the fact that I had been in the party of
Lieutenant Kappe, he opened up a little bit, and he opened up to the extent
that he put the question to me. “Are you
with the intelligence too?’ I said,
‘Yes.’ ‘Well, let’s shake hands. I am with them a long time.’ I have got – Billy Braubender is t he name!
“I
told him that I am employed with the foreign office and he said to me
‘Where?’ I said, ‘Out in the Seahaus
with department R (radio).’ For Christ
sake, I worked there,’ he said. I said,
‘Until when?’ ‘Until last June.’ For Christ sakes! So you are the guy who was called away from
the General Headquarters because the day when Lieutenant Kappe called that
place, that branch in the foreign office, he said to this chief out there, ?erra
that ‘I have taken two [unreadable] away from you and I am sending one who fits
in beautifully.’ That fellow Braubender
was one of the guys who was taken away by Lieutenant Kappe. That was the guy who already went through in
August or so in that school and got all the preparation and was on his way to
1219
type of a guy. One of those race track types, you know, and
I figured, “Christ sakes, this guy isn’t doing this for the sake of his country
but for the sake of the money and any type of a guy like that you have got to
be very, very, careful with. Because he
told he gambles and that he played the horses all the time. According to what he said I judged him,
“Christ, this guy is no lover of his country.
He is in for the money.” He asked
me at the station that night, ‘Are you getting paid?’ I said, ‘You ask me too many questions.’ I wasn’t being paid by the General High
Command. I was paid 15 marks a day from
the last of March, 1942, after being released from my former place of
employment, the foreign office, Department R.
“Q Did he ever hold any titles while he was
boxing over here?
“A I couldn’t tell you.
“Q Do you know of anyone he fought against?
“A This I couldn’t tell you either. He mentioned all kinds of fights. Like any golf player, he shoots in the 70’s,
like every ball player, he was a major leaguer, etc.
“Q Where did he have most of his fights?
“A I think in
1220
the telephone. Officially you can’t carry two names in
“Q What part of the
“A This answer I could not tell you correctly
because I am not in a position to know what they intend to do in six
months. I could not very well ask them
because I am quite sure I would not have gotten an answer. ‘That’s none of your damn business. Don’t ask questions.’ And I certainly avoided every question, because
that would have aroused suspicion.
Anything I found out I had to use certain methods, carefully checked
twice in order to get together datA. If
I had used other ways, perhaps I wouldn’t be here today.
“Q I can appreciate that George. What sort of description would fit this
fellow?
“A Billy
Braubender is a man about 5’6”, 45 years of age, about 150 pounds (big stomach),
on lower jar missing several teeth in front.
Q What color hair? A. I
couldn’t tell you that --- grayish. He
had little grayish hair. Yes, he had
grayish hair. I only saw him five or six
days. Monday he left. He was our physical instructor.
“Q He
wasn’t bald?
“A No,
he had grayish hair. Please don’t ask me
such. There are so many bald heads. I want to tell you something. When I came to
1221
to look for a reason. And another thing I noticed when in
“Q Has he a plate or anything for those false
teeth?
“A. He
has no false teeth. I have false teeth
for Christ sakes. I am going to get them
fixed soon if I am at liberty to do so.
“Q You have no idea, or do you have any idea
when he is expected to take out from
“A I have told you either September or
October because the question was put, he told me, ‘Listen, when I follow you
guys over there – it’s going to be September or October and it’s going to be
cold.
Give me that leather jacket.’
“Q That is his idea when they are coming?
“A He wouldn’t know. The High Command decides on that. But I reason this way. His group is not complete. They need a certain amount of time to be
trained. Is that correct? Now it was June already when Walter Kappe
went back to
1222
He was to have 10 days rest with his
wife and children in
1223
it.
Jefferson Hotel in
“I
figured at that time that this fellow Dempsey will never come, and if he does
come, well he will go where he belongs.
I figured already in the meantime the Dutchman somehow or others will
have gotten wise that this whole gang of eight men are in the hands of the FBI.
1224
“Q Why did you reason that way?
“A Is it difficult to reason that way? No, because I did not know up to this day
whether this fellow Kerling has any other addresses he has to approach. I did not know whether that person Bachman which
I had to meet in January took up in the High Command merely to take a look at
me. ‘You two gentlemen will meet around
the 4th of July in
1225
“Traynor:
What’s that, George?
“A On the day when I will meet this fellow
Kerling, I would appreciate very much if I were given some form of
identification papers which under the existing laws and rules and regulations I
would be able to get myself. Why am I
saying that? Because this fellow Kerling
will undoubtedly out a question up to me, ‘How far have you advanced and what
have you done?’ I have to show that I
have done something in regard to our so-called work and have to prove it to
him. This will also help to gain his
confidence the more. You understand? For instance, he also knows that I lost my
Social Security Card in
Traynor: In due time.
Dasch: When the 4th of July comes around, it is too
late. Try and make it your
business. Traynor: We’ll take care of that.
We’ll work out the other plans about what papers to get. Dasch: I have no right to tell you what to
do. I perhaps put it wrong. This was merely a suggestion and an idea
which was tendered merely to get to the bottom of this whole
1226
thing because undoubtedly if I go there
empty handed, then maybe he might get suspicious. For it is no good for you to get another
person into your hands without knowing exactly who he is. It is your business to get the whole layout. It is up to me to get the other. In that way I am willing to cooperate with
you if you just help make this work a little easier.
“Q Something I don’t get quite straight is
this business of your giving him your leather jacket.
“A The leather jacket?
“Q Yes, what are the circumstances
surrounding that?
“A Because I wanted to take this leather
jacket to
“Q This meeting place for you and Dempsey,
was it arranged just the day you left?
“A That was arranged between Kappe and
myself.
1227
Now undoubtedly it is possible that he
spoke to Kerling two days before and they left on Tuesday night and perhaps
maybe a different date with him or perhaps a different arrangement. I do not know. But the fact remains that the question about
meeting the third group I will have to raise with Kerling and check whether his
meeting place corresponds with that of mine.
“Q Do you know whether Dempsey has any
relatives or does his wife have any relatives?
“A That I could not tell you.
“Q What about methods or communicating in
this country between members if your own group and members if the other
group. What methods were you to use
outside of this code word, Franz Daniel Posterious?
“A That code word was only to be used to
people who have been already hired or sent here or know the whole group,
understand, by the German High Command.
Also this fellow Bachman, maybe he is here, I don’t know. If he would be here he would also be the man
that knows the pass word. I don’t know
whether he is here or not.
“Q How about the
“A No, I think that was an address furnished
by the little Herbie Haupt. I think he
gave that address that used to be a hideout or undercover address for the
Bund. I am not quite sure, but the
correspondence between groups went as follows:
The groups will only correspond among each other or to their
leader. No group member could ever
correspond with a member in another group because only the leader of each group
would know where
1228
his men were and as well the leader of
the other group wouldn’t know where the men of the first group were. In other words, Herbie Haupt could never know
where I am. Neither could he know where
Dick Quintas is. His leader though would
know. If he would know where I am, then
his leader is not living up to his instructions. This whole works here about how to get
together I laid down in just about the same formula when I made my first five
page memorandum at the end of November or December. I already thought that this was the only
possible way to catch the whole gang together.
Because you mustn’t forget when once they are coming to this country, I
have got to find a way to hold on to them.
And that was suggested to me and I reasoned the soundness of that idea
was that I have told them in such a way the whole setup could never be disclosed. In case anyone was caught, he could not know
the whereabouts of the others. I shall
know it. For instance, if I were to meet
Kerling, under no consideration would I tell him where the other boys were.
“Q George, over in your room you showed me
two little metal cut designs similar to a pig, a porcupine pig. Would you explain to us the method of
communication using those porcupine pigs?
“A When I was on the submarine, I noticed
that everyone one of the other three boys who were with me had ample time to be
alone. I saw them and studied them
closely and I noticed that they did a lot if thinking. I felt that sometimes my words had no effect
on them. I felt they were slipping out
of my hands. That already goes back to
the night of the row we had in the hotel.
1229
That Henry Kaynor has never forgiven
that I have told him that I kill him if he once more calls me a bad German, and
his buddy Dick Quintas with him. I had
to prove to him somehow or other that I was on the level. So I noticed this little porcupine pig
insignia on the caps of all the marines, the navy boys on the submarine. So I figured, ‘Christ sakes, that is a good
way to put myself in good grace.’ I went
to the Chief Engineer and I said, “Listen, Dutchy, do you mind making me eight
of those little porcupine things. When
you finish, bring them to me.’ He
brought them to me the next day. So I
got the boys. I said, ‘Listen, fellows,
I want to tell you something. I want
everyone of you to have two of these things.
Because when we go out and we are in the cause of operations and in our
work, through some way or other you are unable for some reason or you have to
send a man to me, you only have to give him this thing and say, ‘Greetings from
Dick’ and I know the man is all right.’ They
said, ‘Boy, that is a splendid idea.’
The peaceful relations between the boys and myself was to a great extent
again restored.
“Q The porcupine pigs then are significant
only in your own group?
“A That is correct. The others wouldn’t even know that this sign
exists.
“Q Do you have any signs to be used between
group leaders?
“A Not signs, the same way kind of
address. Say for instance, I write to
that fellow Eddie Kerling.
1230
I write him a card or letter addressed
to him, ‘My dear Eddie.’ Then he would
know that I am all right. Furthermore,
when I write him a letter, ‘I like to see you.’
I have told him I like to invite you to see a ballgame on such and such
a date, Forbes Field in
“Q That is a code to be used between you and
Kerling?
“A No, between everyone. That is the same method to be used between me
and the little boy Peter, Peter or Henry Kaynor, or the other. I am not supposed to write anyone of the
other groups. That is the group leader’s
job. Understand?
“Q Would Kerling get in touch with his men by
writing the same way?
“A Yes, the same way. This was understood for all eight men. If one of us were forced to write a letter in
order to lead the men into the hands of the FBI, he would say, ‘Dear Henry,’
and that would be enough. This was my
idea.
“Q Would you have the same means of communicating
with Group 3 or any other group that came over here?
“A No this was only for us.
“Q Did Lieutenant Kappe work out for you any
plans for communicating between various groups using code words?
1231
“A Nothing.
That was strictly up to us. We had
to do our own thinking and own planning.
When Kappe came, he usually greeted our boys and then took Eddie Kerling
and myself out in the garden or in the room upstairs. Then we discussed further plans and went over
things—when we were going, when the trip starts, how long school lasts, the
date of our visit to the factories, plans, and all this and that. The question of amount of money was raised
again. We were asked how this boy was
doing, how that boy was doing, etc.
“The
following was dictated to Ellen R.
Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special
Agents Duane L. Traynor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnston on June 21, 1942:
“Q Yesterday you were talking about Kerling
and his group splitting up and two of the boys going to Chicago and Kerling and
Thomas going first to
“A Their first step was to go away from the
place of the landing and in a direction away from the shore. This was generally agreed upon back in Quentz
because it would be safer to be inland than down at
“Q Did either Kerling or Thomas know anything
about
“A No, I don’t think they knew
1232
“Q Do you have any idea that they had
relatives or anyone there?
“A None whatever. They would only go to
“Q Do you know if they were going to stop at
any particular hotel?
“A No.
“Q Have you any idea ho long they were going
to stay there?
“A No, but I heard Kerling express himself a
few times that he might go to New York and, as I made the statement before, he
wanted to go to New York to my way of reasoning to get in touch with his
wife. After all, he was away from his
wife two years and it was natural for him to want to see her. He said his wife was all right.
“Q Had you any reason to believe he was not
getting along with his wife?
“A I don’t know. I have no reason whatsoever.
“Q Was he corresponding with her?
“A I don’t know that. I never mixed into the private affairs of
Kerling. As a matter of fact, he
1233
spoke very little about himself.
“Q When you were describing your activities
of the landing and the things that occurred there, you stated that after
burying these boxes you started in toward land, wandering around a little bit,
and you buried something else. Have you
any recollection what it was?
“A No, I cannot recall what it was.
“Q Would it be clothing?
“A It must have been a box of clothing or
German cigarettes. I remember something
about a package of German cigarettes, but I cannot be sure.
“Q Was it something you wanted to come back
and obtain?
“A No.
The only thing I wanted to come back to get was the damned boxes of
dynamite and the clothes which were close by.
To be frank, I would have to look for the clothes because I did not bury
the clothes. I had to go back to Quintas
to look for my clothes which they had taken when they were in such a hurry to
get away. I had been in dungarees all
the time. I looked in the bag and my
clothes were not there. They, in their
hurry, threw mine out to get to their own as mine were on top.
“Q Did you in any way mark this spot where
you buried the other material?
“Q (By Dasch) What other material?
“Q You said you buried something else?
“A No, I don’t know. The shovels!
What did they do with the shovels?
I left there after the boxes were covered. I covered them with my hands and it might
have
1234
been shovels that were buried as they
were still laying there. I just don’t
remember. I was so mad at them because
of everything that had happened. They
were shivering with fright as we had almost drowned while landing. It was dark and foggy and you could hear the
roar of the surf all around us. The
waves rolled over us and we were thrown around like a nutshell.
“Q You said that each man, while he was back
in school at Quentz, had to prepare a story as to his identity and so forth.
“A That is right.
“Q Are you acquainted with the stories of
your own men only, or do you know about Kerling’s group too?
“A No.
Let us start with my own men. I
had orders from Lieutenant Kappe to take personal charge and help to create in
the minds of those boys’ identities which could possibly stand up before any
questioning in the
1235
told him I was interested in knowing
those names when it was necessary for me to know them. I decided to make him a Jewish
immigrant. He was to claim that he was a
citizen of the United States who had served two hitches in the National Guard,
one in Wisconsin an I think the other in Michigan, or both in Wisconsin. I decided that his name should remain Ernest
Peter Burger because to name Burger could pass as a Jewish name. He is a swarthy dark fellow with a little
extended nose who could pass as a Jew. I
had then done my part for which I was commended by the lieutenant.
