Citation and Use

All persons are granted a limited license to use and distribute this transcript, subject to the following conditions: No fee may be charged for use or distribution.

Publications and research reports based on this transcription must cite it appropriately. The citation should include the following:

  1. Title. Transcript of Proceedings before the Military Commission to Try Persons Charged with Offenses against the Law of War and the Articles of War, Washington D.C., July 8 to July 31, 1942
  2. Place. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota, 2004
  3. Editors. Joel Samaha, Sam Root, and Paul Sexton, eds.
  4. Transcribers. Students, University of Minnesota, May Session 2003, “Is There a Wartime Exception to the Bill of Rights?”
  5. Citations should also include the URL: http://www.soc.umn.edu/~samaha/nazi_saboteurs/nazi08.htm

We request that users send us a copy of any publications, research reports, or educational material making use of the data or documentation. Printed matter should be sent to: 

 

Joel Samaha

Department of History

University of Minnesota

614 Social Sciences

267 19th Avenue South

Minneapolis, MN 55455

 

Send all electronic material to samaha@umn.edu

Cover Sheet

 

STENOGRAPHIC TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

Before the

MILITARY COMMISSION TO TRY PERSONS CHARGED WITH

OFFENSES AGAINST THE LAW OF WAR AND THE

ARTICLES OF WAR

________________

Washington, D. C.

Thursday, July 16, 1942

 

Session VIII

Pages 1075 to 1352

1075

 

CONTENTS

Thursday, July 16, 1942

 

EXHIBIT

 

Defendants’

Read in Record

A   Statement of June 19, 1942, of Dasch

1078

 

--ooOoo—

1076

 

STENOGRAPHIC TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

Before the

MILITARY COMMISSION TO TRY PERSONS CHARGED WITH

OFFENSES AGAINST THE LAW OF WAR AND THE

ARTICLES OF WAR

________________

Washington, D. C.

Thursday, July 16, 1942

 

          The Military Commission appointed by the President by order dated July 2, 1942, met, in room 5235 Department of Justice, at 9:30 o’clock a.m., to try for offenses against the Law of War and Articles of War, the following persons: Ernest Peter Burger, George John Dasch, Herbert Haupt, Heinrich Harm Heinck, Edward John Kerling, Hermann Neubauer, Richard Quirin and Werner Thiel.

          PRESENT:    Members of the Military Commission, as follows:

                    Major General Frank A. McCoy, President,

                    Major General Walter S. Grant,

                    Major General Blanton Winship,

                    Major General Lorenzo D. Gasser,

                    Brigadier General Guy V. Henry,

                    Brigadier General John T. Lewis,

                    Brigadier General John T. Kennedy.

          As Trial Judge Advocates:

                    Colonel F. Granville Munson,

                    Colonel Erwin M. Treusch,

                              Officers of the Judge Advocate General’s Department.

          As Provost Martial:

                    Brigadier General Albert L. Cox.

          As Counsel for the Accused except George John Dasch:

                    Colonel Cassius M. Dowell,

                    Colonel Kenneth Royall,

                    Captain William C. Hummell.

1077

                              As Counsel for the Accused George John Dasch:

                                        Colonel Carl L. Ristine.

-         -         -         -         -

 

PROCEEDINGS

          The President.  The Commission is open.

          Colonel Munson.  May it please the commission, the full personnel of the Commission and all eight accused, and the reporter, are present.  The following absences of counsel should be noted:

          The Attorney General, the Judge Advocate General, Colonel Weir and Major Thurman; Mr. Cox, Mr. Rowe of the prosecution; and Major Stone of the defense.

          The President.  Would you please inform us who is representing the prosecution?

          Colonel Munson.  The prosecution this morning is represented by Colonel F. Granville Munson and Colonel Erwin W.  Treusch.

          The President.  Is the Attorney General going to be present?

          Colonel Munson.  The Attorney General and the Judge Advocate General request permission to be absent during the reading of this document.  They probably will appear later in the day.  They also requested that I so inform the Commission.

          The President.  If there are no further questions or comments, General Cox will continue the reading of the state-

1078

ment of the defendant Dasch.

                              (The reading of the statement of Defendant Dasch was resumed as follows:)

“He said, ‘George, how would you like to go back to America?’  That to me was sweet music.  I told him ‘What do you mean America, that’s a peaceful country, isn’t it?’  He said, ‘Yes, it is a neutral country but they are indirect enemies today because they are helping our enemies with their supplies.  Therefore it is time for us to attack them.  We wish to attack the American industries by industrial sabotage.  How much do you know about that?  Would you mind trying to put together your ideas and write them in English and bring them to me and make three copies, keep one for yourself and bring two to me.’  I said, ‘Yes, I will do that’.”—

          The President.  May I ask to whom Dasch is talking at this moment?

          Brigadier General Cox.  My recollection is, sir, that it is Walter Kappe.

          Colonel Royall.  That is correct.

                              (The reading of the statement of the defendant Dasch was resumed as follows:)

          “I went home and started to work on some possible ideas and I made a five page memorandum in which I classified three way, acts of sabotage; Military sabotage.  Each of those points I described in itself at length and pointed out that the military sabotage would be the most successful.  By military acts of sabotage I pointed out in this memorandum that in the United States industry there are certain bottlenecks which can easily be destroyed and with that the depending industries would be slowed up.  I also pointed

1079

out the possibility of attacking the essential instruments for bomb sites, engines, etc.  I also pointed out in that memorandum that it was the business of an agent to locate the given heart of such industry and attack it.  I gave my advice of how an agent should carry himself when he is in the enemy land.  I tried hard to put down every possible idea which was in my little mind, solely for the purpose of trying to prove to them my sincerity so that I can be used for it and so that I can get going.  After about a week’s working on that memorandum, working nights and copying it myself, I delivered it personally to Lieutenant Kappe.

          “Around at the same time, or a day or so later, I was approached by a Dr. Weessel, via mail, and requested to go to an apartment.  On December 2 or 3, 1941, as I came to the apartment which was mentioned in that letter, I found no one at home.  I walked away again and decided to come back again a little later and I approached the apartment again and that young lady who worked for the High Command, and a friend of my landlady’s happened to come down the street and said ‘why are you here already?  I will see if Dr. Weessel is in.’  This apartment was on the second or third floor and had the appearance of a bachelor’s apartment.  The room I was led into was full of paintings and art collections.  While the young lady

1080

was inside I was outside in the hall waiting and observing the walls etc.  When I was introduced to Dr. Weessel he asked me my life story and asked me why I came to the idea of being used for this purpose.  So I told him I had been away from my country so long and about the kind of work I was doing while the poor German soldiers were dying and crippled and wounded soldiers walking around daily, and I have urge to do more.  He said, ‘Well, tell me in which way you think you could go to America?’

          “First I told him I am going to give him a copy of the memorandum I drew up for Kappe.  He asked me to give him my ideas how I could reach America.  In this memorandum I stated that I would reach Africa, via Italy and the Italian Lathi, an Italian Company, which has a connection between North Africa and Pornam Buco (Nataal, Brazil.  From there I will use a Brazilian plane to fly over the Andes to Lima, Peru; continue to Valparaiso, Chile and get a position, or passage on an American or Japanese steamship to the West coast of America and having reached America jump the ship.  I was advised to give my memorandum to that young lady which I did.

          “On the 9th or the 10th day of December, 1941, I received a reply from Dr Weessel with the following comments: ‘I received your letter and the two memorandums.  Although the developments of the last few days has given our prospects a different phase, I desire to still keep in contact with you by having another conference in the near future.  At present I am going on a trip and you shall hear from me after my return.  Sincerely yours, Heil Hitler.’

1081

          “With that I went back to Kappe and showed him that.  At that time I met a man who was introduced to me as a Captain.  He spoke fluent English with a decided Irish accent (or Scotch).  He said to me, ‘Have you ever been on board a sailing vessel?  Are you a good sailor?’  I said, ‘On the contrary.  I sailed the seven seas and get very sick every time like a dog.’  He made the statement to Kappe that I had the appearance of a wonderful prospect.  He claimed that I not only looked like an American but I acted like one and no one in the world would recognize in me a German.  Kappe advised me to have a little patience.  He will do everything to expedite the development of his plan.  This Irish Captain turned out to be a German from Hamburg or that territory.  I asked Kappe why he introduced me to this man and he said that it was his plan today that the group of people are being sent to America via sailing vessel, which on the other hand is manned by a crew of efficient German sailors of the German Navy.

          “Christmas approached.  I had the chance from my office to go on a Christmas holiday.  I declined this because I was mentally not in a state to go home and face my mother.  She would undoubtedly recognize that something was wrong.  I wasn’t sure whether my plan would work.  Therefore, I took the offer to take my vacation after New Years with the promise that I would get two weeks vacation because of working over the holidays.  On the 10th day of January, I was requested by Kappe to see him at his office of the German High Com-

1082

mand, and for the first time in my life I was cross-examined by Captain Astor.  He told me that he has been in America and he has studied my memorandum and was very much impressed by it, the same way his superior Major Hotzel was impressed.  Before I left his office I was requested by him to meet him on the following day, which was the 10th day of January, at Schrifttleitung Der Kaukasus, 6 Rankee Straase, Berlin on the third floor.  This place is the headquarters of the 0-2 to cross-examine the individual agents or the prospective agents as well as a hideout for all the agents who pass through Berlin.