“Q If any of you were to be asked where you
were born, how you came here, where you came from and how long you had been
here, what would the answer be?
“A Burger would have to say that he was born
on a day, I don’t recall the exact date, at Ausburg, Germany, the son of a
physician (I don’t recall the name to be used for his father) named Burger, of
Jewish parentage. When asked if he were
a modern or an orthodox Jew, he was to say he was a modern Jew. The difference between the classes can easily
be distinguished. The modern Jew does
not participate in their religious rites.
They are merely Jews and do not take part in religious ceremonies. I did this so that he would not have to learn
the Jewish religion. He should say he
had been in
“Q How about Quintas?
1236
“A Dick Quintas was to say he was born in
Lisbon, Portugal and came to the United States at the early age of six
years. His father left his mother in
“Q Was the story set up in such a way that it
tied in with his natural life so it could be checked on if someone wanted to
trace his life? Could it be proved?
“A The stories, especially Quintas and Henry
Kaynor as well as my own and the others, if they were to be put before a man
with ordinary sense, could be shot full of holes. I was not interested in getting anything too
thoroughly set in their minds. I was
namely interested in carrying out orders as well as possible and when we got to
America I could take the boys to the places where they were supposed to be born
and any other places so they could become acquainted with them by actually
being there and seeing everything. They
could then get the right surrounding in their minds and it would not be a
visionary story but an actual story which they could only establish upon
sight. That was the argument I gave
Lieutenant Kappe one Friday when he had us assemble in a lecture hall at the
laboratory. He sat us all down and then
cross-examined us concerning where we were born, where our fathers were born,
what schools we attended, what kind of work we had been
1237
doing, and where we were the past
week. The boys were stumped and did not
know what to do. He finally called me
down and said I had done a poor job and told me to get the boys together and go
over their stories. I told him that I
could not put an imaginary story into their heads as it could be shot full of
holes. I told him when we got here we
could get real stories. For instance,
Kaynor came to me at a loss what to do concerning his story as he had been in
the country about ten or twelve years and had never left
“The
following was dictated to Lucretia McDowell, Federal Bureau of Investigation,
in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traynor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnston,
on June 21, 1942.
“Herby
Haupt was born in
1238
He left the
“Q What about John Thomas?
“A John Thomas was an American. Where was he born? Christ sakes! It was in
“Q You don’t know any more about Thomas’s
story, other than that he was born in
“A He actually is a mechanic but worked as a
dishwasher, farm hand. The way he wrote
his story I ripped it apart and asked him if he didn’t have a bit of fantasy.
“Q What company was he going to use if asked
where he worked?
“A None at all. No company to identify him by. You have to use a form of employment where
you work in places which hardly keep records.
He worked as a farm helper, porter, dishwasher.
“Q What was he going to reply to question put
to
1239
him as to when entered the country?
“A He was born in the country, never having
left it.
“This
big fellow Neubauer, he is a Lithuanian—Nicholas. I don’t know much about him. He is a good chum of Kerling. I stayed away from them.
“Q What about the cover story of Herman
Nicholas?
“A He was born in
“Q Do you know whether he was going to say he
was employed by a particular firm?
“A I don’t know what he would say.
“Q What would he give as his occupation or
business?
“A I don’t know. I couldn’t tell you. Perhaps a cook.
“Q What is Kerling’s story to be?
“A He was born in
1240
The records were destroyed.
“Q Where has he been since he was born,
according to the story?
“A I could not tell you where he has
been. I can only repeat that I kept away
from the boy as well as I could. I spoke
to him only of organization work between the two groups, but his story that was
his business. I had enough on my mind.
“Q Was Lieutenant Kappe satisfied with
Kerling’s cover story?
“A I don’t know whether Lieutenant Kappe was
satisfied with the cover stories of Kerling’s group. I imagine he was or he would not have sent
them away.
“Q He was dissatisfied with yours?
“A I gave him that argument—that he should
give us a chance to get there and make up something real. Any steps of that kind I deemed dangerous. I had to watch my steps.
“Q With regard to the use of secret inks,
were all of the men coming over here instructed in the use of secret ink?
“A Yes, sir.
“Q Do all of the eight men know the formula
for the ink on that handkerchief?
“A They are supposed to know it but very few
of them know it. Very few were enthused
about it.
“Q How many types are there?
“A There are three different formulas. One using aspirin and something. The other—plain water script, and the other
some kind of medicine you buy—laxative.
1241
You use so many grains, add something,
and you have the works. You use a
toothpick and cotton and start writing but you could never see it. Had to write very thin. You go over next line with a certain chemical
again and it came back. You went over
with a little cotton on a stick and it appeared and disappeared a little
later. You could write on paper, silk,
cotton, or linen. When the question was
asked of the so-called Professor whether any one of the secret inks would stand
up under a chemical investigation he told us right then and there that this
would not stand up. If anyone would
happen to find it would not stand up.
All of us from that minute on walked out and said, “To Hell with it.”
“Q What did you use on your handkerchief?
“A Just one minute. On the handkerchief? We used those three different types of secret
writing—we gave each a name. What names
I don’t know at present. The
handkerchief is written with the first formula using aspirin. I can promise you that in due time I shall
get you all these formulas, either for one or from the other—part from this boy
and part from one other. I will check
until I have them all. Without any force—just
clever move.
“Q Does the writing show up red in the use of
all these formulas?
“A Red, yes, with the exception of the
ordinary water.
“Q The formula used in writing on the
handkerchief—that has to be created with another chemical?
1242
“A No.
After it was dry, ammonia. I
passed the handkerchief over a bottle of ammonia. I was just standing in the laboratory and
passed the handkerchief over a bottle and could read it right away.
1243
“Q When treated with ammonia the material
shows up red?
“A Yes, that is correct. Then it disappears again. If it is treated with ammonia it shows up
again. It shows red until it dries. You read it slowly and then it goes away
again. You have to do it slowly. Just pass it over ammonia water.
“Q Was there any recommended solution of
ammonia water?
“A I know nothing about chemicals. Just use ordinary ammonia you buy
anywhere. Ammonia would also bring out
the laxative type. There was something
about ashes. Whether you write with
ashes or get it out with ashes I don’t know.
We got this out of Quentz after we had already finished our explosive
instructions. We were no all ready to go
home and get away. That stuff was not
any good anyway.
“Q Did you have any other instructions in
secret writing?
“A No, sir.
“Q Did you get any instruction in any secret
means of communication?
“A No.
Just happened to remember. I was
given on the day of my departure from the Professor a wooden match. I had three of them. I had three in
1244
wrote the same as the others. Merely go lightly over and only after a
treatment with some chemical, the contents of which was not disclosed to
us. Then put under a violet ray,
something like that, out on a switch and it showed up. You put it in some paraphernalia. It was treated first in some chemical.
“Q This is a special prepared match?
“A I could not tell you. It was a match I was supposed to use to write
to
“Q It would not show up on paper?
“A It would only show on paper if you
scratched too much.
“Q In writing to
“A Yes.
On the back. If this is a sheet –
I write on one side and the secret writing would go on the other side
vertical. If the letter is up and down,
the secret writing would go on the back horizontal. I am glad you mentioned that.
“Q Were they giving you any other secret
methods of writing?
“A That is all. About those matches – no one else knows
outside of me and Kerling. He is the
only other fellow who knows about them. I never told any of the boys about them.
“Q Will they light?
“A They will not ignite. I asked that question myself. Only camouflage.
1245
“Q For how long a period of time would one
match write?
“A I don’t know. Also Kerling questioned how long it would
write. I was away from Kappe, the people
didn’t know me, there was a little girl there, and the Professor was half crazy
any way.
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg, Federal Bureau of
Investigation, on June 21, 1942, in the presence of Special Agents Duane L.
Traynor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnstone:
“Q George, I would like to get from you your
family history, that is the names of your mother and father and names and
location of all your brothers and sisters.
“A My father, John Dasch, was born in
Dudenhofen,
“Q List the children in order of their birth.
“A My oldest sister is Clara Dasch. In 1927 in the spring she entered the
1246
here until 1938 during which time she
was employed at the
“My
brother, Joseph Dasch, is at present serving as an enlisted man in the German
Navy. When I was on furlough in January
of this year I had the pleasure of meeting him at home. He is a married man. He lives at Ludwighafen and has no
children. He was last stationed in
1247
He rode a motorcycle. He was a messenger. He does not belong to the party.
“The
fifth child is George John Dasch. The
next child was a girl named Margaret. She
is married to a Swiss citizen by the name of Gottlieb and his last name is
Gebert. They live in
“The
next one is Johanna Nunn. She lives at
present at
“The
next child is
1248
“The
next one is Marie Dasch. She died in an
automobile accident at the age of 18. It
was while I was in
“Next
comes my brother Ernst Dasch, who lives in
“I
have furthermore two sisters married in
“I
have my sisters in
“Q Is the information written on Kerling’s
handkerchief written in secret ink, the same as yours?
“A He wrote his handkerchief in the place at
the same hour with the same ink as I did with the same material.
1249
“The
following was dictated to Ellen E.
Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special
Agents Duane L. Traynor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnstone, on June 22, 1942:
“Q Why were you familiar with the island
where you landed?
“A Because I lived there, the year I cannot
remember. I lived there with my wife
three months, maybe it might have been four months. I lived in South Hampton at Morningside Lane,
or something like that at a place where we had a furnished apartment with some
good old Swedish woman. That woman had
two sons, I remember, and one of their names was Alfred and happened to be a
little fair boy. While there I worked on
one occasion at an inn when the Long Island Chamber of Commerce had an outing
where former Governor Alfred Smith was present.
I worked at
“When
the question came up back in
1250
land, I was very much concerned about
landing in a sake place where I knew the surroundings so that I would be able
to land and get here safely, understand, because it would have been an awful
thing not to land after having gone through that. I went through it all in order to land. I had to make sure to land in a place where I
knew a little bit about the surroundings.
When I suggested my plan that I would like to land there, Lieutenant
Kappe said he would go to the Navy Intelligence and have that checked to find
out if the beach would be suitable for a good landing. Then he came back and said ‘George, the
landing place you picked out is wonderful.
It is a
“Q First you mentioned the north shore. Why the north instead of the south?
“A The south shore I hardly knew. I knew the north shore better than the south
because on the north shore I worked at Centerport,
1251
“I
was interested in landing; that is the main thing, and undoubtedly it is sound
reasoning if you land where you know exactly the surroundings, you would know
exactly what to do to get away safely. I
figured everything would be all right if I was able to land. I could get hold of the boys and then come
down here.
“Q Were they trying to land on the north
shore? On the sound?
“A No, under no consideration. I don’t think they had any maps of that
because the map I saw when I sat in the submarine with the captain showed the
south coast of land and I told them this was the spot where I wished to land, between
East Hampton and toward Watermill or between East Hampton and Amagansett,
somewhere around that beach, because we used to go swimming there.
“Q How far out were you when you got off the
boat?
“A I venture to say we were about four
hundred meters which would be equivalent to twelve hundred yards off
shore. The captain used the following
procedure which is explained to me: When we were about forty or fifty miles
away from the shore, which was on June 12 in the morning, he said he was going
to make this run regardless of the danger we might run into. It was very foggy that day. He said if a destroyer should happen to come
our way we might be run down, but he was going to take this risk and go right
on. We went on from that morning until
around eight o’clock at night,
1252
time.
We had three different time,
1253
to land. Then he told us to come up and he gave orders
for the sailors to take everything out.
Some of the sailors had a little rowboat in the water pumped up. I was the last one to get into the boat, and
I begged the captain once more to order his boys not to say anything about all
this. There were two big husky sailors
around twenty-two or twenty-three years in the rowboat. There were six of us in the boat
altogether. When we left the submarine
there was a thin rope tied on the side of the rubber boat and as we rowed on
the line was fed out of the submarine so that when the boys were finished on
land, the boat could be pulled back to the submarine.
“Another
thing I wish to relate: I venture to say it was about one hour after we had
landed that I heard a noise of motors and I told the boys that this meant only
one of two things, either there was some form of patrol boat passing out near
the shore, or it was the submarine going full speed ahead, understand. It was one of the two, I don’t know which.
“Q Tell us what you did after you got the
stuff stowed away and went to catch the train, or have you told about that?
“A Yes, everything has been told before –
which way I went and everything.
“Q George, tell us about the instructions you
received regarding contacting official German officers in this country with
regard to leaving the country or returning to
1254
along that time.
“A The question you have just put to me is
not correct, because if you ask me the following question I can answer you:
What kind of instructions did you receive from the German High Command in
regard to returning to Germany when the war has ended or when your mission has
ended? We were given the following
instructions which we had to keep under all circumstances. In case we wished to return to Germany after
the war or after we had fulfilled our mission and were then able to go into a
neutral country on the Western Hemisphere, we were forbidden to go to any
German Embassy or Consulate or to any other German official office in any place
or country of our travel to ask for help in a financial or other way by
disclosing our part of the mission. We
could tell them any kind of a story in case we needed help, financial or
otherwise, but at no time were we allowed to disclose our mission. We were held to the oath we had given not to
disclose this as long as we lived to anyone.
We were advised to proceed to the next representative of the German Army
or Navy and then state that we belonged to C-1.
That would be sufficient explanation and then action would be taken so
that we could proceed in the right channels.