1083

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent:

          “On the following day, which was the 9th or 10th day of January, 1942, I came into a conference with Captain Astor and Lieutenant Kappe at this hideout, headquarters of Intelligence -2.  There Captain Astor had my memorandum, as well as his own, and the blanks of Lieutenant Kappe in front of me.  We went through each individual blank and consolidated all our thoughts into one.  I also was told in the near future I shall be released from my place of employment and shall take part to lay the groundwork for the undertaking.  I was also told that day that a group of twelve people may consider going with me.  A fellow by the name of Eddie Kerling, who has resided in the United States for a period of twelve or fourteen years, who has also been active in the Bund movement and is the holder of a gold Nazi emblem which signifies that he is a man of old standing, and myself are being chosen as group leaders.  My group was designated Group #1 and Kerling’s group designated Group #2.  I was known in the Intelligence under the name of Strich, meaning short dash.  Furthermore, I was told about the type of people which are being considered for this undertaking.  I left this conference with the understanding that on my return from my vacation which was on the 26th of January, I must report to the office at the German headquarters immediately.  On my return I was told that the start

1084

of the training period was delayed from the first of March to the 15th of March.  The form of training we were supposed to undertake was that of the practical application and the handling of high explosives in the manufacturing of it with ordinary drug-store products.  On the 27th Day of February, I was officially released from my place of employment.  The official reasons for it, the way it is being carried in the papers, called for military service.  I was drafted by the army.  My papers such as social security and insurance and my pension fund are still being carried today by the foreign office.  I am still being kept on their payroll.  The payments for all my social security, sick benefit, insurance, and old age pension is being carried by the foreign office, but due to the fact that a law calls for the disclosure of the difference of the new wage or salary received in the army and the old wage could not be disclosed.  The payment of my wages are being today being paid under a set contract by the German High Command.  All my papers such as social security papers are still in the hands of the foreign office.  To them I was merely called into the army service.

          “On the first of March, I went daily to a room either in the German High Command or at the blind headquarters of Derkaukasus where I began to study the personal history of all the other agents which were supposed to partake in this mission.  I was given the privilege to pass my own opinion upon the

1085

ability of each man.  The majority of the men have lived for a period from ten to fourteen years in the United States working on different occupations.  But the majority have been members of the Bund or members of the NSDAP.  Furthermore, was I able to check up the records of sabotage acts of other agents which have been in this country which are in this country already.  By making this statement some agents are already here I take from the very fact that the reports which were nothing else but newspaper articles, radio messages, etc. which were marked with red markings and signified on top was ‘Please to attention of Intelligence-2.’  In other words, those are reports from the other office to give them so that they know what their agents are doing.  Newspaper articles were about a factory say, in Iowa, which blew up or a big fire somewhere.  Furthermore, I was given to study the plans of the whole water supply system for the City of New York, without the new water supply.  Those plans were photostatic copies.  They had photostatic copies of a map of the whole Westchester County, including Dutchess County, where the line of the water supply was marked off.  Also a photograph of all the dams and spillways.  There was another interesting photograph which showed the location of the main water line nearby, the railroad station of Scarsdale, New York, right off the Bronx River Parkway.  After I had studied those papers I was asked whether it was possible to destroy the big Kensico Dam.  I told them that this was an impossible undertaking.  This dam, to

1086

my recollection, was too strong and that it can only be destroyed by mining it.  I also told them that it was not within my way of reasoning to use that kind of tactics.  I told them I am willing to destroy factories, bottlenecks, etc. but I would not do that.  After about ten days of consolidated work to which a number of technicians, engineers, as well as technical experts, experts on industry, experts on magnet industry, were in consultation, we came to the conclusion that our object of attack was at first the light metal industry of America and the other object the railroad system of the Chesapeake & Ohio, the new Pennsylvania railroad depot at Newark, New Jersey, and the Hell Gate bridge which connects Long Island with the Bronx.  Furthermore, another object of attack was the canal system, the inland waterways and especially the Siusas between Cincinnati and St.  Louis.  Outside of that we were to enact any form of small sabotage as we as an individual thought of being necessary. 

          “It was also our job to plant detonating bombs into the locker rooms which are to be found in all great railroad stations with the sole purpose of exciting the people.  Further, This type of attack was also to be used in all Jewish Department stores.  We have implements such as pens and pencils, time fuses set to the minute, etc.  The attack of the light metal industry was divided into two groups: Group #1, under my own leadership, had the job to

1087

attack the aluminum factory of East St. Louis, in Alcoa, Tennessee, and all those which are to be built or are being built in the Tennessee River Valley. 

          “Group #2 had its job to lay low the plant of Niagara Falls.  Group #2 also had as an object to lay low the plant of the Creolite Company of Philadelphia.  Creolite is being used in the electrolysis bath in the manufacture of aluminum after the beauxite has been purified and added to the electrical power with creolite.  It was stated that the Creolite Shipping Company of Philadelphia has the monopoly of this raw material.  If a group of people is being sent and they work together, the way of attack to which all the groups have been educated, points to the interruption of the electric supply to the aluminum plants because it was proven to us by experts that if the electrical power is taken away from the bath for a period of eight hours all the baths are destroyed for two and three months to come.  We were shown the different types of electrical power lines and also how to detect whether the power reaches the plant by high lines or with underground cables.  It was also our job to make sure whether a plant was able to supply its own power in case of outside interference.  At that time, I made the suggestion that in order to make a complete job the groups would work together so that I could get hold of them when I needed them.  I proved this contention with the necessity that it would take a lot of men to wreck power lines completely.

1088

Then not only the overhead power line structures would have to be dynamited but also the transformers which are unprotected and out in the open.  The transformers were to be attacked but in shooting off a few holes into them and so that the cooling oil would run out.  The power control system in the plant itself was also considered to be attacked in case any plant manufactured its own power.  We are shown the way how to attack and what to attack at every possible angle.  We went to Bitterfeldt and went to plant A and B.  In both plants they manufacture aluminum.  Then we went to Aaken and saw two plants.  One is a magnesium plant.  We were also told that before the U.S.  went to war in 1940 they corresponded in production with that of America – 20,000 tons.  Over in Germany they have three ways they get electricity and power into the plants – by air, cable, and manufacture their own.  All those plants were built in 1935 and 1936.

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Ellen E.  Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special Agent Duane L. Traynor:

          “The attack on the railroad system which came into consideration was to be carried out by fixing an exact spot in the rails of a trunk line, whether a tunnel, a bridge or a big curve like the big Horseshoe Curve in Pennsylvania.  The attack on a railroad was to be done by high explosives.  A small fuse was to be put where the two rails come together and this little fuse would,

1089

when the front wheels of the locomotive touched it, ignite the whole works and with the momentum of the oncoming train would wreck everything.

          “During the early part of the month of March I met a member of prospects who were presented to me for cross-examining.  It was up to me to decide their fitness in regard to their knowledge of the English language as well as their general knowledge of American conditions, whether geographical, social, or otherwise.  During that time I came across a bunch of ‘nit-wits.’  Again I met others who wanted to do the work merely for personal advancement or to get away from Germany.

          “On the 15th day of March a group of twelve people went out to Quentz Lake which is located near Brandenburg.  This training quarters was equipped with an up-to-date laboratory, proving grounds, and other facilities for giving the proper instructions to thoroughly train men for sabotage work.  In addition to the twelve men who were to take part in this undertaking there were four other officers and non-commissioned officers of the German Army.  They received the same kind of instructions as we.  I found out that their job was to establish training school and act as instructors in them.  One of the officers was a Captain and was stationed in Greece.  Another one was stationed in Norway.  The other two men came from the Russian front.  I found out from one of the men that not only German soldiers but also nationals of the respective countries were to be found to be used for this type of work.  It was their

1090

business to be instructors.  It was also brought to my attention that a great number of sabotage agents were sent to Cairo, Egypt, and Port Sues.  Another great number is operating today in Syria and all points in the Far East.  A large number is being sent to enter Turkey.

          “In a lecture by the chief instructor, a man by the name of Doctor Koenig, it was brought to our attention how effectively this weapon has been used.  He related instances such as the capture of Fort Euben (?) in Belgium, and also the entrance of the German Army not only into Belgium but also into Holland, pointing out that all movements were well prepared for in advance by men who rated as citizens.

          “We received three weeks instructions.  During that time we learned to use and make materials out of chemicals and other by-products which were easily brought in any drug store.  At this time I do not remember the exact proportions and the kind of materials which were supposed to be mixed together, but in due time I shall have them in black and white.

          “We learned three basic materials to work with:

          “1.      Easily igniting mixtures to start a fire.

          “2.      Slower burning fires.

          “3.      High explosives.

          “Outside of that we learned to manufacture fuses such as electrical, chemical, and ignition.  He also told how each individual substance of the mixture could be bought and the blind or disguise they were

1091

supposed to be used for.  We were also instructed in the proper use of all explosives and the practical and thereof.  We had night maneuvers as well as day maneuvers.

          “During the time at Quentz everyone of us had to make up a story concerning his identity.  I suggested at that time that everyone should try to stick to his first name and use a last name beginning with the first two letters of his real last name.  In the identity of every man he had to make it clear where he was born.  I, for instance, was born in San Francisco during or before the fire, so that that story would have some form of verification.  It was also my suggestion that when the men arrived in the United States, their first step should be to go to the towns of their birth to check up on the schools and so on in order to be able to back up their statements.  I made those suggestions merely for the purpose of showing that I had my heart and soul in it.

          “On Thursday, April 30, we left the training quarters and went to Berlin where everyone of us went on a vacation.  At the school there was also a third group under the leadership of a man by the name of Dempsey.  Dempsey has been in this country up until 1921 or 1923.  He speaks English, has the accent of a barroom keeper.  He has been in this country since 1908 when he entered it up until 1923.  He stated to me that he was employed as a bellhop and also took active part as a professional fighter or boxer.  At

1092

present he is the manager and trainer of ‘Jug’ Besselmann.  This fighter has fought a winning decision on the 22nd of April against the Italian middle weight champion at Stuttgart.  Dempsey is one of the two men who was also at my former place of employment.  When I stated at the beginning of this memorandum that Lieutenant Kappe had taken two men away from the Foreign Office, I then found out later that Dempsey was one of them.  He was employed as an agent around June, 1941.  He received his instructions at the training school as far back as last August or September.  He was already on his way to America but only got as far as Bordeaux.  The reason why he returned is not known to me.

          “Another man, whose name I cannot remember and who came from Hamburg, was sent back on his job because he did not have the proper qualifications for the undertaking, and none of the so-called agents had any faith in him personally.

1093

          “Another man by the name of Ernst Zuber who came to the school directly from the Russian front from Riga was very much surprised when he arrived at the kind of job he was selected for.  He openly announced that he refused to take part in it because he thought he did not have either the mental or the physical makeup.  This Zuber, who was a Corporal in the German Army, had been in the United States for a number of years.  He was born in Kallsbad, formerly Czechoslovakia.  He has been in the United States for a period of sixteen to eighteen years.  He took active part in the Bund movement.  At one time he was held as a political prisoner in Ellis Island and was sent out of the country as such.

          “The job of these two groups, which had now arrived in the United States, was not only to commit sabotage but also to lay the groundwork for a bigger organization.  We were always to be in contact with the German Government.  In the next group two men were supposed to be equipped for and educated in Morse Code.

          “There were three groups at the school: Group 1 was headed by Davis, myself, Group 2 by Kerling, or Kelly; and Group 3 by a fellow by the name of Dempsey.  Group 1 consisted originally of Davis (myself), Swenson, Pete Burger and Scotty.  Group 2 consisted of Kerling, a man from Chicago, a man by the name of Herman Nicholas, and another man named Thomas (last name).  Group 3 was made up of Dempsey, Ernst Zuber, Richard Quintas, and Henry Kaynor.  None of these names are the correct names with the exception of Pete Burger.  The man from Chicago, whose name I cannot recollect, also carried his own name.  The rest are aliases.

1094

          “There was a certain wedding out process in which Scotty was enlisted for unfitness, Zuber refused to go along, and Dempsey was not considered because he had to go back to training his fighter.  The groups then consisted of:

          “Group 1 – Davis (myself), Swanson, Pete, Burger, Richard Quintas and Henry Kaynor.  Swanson of Group 1 never made the trip over here because he became ill in France.

          “Group 2 – This group remained as originally, consisting of Kerling (Kelly in the United States), the man from Chicago, and Thomas, and Hermann Neubauer.

          “Now that I recollect it, I wish to report the following incident:

          “Some time in January I received word from Lieutenant Kappe to be at the General Headquarters at a certain time on a certain date.  When I arrived there, he informed me that within a half hour I would meet in person a man with whom I would come in contact in America.  His name was Bachmann.  He was supposed to be an American citizen and his job was to help in the organization of the groups.  He was also a front and money man.  When the man was presented to me we were asked to take a good look at each other.  I mentioned my name and he gave me his name.  We shook hands and I was then requested to leave the place with the explanation that in due time I would find out exactly what my part would be in regard to this man.  This side

1095

of the story in regard to Bachmann was never reopened.  When I put the question to Lieutenant Kappe, he told me he had taken Bachmann to the Swiss border that same day so that he could travel on an American passport via Lisbon to America.  He told me that Bachman was arrested in Switzerland and deported to Germany.  The way this story was presented to me gave me reason to doubt the correctness of this explanation.  I think that Bachmann is one S.S. man assigned to watch over the activities of each individual, undoubtedly with instructions to destroy anyone who lays down on his job. 

          “Bachmann is a tall man about forty-eight years of age.  He speaks English fluently and seems to be an American born citizen of German descent.  His hair is black with a little gray.  He weighs about one hundred eighty pounds.

          “The school ended on the 30th of April.  All of us were given twelve days vacation with the exception of Kelly and myself.  We had to report back to Berlin on May11, the purpose of which was to go to the Chemical Department of the High Command to receive additional instructions on secret ink writing.  On the second day we jotted down different addresses on handkerchiefs, one of which is in my possession now.  Lieutenant Kappe bothered the hell out of me to give him some reliable address in the United States through which he could always reach me.  In my life story I put down that I had a brother in America.  My brother, Ernst Dasch, came to the United States in August, 1930 and has resided in New York City ever since.  He is

1096

married to an American girl and has been a citizen since 1936.  To my best recollection he is employed at present as a machinist at some dock yard in the City of New York.  In my fictitious story to Lieutenant Kappe I stated that my little brother was a Civil Service employee at present employed at the submarine base in New London, Connecticut and that his address would be Pelham Road (I cannot recall the exact number now), New London, Connecticut.  This is one address at which Kelly could always find me in case we should lose contact. 

          “During the time in early March when I was able to go through a lot of secret papers which the German Intelligence had on file, I came across a report from an agent in Mexico who stated that he considered a man (whose name I do not recollect, but who had been the Mexican Ministed to Belgium up to the outbreak of the last World War) as an excellent agent and reliable person to build up an organization to attack America from Mexico.

          “On the 12th day of May, the rest of the gang came back to Berlin where we assembled at ten o’clock at the Headquarters, Der Kaukalus.

-         -         -

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Donald Oden, F.B.I., in the presence of Duane L. Traynor: 

          “On the 11th day of May, the group leader of Group B, Keirling, and myself went to a laboratory

1097

in the German High command where we were instructed in using secret ink.  On Thursday the 12th of May, Keirling and myself went down into the laboratory where we marked with secret ink a number of addresses on handkerchiefs.  The addresses, which are corresponding on each handkerchief alike, is the undercover address with which we should reach Lisbon.  Outside of that I have on my handkerchief the name of a Protestant priest whom I am supposed to approach and the name of another person out in Chicago, and also the address over which I shall always contact Keirling.  He, in turn, has also got the priest, the address in Chicago, and the phony address of my little brother.  Also on each of the handkerchiefs are the following three words: ‘Franz,’ ‘Daniel,’ and ‘Postoreous.’  The story about this famous name is as follows: Lieutenant Kappe gave us at one time out at the school in Queens the history of the emigration of the German people into America, and he claimed, according to his story, that the first Germans who entered America in a group were led by a man by the name of Franz Daniel Postoreous and were Kenonites.  Now for the very fact that we entered the United States as the first sabotage man, he designated this first group under his name and at the same time used this name as the catch work among all the people we approach.  ‘Greetings from Franz Daniel’ and they are to say ‘Postoreous.”  Both names have to catch.

1098

          “The secret ink is developed by placing a secret liquid over which shows through in red color.  It won’t wash away.  You can even wash it and it won’t go away.

          “On Tuesday, the 12th of May, the remaining men of both groups assembled together in the Kaukasus in the blind headquarters at 10 o’clock in the morning, whereafter we went on our first inspection tour.  That afternoon we made a trip on a channel under the direction of a waterway inspector.  He showed us the different types of sluices, their construction, and in which way those sluices could be attacked by way of sabotage.  This government official was told by our leader, Lieutenant Kappe, that we were men who were fighting sabotage (counter-sabotage in Russia).

          “On Wednesday, May 13th, we paid a visit to the railroad repair shop at Berlin.  There under the guidance of the chief engineer we went through all the different sections of the plant and received the basic instructions how sabotage can be avoided, as well as carried out by the enemy for he was also told that we were agents to fight sabotage in Russia. 

          “On Thursday, May 14th, we went by train to Bitterfeld.  We left Berlin at 6 o’clock and arrived at Bitterfeld at 9 o’clock.  We were ushered into the conference room of this factory which belonged to the I. G. Farbin Trust.  There we were given a talk in which the vital necessity of light metal was stressed; also an explanation of how the different minerals are mixed and the process of chemical reaction in connection

1099

with the electricity (electrolysis).  Thereafter we went under the leadership of the chief engineer into the plant itself.  We were shown the main power house and all the essential electrical machinery which could be easily attacked were pointed out and explained to us.  Furthermore, the way of attacking them was explained.  We were also instructed how to recognize the flow of the electric power either overhead or by a cable or by electric power machinery.  At noon we returned to the clubhouse of the officials and were treated to a most gorgeous luncheon.  In the afternoon we went to a newer plant, Plane No.  2, which was right close by Plant No. 1 in Bitterfeld, where a newer form or process was shown, especially in regard to the electrical machinery.  There, again, we were shown the practical ways how to lay low this industry.  At night we went back again to the conference room at the old plant where we had a general review of what we had seen so that everything was made clear to us.  Right there and then it was announced by the chief engineer that the only way we could lay low or attack successfully any light metal plant was by attacking the electrical supply lines.

          “After we remained overnight at a hotel in Bitterfeld, we took an early train to Dessau where we were met by a bus which brought us into Aaken.  There we found two plants of the newest construction.  As a matter of fact, one of them was still being built.  The aluminum plant was the one which was still being built.  The magnesium plant which was right opposite

1100

it was built under the four year plan in 1936.  There the chief engineer explained during luncheon recess, where we were again treated to a wonderful feed with wine and cigars and everything else, by showing us the layout of the plant on a map how each individual unit could very easily be recognized on the map and that it was a separate acting unit, not only with regard to electrical supply, but also with regard to safety against fires.  I found that the majority of the workers employed at all plants were either prisoners of war or German military prisoners or Russians who came to Germany of their own free will.  I asked at the luncheon of the manager of the aluminum plant what he understands as ‘free will’ because I saw too many guards around and I asked him how are they being employed, how are they doing.  So he explained to me that the Russian workers come from the Ukraine and were forced either by economic insecurity or under threat of intimidation or by other typical Nazi methods to go free to Germany.  There many of them had their wives along but their wives lived separately in different barracks.  I asked the man, ‘Are the married men able to see their wives?’  ‘How much money do they receive?’  He answered the following: ‘They earn the average amount like any other civil worker, which is about 35 marks a week.  Out of this amount the German Government takes out 20 marks weekly as Russian tax.  Outside of that, their money on food and lodging and barracks has to be taken out of it. 

1101

So, they receive between 5 and 8 marks a week.’  I asked him if they could buy beer or cigarettes with that money.  He said they cannot buy anything except with coupons and those coupons they can only receive if they deliver good work.  As to the question of visiting their wives, he told me that only those which deliver good work are able to see their wives and if the wives are employed in a nearby match factory and the women are able to see their husbands only if they produce good work and vice versa.  Furthermore, The Russians are brought under guard from their camp nearby by means of a little spur railroad to the plant and at night are brought back under guard.  After I heard that story, I made an addition in my mind and the result was slavery as only the Nazis can make it.  The same working conditions I also had a chance to witness on the visit to the railroad yards.  There I asked a foreman, ‘How are those poor people keeping alive?  They appear to me to be starved.’  He said, ‘To hell with them.  They drop just like flys.’  I noticed a bunch of young people who could not have been older than 15 or 16 years, also the weather was not cold, and all of them were wearing heavy fur pieces and when I asked why they were doing it, I was told by a German, ‘Well, them dirty bums, they wear everything they possess.  They go to bed with it and they go to work with it.’