This was only in case we ever wanted to go back to
1255
jail or something like that, and say
one of us would be able to leave the country and go to, say
“(Questioning
continued concerning the countersigning of the Social Security and Registration
Certificate cards.)
“Q Did you fill them in ink?
“A Yes, in ink with my own pen.
“(Mr.
Dasch was then asked to write the names of the members of his groups several
times on a separate sheet of paper just as he had written them on the
cards. Mr. Dasch did this and this slip
of paper is attached to the next page, of the original only.)”
(The
following names are written in the order given in handwritings:)
“Herby Haupt
“Herby Haupt
“Herby Haupt
1256
“John Quintas
“John Quintas
“John Quintas
“Henry Kaynor
“Henry Kaynor
“Henry Kaynor
“Henry Nicholas
“Henry Nicholas
“Henry Nicholas
“Eddy Kelly
“Edward Kelly
“Edward Kelly
“Ernest Peter
Burger
“Ernest P. Burger
“Thomas
“Thomas
“Thomas
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg, FBI, in the
presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traynor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnstone,
on June 22, 1942:
“Q George, go back to the landing. What personal equipment did you bring
ashore? When you brought ashore these
packages of explosives and duffle bag.
“A No, sir, we brought along on shore outside
the four bags of ammunition, we brought a bag of civilian clothes and two army
spades.
“Q Were your money bags and money belts,
things of that nature, in the duffle bag?
1257
“A Each man was given by me before we started
to land $419 in cash money. I also
handed over to each man his money belt containing $4,000. All of the other money was in that Gladstone
bag. That Gladstone bag with the clothes
was in that duffle bag. I entrusted onto
Peter Burger with the advice to sit still and hold onto those two belongings.
“Q There were actually your suitcases, this
duffle bag, and explosives?
“A That is correct.
“Q Were all the money bags alike?
“A Yes, all alike. As a matter of fact after the money bags were
distributed and came into my possession in L’Orient I had each boy to try it on
and had each man put his initial at the end of the money belt because belts
were made according to waistlines.
“Q Were they the initials of his alias?
“A Yes.
“Q Does each of the men so far as you know
still have his money belt?
“A I couldn’t tell you.
“Q Was it a possibility these boys would put
money in bank?
“A I have given Pete Burger the advice last
Sunday afternoon or Monday whatever it was, to try and induce Henry Kaynor and
Richard Quintas to get rid of at least $2,000 into a safe place where they are
being able after their liberation takes place that they are able to get hold of
that money so that when those
1258
fellows are able to go back to their
wives and children they would have some money.
“Q Did they do that?
“A I don’t know. I told them that on Wednesday, that was it,
not Sunday or Monday. It was the middle of
the week. This I did for the sole
purpose of seeing in the person a human being after he has been interned or
having taken his punishment for the undertaking he was sent to this country
that when the time will come that he has to go back to the wife and little
children.
1259
“Q Did you ever put any money away like that?
“A No sir.
Every cent I have with the exception of the clothes and daily life is
right with me.
“Q Did Pete Burger put any money away like
that?
“A I told Pete Burger not to worry about his
money.
That I was quite sure that he will not
be punished because I know he came to America the same reason that I and I will
be delighted to be able to bring to places that he can prove his knowledge,
that this knowledge will be used for the best purpose of fighting them.
“Q Then, none of your men pooled money
together and were going to put in possession of one fellow?
“A No sir.
I had no such idea and I did not find any practical reason for such an
idea. My idea was to keep the fellows
happy so that in due time I could get hold of them. That was part of the plan which I laid down
already months and months before which I had worked out in my mind the best
possible way.
“Q Where is your Gladstone bag?
“A I disposed of that and deposited it into
the room 1421 in the Governor Clinton Hotel after having put in that dirty bag
some of my belongings such as underwear, shirts, socks, and handkerchiefs. I had found that the bag was very filthy from
the water had hit the bag in order to keep my clothes clean I got two laundry
bags and put them in the bag and closed and looked for the chamber maid and
requested her to close the door. And I
put also two suits and two pairs of socks in that clothes
1260
closet called up the bellboy and said ‘
I am checking out on my way to
“Q Yesterday, you mentioned these three
matches you had placed in your tobacco pouch.
Was that pouch on your person when you landed?
“A Yes, because I had my share of cash money
in the sum of $419. I wish to retract
that statement, it was $409 in that bag, the reason it was only $409 was that I
gave the cook on board the ship when I said farewell to him, I gave him in a
quiet way a $10 bill and he said ‘By Christ if I had a little more courage I
would go right with you boys.’ I asked
him, ‘For what?’ He said, ‘Because I am
sick and tired of shooting other people.
I want to go out and do something constructive.’
“Q What did you have in your tobacco pouch
besides the money and matches?
“A I had in the tobacco pouch before the
money always to carry the three matches and handkerchief. I put the handkerchief into my coat pocket on
the outside. Just so it would appear to
be a dress handkerchief. But I had a
pencil with a clip and held that handkerchief.
That pencil I have lost. Also my
little notebook which was in there. It
must be laying there on that beach somewheres.
The pouch looks like a small leather tobacco pouch I had bought in
1261
those three matches had no value
whatsoever because I had no intention to use them. Even in
“Q They were given to you in
“A Yes, in
“Q Do you recall when it was you took the
money $409 out of the tobacco pouch?
“A Yes, what that sailor or Coast Guard man
approached me and I could not see ant way clear to get rid of the boy and see a
safe landing which gave me the assurance to go to Washington without having
been caught and then have to tell my story which would have put me in an
unhealthful spot. I had to find a way
although I was instructed by the Captain that in case I should come across an
interference I should attack the interference and put it on the boat with the
sailors and they would take it out to the submarine and they would then dispose
of it in their own way. When that sailor
approached me that came right into my mind ‘I can’t do that.” I didn’t want to live under such
circumstances. For a moment a thousand
ideas went into my mind. There I said
‘Boy, you have got to take graft. I said
to him, ‘I know we did something unlawful.
We disobeyed the law, but undoubtedly it can be straightened out and you
will forget it if I
1262
take care of you.’ He said ‘no, and I can’t do that.’ I told him ‘Boy, you wish to live don’t
you? You have a father and mother home. You have done your duty. I now tell you will do your duty by accepting
this money I am going to give you and you will hear from me in
“Q Did he turn the flashlight on and count
the money himself or did you count it?
“A I gave him the money under the little
light and then I gave him more to make up the $300. But I asked him what he intended to do with
it.
“Q Did he count that $220 for you?
“A I merely asked him how much money I gave
him.
“Q What were the denominations?
“A Three or four fifty-dollar bills, some $20
1263
bills and $10 bills. When I gave him the money first and I soon he
would take it I went quickly to my pocket and got the pouch and gave him the
big bills and figured that was two or three hundred dollars. Then I seen that he stood there yet and was
kind of worried himself and I was not quite sure I was successful that I had
bribed the poor kid and told him to put the flashlight on the money.
“Q By moneybag you mean tobacco pouch?
“A Yes.
“Q Do you recall that you took the rest of
your money out of the tobacco pouch?
“A No, sir.
At this time after the boy walked toward the station, I rushed right out
on the beach and there I seen the boys in correction in an uproar and trying to
locate their clothes and put them on. We
were all wet. They had taken off their
shoes. So I said to the boys ‘Now never
mind about dressing, it takes years to dress bums.’ And I went in the east
inward direction from the place we just about landed until we reached a gully
right in the sand dunes and there I said ‘Lets get going.’ And I started
going. And I said ‘Dig, let’s get that
evidence right down here.’
“Q Did you have your money pouch or tobacco
pouch in your pocket at that time?
“A I couldn’t tell you. I think I had it.
“Q Where did you get the money to buy the
tickets, the railroad tickets I mean?
1264
“A Out of the $109 left.
“Q Did you take that out of the tobacco
pouch?
“A. No
sir. I had the money in a roll so when I
went and bought the tickets, in fact I bought four tickets to
“Q You didn’t take this money to pay for your
tickets out of your tobacco pouch?
“A I am quite certain I did not have that
tobacco pouch.
“Q Which pocket fit you carry it in?
“A The left pocket of my old pants. All the evidence which I wanted to bring here
was mostly that handkerchief. On that I
held all my mind and when I finally got to the station and I realized that I
had left it on the beach the following things namely: I think a package of
German cigarettes, a bottle of German whiskey, my note book and my pencil. I didn’t tell anything to the boys of the
things I had in the notebook. But I said
right away ‘I have lost the address over which I knew I could get in contact
with my little wife.’
“Q Was this bottle of whiskey and other
material also in the duffle bag?
“A No, I think the bottle was one of the
boy’s without me knowing it. The same
way with the cigarettes I believe it was Henry Kaynor who took that lousy
bottle on shore for he loves his whiskey.
And I gave him hell. I wanted to
get rid of all evidence and I wanted to be allowed to come here and tell my
story.
1265
“The following was dictated by George John
Dasch to Donald Oden, FBI, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Frank Johnston,
and N. D. Wills, Special Agents, on June 22, 1942:
“Q (By
“A Exactly the $300.
“Q You are absolutely positive?
“A. Yes,
I counted it in front of the little light and I gave him $300, and to my way of
reasoning I knew that I had helped in that very action I made undoubtedly a
good loyal son of a good father and mother and made a criminal out of him, and
I shall do everything in my power, even at the expense of additional
punishment, to clarify this boy because I think to my way of representation and
the way I approach him he believed that I am an official in Washington. I had him buffaloed, in other words. But still for a moment I said to
myself--. ‘You take orders from
“Q (By Traynor) George, after you landed and
buried this material, did you change your clothes at that time?
1266
“A Not yet, I was the very last man to change
clothes. After I have buried the four
boxes, I said, ‘Now where are my clothes please?’ And in the dark night and fog the way it was
we went to the bag and there were none of my clothes. I think merely my shoes and one or two
socks. When I came to the station I had
two different pair of socks on. But my
jacket was left behind on the bench, and I said to the two boys, ‘You dumb
fools. Now you remain here and dig in
that bag.’ I took of my dungarees – I
think I took the dungarees off right there.
Wait a minute, I didn’t do that.
I asked this fellow Dick Quintas to follow me exactly and show me
whereabouts they exchanged their clothes, because I hadn’t been with them. I had gone back down to the beach to help the
sailor boys get the water out of their boat and see that they got going
again. And then I had the incident with
this other fellow. All during that time
the boys undressed. Finally when I came
together with them again, I see they were still trying to undress. I said, ‘Come on, let’s get going.’ And then they left my belongings behind and I
went back with Dick Quintas and finally found the clothes I took them back and
undressed.
“Q Where did you take them back to?
“A Right to the place I told the boys to
stay, next to the place where we buried the four boxes. When I get back there I’ll show you
everything. I will find the boxed
somewhere around not deep in
1267
the sand and all the other things. Then perhaps when I’m there, things will come
back better into my mind.
“Q What clothes did you put on?
“A. I had
a pair of slacks, Scotch tweeds.
“Q Where were they made?
“A I bought them in Maceys and Company for
the purpose of having something to wear to play golf in. So was my little jacket.
“Q What does the jacket look like?
“A The jacket was a brown jacket I bought at
Howard Brothers I think, cheap stuff.
“Q Did it have sleeves in it?
“A Yes it had sleeves. I also had a little sweater with a
zipper. There was a little pocket in it
up high with a zipper. In that pocket I
had the handkerchief so that I could not lose it.
“Q Did you have any other clothes besides the
pants and sweater?
“A I had a tie. Whether I put that on, I couldn’t tell
you. And I had a slouch hat on all of us
had swimming pants on underneath. I put
on my clothes. I had my money belt and
my underwear on – American underwear, also the swimming pants. Those swimming pants I took off my body
nearby the station in the early morning around five o’clock in Amagansett. I put those pants right near by the station
and threw them in the bushes. Because I
was soaked through and through and shivering – you can imagines. I said to them, ‘Well we got this far. Let’s
1268
go to
“Q When you landed, what did you have on?
“A I had an undershirt, a little pair of
white drawers, the money belt, my sweater, the little American sweater, red
sweater with sleeves, woolen sweater with zipper, and, oh yeah, a pair of beach
sandals, a pair of white socks, and my slouch hat on, and those dungarees.
“Q What about the swimming trunks?
“A And the swimming trunks underneath.
“Q Underneath your trunks?
“A Yes.
Hold it! I didn’t have any trunks
on. I didn’t have any trunks but
undershirt I had on. And I had my
undershirt rolled up underneath the money belt, figuring that I might have to
go into the water up to my hips on the landing.
As a matter of fact we were soaking wet while we were still on the
boat. I had a long oar in my hands. I sat in the back and when we touched bottom,
I said ‘Now, boys, once more!’
“Q When you landed you had on a pair of
swimming trunks?
“A That is right.
“Q An undershirt?
“A Right.
“Q White socks and tennis shoes?
“A. Right.
“Q What color?
1269
“A They are all white. No, they were a grayish color. They were made out of duck and rubber
soles. I bought those shoes in
“Q Did you have shirt on?
“A No shirt.
“Q You had a pair of dungarees?
“A Yes, pants and a little French jacket or
whatever it was which the Captain gave me.
The one with the buttons I received in
“Q Were the other boys dressed similarly?
“A Exactly what they had underneath, I
couldn’t tell you because I expected them to be smart enough to wear --- I
don’t worry about that. After all, they
are men. They should know what they
need. I figured this landing might be a
wet party and I gave them instructions.
I couldn’t supervise the whole thing.
“Q When you landed did you take off any of
your clothes?
“A No, sir, I was the last man to get out of
the boat.
“Q When you were talking with the Coast Guard
man?
1270
“A No sir, I had the slouch hat on, the
little tennis shoes, and those green, gray dungarees, the pants separate, and
the coat, I had that on.