1102

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch, to R.  M.  Bowman, FBI, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent:

          “The following Saturday on May 16, Sunday the 17th, and Monday the 18th were given to us as free days in order to finish up our remaining personal business in the City of Berlin.  On Wednesday night, May 20th, we assembled in a private dining room in the Restaurant Tiergarten (Zoo) in Berlin to a welfare diner given to us by the Chief of the Intelligence – 2.  He happened to be tall man, formerly subject to Austria and rank of Colonel.  That night a lot of speeches were made.  The Colonel called on us to do our duties and made the statement that if we were successful, two little groups of people could do more damage than the divisions of fighting men, and that our work if successful could decide the outcome of this war.

          “Speeches were made from other officers and I, the leader of the group of boys, was indirectly called upon to reply in my own way to the officers.  I thanked them for their sincerity and their help and gave them the assurance that everyone of us would do the very best to which we were selected.  After the dinner, we left the large dinner table to assemble around smaller tables to which the Chief and the other officers took turns participating in the various conversations.  I spoke to the Chief for about half an hour.  He gave me the instructions not to trust anyone that it was my secret duty to kill any traitor of the outfit, he’ll give me the perfect right.

1103

Furthermore he gave me the right to promise any German citizen in the United States whom I could interest to help in his own way as I think he could be of help, that they will be paid in either in money or honors or in the form of a good job, after the war, with the German Government.  He told me to be very cautious, thinking twice before I act, and I understood out of this conversation that the man was a master of his trade.

          “At 12:30 the party broke up.  On the following day, May 21, we were given a free day so that we could rest up for our train ride to Paris the following day.  We left on Friday noon, May 22, for Berlin on an express train directly to Paris where we arrived Saturday morning at 3:00 A.M., and we were received by an agent of the Intelligence Bureau Branch in Paris.  We were brought to the Deux Monde Hotel in Paris, which was confiscated for German officers and Government employees.  We remained in Paris, Saturday the 23rd, Sunday the 24th and left Monday night, the 25th, for Lorrient.  I and Keirling were already told in Berlin that we were to sail on submarines.  His group was to sail on Submarine 203 and my group on Submarine 202.  When we arrived at Lorrient under the leadership of Lieutenant Kappe and also of a representative of the German Naval Intelligence who was the rank of Commander, those two went immediately to the harbor.  As they returned on Monday we were told that group 2 would leave the following

1104

night and left the following night at 8:00 P.M., May 26th.  We were told that group 2 would leave on a submarine May 26th from Lorrient.  At that time I was in the belief that they had left on Submarine U-203.  Later on when I mentioned the No. 203 to the radioman on the submarine which brought me across, he said they re not on Submarine 203.  When I put a question to him, the number of the submarine was kept quiet. 

          “The reason of our delayed departure was explained that the submarine had to go back to drydock.  Therefore, we had to wait until Thursday, May 28th.

          “Four boxes were taken in a private car down to the pier.  Thereafter we put on dungarees which had already been given us in Berlin, while our civilian clothes were in a sea bag.  Another automobile came about 7:30 P.M. and rushed us down to the pier.  The submarine laid there.  We met the commander, Captain Lieutenant Leichner, who in turn took his report from Lieutenant Kappe, and then we were given ship instructions not to see anything while we were down stairs in the submarine.  The crew was very much surprised when they saw four fellows going on the submarine because one of the crew members later explained to me that they all thought one war correspondent would travel on this trip.

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent:

1105

          “We were entertained by the Commander of the boat in company with Lieutenant Kappe downstairs in the officers quarters to a drink.  And we drank farewell.  After Lieutenant Kappe left, the motors of the boat started to move and we floated outside of the harbor.  After a while we were requested by the Captain to come on the conning tower.  As we moved out of the harbor of L’Orient I noticed the following facts.  The submarine was sailing by itself, escorted on both sides with sub and airplane chasers.  Furthermore, another minesweeping boat went about three or four hundred yards ahead of us and I asked what that was, so the Captain explained to me that this boat has electrical devices pulling behind to explode mines.  As we came to the exit of the harbor towards the open sea I noticed a big seagoing streamer ahead of us.  When I inquired the purpose of that boat it was explained that this boat has a greater depth than the submarine and is constructed with separate airtite compartments so that a mine will not sink the ship but will only damage it.  This boat was nothing else but a ‘punch absorber.’  We went along until deep water was reached where floating mines or anchored mines could not be no more.  After I asked the question why the boats leave at night they told me that the submarines have the chance to travel during the whole night above water.  Then after leaving the port of L’Orient they travel the first two days under the water at an average speed of 2½ knots, German sea

1106

miles.  The night the boat always comes on the surface.  The first few days of the voyage I was a very sick man.  Therefore, I could not investigate anything.  On the third day we traveled above water.  I trust it to be that we were about four or five hundred miles out of the harbor.  We were making above water an average half speed of 12 knots, German sea miles, and at small speed 10 sea miles an hour.  Below the surface with the A machine, we made an average of 2 ½ miles an hour.  I had my first consultation with the Captain over the method and handling of our landing.  We took a look at a map and I pointed out the landing place.

          On the second day out of the harbor, the Captain announced over the loud speaker system that we four men were on a special assignment to America, and it was he called upon every man to treat us well, not ask any questions, and to keep quiet about it.  When I consulted with the Captain he reasoned that it would take about fourteen to seventeen days on high sea I asked him whether he had heard anything of the other boat.  He told me that he has been in contact with the other boat that very morning and that they were only 200 sea miles away from us but were taking a more southerly route.  The route we took he claimed to be the route which was described by the German Navy High Command as the New Neutral Route.  This fact was established when a steamer was sighted which happened

1107

to be a neutral steamer, I believe of Portuguese nationality.  When I questioned why that they were so sure it was Portuguese.  They told me that steamer had been approached by others and also that steamer travels the regular routes – the routes laid down by the German government.  Our Navy (German) Intelligence knew just exactly which way it went.  After eight or nine days on high sea I impressed upon the Commander the wish that I would like to land on either between the night of Thursday June 11 and Friday June 12th or between Friday June 12th and Saturday the 13th.  He told me that in order to make this a fact he would have to take the northern route which was shorter.  Then he thought of taking the southern route a few hundred miles north of {illegible location} and would point toward Cape Hatteras and from then would proceed north.  Thereafter, after I explained to him I wished to land that early, he took the northern route towards the banks of Newfoundland.  As we went through the water of the Gulf Stream we had the most marvelous weather and the Captain took this opportunity to slow down the sub’s engines and to grease the two guns on deck.  Also certain grease cups at the rear of the submarine were refilled with grease.  I was told when I inquired that these were the grease cups to the main drive shafts.  We also took the opportunity of this beautiful day to take out the little boat with which were supposed to land, pumped air into it, took a good look at its

1108

makeup and made sure that it was airtite.  Then we spoke over the way we would load it and in which way we shall use it when we land.  The following two days when we came into the main northern water towards the banks of Newfoundland, we had two very cold days.  It was very strange indeed to me that the boat went most of the time at small speed – (it is to be noted that small speed ins distinguished from slow speed).  When I inquired why this was done, I was told that this is the most efficient and fuel saving speed with which the engines can go because he had to figure closely with the fuel.  I was told that the submarine which had a tonnage of 750 tons would have to be refueled on high sea.  When I asked the sailors how this was being done I was told that larger submarines of a thousand and twelve hundred tons carry sufficient oil to refuel others.  The commander of the U=boat told me that he has been attacked by depth bombs, etc.  when he tried to go through the Straits of Gibraltar.  They were severely damaged and just limped badly hurt up to the harbor.  He also had previously made a trip to the Coast of the North Atlantic way up to Iceland and Greenland.  During that time they shot three steamers with the gross tonnage of 36,000 tons.

1109

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Ellen M.  Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special Agent Duane L. Traynor:

          “After we had left the more northern waters we did not have only cold weather but a lot of fog so the Captain decided to go about two hundred miles directly south or south, southwest.  Still the fog did not subside, but it was not as soupy or thick as in the north.  There was still a thick layer of fog over the water while the sky above was clear as a whistle.  This delayed our speed considerably.  We were on the bridge all during the voyage with the exception of the last three days when we approached the American waters.  The men on duty in the conning tower consisted of one watch officer and three seamen.  All four had very good glasses; night glasses for night, and regulation glasses during the day.  Two stay in front of the tower and watch the surface of the sea and the sky for airplanes, while the other two are stationed at the back.

          “As we approached American waters we were forced to slow speed on account of the fog.  Another interesting note I wish to put down in that one of the radio men whom I spoke to told me that he just received a message from another submarine which was hit and could not pump the water out of the floating tanks any more.  This was either Tuesday the 9th of Wednesday the 10th of June.  Furthermore, on either Wednesday or Thursday, the 10th or 11th, we received notice from another submarine that a big steamer of over twenty thousand tonnage was on its

1110

way between Halifax and Boston.  The message of the movement of this ship must have some through the radio under their own secret code and on their own secret wave length.  I know for a fact that they use a wave length because I was asked by the radio man to try to identify an American speaking voice which was near our wave length.

          “The commander, after he received the message about this twenty thousand ton steamer, put on half speed or twelve knots.  He told me that this is one chance out of a hundred to reach the boat because the boat can make twenty knots an hour or more and goes in one direct route.  They can only take a chance to be able to shoot at a ship if they happen to come in time into the route of the ship; otherwise they are unable to make a try because their speed above water at high speed is not more than sixteen knots.  I know for a fact that although the captain put on high speed he did not see any twenty thousand ton ship.