“Q You didn’t have a jacket on at that time?
“A. You
mean the sweater? I had that on
underneath.
“Q You talked about a jacket.
“A. What
jacket?
“Q The jacket the Captain gave you.
“A That is the little French coat I
think. It looked like a coat a mechanic
would wear – long sleeves and a belt around it and buttons. Not military buttons.
“Q What was it made out of?
“A. Out
of that green, gray – the same thing as the dungarees, you know, cotton. They are something out there. You can see the whole works.
“Q Now then, you buried the explosives and
then you went back up the ridge some place and changed into clothes?
“A I wanted to change into clothes, but I
found out that they had left some of my clothes on the ridge. So I went back with Dick Quintas to feel my
way along and found them and came back and changed my clothes. After I had my clothes taken off, and I think
also the wet socks and those little shoes, I said, ‘Now put these in the bag
and bury the bag.’
“Q You still had on your swimming trunks?
“A That is right.
“Q Your undershirt?
“A Right.
1271
“Q Your money belt?
“A Yes, and my sweater.
“Q How about the jacket the Captain gave you?
“A That I put in the bag.
“Q What else did you put on over the
material?
“A Then I put on my shoes, two socks, my
shoes, American shoes, brown shoes bought from Regal sometime ago, and my
slacks, Scotch tweeds, and my brown jacket, a shirt, it was a sport shirt. I have got the shirt home yet. I had the shirt washed. I have still got it. I took it to the laundry. Because I wanted, in case I am stopped with
that bag, I wanted to have something in that bag in order to say, ‘Well, I have
been fishing,’ or whatever it is. I
didn’t want to be stopped by any officer of the law under any
consideration. See? I had also in my mind when we were sitting
there on that railroad station waiting for a train. The station was not opened and I could not
locate a timetable and nobody came near the station already it was near six
o’clock. So I told the boys, ‘Maybe the
train was not running as far down as
1272
sake of security not only of my life,
that I can keep on working, but also for the sake of the security of lives of
my brother and sister and mother.
“(Traynor
left the room at this point)
“How
could I possibly do the next step correctly so that I can come to
“Q (by
“A He said five or six words once, one
sentence he said, in which I see the whole other part of this boy. Namely, in Quentz on the first Saturday we
were in Quentz at the school, after I had known him four days. When we walked over to the restaurant, he
said, ‘Those dirty bastards certainly beat me up bad and I like to ---.’ ‘Keep your trap shut, ‘I said. I didn’t even let him finish that
sentence. I said Pete, do me one favor. The time will come and the place will come
when I shall ask you to reopen what you just
1273
had on your mind. Now don’t say nothing.’ I reasoned at that time, any boy who spent 17
months in a concentration camp and was given a chance to participate in this
undertaking for the purpose of making good again, that boy had only one chance
and choice, either to take part in it or you die. Understand?
It doesn’t take very much reasoning to come to that conclusion.
“Q What day did he open up and tell you all
about himself?
“A That was Sunday, last Sunday.
“Q The day after you landed?
“A You put that question wrong. You ask me what day did he open up- that you
two agreed to turn it in. He had at no
time over told me his story or his desire to turn it in. That far I have never gotten with him. I had no desire to.
“Q Does he know you are down here?
“A Why certainly. Which way I wanted to get even, in which way
he wanted to participate in his way, I don’t know. The fact that I established last Sunday – I
proved to myself last Sunday what I heard him say in one sentence. That he is the boy who came here to this
country not for the purpose of following his mission, but to get away from
them, to fight them in his own way. What
plan he worked out in his mind I do not know.
But when after I had disclosed my plan, ‘Boy, I know you are taking a
great risk, might not be believed, might have a hard time proving what you
say.
1274
You are sincere. But boy, go right to it, because we are not
afraid to die. I was confronted with
that many a time. But we want to live to
work together and I know this kid, Christ sakes. He has so much above me in knowing the
inside, the actually inside dirty story of Nazi clique, that I said to
him. ‘Kid you are a godsend. God brought us together. We are going to make a team. What you know I will try in my way to bring
over back to them. Something the whole
people don’t know. And if we cannot help
them open their eyes and help create a revolt, than nothing will help them. Because it is quite certain that this war is
being fought with all kinds of weapons—infiltration is a strong weapon Hitler
has used, and if this side does not use it to the best of ability in every inch
of material, then I merely call them damned fools.
1275
“Because
if lives are saved and this war is finished sooner with this weapon, then I
think, and I may be able to partake in it, then I think, ‘Boy, you have at
least done something in your life.’ Try
and follow me. This is not an idea
merely three weeks old. This is an idea
that is eight months old – eight long months, built up and made stronger. I got all the evidence every day and it
became stronger because I saw every day in my life I looked and observed and
studied to find reasons, definite proof, that the bastards had to be fought,
and be sure about it. I had to take my
life many times out of my hands. By
going in there in
“First
on a Thursday, May 5, Monday was the 11th, I had to go back to
Berlin—on Saturday the 9th and on the day before, Friday the 8th
of May it was, with a person who has a shoe factory where he employs over 600
people. I listened to his side of the
story and I found sufficient evidence out of the explanation the man has
entrusted upon me, after which I was introduced to Walter Merdian, whom I have
known in this country from 1929 and 1930, that this group of people, that as a
money man, as a factory owner, he was just as dissatisfied and disgusted with
the Hitler Party and the whole war and everything else. And the following night I happened to go to
Dudenhofen, the town right close by my home town,
1276
Spayer on the
Until such a time has come, and that
can only come by suffering, will you be ripe to become peaceful people in this
world.’ They expressed to me their way of reasoning which was contrary to my
way, but fundamentally they knew something had to be done. I left that place at four ‘clock in the
morning, satisfied at having found out additional evidence, but scared to hell
that those people at the very end would turn me in to Gestapo. At any moment I might be grabbed. As my mother said, ‘You cannot trust anyone
here in this
1277
all scared of each other. My son, I cannot sleep for nights because I
am scared of you and your foolish talk.
“(At
this point
“Q There are a few little things I want to
get from you today. The first thing,
your story of the landing in detail; exactly where you were, what kind of
clothes each of the boys has on when they left the landing, where these clothes
were made, the exact routes you took, where you went into Amagansett and then
into Jamaica, and the exact spot in Jamaica you disposed of the clothes?
“A All right.
In the respect I can only repeat again what to my remembrance I have
already stated the first day I was here.
To the best of my recollection, I stated the exact route we took, the
way of our landing, and the exact steps.
Everything was gone over with the exception of what kind of clothes the
others wore. That is a new question. This I am ready at this time to answer to the
best of my recollection. Henry Kaynor
had on an American suit, grayish stripes.
“Q Wait a minute, is that after you had
buried--?
“A That is right.
“Q Go ahead.
“A Henry Kaynor had a gray striped suit and a
gray slouch hat on, felt hat.
“Q Can you give us anything further on Henry
Kaynor?
That is more detail?
“A
I couldn’t tell you.
“Q He had a shirt and tie?
“A I couldn’t tell you that either. They had silk
1278
American
ties, American clothes, but exactly what color I couldn’t tell you. But the suit I know; it was a gray striped
suit. This fellow Dick Quintas had a
brown gabardine suit with a dark brown shirt and a red tie and no hat. Little Pete Burger had also a little gray
suit, gray checkered, on. He has got
that suit still hanging when I left the hotel room. When I put my clothes from Room 1424 to 1421,
I noticed that suit still hanging in the closet.
“Q You got anything further on Pete Burger?
“A Pete Burger also had a pair of black shoes
on, because I gave those shoes to my myself.
They were my shoes, American shoes, cheap shoes, black shoes.
“Q No hat either?
“A I don’t know what kind of tie he had
on. No hat though. I know that.
“Q George, what was the source of all these
clothes? Did they belong to these men or
were they given to them?
“A All right.
Little Pete Burger had been in
1279
I give shirts and underwear away. Whether those boys had that on the day of
landing, I do not know, with the exception that little Pete Burger had the
shoes on, the black shoes I gave him. My
shoes and also Pete Burger’s shows were wrapped at the Regel Shoe Store in
“Q Now, George, from the time you left the
boxes where you buried them on the beach until you boarded the train at
Amagansett Station, did the four of you dispose of anything else, clothing or
any other packages?
“A Wait a minute. I disposed of the little swimming pants and
also of my – I remember now – also my tennis shoes, in the hedge which faces
the bench of the station in Amagansett.
I put it right in the hedge.
1280
“Q The shoes and the trunks?
“A Yes.”—
The President. We will pause now and take a recess of about
ten minutes.
(At
3:15 p.m. an informal recess was taken, at the conclusion of which the
following occurred:)
The President. The Commission is open.
(The
reading of the statement of George John Dasch was resumed as follows:)
“Q Could you describe those trunks a little
further as to color and texture?
“A A blue pain of flannel pants with white
stripes and a belt.
“Q What color is the belt?
“A White belt with one of those question mark
hooks.
“Q Was it a web belt?
“A Yes, I think it was.
“Q Those are the only things you disposed of
before you got on the train?
“A That is right.
“Q To your knowledge did any of the other
boys dispose of anything?
“A No.
The other boys had nothing to carry whatsoever. I put some of the wet belongings, whatever I
find, in the bag to carry along and when I got to the station early in the
morning, we sat there and then I opened the bag and through some of the wet
stuff out. Maybe even a shirt.
“Q What bag?
1281
“A. A
Gladstone bag I carried. I would get
tired of carrying it and I would say to one of the boys, ‘You carry it for
awhile.’
“Q We are trying to get what you threw
away. You didn’t throw anything else
away?
“A No, no.
If I did, I just can’t remember.
“Q What time did you get into
“A. Nine
o’clock or a minute or so after.
“Q Could you give us a pretty accurate
description of everything you did in
“A I have told the boys in Amagansett when we
took this train at 6:57 out of Amagansett that when we reach
1282
where the nearest tailor was. So I found a tailor opposite on the side
street and he told me he is too busy. He
could not do it. I went right next door
and bought myself a pair of other pants for $1.69 and I put them tight on in
the little cubby hole. The other pants I
had bought previously, I went back to the locker, opened my trunk, and put them
in. Then I went from there to the Regal
Shoe Store on
“After we had bought a new pair of
shoes and socks at the Regal Shoe Store in
“Q (By
“A The shoe shine place was right
opposite. When went came out of the shoe
store the two boys were right opposite on the side – not on the main avenue but
on the side street in the first block. I
had the shoes shined mostly while looking for a chance to get rid of the old
ones. I figured I might as well get rid
of the shoes.
1283
“Q Was a regular shoe shine place or did the
kids just have boxes?
“A Two little kids with a box, a white boy
and a nigger boy, and I gave them the package.
Then we went to the haberdasher store.
I bought a shirt, underwear, and a tie, and three handkerchiefs. From there I went right close by to the
Howard Clothes Store, went in, and selected a brown gabardine suit. My friend Burger selected a gray flannel
suit, and we had those clothes – what you call it – altered. While waiting for them, we changed our underwear
and shirts and put the new ones we had bought on. There I also discarded – there is another
incident – before I went into this Howards Clothes Stores, I went into the
washroom of Bickford’s Lunchroom and washed up downstairs and discarded that
red sweater. It had got too hot. I left it in the washroom. I washed, took it off, and put it right
behind the doorknob and walked out clean.
We still didn’t have anything to eat.
“Q Where did you eat?
“A Where did we eat? Oh, yes, I had made the first arrangements
with the boys at three o’clock that day.
It was Saturday. We arranged the
first date on
“Q Was that the
1284
“A. No,
the Long Island directly into
“Q You had the extra pair of pants?
“A That one both of those pair of pants I put
in the suit case.
“The
following was dictated to Lucretia McDowell Federal Bureau of Investigation, in
the presence of Special Agents N.D Wills and Frank Johnstone on June 22, 1942.
“We
had our old clothes in a box. I went
from the Pennsylvania Station over to a hotel on
1285
‘Would you mind coming along. We go in this Macy and Company store and that
is where we buy our clothes.’ We went
back and bought something to eat at the Horn and Hardart restaurant. We got two kinds of salad. The first thing I wish to eat when I get to
1286
station, still stands and that place of
meeting was the Grant Tomb at 6:00 o’clock the second day after landing and the
third day of landing. I told them that
still stands. In case any one of us
could not be at the restaurant. The boys
left Pete Burger and myself and we went into Macy and Company’s where we bought
shirts, underwear, handkerchiefs, ties, and I bought a suit – a suit and two
pair of pants. Then we went to the
luggage department and bought three suitcases.
Everything we had bought in the different departments we put in those
suitcases. My belongings into my
suitcase and his in his. He bought one
suitcase. I bought a big one and a small
one. I also bought a wristwatch – Lord
Elgin. With that we went back to the
hotel. We had dinner downstairs in the
hotel restaurant where we drank a bottle of wine and had some rare steaks. We went back to our room thereafter and then
we walked a bit. I showed them
Broadway. Where I went exactly – to
trace my steps after that night – I could not tell but I know we were both
anxious to get back to the hotel and leave.
All other things which follows then I have already briefly stated to the
best of my recollection.
“Q Let’s go back to
“A Shoes, ripped pants, sweater, and hat.
“Q Tell us where each was disposed of.
“A My shoes to the little Negro boy shining
my shoes. My pants I left in a store
where I bought a cheap pair of pants. My
hat I threw on top of the battery of lickers in the
1287
of in Bickford’s restaurant downstairs
in the washroom. All other things I
still have – shirt and tie. Whether I
even had a tie on I don’t know. I had on
a sport shirt.
“Q What did Pete dispose of in
“A I know definitely the shoes, and I believe
that all he disposed of because he went in the hotel with the dark square-
checkered suit. No, I don’t know. That suit he took off and put in the
suitcase. I had a gray suit. I don’t know whether he disposed of
anything. His hat he didn’t have. Whether he disposed of anything else I could
not swear to it.
“Q Did Henry and Richart tell you what they
got in
“A No.
Where they bought their goods and how they bought and what they did with
their belongings I do not know. I did
not ask. What for? I had no reasons and if I had reasons that
would be an awful thing. Why should I
ask such questions? They should have
never at any time known my real intentions.
“Q Were you ever in their lodgings after you
got to
“A I only know on Sunday night that they
checked either in the McNamara (?) or the Almanac (?). A hotel I know is on
1288
leader.
Whatever you do we follow.’ All
the angles in the business of knowing the exact whereabouts if those two boys
and the business of keeping them happy and contented so that they should at no
time ever be suspicious of what my intentions were left up to this boy
Burger. I had a much bigger job
now. How can I possibly connect the
right place here in
1289
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Ellen E. Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in
the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traylor, N.D. Willis and Frank Johnstone on June 22, 1942:
“Q I think it might be well to go into more
detail on how they acquainted you with Seibold case.
“A. In February
when I was officially assigned or became officially connected with the German
High Command, I was asked to prepare all the groundwork for this
undertaking. I in turn asked them to
supply me with all possible records of success or failure of similar
undertakings so I could study the ways and methods of this kind of
undertaking. I argued that I was not a
professional saboteur so would need to know what methods to use. I was furnished two files, all of them
covering the Seibold matter. I concluded
after having established what it was all about that a man came over here to
this country after having been hired by German High Command to establish a
radio communications station which he in turn turned over to the FBI and was
hired by them to work there, making the Germans believe that he was still loyal
to the undertaking, and the finally he turned yellow. All those reports were in there. How they exactly read I do not recollect. I gathered from the reports that this man had
done what I was planning to do. I found
myself in a very ticklish situation. I
asked myself why they entrusted those reports to me. On top of every report there was marked
1290
with a red stamp the word ‘Geheim,’
meaning in English ‘Secret.’ I thought
it advisable not to mention the case of Seibold, but after a couple of days or
a day or two, Lieutenant Kappe came to Der Kaukakus where the files were all
located. They were locked away in a
desk, the key of which I always hung behind a mirror. He asked me if I had read the case of Seibold
and I told him I had. He asked me what I
thought of it. I said the guy must have
been a dirty so-and-so. I asked if he
was still alive, and he said he supposed so but they had men trailing and
gunning for him until they got him. He
said that no matter where he went they would get him. I naturally took the first opportunity to
change the subject. The records were of
sabotage done by foreign agents or by alien workers in Germany and in the upper
countries for the months of October, November and December, and the other file
consisted of records of sabotage acts in January, February and March. The second file came into my hands some time
between the first and third of March.
Each set of sabotage was explained thoroughly as to how it was done,
what they attacked, whether the men were caught, and what happened to the
subjects. The sabotage acts were files
by separate countries such as Occupied France, Occupied Belgium,
1291
[3b]
together.
“Q In those records were there any cases of
acts of sabotage committed in the
“A Two or three other files came into my
hands. These were reports from radio
stations and other agencies of communication of the German Government such as
even my own place of employment, the Foreign Office or Department R. Those contained messages and newspaper
clippings in regard to sabotage cases or fires or explosion in factories. They were marked on top with the remark, ‘To
the attention of Department C-2.’ There
was generally a note attached to this from the officer of the respective
department from which the copy originated, and it was signed by one of the
officials. These would be reports that
somewhere in
“Q Was this a book you saw in Intelligence-2?
“A No, they were all files. It was all in a file.
“Q Was there anything in these files
indicating that these were acts of sabotage committed by German agents?
“A. No there was never anything definitely stated
that it was done by any one of the agents, but I read a number of articles or
rather copies of mimeographed reports of agents in the United States, others in
Mexico, and some from Guatemala, in regard to observations they made of all
work in regard to sabotage. There was no
1292
definite proof that any of these agents
directly committed the sabotage.
“Q Were any of the agents mentioned by name
in the files?
“A Every agent has only a V. name. V. is the same as vertrauenman which means a
man who is given confidence or a confidence man. I am a V. man. Any time I was in possession of any copies of
work or files, I had to countersign for them.
I also had to sign ‘V. Strich’ whenever I received any money. That is the way every man had his name in
that file. Nobody is supposed to know in
that Department the real name of the V. man with the exception perhaps of the
Personnel Registrar.
“Q In this record of explosions, fires and
things of that nature happening in the
“A They were all filed in one place but
according to the date.
“Q Did you run across anything at all outside
of this particular file to indicate that they were committing acts of sabotage
in the
“A I did at no time come across any files
which definitely proved by facts or figures or written evidence which would
give me the definite proof that there were such man, but I said to myself that
there must have been some over there.
That was my own opinion, understand?
1293
“Q You did not think you were the first
sabotage man?
“A. Yes. I know as a matter of fact we were the first
ones to receive that instruction to go there and commit acts of military
sabotage. I know that as a fact because
we were already designated as the first ones under the names of Franz Daniel
Posterious, the very first German who lead a group of Mennonites into this
country. Lieutenant Kappe gave us the
story at the farewell party. I asked him
why he designated our group by that name and then he related the history of the
immigration of the Germans into the
“Q You said a while back that you were given
a file or you asked for a file showing the success or failure of similar
undertakings.
“A That is right.
“Q Were those dealings entirely with
undertakings in the
“A All over.
In
1294
The occupation and capture was
completed by the man who came afterwards.
“Q Would you say in these files that you came
across any cases which had been successful in the
“A No.
You mean cases carried out by a company of V. men? There was no such reports. I was all by myself in that office for three
or four weeks studying that file. The
only ones who came to see me were Kappe and young Bart.
“Q Do you think that if there had been any
cases of successfully carrying out missions of any kind in the
“A. I
asked myself as I sat there reading those files why they kept them. I wondered if they were to be kept for the
purpose of having a control or check on what to be kept for the purpose of
having a control or check on what the Agents were going. If that were true, then the definite work or
accomplishment of each agent should be in the file. I looked but could find nothing. The file consisted merely of press and radio
reports and information which went through us.
There were a lot of photostatic maps of roads and the water reservoirs
are, the entire water supply system.
There was three or four duplicates of each photograph. They had maps tracing the water supply system
back to the first lake or place where the water came from. There was an additional group of pictures
showing the Soarsdale
1295
railed station where there was a cross
marked on the siding a few feet to the right, and the Bronx River Road near the
Soarsdale station where a cross was also marked and below it was written in
white ink that there was supposed to be a main water pipe located beneath a man
hole there.
“Q Then the reports that you saw on the
Seibold case were press reports and have releases, or were they private reports
made by German Government officials?
“A As I recollected it, the Seibold matter
consisted of reports from the V. men and agents. They were personal reports in regard to
Seibold after he had sprung the thing.
“Q Were there any names of the V. man in
those reports?
“A No, never in your life. Gentlemen, at that time the file was a hot
potato I had in my hand. I merely looked
through it to see if I could find something which I could use. I wanted to learn something from him as he
had been successful in his plan. This
was in February going on March. I had
been in that office from the first of February until the 15th of
March.
“Q Did you have any other examples of
failures shown to you?
“A I cannot recall anything. There might have been other things in regard
to failure, but they had been in other countries. I was not interested only in the
“Q George, I want to take up next the information
1296
about this sabotage school you
attended, and I want it in some kind of an outline form, starting first with
the location of the school and a description of facilitation.
“A I can do that. I have it in my mind. It was called Ausbildungsiager Quentz. Ausbildungsiager means nothing else but a
training camp located at Quantz – nothing else.
The place was located on the Quentz lake about two miles away from
Mitteideutache Stahiverin (Middle German Steel Works) at
1297
lecture rooms. Behind the gymnasium on the other side of the
fence began the proving ground where we had an explosive pit which was
reinforced so we could use high explosives.
Outside of that were a number of other places where incendiaries could be
used. Next to that was a long rifle
range. There was a little lake on the
estate which was in addition to Quentz lake.
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Foss, FBI, in the
presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traylor, N.D. Willis, and Frank Johnstone,
June 22, 1942:
“Q George, in connection with this school, I
would like to get the names of the instructors that were there, etc.
“A Would you like me first to describe the
laboratory? The main building consisted
of a front office, a kitchen, two dining rooms, a bigger room, and a third room
which is the reading room, and next to it on the main floor were a number, I
think, six rooms of which the last ones two of them could house four men. The others were all single. I was in a single room. Kappe, Kelly, and myself had single
rooms. Upstairs were also a number of
small rooms where the other officers and the instructors lived. I had never been upstairs. The laboratory next to the garage had
downstairs shower room and toilet and upstairs it was divided into two
sections. On the left side a small
lecture room with benches for about twenty men.
The laboratory which was right opposite was a fully equipped laboratory
with all the
1298
chemicals and equipment, scales from
the ordinary kitchen scales to the finest scale. The fact that I have never been in the
laboratory before, to me it was a deep impression. Everything was there. Even electrical batteries in one closet. One man outside of the instructors was one laboratory
technician. He was right there. For every instruction we had he had
everything already finished. Now let’s
go to the instructors. The whole Quantz
school, the property. Signs were posted
all around as well as the main entrance ‘Keep out under the severe punishment
of the law.’ The manager of the school
was a civilian. I got close to him and
he told me that he is a soldier, in the rank of First Sergeant. They had tree big dogs there and at night
they let them lose. Three German
dogs. This fellow, this manger patrolled
the whole thing every night with a sawed-off machine gun. The instructors were two, one Dr. Koenig and
one Dr. Schuls. Dr. Koenig was a
theorist. He was an instructor in the
theory of all about what we had to learn.
He was to tell us the foundation of it.
To what relation it would be with the others. Why it ignited and why it burned. Dr. Schuls in the afternoon told is how to
put it together. Hen we went to the
laboratory and had to do it ourselves.
Always one group apart. Group #1
and Group #2. To each group, two men of
the other four officers, the German officers, which were in the school at the
same time, took part. They were all
dressed as doctors. Two were very high
Naval
1299
officers and two were non-commissioned
officers. The Naval officers came from
Norwich (?) and others from
“Q The hours of the schooling, what were
they?
“A We got up at 7 o’clock in the morning, had
first calisthenics until 7:30, had to make up our bunks and that was until 8,
and 8 o’clock breakfast. At 9 until 12
we had school, then we had lunch until 1 o’clock. The reading period until 2 o’clock and then
from two until 4 we had school. Then at
4 o’clock every afternoon we had sport until 5:30 and sports consisted of
soccer, hand grenades, boxing instruction, discs, wrestling. Everything in the gymnasium.
“Q That was supervised?
“A All those were supervised by Dr. Schulz.
He also was the instructor when we had pistol shooting. That was once in a while. I shot altogether, each man shot about four
different times and each time around 7 bullets.
That made 28 bullets.
“Q After 5:30 what happened?
“A We had dinner at 6 o’clock and then we had
our own rest period and that rest period the leaders had to get together with
their gang and speak over what they had learned during the day and that is the
time I used to be alone. I was never
around from Monday to Friday. Henry
Kaynor and Dick Quintas and myself played Pinocchio.
“Q There was no instruction after 5:30?
1300
“A No more.
“Q How many days a week?
“A School instruction was Monday, Tuesday,
Wednesday and Thursday. Then we left and
went back to
1301
The school ran from the 15th
to the 30th. We went from
Monday to Thursday. It was
finished. Because the following Friday
morning I was home. I left
“Q Did you take notes?
“A We were supposed to take everything in
memory. We took notes and then before we
left school we had one more examination from an old Colonel Lieutenant who,
according to the statement of Mr. no I mean Dr.
Schulz is the greatest brain of all this sabotage stuff. He made general review on Thursday morning
before we left and told us in his own words ‘Never in the history since the
school had been started had I had a bunch that were so eager.’ Also in Thursday morning, we were also told
what we would take along. When we come
back from our vacation everything would be shown to us.
“Q Did you get any impression while you were
there as to how long the school had been operating and how many graduates?
“A When I got in the school I looked around a
little bit. I seen they had a lot of
uniforms. Which we also had to
wear. Uniforms from Polish or Czech. Army, dyed blue, but I seen there in the
reading room while looking for something to read I seen, no I found the reading
materials printed in a language which I judge to be Indian or Arabian so I took
it for granted. In regards to that I
said tone of the women on the day that we left I said that the women did a good
job and gave us good food and I collected ten bucks
apiece
1302
from each of the tem men. The other two original members, Bookky and
Kuber, had left. I am quite fortunate
that the German High Command would never let a man go that far as to see what
was going on and finally let this man go out again. It is just sorry for this poor fellow, that
they came there. She thanked us for the
money. I have told her ‘were all the
other foreign speaking fellows also so kind to you?’ She said, ‘No, they all gave us something but
not like you fellows.’ I asked the woman
what kind of language they speak. She
said ‘I am sorry but they speak very little German. Maybe I am wrong.
“Q In
the instructions at the school, George, what explosives were you taught to use?
“A Dynamite.
I don’t know whether you call it dynamite or not. The exact formula I don’t remember, but it
works.
“Q Were you taught to use more than one type
of explosive?
“A Yes.
I don’t know whether this … whether there is a different type of
dynamite but we were taught three different formulas with which we could make
dynamite. Three different types and the
same way this was also for the incendiaries.