          “For the most part of the day during June 11 we were forced to proceed under water because of the fog and we were too near the American waters to go out or to dodge an oncoming sub-chaser or destroyer.  The Captain explained to me that on account of poor sight which was only three to five hundred meters and since the sub-chasers and destroyers had better listening devices extended deep from the bottom of the destroyers, they could hear a submarine sooner than a submarine could hear an oncoming vessel above water.  Therefore he was forced to go under water.  This also delayed our landing until

1111

the following night.  The last day we also had fog in the early morning and we proceeded at a very slow speed.  We had already given up that we would be able to land the following night or Saturday morning, June 13, but in the afternoon the sky cleared up a little and the Captain ordered three quarters speed ahead with both engines, which was equivalent to fourteen and one-half knots.  We knew about our position because they were shooting the sun continuously.  We were above water at that speed until eight o’clock Friday night, June 12, and in answer to my question, the Captain told me that we were only twenty miles off shore.  It was still very foggy.  We submerged under water and continued at a speed of two and one-half knots toward the shore.

          “When we submerged around eight o’clock we had a conference with all the officers of the boat and also the two men who were selected by the Captain to row us to land took part in this conference.  Our views were exchanged and we arrived at a plan as to how we should enact the landing.  We decided on the following plan:

          “The two sailors as well as all of us were equipped with small paddles.  The money bag and the bag with the clothes were given to Pete Burger.  He sat all the way in the front of the boat.  One sailor had a little blue flashlight with him to signal back to the submarine to be pulled back on the towing line which was fed us as we left the submarine.  Furthermore, I received orders from the captain that in case I should be stopped by anyone, either a civilian or a soldier, Coast Guard

1112

officer or so on, that I should use an act of violence and send him back in the rowboat so that they could take care of him.

          “Around 11:30 New York time we went above the surface and continued with the A. machine at half speed.  I did not have time to take a look at the rate of speed.  In the meantime we got ready for the landing.  We put our civilian clothes into the bag, put on the dungarees, but kept our civilian hats on.  Two of us had civilian hats on; the others were without hats.  As we approached the coast we could not see ten or twenty meters or fifty yards ahead.  It was a pitch dark, foggy night, made to order for landing.  We approached at very slow speed above water.  Around 1:30 or 2:00 o’clock New York time the Captain gave orders for us to come above board as the landing would proceed.  The four packages were already brought on deck by the sailors and were placed in the boat.  To my way of reckoning, we were about four or five hundred meters off shore.

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch, to Rachel M.  Bowman, FBI, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent:

          “Before I left the boat I begged the captain to announce to his men over the radio that every man should keep his mouth shut about what he seen.  I boarded the little row boat as the last man.  We kept on rowing away from the submarine at a slow speed but we could see the submarine just going away from us.  We took the general direction of the shore and this was established from compass on the boat.  The Captain told us to put the boat

1113

in lengthwise, parallel to the shore.  After about five or ten minutes of rowing, we could hear the noise of the surf but the noise was at some time to the left of us then to the right of us and then straight ahead.  I reasoned right away we were going in a circle.  Therefore I told everyone to be quiet for a minute so I could listen to the exact direction of the sound of the surf.  I picked up the surf and gave command to go that direction.  As we came closer I seen the waves rolling over and gave the command ‘Come on boys, Let’s go to it’ and as we came to the waves the boat went on its side and we were hit three times by the waves.  We were hit to bad that the boat was three-fourths filled with water and two of the boys lost their paddles but we managed to get over the riding waves.  I had a long oar and I tried to reach ground which after a little ways I was able to do it.  The moment I did that I jumped right across all the boys and jumped into the water up to my waits and I helped to pull the boat by hand and asked the boys to come right out, and according to instructions given before, each man took one of the boxes out and carried it right on the high level of the beach.

          “I went right away on top of the beach and took a look of the surroundings.  I noticed to my horror beacons to the left of us and beacons to the right of us but I thought we could act quick.  I ran back to the boat, gave the boys instructions to take off their dungarees and put on their civilian clothes while I still had on the dungarees.  I left the boys to go back to see how the two sailors

1114

are making.  They were struggling to make it out of the boat and looking for their lost oars.  I helped them to pull the boat further on land and to turn the boat over to get rid of the water, and at the same time though the landing was perfect and that they should return on the boat.  They should only wait until I will fetch the clothes bag where the dungarees were put to take back on the submarine.

          “As I was talking to the fellows and giving them the last instructions I was just on my way going back on the shore when I saw to my horror a tall person walking along the shore towards us with a flashlight in his hand.  I realized quickly that this could not be one of our men.  In order that he not recognize the two men with me as sailors of the German Navy, I approached toward the man in quick steps.  I recognized him as an American sailor of the Coast Guard.

          “He asked me ‘what are you doing down here?  What’s up here?’  I said, ‘What do you care what’s up here, we got lost.  We left East Hampton to go down to Montauk Point and we got lost.’  He said, ‘What do you mean East Hampton and Montauk Point?  Do you know where you are?’  I said, ‘Well, I think you should know.  Where is your station?’  He said, ‘It is right up there.  My station is Amagansett.’  So I knew that we were off our original landing because I wanted to land on the Beach of East Hampton.

          “The sailor boy asked me to come along to his station.  I was confronted with a very ticklish problem.  In order to carry out instructions of the Captain I had

1115

to lure the man back to the row boat so that he could be overpowered by the two sailors and brought back on the submarine.  On the other hand if I don’t do this and I go with him to the station I have it hard to explain what we are doing here because the bags and the entire works are laying on the beach because I knew by the actions of my fellow travelers they had lost their heads completely.  So I decided to use a little psychology and see it I could bribe him.  I noticed then that the boy was more scared of us than I happened to be scared of him, although I was scared of him at the beginning, because after I went towards the boat still not knowing what to do I seen the boy was kind of slow in following me so therefore I felt kind of sorry for him.  I turned right around and hollered at the two sailors in English ‘Get back where you came from.’  I don’t know whether they understood what I said but I believe they knew we were in trouble but also thought the landing was complete.

          “I approached the boy directly and as I was talking to him and telling him that I knew that we disobeyed and that we had done the wrong thing.  I thought it best for him to forget it if I would offer him something.  As I stood there talking to him and he refused to be bribed, one of my fellow travelers came running down the beach with the bags with the dungarees and he addressed me in German with a few words.  I directly intercepted and hollered at him with a loud voice ‘You damn fool, why don’t you go back to the other guys?’ with that I impressed the sailor that there were more fellows near by

1116

and I noticed that the poor fellow was scared so I spoke to him the following words: ‘You have got a father and a mother at home boy.  You would like to see them wouldn’t you?  You have undoubtedly given your oath to do your duty, and I am telling you by taking this money which I am offering you, you are doing nothing else but your duty so please take it.  You will hear from me from Washington.  My name is George John Davis.  What is your name, boy?  He said ‘Frank Collins, sir.’

          “I gave him first $200 or $220, I did not know which as it was dark.  I seen it was not $300 so I peeled off my roll additional money to make up the $300.  The money I had in a tobacco pouch.  I asked the sailor what he was going to do with the money and he replied, ‘Some of it I will give to my parents, some of it I will put in the bank and I will have a good time.’  I said ‘Boy, do just that thing but you will hear from me from Washington.’ He said, ‘All right, sir, but now scram out of here will you please?’

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Donald Oden, FBI, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent:

          “As I came out on the beach to meet the other fellows, I noticed that this fellow Burger had notified the others that I had met an American sailor.  They were greatly frustrated.  I told them, ‘Now boys, this is the time to be quiet and hold your nerves.  Do exactly what I tell you.  Each of you get a box and follow me.’  I was right close by a blinker and a house.  I could see

1117

the house through the fog.  So therefore I decided to go inland and use a direction towards the right.  I went over one or two sand dunes where we came into a gulch where I stopped and had the boys put down all their bags and start digging holes with two little shovels which we had taken along from Berlin.  We made a hole about two yards wide and one yard deep.  I put one box down and another box and another one.  No, I put one box down and the other one next to it and four boxes together at the bottom of the hole and put the dirt over it.  I still had dungarees on and was soaking wet.  I asked the boys to go and get some sea weed and cram it at the very end and place in there so that in the morning when the sun comes it should look dry.  When I was ready to take off my dungarees, I noticed to my surprise and madness that the bunch of bums had left the clothes behind.  Now the question was to find them.  Burger and Henry Kaynor were shivering like a bunch of kids.  So I told them, ‘Lay down and keep quiet.’ Quintas walked ahead and followed whereabouts we had been.  So we went along the top of the dune right on the shore and felt along until finally we came to the clothes and we picked them up first one we see and I came back and put on my clothes.  Thereafter, I told those boys while we left to put the bag of dungarees to bury them right close by and also the shovels.

          “Thereafter, we proceeded inland in a low position, crawling like, until we came about a half mile off shore.  In the fog ahead I could see a row of houses and I stop-

1118

ped because to the right was a blink light and it always came across and to the left that one came closer.  I saw we were on a point and I was going again towards the shore.  So therefore I told them, ‘Lay still.  Give me an opportunity to surround to get my eyes fixed.’  So after awhile I told them, ‘It’s no use.  It’s too dangerous to go any place.  I suggest we are safer here than anywhere else for about an hour.’  After remaining there for one hour, I told the boys to follow me closely.  I noticed ahead of me a road because I saw the headlights of a passing car.  That gave me a new sense of direction.  I went straight for that road, after reaching it, crossed it and went on the other side of the road into the thick bushes.  There I decided to wait at least until it got a little lighter.  All during that time a number of cars passed us and the beacons went on and on which we didn’t see from the water, and I must admit I was partly scared myself, but Henry Kaynor, he shivered like a dog.  He said over and over, ‘We are surrounded, buys.’  It happened that one of the trucks was loaded with sailors which went down towards the station and I figured that must be a relief crew.