And also they showed us a number of ways to make that potassium chloride
and sugar, or what you call it. That mixture
I think it is three parts of potassium chloride and 1 part of sugar. I can get them all. Just let me work. Aluminum powder now, how much other stuff I
cannot tell you no more. I
1303
have it all marked down even the
devices, how the watch had connected and all the other ways. I had it all sketched in the little book and
I took it home with me and kept it underneath the bed. Took it home with me and to
“Q Will you describe for us what each type of
dynamite, explosive looked like?
“A It was a mixture.
“Q We
have in this country dynamite which comes in sticks, blocks, etc.
“A I was the leader George John Dasch, sat
right in front and this non-commissioned officer from the Army and I said ‘By
Christ I need help.’ Dr. Koenig and Dr.
Schulz. I was sweating. I said to myself, ‘I have difficulty in
learning them because they have chemicals and I know nothing about
chemicals.’ Even that fellow Kelly used
to say ‘Do you know your formulas?’ If I
like something I learned it, if I don’t like it I don’t learn it. I have no desire to use that. So I didn’t learn it good. If I had known you boys were going to ask me
all these questions about
1304
it I would have learned it all good, so
I could tell it to you.
“Q You must have used that at the school?
“A We had three different kinds of
incendiaries. Those we used aluminum
powder looked like aluminum. It looked
white. For instance we used that, what
you call it again, potassium chloride of soda or saltpeter. And then one other you couldn’t use it in
water. I don’t know. I can get it alright somewhere back in
“Q Why couldn’t you use it in water?
“A It will not take. We made for instance one incendiary where we
mixed sawdust with potassium after it is ground. Only that is in dynamite. It burns and you wet that sawdust and it
dries again and after that you can hardly see anything in that sawdust.
“Q George, here is a picture of some sort of
device. Picture #1. Did you ever see anything like that?
“A I have never seen some like this at
all. They didn’t show me anything like
this in school.
“Q Here is one, #2. Did you ever se any gadgets like this at
school?
“A No sir, at no time, what I seen at school
I got outside in that box. Everything I
saw in school is in the box with the exception of the match box, the time
fusses and a little glass with a pen in the water so they quiver and force up
the little cork you put in that little glass tube and you put a little screw on
1305
one and then when forced up you make
contact.
“Q #3.
Ever see any of these things?
“A No, sir, never in my life.
“Q #4.
Ever seen anything like that?
“A What is it suppose to be? (Mr. Traynor explained name to him.) This
appears to be like it is only a reproduction of something similar. We have got all little jiggers.
“Q #5.
“A No nothing. We have something like this, but it is flat
and not round.
“Q #6.
Pen and pencil.
“A That is what we have. Isn’t there some liquid and choloride? We have that right outside in the box on the
bench.
“Q How do you operate that? What were you suppose to use that for?
“A It was shown to us the last day. We had to twist something on top and I think
a glass broke and that liquid… It is an acid that burns when it comes in
contact with chloride, I think that is it.
I know how to make it. Chloride
is made by using three parts… (He didn’t complete this.)
“Q What was it to be used for?
“A We were suppose to put it in packages to
ignite. We even have … (Sentence not
completed.) This you could put for incendiaries and also I think you could
screw down below a little ______ also on here and it was on the same
principle. I can show you that.
1306
When that came down here somehow then
it exploded and exploded the other one.
To burn something and exploded something. That is the time device because it takes time
for the liquid to go through that. It
eats through and … or something. It was
said it would take about an hour. The
temperature of the air had a lot to do with it.
“Q #7, indicated to be a German time delay
railway mine. Have you seen it before?
“A No, sir, never in my life. Everything what I seen, everything which was
explained to us in everything out in that box and in addition is the dynamite,
yellow blocks. Bricke I mean. Yes, that’s it.
“Mr.
Traynor: exhibits #1 through 7 shown to George Dasch are attached to Mr.
Kramer’s memorandum to Mr. Ladd dated June 19,1942, obtained from Mr. Bell.
“Mr.
Dasch: Now I am about in the same position again as I was in school, but before
I went to school I never thought it was so much to learn or to know. You understand, and the same way now when I
came here the other day. I never thought
I would have to disclose very much or discuss that much. I would have learned more, if I’d known.
1307
“The
following was dictated to Lucretia McDowell, Federal Bureau of Investigation,
in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traylor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnstone, on June 22, 1942.
“Q George, you told us the first day that you
wanted to go back to
“A That is right.
“Q Did you pay your own way?
“A No, sir.
My way was paid from New York, including a bus ticket and the NYC Line
ticket, anf all the way through outside of that I was given money in Tokyo –
just in Tokyo, but when I left Tokyo I had to sign in Tokyo at the German
Embassy that I was indebted to the German Government to the amount, I think it
was 1661 or 1461. When I was in Germany
working I received a letter from a branch or department of the foreign office
to which a foreign number was attached where it said numerous questions, which
I cannot all recollect – when did I get back, how, where I am employed, how
much my debt was, whether I have paid something back or whether my wages were
attached
to get something. That first letter they had sent to my mother
because that address I had given in
1308
you go ahead and try to get some money
out of me. I can delay them five
months. I merely threw it away. The same way I ripped a number of letters
from Saarbrucker from the branch office of the department which takes care of
all the returning Germans. Why I did not
receive them in
“Q Did you ever pay money back?
“A Hold it a minute. I think it was sometime in January, I
received again the same formula but this time a letter in a different tone and
content. It said about ‘Mr. Dasch, we
have forwarded to you a letter with this formula many months ago. Still today we are not in possession of you r
reply. If you do not within that time
fill out this blank and send to us immediately at
1309
March, but I have never heard anything
any more.
“Q Did you know when you left
“A Yes.
“Q Did the German Government advance money
for your wife to return?
“A Yes. I
think so. I had to pay something but I
don’t know what. Heimachaffung that is
what they call it. The German Government
also paid the full passage of Maria. I
was not in the
“Q Did they charge you interest?
“A No, sir, but I know as a matter of fact by
other fellows that we were all supposed to pay that money back but if we had
done a deed like military active service, then it would not have to be paid but
this is only a statement by hearsay, nothing official.
“Q Did you have any length of time in which
you were to pay back?
“A I suppose that it would have been all
right to pay it so much monthly out of your salary because on that questionnaire
that one question pointed to that way of reasoning -whether my salary was attached in case you
have to pay that way. We were told
personally, that I remember, still in
1310
money was given to us as we asked for
it, but we were told by that official in the German Embassy in
“Q We want to get in detail the sabotage
objectives of each group. Lets start
with your group, the first thing you were to get at, etc.
“A It was principally the objective – it was
outlined as follows:
“1.
To try and sabotage the light metal industry in the southwest, eastern
section of the
“2.
Next, to attach by sabotage and destroy and interrupt the main line of
the
“3.
To destroy and interrupt the destruction of the inland waterway – a high
river from
1311
He happened to like and work
there for a German Newspaper and he seemed to know that. What kind of industry is there I don’t
know. I was instructed to pay particular
attention to the sluices – they had to be attacked – which are between
“Q Any
else?
“A No.
“Q In what order were you to attack these?
“A Let me see, one, two, three. Outside of that we were to do all small
sabotage as it came our way. Anything
which we thought would do some harm.
“Q In what order were you to attack these?
“A First, the light metal industry, then the
railroad, then the sluices.
“Q Which light metal industry were you to get
first?
“A I think the Alcon, because it is bigger,
yearly output of 135,000 tens, I think.
They showed me pictures; we looked at a map. They had all kinds of maps.
“Q Were you told what part of Alcoa you
should sabotage?
“A The electrical power lines. It was proven to us by technical experts a
Hagen as well as in Bitterfield, with I. G. Farbenindustric plants, that is the
best attack. I have been through that
already.
1312
“Q You were not told then where these inlets
were located?
“A We were supposed to make a survey
ourselves. We were just supposed to hit
power lines or if any plant there was a power plant strong enough to supply
enough power to supply electrolysis – our main job was to take the juice or the
electrical power away from the electrolysis for a period between six and eight
hours. That was a big job. The bottleneck.
“Q How long did you expect to cut the
electrical supply off?
“A It was the explanation and reasoning of a
number of technical experts between four to six weeks in case of aluminum and
in case of magnesium two to three months because the things would freeze together. Now you can see that our objective was to
stop airplane production and anything where light metal is used. We wanted to go right to the bottom. Stop the supply then they could not build.
“Q After Alcoa you were going to St. Louis?
“A This was strictly up to me. I said at that time, if after a close survey
it was necessary for all the eight boys to work in one neighborhood, we the
leaders could come together and decide.
I made that suggestion stick because I wanted at the time – I must have
a reason to hold onto that other bunch, that kiddie bunch – 2. I did not want them to be far away.
“Q Here is a map of the
1313
the principle railroad lines.
“A Here, we started on the Ohio River, on
those sluisen between
“Q Where were you going to attack the
“A It was strictly up to us to find the
bottleneck. That means the best spot –
the weakest spot we could find. Maybe a
bridge, a canal, or a weak spot like the
“Q You were then not told to attack any
particular objective?
“A That was left up to us.
“Q Was that the only railroad mentioned?
“A. That
is all.
“Q What about group 2?
“A Group 2 was to stick near
1314
Bitterfield, he had visited a number of
those aluminum plants as an official representative of the I. G.
Farbonindustrie. He told us that is the
kind of equipment you find there. Merely
to take the life blood from the electrolysis.
“Q You were going to attack the electrical
power of the
“A Yes, sir.
The same way. We had to attack
after cryolite and other one up there. A
new one, I think, the new station of the Pennsylvania Railroad in
“Q Were those several places considered most
important. Was that why they were
selected?
“A They told us at the time that the airplane
production of the United Stated is very vital in the outcome of this war. If the airplane production can be crippled or
slowed up, then we would be doing a great job.
“Q Were there no other objectives for Group 1
and 2?
“A Other than those mentioned, only such
small sabotage as they saw fit. Won’t
you try and be in my position for a while.
At that time I could not foresee
1315
that I would be in the position that I
am now. I figured at that time I have
been given dynamite and to get the boys out of the way is my job for the
time. I could not think any
further. If I had tried to find out more
I would have put myself in a dangerous spot.
“Q The order you gave us – the objectives of
the group 2 – is that the way you were supposed to hit them?
“A. This
I can tell you. I made the following
statement and I repeat the same thing again.
They did not give us any set plan how we should operate; when we got
over there this fellow Kerling would meet us on the 4th of
July. Hold you men together and I will
talk to him of what we are going to do and why – because I raised the argument
that in Alcoa there are more factories and there a group of four people would
not be big enough to do a good job. We
should get all the fellows there and do the job and beat it. The whole plan behind the argument was that I
was definitely sure that I could hold onto this guy while I could use him. That was all.
I left those boys and figured I would lose them. The
“Q What was Group 2 going to attack
specifically at the cryolite plant in
“A In that respect it was argued the
following – that thought was already raised and discussed behind
1316
closed doors in Bitterfield by I.G.
Farbonindustrie that the
“Q How were they going to do it?
“A That could not be established. They did not know the structure of the
plant. That was up to the group leader.
“Q They did not instruct you that any
particular spot of the plant was vulnerable?
“A They did not know it; they had never seen
it.
“Q With the Alcoa plant – they knew that if
they stopped the electricity it would stop the plant?
“A No, sir.
Kerling was going to have to decide, with the cyrolite, it was merely to
stop the transportation, It came from Greenland somewhere out of
“Q They didn’t instruct the leader?
“A I cannot recall. They merely said it is up to you to go stop
shipment. You cannot burn up or blow up
sometimes.
1317
“The
following was dictated by George John Dasch to Donald Oden, FBI, in the
presence of Duane L. Traynor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnstone, Special Agents,
on June 22, 1942:
“Q (By Traynor) George, how were you told to
sabotage these locks along the river?
“A We took a trip from
“Q You have first of all the type of look
that is fastened to the side of the canal and the locks either has two doors
and they swing either inward or outwards towards the side of the—?
“A No, inward against the side section of the
lock. Understand? When the lock is closed, the doors swing open
towards the side of the canal.
“Q Where would you attack that type of a
lock?
“A On the edge of the canal. Not on the center but on the edge. They would hang there just like – how would I
say that? (looking around room for
something was as illustration) They would stick in like a window or flap. This we had to destroy.
“Q The connecting edge?
“A That is right.
“(Note:
Throughout the above and a great deal of the following, Dasch made numerous
drawings in the way of illustrating the different types of locks)
“Q Now, then in the second type of lock we
have a type of lock which is one solid piece and it is raised up –
“A No,
no. The second one is different. The second one was a solid piece and when it
was opened it went all the way to the bottom of the water.
“Q I
see, and the water could then come in and go out?
“A It
came back to close it.
“Q How
would you sabotage that type of lock?
“A On
the side also.
1319
“Q Where
the hinges are?
“A No, you would have to get down to the
bottom of the canal to do that. N, when
the water is out or when the water is level.
See when the water is level, then it would only be a yard or so
underneath. That was the time to put on
the dynamite. The other one, that was
the most difficult.
“Q The solid one that would raise up in the
air, how would you destroy that type?
“A There were two different ways, either by
destroying the electrical machines which control that, because that door would
be too solid of a structure to destroy by dynamite. See?
Or the chains or the iron cables or whatever lifts the door up and
down. Understand? That is the way.
“Q What type of explosives were you to use in
destroying those locks?
“A Dynamite.
Dynamite was used for all explosives.
What we made up ourselves, that was only in case we ran short of
dynamite. Understand? That is all we didn’t have to worry about
that for a long time. They said, ‘If you
can use everything we give you take along, you do a great job.’
“Q How many of those clocks would you need to
destroy one of those locks?
“A That would depend according to
instructions back in the school on the thickness of the iron and of the length
we have to destroy and they also gave us a measurement. They told us exactly how much. But I
1320
forgot it. I didn’t pay much attention to it. I couldn’t tell you no more. They told us the different wood, iron,
cables, three different amounts we had to use.
But we reached the conclusion among us, and we didn’t pay very much
attention to that. We would rather use a
little more than this to be sure.
“Q The other day in discussing party names or
workers’ names in these schools, you said that each man was given a name, like
your name for instance is Strich which means dash, Duber was Sanne, in other
words they ordinarily had some connection with the fictitious name?
“A Yes, I think so. I do not know. For instance, I do not know how they call
little Peter. Neither could I remember
the name of this boy – the two boys from Braunswagon (?), this fellow Dick
Quintas, although I read those names over and over.
“Q You said, for instance, Quintas was Querin
Wahle (?)?
“A I
think his real name.
“Q The
names chosen were somewhat similar – you use – Kerling is Kelly, Dasch is
“A Now
wait a minute, hold it! Neubauer is
cook. He was a cook.
“Q Nicholas,
his name is.
“A No,
Neubauer had three names. First his
family name, Neubauer, which is not supposed to be used in any official
records. Understand? In
1321
regards to this thing, they call him
Koch, which means cook because he was a cook.
And his fictitious name was Nicholas.
That is why I cannot remember each man.
“Q Koch man had three names?
“A.
Yes, that is right.
“Q For
instance, you started your fictitious name with a ‘D’, Kerling is Kelly and he
started his name with ‘K’.
“A That
was only done at the suggestion of myself.
I suggested that and it was followed.
I think this idea was found good or reasonably good. I’ll think of the name of this fellow Kelly
over there in their papers. I can’t
remember it now.
“Q One
of the men in Kerling’s group is Thomas.
Therefore, his right mane probably begins with a ‘T’.
“A I
think so.
“Q In
the hope that you might identify a name, I am going to read a few to you from
the telephone directory – (starts reading)
“A Thiel:
Thiel is his real name. Torner Thiel is
his real name from ehat you may call it.
Torner Thiel. And you look over
your records in the Nazi Band and you find him.
Undoubtedly you should find him.
“Q Has he got a record with the FBI?
“A I don’t know.
1322
Nazis we did this and that. I have been here and there.’
“Q Thiel is the name? He was on the same boat that you were on
going back?
“A That is right. That is where I know him from. When I met him on the gathering of the
retuning Germans. That might be when I
met this fellow Kerling the first time, where he was in Nazi uniform.
“Traynor:
You told us about that.
“Q Now
what was the name of that boat that you went over to
“A ‘Tatuka Naru,’ NYC Line. That boat left at 12 o’clock the 27th
of March, 1941, Pier 25,
“Traynor:
You do pretty well on names.
“Q George, you have mentioned heretofore in
some little aside more or less, that after you got through this sabotage
school, you made a tour.
“A I went home.
“Q After you made a tour of these factories?
“A No, we went home first and than we made an
inspection tour of factories, licks, and railroad shop.
“Q I would like next to get in quite some
detail who went along on this tour, the group members, the instructors, people
like that, together with just
1323
exactly what factories you visited and
what specific things were pointed out to you in each of those places.
“A We started on the 12th day of
May at noon. We went on a boat up the
channel and saw the locks. There was
Lieutenant Kappe present, Rheinhold Bart, Dr. Koenig from school, and Dr.
Schulz from school. Outside of that, an
official from the canal system or inland waterways, a big shot, when he met the
officers, you know, and the other fellows: Jesus, he was sick in his back. We guys stood on the side. Christ sakes, what a bunch of nuts!
“The
next day the 3rd of May, we went around 10 o’clock in the morning or
9 o’clock we went to the railroad shop in Berlin and right at the door we were
greeted – with us were Lieutenant Kappe, Warrant Officer Rheinhold Bart – and
were greeted right there by the Chief Engineer, the boss of the whole
place. In the forenoon we went through
the whole plant where the engines were repaired, from one department to
another, where the engines were taken all apart from the boiler to the wheels
to all the different parts of the engine.
And by the boiler we were shown how much pressure is on that
boiler. Understand? This little Warrant Officer marked all that
down. This Rheinhold Bart, that man know
that the Chief engineer thought we were counterespionage men. We had to catch the Russian saboteurs, we
were being instructed for that.
“After
we had luncheon, we went to the railroad yard where we saw the freight care,
the construction
1324
of freight cars, and shown the weak
points and shown where any sabotage could be done in regards to the pressure
lines for brakes, where the brakes locked all at once or whatever it is. And the oil boxes on the side and where the
Russians would undoubtedly and do put sand in it and Emory, understand? As a matter of fact, while they were
explaining to me I happened to remember the reports I had read only a couple of
weeks before. And there I came across
many of this type of sabotage which was committed not only in
“That
night when we got out of the shop, we went to Der. Naukakus. No one was to know what it was. No civilian knew what it was. We went back and there we had a review again
and the Warrant Officer Bart told us that it was an easy thing to put that
dynamite some place, which looks like coal- to throw it right into the coal
tender and that would go into the locomotive fire box and with the pressure
which is already on that boiler and with the pressure exerted by that dynamite,
the whole thing would go high up in the air.
“Q What other methods were you taught with
regard to sabotaging trains and railroads other then putting this coal dynamite
in the tender?
“A Well then, out in Quentz how to dynamite
the rails and how to dynamite a bridge.
And we were told that at a big constructed bridge, we shouldn’t even try
1325
it is because it takes too
much. We should go and look for a
smaller bridge?
“Q What
kind of bridge?
“A They told us, ‘Don’t trouble with the
bridges with girders, they are too strong.
Find a bridge supported on each and only; that would be the bridge to
dynamite.’
“Q Just
the little bridges. Where were you to
attack a bridge like that?
“A Whenever
we find it (laugher) you mean in what spot?
“Q Yes,
in what spot?
“A We would put a package (illustrating to
Traynor)—we would first have to measure the length of the bridge. Those bridges are not very strong, on
[illegible] usually. We had to measure
the length and get a thing piece of wood, long enough to measure exactly the
length of the span, and on one side of that, on that board, we would then
attach already the dynamite and—
“Q How far apart?
“A As I say, about half a meter, and attach those
detonating fuse and put on one of them detonating cape—bring that up to the
rail. When the train comes, the wheel
breaks that and the damned thing goes up, the momentum when it explodes, the
damned thing goes ahead and goes right down.
They figured everything, them bums.
“Q
Were you taught any other ways of
disrupting the traffic?
1326
“A As I said then, it was given to our own
observation to look at weak points. That
was often mentioned, especially by Kappe.
You know, the horseshoe back there or at the entrance of a tunnel. We should always dynamite or put the dynamite
on a bend so the damned thing would undoubtedly run off the rail.
“Q Were you told anything about the or given
any instructions on the signal system?
1327
“A That was also considered. Understand?
But this Rheinhold Bart who had worked in this country for the Long
Island Railroad Company, he worked there in the Maintenance and Supply Department,
he was against that. He said that you
can’t do very much. He said one signal
is out, the man in the control tour would see that right away.
“Q Were you told any other means than besides
putting coal dynamite in the coal tender, blowing up bridges and tunnels, and
tracks, and putting emory dust or abrasives in the boxes of cars? Were you given any other instructions?
“A Yes, by taking apart the pressure lines
for the brakes, so the brakes don’t go no more—not cutting, taking them apart.
“Q Can you think of any other means? Were you taught to loosen the rails?
“A No, nothing.
“Q Okay, where did you go from the railroad
shops?------so that we should have a practical understanding, the Horseshoe
Curve up in
“A (To last part of question) It was only
said ‘Something like it.’ We should
look.
“Q They didn’t name any other spots.
“A No, no.
“Q Okay, you can go back to the school for
this review and tell about railroad sabotage.
What did you do the next day?
1328
“A We didn’t go back to school. We went back to headquarters. The next day we left at 6 o’clock in the
morning by train from
1329
question was opened – a lecture was
given of how light metal was produced, and what vital importance it has in
regard to war production. That it is
exactly!
“We
then went to the inspection of the plant.
We started first at the electrolysis shop or plant and then we went to
another one and them we went to the electrical plant and powerhouse. There we were shown how the power which came
over wires into the plant at a strength of 100,000 volts was reduced to 10,000
volts and then further reduced to the necessary voltage which was necessary to
feed the electrolysis. We also seen the
control room where we were shown a number of electrical instruments, which
names I cannot recollect, but they were round, big, and about eight feet high,
where a vacuum is, and were very vulnerable to destruction. We were told that if only a little bit of air
would enter any one of those electrical machines, there would be instant
destruction and we were shown how it is done.
A little blow with a hammer—on the very top were the insulators of
porcelain, that would very easily be destroyed by just hitting with a hammer
against it. They said “Boy, if you are
able to do that!’
“We
went back then to the conference room and had a review of what we had
seen. The engineers pointed out to us
and explained to us once more in exact formulas and steps how it should be
done. Then we went over to the clubhouse
where all the officials met. There we
were ushered into a dining room where all of us sat down and had the swellest
dinner I ever had in
1330
Cigars and bottles of Wine! We were
treated like kings.
“In
the afternoon we went over to Plant No.
2 in order to see or be sure the same thing over again with the
exception that the transformers were a little bit different but had all the
same object. Understand? That night we went back into Bitterfeld and
we all stayed there over night.
Lieutenant Kappe, Dr Schultz, and Dr, Koenig went back to
“Q (By Traynor) Before we get to Dassau, have we covered the
points he was shown to attack? (Traynor
had been out of the room for a few minutes and missed part of the above)
“A (Dasch) Yes, I just tried to put myself
right into it. Nothing else that could
be sabotaged at these kind of plants at I. G. Farbin. If I were an engineer I could tell you. Try and understand. I have never been inside an electrical plant
in my life. It was a little too much to
have to remember it all.
“At
our arrival in Dassau, we were met by a bus, a special bus, and we brought to
the factory, to a new factory, and aluminum factory, in Aaken. That plant was not quite finished yet,
although already full blast in operation.
The roads were not finished. The
office buildings were not finished yet.
This was the newest factory, producing 22,000 tons yearly of
aluminum. We seen in there the same
electrolysis, the same kind of generators, transformers, only a different
1331
make.
There they had from different electric company a little bit different
make but always on the same principle, the whole everything on the same
principle. In that factory, as well as
in others the day before, I have noticed that up to 90 percent of all those
places employed in these electrolysis were all Russians and German soldiers all
around – German military prisoners. The
foreigners were so-called free civilians, ‘Russians. What a sight!
Luncheon
we had again at a clubhouse for the officers of both factories. In the afternoon we went for the first time
inside a magnesium plant. There we were
shown at first the difference of operation and construction of electrolysis
between magnesium and aluminum. We were
also shown an empty or unfinished vat and how carefully these vats had to be
built. We were told if we had to
proceed, cut off the lifeblood and that is electricity. And if you are able to do that, those
electrolysis which took so long and careful work to build and take such special
stones to build would freeze together and would take from two to three months
to repair. We were also told that
according to their knowledge in this plant where they are manufactured, I think
an amount of magnesium prior to the beginning of the war, we were also given in
that plant two pieces of light metal with the same dimensions. One was a piece of aluminum and the other
magnesium. I approached this consulting
engineer and chief of this whole works and
1332
took him on the side and I said to him,
‘Do you know how much magnesium is in a Messerechmitt?’ And he told me 90 percent of all the
Messerechmitt today and the 88’s the big dive bombers, are built with
magnesium. He told that it is an established
fact by all the automotive engineers which he came in contact with that the
American airplane motors are of a higher quality than the German, but the big
difference between the construction quality of the German today has a very big
production power in this metal magnesium.
I could not tell exactly how much better it is than aluminum and that
just for the fact that
“Q At this magnesium plant, did they show you
1333
any other vulnerable points?
“A No, all the same thing. After visiting that magnesium plant, we went
back to the clubhouse where we were treated to a dinner and beer once more a
final opinion that the greatest bottle neck and the best way to damage the
light metal industry would be to take the life blood – electricity.
“Q All right, George, Let’s continue the
tour. That is the end of that day?
“A Oh yes.
The end of that day was Friday.
Tuesday-river, Wednesday –railroad shop, Thursday in Bitterfeld, Friday
in Aakon. Then we went home. We got home at two o’clock in the
morning. We took a very late train to
“Q The tours are finished?
“A Yes.
Then Kerling and myself went back I think it was on Tuesday to write on
those damned handkerchiefs. And then we
had a farewell dinner with our chief and the following day we left. We got that what happened in
1334
The whole thing explained.
(At
this point Mr. Traynor brought enlargements of what had been written on the
handkerchief which were brought out by the Laboratory. From this point there is not much continuity
to the memorandum due to the fact that Dasch and Traynor were inspecting the
enlargements and were endeavoring to decipher the writings).
“Dasch:
What the hell is ‘Bingo’? How wait a
minute. Bingo is the name of this little
kid Haupt. That is the name under which
he is known in the German High command.
Just as my name is Strich.
“(some
difficulty was encountered in reading the writings)
“Dasch: Can’t you get it any better?
“Traynor: Let’s see if you can read this whole thing?
“Dasch: That is the address which should be used as
an undercover in case we should need it.
Lopez, Lisboa Walter Frohling,
“Traynor: Do you gather that this is where he lived?
“A I think this Walter Frohling is either a
relation of his friend or a friend or he could have been or had something to do
with the Bund. This is the address
1335
over which I shall also reach
Kerling. I thought I put that down
better. 21-55. Frank Daniel Posterious, Helmuth Leiner,
“Q Is that to contact Kerling - That address?
“A That is the address over which I could
always contact Kerling in case I got lost.
In case he loses me, you know what he has on his handkerchief, he has
the false address of my little brother on
“Q
What do you think that is?