1119

          “When it was a little bit lighter, we took the road towards the right.  The first dirt road we came to we took and walked towards the main highway which was the highway from Amagansett to Montauk Point.  Later in the morning when we were sitting on the station at Amagansett waiting for the train, I could actually verify whereabouts we had landed and where we had been because I knew that district.  As we hit the main highway I still did not at that time know where Amagansett was so I decided to go to the right, and when we came to the first house I saw a bunch of cars in the back of it with lights in it and I notices it was a parking space for camping grounds and I decided to follow the road, but when I came to it I thought, ‘Jesus Christ, I am falling right into a trap,’ but I walked right past them We followed that road until we came to the railroad tracks.  I noticed one outstanding fact – that the railroad tracks to the right of me became a single track, while to the left of me I saw two and three tracks therefore I reasoned that is the direction towards the city.  So we took that direction and walked about two or three miles along the railroad tracks.  About 4:35 in the morning—it was exactly a little after five o’clock when we reached the railroad station in Amagansett and the place was closed.  We cleaned ourselves up as much as we could.  We were filthy and wet and as stained as anyone could have been going through water and wet grass.  And there I decided to wait until the next train came.  No one came around.

1120

We sat outside on the bench and I gave the next instructions how the boys should behave and what to say in case they were stopped and questioned.  Around six o’clock I noticed smoke coming out of the smokestack of the station house.  So I thought this is a sign that a train will soon come by here and around 6:30 the station was opened.  So I walked into the office and looked at a time table and seen that the next train left there at 6:57, an express from Montauk all the way into Jamaica.  I went over to the station master, greeted him in a casual manner, bid him good morning, bought four tickets to Jamaica and told the station master that the fishing in this neighborhood has been pretty bad of late.  I went outside to the boys and told them that I had tickets.  We all went into the train and I sat the two boys in front of me so that I could be at their assistance in case they should be asked by anyone.  One of them confessed he had never ridden on an American train before.  As I got into the train I saw a lot of newspapers and I gave each of them a newspaper to read.  In all the excitement I ripped my pants to pieces.  I was a sight for sore eyes.  We got into Jamaica at nine o’clock that morning.  I have given instructions before we left Amagansett that we should part.  Henry Kaynor under the leadership of Quintas should go to Jamaica and buy the necessary clothes to be presentable when they go into the city of New York.  I went with Pete Burger and we bought our new shoes at a Regal Store in Jamaica and a new suit at one of the big stores,

1121

and also shirt and underwear.  I went to a restaurant to the men’s toilet and changed my underwear and the new suit I put on.  I had it tailored or changed right at the shop and I left the store with the new clothes on.  Thereafter, I went in the city of New York.  My bag, which was an old Gladstone bag which I bought in 1923 in New York, I had checked at a railroad station in a locker.

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Ellen E.  Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special Agent Duane L. Traynor on Saturday, June 20, 1942:

          When my buddy, Pete Burger (correct spelling) and I reached New York, our first job was to buy additional clothes which we did at Macy’s and Company.  We bought some shirts, underwear, ties, handkerchiefs, and other necessary things.  Thereafter we checked in at the Hotel Governor Clinton where I occupied room 1414 and my buddy, Pete Burger, occupied room 1421 where he still is today.

          “On the day of our landing, at three o’clock we met at a prearranged meeting place in New York City.  This place was the upper section of the Horn and Hardart Cafeteria at 8th Avenue between 34th and 35th Streets in New York City.  We spoke of general things, of the landing, and how happy we were that everything worked out so well.  I told the boys to find themselves a hotel.  I suggested that they go to the Chesterfield Hotel the following morning, I found that they had not checked

1122

in at that hotel.  I also left them on Saturday with the understanding that we should meet again at one o’clock on Sunday at the Swiss Chalet on 52nd Street between Fifth and Sixth Avenue.  I also told them that in case we should not meet at that restaurant, we should meet on the same or following night at six o’clock in front of Grant’s Tomb at 116th Street and Riverside Drive.

          “Early Sunday morning I thought it was time to cross-examine Pete Burger.  I had breakfast with him in my room.  I opened the conversation about the incident and the words we exchanged the time we were together in a restaurant back in Quentz.  At that time he told me in a few words enough to indicate to me that he was a man just like me.  I begged him that Sunday morning to tell his story to me, no matter how bad it was or how good it was, but to tell the truth and nothing but the truth.  If he would do that I would tell him my story exactly as it is.  I would give away my full identity and the reasons why I went into this undertaking.  When he told me his story about going back to Germany in 1933 and getting into high positions which brought him eventually into Poland and his fight against the evil ways the Nazis employed against the poor Polish people which he, as a humane person, started to fight against, which fight resulted in his arrest and confinement to a concentration camp for seventeen months, I knew the buy cam into this undertaking not as officially known to ‘rectify his mistakes’ as the Nazis called it, but to get even with

1123

them.  He told me all about the trials he had during the time spent in the dungeons and the people he met there, former High German officials as well as leading Jewish people.  He told me about the addresses he has of leading Jewish people whom he is supposed to contact when he got on the outside, After he told me all his life story and I knew the boy was on the level, I told him in a few words who I was, not George John Davis, the group leader of a gang of saboteurs, but George John Dasch, the man who came here into this country for the opportunity to fight Hitler and his gang in my own fashion.  When the boy listened to that, he broke out into a crying spell. 

          “Although we had made a prearranged date on the day before that we were supposed to meet at one o’clock at the Swiss Chalet on 52nd Street, I decided to let this matter ride for I had Burger talking and I did not want to have that interrupted.  I wanted all the facts and at the same time I was anxious to tell him my side.  After I knew all the facts and what this man knew of the inner circles of the Nazi Party, its corruptness, its methods of fighting, its methods of deception, and its methods of punishing people, I said to myself, ‘Boy, you are just made to order.  You shall have your job in the setup which I hope to be able to create in order to fight that rotten gang.’

          “We talked until almost six o’clock when I happened to remember that I had to meet the other two boys, Dick Quintas and Henry Kaynor.  We jumped into a taxi and

1124

went to 116th Street and Riverside Drive.  We walked over to Grant’s Tomb and there the two boys sat on a bench.  We passed them at first not showing that we recognized them.  They left the bench and walked down 117th Street toward Columbia University.  We followed closely behind.  As we crossed Broadway we joined.  They expressed to us their dismay for not having kept the first prearranged meeting at the Swiss Chalet, but they were certainly relieved that we came that night.  They both said if we did not show up they would have checked out of New York immediately because they reasoned something had happened to us.  I quieted the boys and told them that they should look for an apartment.  They told me that they had spent the night at Hotel ______ which is located at the corner of 32nd Street and Broadway.  They had a joint room and paid $5.50 for it.  I told them at that time that my next job was to check up on the correctness and sufficiency of their papers because the papers all of us had, with the exception of myself, were Social Security cards which were lithographed by the German High Command which used a real Social Security card as a sample.  Outside of that each man was in possession of a Registration Certificate.  Those Registration Certificates were all written by me and countersigned under the given name of each individual.  I have noted the Registration Certificate of Duane L Traynor and identified it as being identical with those we had.

          “I also told the boys that I would have to leave New York in order to contact some people.  They knew that I

1125

as leader of the group had to contact people they did not know, so this fact gave me the opportunity to give them a reason as to why I was going to be away.  I told them that Pete Burger would always be in contact with them.  All the while Pete Burger knew that I would go to Washington in the coming week when my nerves had quieted somewhat.  I left Pete Burger in New York with instructions to keep the boys quiet and make them feel at home so they would not get any crazy ideas in their heads and run away where I could not reach them when I needed them.

          “At this time I would like to explain the reason why I had no Social Security card in my possession.

          “When we left on the train from Paris to Lorrient we were all in two separate compartments with a sign outside on the door stating that the compartments were reserved under orders of the High Command.  This trip was made at night.  While I was sleeping on the bench, I had a little pocketbook in my hip pocket where I kept my social security card and pictures of my mother, my wife, and myself.  During the early morning, while I was half asleep, the pocketbook in my hip pocket annoyed me so I took it out of my pocket and put it in the hammock in the berth.  When we arrived at Lorrient, we had to take the big bags out and since we had to hurry, I forgot and left the pocketbook on the train.  I did not notice that I had left it there, but I knew that I had also put my pipe there and that I missed it.

          “The same day, when I was in conference with Lieutenant Kappe and the Officer for the Navy Intelligence,

1126

we spoke about the so-called legal American papers we had in our possession.  Lieutenant Kappe asked me to show him my Social Security card.  I reached for my back pocket and noticed that I did not have my pocketbook.  I went back to my room and could not find it and then it came to me that I had left it on the train.  On that day we went to a French restaurant in Lorrient and had something to eat.  I excused myself and went to the railroad station at Lorrient to see the German Military Controller.  I told him that I had left a little portfolio with ‘hot’ papers in it and that I was scared to have it fall into the hands of the French because the papers could be used to the disadvantage of the German people.  I asked him to call the end station, I think it was Quimbus (?).  The non-commissioned officer of the guard at the station called Quimbus and found out that nothing was found.  He asked me to return again in the afternoon.  I did not mention anything to anyone that I had lost my portfolio with its contents.  When I returned that afternoon to the railroad station I found another non-commissioned officer on duty.  When I told him my story that I was asked to come back in the afternoon in order to find out if the lost article was found, he asked me for identification papers.  Since none of us had any form of identification papers at all because we moved in a group, I was unable to identify myself so he told me he would have to see the Commanding Officer of the station who was ranked as a Captain.  When I went to him, I saluted him in the Nazi fashion and told him my

1127

story about having lost some ‘hot’ papers.  I even went so far as to tell him that the papers were printed in the English language.  He told me that he would have to trace this and would have to call up an officer of the Gestapo.  He told me if I could not otherwise identify myself he could not let me go.  I referred him to Lieutenant Kappe and asked that he have a non-commissioned officer call him and inform him of my predicament.  After about a half an hour Lieutenant Kappe came to the station.  During the time I was waiting there, this Captain looked at me in a very suspicious way because my German was not up to his liking.  He thought he had caught a spy.  I was very much amused, but finally Walter Kappe arrived and this Captain explained to him that he had made a big strike and Walter Kappe decided to wait for the arrival of the Gestapo agent.  When he came he was a big man in the rank of a Major.  He not only gave me hell for being so careless, but also gave Lieutenant Kappe hell for having given us those papers when we actually did not need them.  A record was made of the contents of the portfolio, and Lieutenant Kappe asked the Major to ask the Captain to leave the room.  Then Lieutenant Kappe showed the papers which he had from his office of the General High Command, and he disclosed to the Major the whole setup.  I was released in custody of Lieutenant Kapper and went back to the hotel.  Kappe suggested to me that now since I have lost my papers it would be very dangerous to go to America and move about there under the name of George John Davis in which my Social

1128

Security card was stamped.  I told him that I would go under the name of George John Day.