“A Father Krepper, c/o Gern Frey, R.F.D. 2,
1336
“Traynor: Yes, Ammonia fumes did it. Are we entirely clear on how this address is
to be used?
1337
“A Yes,
that is a contact.
“Q Did
Kerling tell you who this was at this
“A Oh
yes, look it was agreed upon that any time I lost track of this Kerling guy, I
should always get in contact with Leiner.
He would tell me then where Kerling is to be found. And the same way in case Kerling has lost me,
he would have to go to my little brother at the phony address trying to find
me.
“Q Did
Kerling say he would get in touch with Leiner just as soon as he landed?
“A Last
thing he said in
“Q Do
you think if he goes to
“A It
is possible, I do not know.
“Q Did
he say who the guy was in
“A I
have told you that a little white ago.
When I opened that question, well he is a son, his father and mother, parents,
are not being trusted, but he is a good friend of his and he will be all
right. The son is a friend of his.
“Q But
they are both members of the same Bund?
“A I
suppose so, when they were over here.
1338
“The following was dictated to Ellen
E. Harrison, Federal Bureau of
Investigation, in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traynor, H. D. Wills
and Frank Johnstone, on June 23 1942.
“(Questioning continued by Mr. Traynor)
“Q George,
I have a picture here and I wonder if you have ever seen this man. (Showed him the picture)
“A That
fellow is Neubauer, but he looks a little different now. He is not as heavyset. He looks leaner and has a scar right below
his left temple. He has a piece of metal
in there yet.
“Q In
this picture, he looks to have a mustache.
Does he still have it?
“A He
has a little mustache at this time.
“Q George
with regard to this man Helmut Leiner, do you know anything about his
connection with Kerling?
“A The
only thing I know is when I asked Kerling who this boy was, he told me that he
was a personal friend of his, and as far as I can remember he had been
connected to with the Bund proposition during the time Kerling was in New
York. Kerling told me to be very careful
as he did not trust the boy’s parents but the boy would be all right.
“Q Who
suggested Leiner’s name for the contact place of Kerling?
“A We
were told by Kappe that every group leader should establish an address where
one or the other of the boys could always be reached so in case
1339
we lost track of each other we could
always go back through these addresses to locate a person. When I was confronted with this, I did not
know what to do. I thought of all kinds
of addresses, but I was more or less on the spot. I had to give them an address but at the same
time I did not want to involve an innocent person in this proposition. Lieutenant Kappe asked why I didn’t use the
address of my brother as he was a German and would be willing to help out. I knew my little brother better than he did,
but figured if this was the only way I could do it, I would mention my brother,
but give the wrong address.
“Q Did
Kappe seem to know this man?
“A This
I do not know.
“Q Did
he give any indication of the time that Kerling furnished this name and address
that he knew him?
“A No,
I don’t think so because I heard Kerling tell the history or the boy when he
was at Der Kaukakaus. In other words, I
reasoned that Kappe did not know this boy at all otherwise it would not have
been necessary to hash through his history.
“Q Do
you know if the organization of Intelligence-2 over there has ever had any
contact with this man Leiner?
“A No,
at no time.
“Q As
far you know, they never had any contact?
“A This
boy was just [2 words illegible] to be his cover
1340
address,
understand?
“Q (By
Mr. Johnstone) Did Kerling have the address memorized or did he get it out of a
book?
“A He
got it out of a book.
“Q (By
Mr. Traynor) With regard to the radio reception on board the submarine, so far
you have not been exactly clear in your own mind as to whether they were
sending while below or above water, or both.
At one time you told us that they received a message from a submarine
apparently down underneath the water, saying that it could not blow the water
out of its tanks?
“A That
is right.
“Q That
would lead one to believe that the submarine had communications under water.
“A That
is it exactly. I believed that because I
figured that sound travels better under water than shore. I reasoned that by going back into history
when
“Q During
the day you traveled under the surface?
“A Not
always, we only traveled under the surface the first and second day out of
Lorrient on the Friday and Saturday after our departure. We went underneath the water all day long. At night when it was dark, we went up and
continued at half speed on the surface.
1341
“Q How
close were you to the American shore before you started going under the surface
during the day?
“A It
was very foggy all the way from about five hundred miles off the cost of New
Foundland or Halifax. We always looked
at a map. The helmsman, with whom I
became very chummy on board, would write the exact locations down in a book,
and he used to make figures and mark on the map. I used to ask him where we were and he would
point out on the map where we were. I
think when we were four days away from our landing we had a lot of fog and it
was decided for security’s sake to go under water, and that was why our landing
was delayed. When we were about two or
three days out of the Lorrient, I asked the captain to name the date when we
might arrive in
“Q During
the time you were under the water was there always a radio operator in the
radio room?
1342
“A No. During the time we were under water, one of
the Navey boys in the radio room was sitting on the listening device and the
others were doing something else, that is, other kinds of work, but they were
not tending to the radio. When we came
above the water, the non-commissioned officers and the other three men (there
were altogether four men working on the radios) all got busy. I know this because when I tried to go into
the radio room after receiving permission from the captain to use the long wave
radio to connect with American broadcasting stations, I was told that they were
too busy as they so many messages.
Therefore I took it for granted that when we were on the surface, they
received their messages via radio on their own secret motor band or wave length
in code which was deciphered on their own machines they had there.
“Q Those
are the same machines referred to the other day?
“A That
is right, where he got those letters he marked down on the [illegible] I could
not say. I don’t know if he heard it in
sound, or it showed up in print, in flash.
That I could not say, but I know that when he had a sheet written he sat
down at the other machine which was just like a small cash register, and he had
punched the keys and on top the different letters came out and that again
worked the little typewriter machine which recorded the original message in the
German Language.
“Q That
operated only while you were on surface?
Never when below water?
1343
“A Yes,
only on the surface.
“Q While
below water you had only one man in the radio room?
“A No,
there were two radio rooms, one where the listening devices were, and the other
one where all the sending and receiving
apparatus was, but under water I noticed there was no one in that room where
the sending and receive apparatus was.
“Q Did
they always have someone in the other room where the disc was?
“A Only
when underneath water. There was a man
there continuously with earphones checking the listening device which had a
wheel on it that turned around very slowly.
“Q What
was he listening for?
“A He
was listening for noises which could be heard with this device. He heard something close to the coast on a
number of occasions, and then he would report that he heard a noise in such and
such direction at such and such degree, and usually one of the others would put
on the additional earphones in order to find out that type of noise it
was. I asked how they found out what
sort of noise it was and one of them told me that s steamer has a different
noise than a fishing boat, and they can tell a destroyer or any other type of
boats as there were trained in that type of work. A turbine engine makes a different noise than
a steam engine, and a motor makes another different noise.
“Q Besides
listening for motor noises, did they listen for anything else?
1344
“A Not
on that device. Did you ask me whether
it was possible to receive on this listening device? That was impossible because I asked them if
they could receive any messages, and they said they could not. This was the only to locate noises. They could receive no message
whatsoever. But they must have been able
to receive and send messages because one of the boys told me that they received
a message from another submarine (I don’t know whether or not it had been
attacked) which was underneath the water and could not pump out any more and
the made the remark there was another one ‘shot to hell’ I took it for granted
they were able to send messages.
“Q Did
you ever see them sending or receiving messages below water?
“A No,
not below water. When we were able the
water, the submarine was as quiet as a church.
We were told not to move around and to sit still and say as little as
possible, no one said a word. When we
were below the water and anyone wanted to go from one end of the boat to the
other, they had to pass through the control room, and I noticed that everyone
passing would say, ‘One man in the back part,’ and when he came back would
say. ‘One man going to the front.’ This was done because the balance of the ship
was determined from there. The ship had
to go straight so they had to counter-balance the weight.
“Q Were
you able to know whether the radio room and the sending and receiving room were
locked during
1345
time no one was in them?
“A No,
the doors were always open.
“Q Were
you able to see the radio room most of the time?
“A No,
you could only see it when standing in the front of it or passing it. One side of the door was always open.
“Q At
the time you were told that a message had been received that another submarine was
under water and had apparently been hit, were you above water or underneath the
water?
“A That
I cannot tell because I cannot recollect.
I think though we must have been above the water. This I cannot state with assurance, and I
would merely make a wild guess if I made one statement or the other.
“Q You
could not state if they ever received any messages below water?
“A No. At least it was not clear in my mind that
while there were on the water they could not receive any messages over the
radio or any instrument connected with the radio, but I reasoned they were able
to receive messages while out of the water and send out messages out of the
water with other instruments other than the radio. They used sound traveling devices.
“Q Did
you see any instruments?
“A No,
I did not have it explained. They had so
many little instruments. When approached
one of the boys he told me not to ask about them as he could not tell me
because he was sworn to secrecy. I found
out that the trade name of all the instruments was Telefunken.
1346
I know they had radio sending apparatus
in there for short distances. That was
in the right hand corner. He told me
that was a radio set to send and receive, but not very far away. I do not know whether he meant it could be
used to under water or above water, but when he mentioned radio I said to
myself it is only above water.
1347
“Q Now
then, let us talk about the submarine itself, First of all, how many men were
aboard the submarine?
“A On
that submarine were forty-five men, but one mans was missing, for what reason I
do not know. The bed in the compartment
where Pete and I slept was vacant. In
the quarters of the con-commissioned officers where we slept were the following
three Navy boys: the helmsman, the first machinist whose job was diesel
engines, and the first machinist whose job was to look after the electric
engine or A. machine. I went back in the
engine rooms. As you come from the
control room you went first through the quarters of the non-commissioned
officers and then you went through the kitchen.
From there you went into the room where the diesel motors were. Each motor had eight hundred horsepower and
built by Krupp. Behind that was another
room where the A. electrical machine was.
You could hardly see the machine as it was below to wide control panels
with all kinds of gadgets on them, and the machines below.
“Q Can
you draw picture of the space compartment in the submarine? A picture of the whole thing?
“A Yes,
the whole thing. I can do it very
easily. I will try to remember the
length of the boat first. The length of
the boat was from this building across to that one. (pointed out from the window across the
street to the other building) No, that
wouldn’t be it. Maybe it
1348
would be from the lamp post up to where
that car is parked. That would be about
the length of the boat. I figure it was
between 160-180 feet. The boat was built
in the Krupp works at
“Q (by
Mr. Johnstone) Did it have a name?
“A The
name was
“Q (by
Mr. Johnstone) Did it have a number?
“A The
number was designated U-202
“Q (by
Mr. Traynor) What else was in this boat?
“A Now
let me have a pencil, on top in front of the conning tower it had a gun.
“Q How
big a gun?”
“A I
could not tell you exactly – quite a little gun, but I do not know the
caliber. Also on top at the rear of the
conning tower was another gun that was
1349
a small antiaircraft gun which shot
tracer bullets because as we left the harbor at Lorrient it was tried out. They shot a few rounds. Also on the high seas when we came into the
waters of the
1350
it to see where we were and to see if
we were at the right place to land. That
never happened because it was too foggy.
That is how I was able to go in there.
There were a lot of other gadgets but I don’t know what there were. There was a loud speaker system which went to
every part of the boat, to the torpedo room, to the control room below and to
both engine rooms. From this little
compartment you went down a little iron ladder into the main control room. In there were a lot of gadgets and
indicators, but I also noticed that they had two boys sitting there while we
were under the water. One of them guided
the electric push buttons which balances the boat and the other took charge of
the direction. He had a compass, and in
front of the other fellow was a round indicator in which there was a small
submarine floating in a liquid. This looked
like a carpenter’s level. He would
always try to loop that small submarine on a level basis. What all the gadgets were in there I don’t
know, but I was told that this was the heart of the submarine. From there they could float or refloat all
the tanks with water or pump that water out and take air in.
“Q George,
I think it would be helpful if you could just draw a picture of the inside of
the submarine. We can letter the parts
and then talk about them on paper. Draw
one level at a time.
“(Dasch took a pencil and started
drawing explaining as he went along).
(The first picture was marked map 1 and all various parts were named and
numbered. The drawing
1351
is attached to the original of this
statement only.)
“A Numbers
1 and 2 are the oil tanks; 3 and 4 are hatches; 5 is a big deck gun
forward. 6 is the anti aircraft gun.; 7
is the conning tower.
“Q Was
there anything else on the outside of the ship?
“A There
was a steel base on the tower and a walk around it. I walked around there when they were greasing
the gun. There was a strong cable
running from the front of the tower and extending from the rear of the tower
all the way back to the end of the boat.
“Q Was
it up to the middle, or were there two cables?
“A Only
which ran right in the middle of the boat.
“Q (By
Mr. Johnstone) Was there a machine gun on deck?
“A There
was no machine gun on deck, but they had one which I recognized as a light
infantry machine gun downstairs right inside the radio room. Outside of that they had a number of small
sub-machine guns. When we boarded the
submarine in Lorrient at the harbor, the boat was being guarded by two of the
group and both of them carried little machine pistols. I know they had a machine gun because I saw
it.
“Q (by
Mr, Traynor) Could the machine gun be taken out and put on deck to be used?
“A I
don’t know, but I said to myself that this was the kind of machine gun which is
know to me as a
1352
[6b] light machine gun; in other words,
it could be operated by one man. It was
just like a rifle but bigger. It was
black and long. They had a number of
little machine guns.
“Q (By
Mr. Johnson) Would you say there were
tommy-guns?
“A That
was the kind of guns they had – a tommy-gun.”
The
President. We will pause here and if
there are no comments on either side the commission will adjourn until 9:30
tomorrow morning.
(At 4:45 o’clock p.m., an adjournment
was taken until tomorrow, Friday, July 17th, 1942 at 9:30 o’clock a.m.)