          “I did not have a Registration Certificate because at the time when the Military Registration Act came into being as a law I was above the registration age limit.  I also knew that it was my duty when I got to America to get myself a new registration card because in the meanwhile it was known to us that the United States had extended the age limit up to forty-four which put me into the registration class.  That was the argument that I gave to Kappe.

          “On Sunday night, Pete Burger and I went first to a bar and restaurant known as the Queen Mary on 58th Street between Madison and Fifth Avenue.  Pete Burger was to keep in contact with the other boys at the first meeting.  At that time I think they were living on 79th Street somewhere.  I wanted to see my former bosses, Danny Doyle and Mike Larson.  I was told that they had a new place of business named the Iceland Palace on 53rd Street and Broadway.  We went directly over there where I had the pleasure of meeting Danny Doyle.  He was very much surprised to see me and asked me what I was doing, and I told him he would be surprised what I was going to do.  The same night we also went to a place called the 18 Club on 52nd Street where Pete Burger and I had a few drinks.  Thereafter I left Pete Burger there with a young lady whom he met there and I went back to my hotel. 

          “On Sunday night I told Pete Burger that it was absolutely necessary for me to get in touch with the FBI

1129

because I reasoned that in case any one of the other seven boys or even myself should happen to fall into the hands of the police, it would be very difficult for me to prove the real reason why I came here.  Therefore I called up the FBI after I had gotten the telephone number out of the telephone book.  I went to a hotel lobby between 52nd or 53rd street and the corner of Madison Avenue and called up the FBI.  The first person who answered the phone asked me what I wanted.  I asked him whether he was able to take a statement and he told me he would connect me with an Agent.  When this man answered, I told him I would like to make a statement.  I told him I was a German citizen and had arrived in this country only yesterday morning.  Thereafter he asked my name so I thought I would use the password name which incorporated the whole idea, namely, Franz Daniel Posterious.  I spelled my name slowly to the officer, whereafter he asked me to get in contact with him at his office.  I told him that I believed my case was so big that only Washington would be the right place to spring it, and that in my own little mind the only person who should hear it first would be John Edgar Hoover.  Again he begged me to come down and see him, but I told him nothing doing and asked him to take the following message: ‘I, Franz Daniel Posterious, shall try to get in contact with your Washington Office this coming week, either on Thursday or Friday, and that you should notify the Washington Office of this fact.’  I told him that I was about forty years of age, after he asked me who I

1130

was, and that I had a little gray in my temples.  I had him repeat what I told him in the message, and mentioned the exact date and time when the message was handled.

          “Pete Burger in the meanwhile had been waiting for me outside and when I came out and told him what I had done, he was very much satisfied because he understood the magnitude of this undertaking.  It was a check and recheck.

1131

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Donald Oden, FBI, on June 20, 1942, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent.

          “Monday I went around shopping.  Monday, after having breakfast in my room with Pete Burger, we continued to exchange our views in regard to the corruptness of the political party.  We also reopened again the question and ways which I will undertake when I get to Washington.  I have given the assurance right there and then that I shall do everything in my power not only to verify his identity, his correct identity, and also give him the assurance that in case that I should be successful in establishing my end and that in participation to fight the Nazis that he will take an active part in it because I realized his great ability of knowing the inside of the Nazi Party.  This was very, very essential to the whole setup.  That day I sent him alone to meet the boys at three o’clock in the first place where we met and that is the Hene and Hart (phonetic) Cafeteria on the upper floor.  (in aside: we went back to Icelands; we bought bags; we went to Maceys and Company where I bought a new suit, my Gray suit.  I bought my wrist watch at Maceys and Company and shirt, no, shirts I bought on Saturday.  And we bought luggage and also my little table clock.  (We left Maceys store after 6:30)

          “When we got back to the hotel, I changed clothes, put the new suit on which I had bought that

1132

day.  Thereafter we went out and had dinner.  To the best of my recollection, we had dinner at the Kungaholm Restaurant, I think it is located on 53rd or 54th Street between Madison and Fifth Avenue.  We had a Swedish Smorgasbord dinner.  Thereafter we went over to Broadway and went back to the Iceland where I met Mike Larson.  Mike Larson was very delighted to see me again, put a question to me what I am doing, and there and then I told him that I came out of Chicago; that I was still working for the Mission of Our Lady of Mercy selling sanctuary supplies.  We left that place.  I believe the boy went home to bed.  I sent him back to the hotel, while I went to 49th Street to the hotel and Restaurant Executive Club.  When I came there, a place where I used to be a member and where I was a well known person because as a German for many years I used to take sides with the Jews which are up to 99 per cent of members of that club, siding with them of their rightful fight against Hitlerism.  When I finally showed up in there, it was just like a bomb shell because at the time when I was ready to return to Germany I thought it advisable not to tell them the real truth.  I was known there as an idealistic Communist and I let them believe that this was a fact.  Therefore, I have told them that I was going to Russia.  So when I sent a few cards to that club on my way to Germany, I think one from San Francisco, another one from Tokyo, and the third one from Harbin.  This fact

1133

that they knew I had left the country and been on my way towards Russia gave verification to my story that I went to Russia.  That is why when I came into the place the first question was, ‘How’s Russia?  Hello, Russian Kid!  We knew you were coming back again.  America after all is best.  Don’t you think so?’  I told them, ‘No, Sir, Russia is the country.  You have got to admire the Russian people.’  I have told them that I have been in Moscow all the time.  (Aside: I haven’t been there but I listen to them continuously.  Although I made a wrong statement because I have not been there all the time, this statement is not altogether wrong because for a fact I was employed as a monitor with the German foreign office I was daily in contact over the radio with Russia) Therefore, I had a wonderful story to tell them backed up with facts which I know.  There Mr. Koyer, the Manager, asked me, ‘Where is Snookums?’  I have told them my wife is back with her people in Pennsylvania which was a lie, because sorry to say I do not know where my poor little wife is today.  He told me that at one time or another the FBI was there finding out about me.  At that time I did not know what to tell him because I did not know why the FBI was there but I could imagine it was in connection with my wife.  But in the same time if I would have kept this subject of speech alive, this fellow Meyer and the whole gang in there would eventually know that I had been in Germany.  So therefore I changed the subject as quickly as I could by taking the invitation to play cards.  I sat down and played two-handed

1134

pinochle with one of the waiters known to me as ‘Fritz.’  Many of the boys used to be very good to me when I didn’t have any money; when I had lost a while gambling.  I thought now is the best time to give these poor suckers a chance to earn some money their own way.  I gave the waiters five or ten dollars and I played cards with them.  I continued to play Monday night, Tuesday all day until Wednesday morning at seven o’clock.  All during that time a lot of other members of the club came over to me and greeted me and asked me questions which I did not answer directly.  I merely said, ‘Boys, don’t ask me nothing.  I cannot tell you the truth anyway.’  In that game there were all kinds of fellows betting on the side of my opponent, the waiter fritz.  At the end of the game the conclusion was reached that I must have won about $250.  That morning in order to rectify myself, to rectify the winnings I took away from the poor sucker, I paid all their bills of everyone in the house.  I paid all their bills.  Outside of that I gave a polish boy I know under the name of ‘John’, who was a member of the union at Mt. Vernon whom I have known for a number of years, $10 because the boy was busted.  Another Jewish boy who made a touch I gave $5.  Then I went and took a taxi and went to the hotel.  I was dead tired.  When I got there it was around 7:30.  I undressed and called up Pete Burger.  He came over to my room and expressed his anxiety he had of my whereabouts during the time he had not seen me.  I told him the fact

1135

that I had been gambling and seeing the old boys.  Then I asked him whether he met the other fellows and there he told me that he had met them and he told them and the question was put up to him where I was, that I was out to see whether their papers are correct and I was on the way to Jersey to make my first contact with the people I was supposed to make contact with.  Wednesday morning I slept until noon.

          “Thereafter, I went to Pete Burger as far as Broadway where he left me to go to a place on 42nd Street between Fifth and Madison Avenue where he had bought on the previous day a camera.  He thought that the mechanism of the camera was not altogether perfect and he wanted to go back there to have it rectified.  I in the meanwhile went over to Weber and Heibronum on the corner of 34th Street and Broadway to buy some additional shirts and ties.  Then I went to a shoe store of Whitehouse and Hardy, corner 41st Street and Broadway, to buy myself a pair of black and white shoes.  After that I went back to the hotel, waiting the arrival of the clothes I had bought at Weber and Heibronum, as well as the suits we had bought a day before, on Monday afternoon, at Davis and Company, Fifth Avenue, New York.  (Aside: I bought two suits; the boy bought one)

          “That night I was so damned tired!  That night we had dinner at Dinty Moores, and Irish restaurant on {street illegible} off Broadway between Broadway and 8th Avenue.  (Aside: I took them to an Irish place, a

1136

Swedish place, always a different place.  I wanted him to feel at home.  I told him, Forget you are Dutch for once!) Thereafter, I went home and went to bed because I was very tired. 

          “Thursday morning I had breakfast in my room with Pete Burger where he told me that Richard Quintas and Henry Kraynor had found an apartment somewhere on 79th Street off Broadway, the exact street and number I do not know because I thought it advisable that he know the exact address and gave him strict orders that it was his business to keep the boys quiet and make them feel at home and also go to them and tell them that I am out to get contact; never let them know in any way that I go to Washington.  I also told them that I might leave this afternoon to Washington.  I could not wait any longer.  It worked on my mind so much.  Also the order I gave to the Agent of the FBI that Sunday night before when I mentioned Thursday or Friday forced me to take action.  I still did not know what to do with my money.  I at first thought I would get myself a little bag and check that bag somewhere in a bank.  So I went to a bank which is on 7th Avenue and 31st Street and asked one of the officials about renting a safety deposit box.  He asked me to go downstairs in the sub-basement where I was met by an official.  I expressed my wish where he told me that they only rent boxes by the year and they were small long boxes, certainly not enough for my use.  I told him that I don’t think

1137

I need that; that the box was not good for my use because I had a brief case with valuable papers.  So I went across the street to the Pennsylvania Station and bought a brief case for which I paid thirty-seven dollars and odd cents.  With that I returned to the hotel, counted my money.  I went back to the hotel.  No, before that I bought envelopes and rubber bands so that I could put the money neatly together.  Then I went back to the hotel.  As I got to the hotel, I went to the Manager, Mr. Well, and asked him if it was possible to make a reservation for me in Washington ever wire.  He told me that he would do so, which I paid for, and he told me that within about two or three hours I can expect a reply.  So I went upstairs to my room, packed my bag, put all the rest of my belongings of underwear and shirts into my old Gladstone bag with which landed.  I found out that the bag was still wet and sandy and was corroded from the salt water, so I got two papers, laundry bags, and put my belongings in the bags which then I put in the Gladstone traveling bag and put the bag over into the room of my buddy Pete Burger, after having asked the chambermaid to open the room for me.  I also put two pairs of shoes over there and two suits and an additional pair of pants.  Then I called the front office for a bell-hop, went downstairs in the lobby where I paid the bill up to Thursday, as well as the bill of my friend Burger.  [unreadable] me, he came and handed me

1138

the telegram from Washington from the Hotel Mayflower which told me that although they had a convention going on this coming week and, they would still take care of me at my arrival that same night. 

          “So I boarded the train at 2:30 at the Pennsylvania station and arrived a little bit before seven in Washington. 

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent; June 20, 1942:

          “I took a taxi to the Mayflower Hotel where I presented my telegram and was given Room 351 with the understanding that I could occupy this room until Monday night the 22nd at 6 o’clock.  I went upstairs to my room, cleaned up, and left the hotel, boarded a streetcar and went downtown to look for a place to eat.  I walked into a restaurant where to my surprise I was waited on by a boy who has also been a member of the Restaurant association in New York City.  I do not remember the name of the restaurant.  He showed sign of recognition which I denied at the beginning.  I just wanted to find out how far I could go until I could be a different person.  I could see the boy thought I was a conceited brat and he told me he knew me over two or three years ago as a waiter, as well as a hair dresser.  His name was Louis Martin (phonetic).  While I had dinner there I called him over after a while and I said, ‘Boy, if I tell you the fellow you thought I was.  You are

1139

correct, in identifying the fellow you thought I was, I mean.’  So I felt kind of lonely that night and I invited him to be my guest after he quits work.  I met this boy in front of the restaurant about a quarter after nine and we went to a cocktail room nearby that restaurant.  The name I do not recollect.  There we had a few scotches and during the course of the conversation I told him what I intend to do.  I know as a matter of fact that this little Jewish boy was born in Germany.  I asked him whether he knew his parents were still alive or not.  And he expressed his anxiety and belief that his parents were killed.  I had in front of me again another one of those sorrow cases and that made me overwrought.  I had to exchange my ideas for the purpose of learning his and rarely to get a constructive basis upon which I have to use when my fight shall begin.  I made him the proposition that I shall be successful to wage by fight to try and approach him so that he could be to some value to the organization I hoped to form because I knew of his ability to speak two languages.  That of German and English.  He also told us that he is an Alien Jew arrived, and to my best recollection he claimed to be married to an American girl and hoping that my mission was successful.  He gave me the following address: Louis Martin, 3911 Kansas Avenue, Washington, D. C.  Phone Number Georgia 3900.

          “I left him that night and went back to the hotel.  The next morning after breakfast I took hold of the

1140

telephone book and called up the Information Service of the United States Government- Executive 3300 – and asked the young lady to explain to me the difference between the FBI – Republic 7100 – and the Secret Service – National 6400.  She asked me what was the purpose of my visit.  I told her I wanted to pay a visit there.  I told her that I had to make a statement of military as well as of political value.  Then she told me (did not finish sentence).  I do not know very much about this race archeology, those Germans try to put into the minds of their people.  It aroused my passion.  It put me into a position of anger and this position of anger was too dangerous to the security of my own self.  I had to be cool and collected.  Besides I was shrewd.  I would fight them with their own weapons and that of falsehood.  They had it come for this matter and the fact that I resided and reside today in this free country and I can talk as a free person.  At the same time it shall be my work my desire in the future to prove that this acting was merely for every cost.  If I am unable to take part in this, my trip of coming here all that I have done and wish to do was futile.  I have no desire to use to lift no one.  The young lady asked me to call up the Adjutant General’s office and she gave me Extension public 5700, thereafter I got extension by some other party Extension 3241 and I think I called Colonel Grammer.  I called public 6700 I was given extension 3505 where

1141

a young lady told me that Colonel Grammer was not in.  I begged the young lady that Colonel Grammer should call me at the Mayflower, District 3000, Extension 351, as soon as possible.  I then called up Republic 7100 and called and got to talk to Mr. Traynor.  He asked me what I had to tell him.  I gave him an assured outline. 

          “As I had finished talking to Mr. Traynor, Colonel Grammer called me back.  I told him that I had already made arrangements with Mr. Traynor and that a man was on his way to get me.”

          Colonel Royall.  May it please the Commission, the pages that are now being read do not correspond with ours.  Apparently two pages have been skipped. 

          A Member.  Pages 57-A and 57-B were skipped. 

          The President.  The night turn over to one of the photo-static copier.  Which is what you have, is it not?

          Colonel Royall.  Yes, sir.  I just wanted to know which was correct.

          Colonel Alstine.  If the Commission please, the original signed copy is being read.

          Colonel Royall.  Yes.  I just want to know which is correct.

          A Member.  I suppose it will show up later on.

          Do you have pages 57-A and 57-B?

          Lieutenant Page.  No, sir; there are 57 and 58.

          A Member.  Well, that is the original.

          Lieutenant Page.  Right now I am on page 58. 

          The President.  [unreadable] any light on

1142

that at the moment?  We shall take a recess for fifteen minutes in order to have this matter straightened out. 

                    (At this time a short recess was taken.  The following then occurred:)

          The President.  Please proceed with the reading.

          Colonel Munson.  In answer to the question asked by the President, it appears from an examination of the record that the pages numbered 57-A and 57-B logically follow page 58.  More properly they should have been numbered pages 58-A and 58-B.  But if the statement is read in the order in which the pages appear in the original, it will be logical.

          The President.  You will please note that, and the reporter has noted it, so that it will be thoroughly understood.

                              (The reading of the statement of the defendant Dasch was resumed as follows:)

          “I promised to keep in touch with him either through Mr. Traynor or by myself.  I then sat down and wrote a letter to my buddy, Peter Burger, in which I told him that I had arrived in Washington, D.  C., in the best of health, had one night’s rest, and had just begun to meet in contact with the right party.  I told him also in the letter to keep his courage up, keep the boys together, not to lose them, and wait for further instructions.  I also told him that I mention to him of his being a Jewish refugee. 

1143

Therefore, green and bashful and begged him to take care of him.  That letter I give to the waiter-room service waiter- to mail by airmail as he came in to take the breakfast dishes out.  Then I started to dress.  Around 10:30 A. M. the agents from Mr. Traynor came. 

1144

          “The following remarks were made by George John Dasch aside to Mr. Traynor in the presence of Pauline Fogg, but which was not dictated:

          “This little red book with number in it I bought in New York City.  I bought this watch chain in 1934 in a store on 32nd or 33rd Street in New York City.  I wanted to have something to hold my keys on.  I know the American boys used to tell me that so and so have got that and are called monitors.  Marked it in the book, for I couldn’t remember the name.  Mr. Traynor asked him what the name ‘Francis Biddle’ was in the book for.  The little Jewish boy told me you have got to see Mr. Francis Biddle.

          “When I couldn’t reach Colonel Grammer and I told him I am sorry I had already made connections with you, Mr. Traynor, when called, and in case anything happened I would get in contact with him.  Then I sat down and wrote a letter.  While I was writing the waiter came back and I begged him to take this letter I had written to Peter Burger in N. Y. and that I had a good night’s sleep and rest and that I had just started to get in touch with the right people and I told him to keep his spirit up, his chin up.  I asked the waiter to mail letter.  That id is up there.  After all he is an enemy alien.  He knows it himself.  He was holding himself on me.  I am away now.  He told Mr. Weil this kid is a Jewish refugee.  When I met this boy for the first time he had his uniform on, in Germany.  He changed them, then came outside.  And was introduced to me.  Then and there I met him for the first time this young Pete Burger

1145

and this fellow named Scotty.  I took Scotty out and talked to him.  Whether he was dependable enough not to give me away.  ‘You know for what purpose you are selected from.  Have you the courage?  You have to take your life in your hands.’  We walked towards the lake and back.  He said ‘I have a lot of confidence in you.’  I said, ‘Boy you don’t know me.’  It was in the plan that each leader of a group shall have a man who is able to take his place.  That person should be trusted by us with little more news than others.  It was suggested to me by Lieutenant Kappe that this Peter Burger is the man.  I had him with me.  He was figured to be the assistant.  The night before we left Quines to eat in room with Lieutenant Kappe.  He approached me and said ‘Have you decided who is going to be your assistant?’  He said, ‘Who is it?’  I said ‘DeQuintas.’  ‘Pete Burger will never be my assistant because he is too much a boy and he has too much confidence in me.  I don’t like that kind of boy.’  I could not have very well given this kid Pete Burger to what I wanted him.  It would have been difficult.  This way he is right with me.  When he starts writing you will see it all come out.  You will see who he is when he starts writing.  He can’t express himself in English like I can, but does it in writing. 

          “That day in Quince when he made those statements which were directly against the Party System.  He left interment camp and he found in me a person he could trust.  I realized the danger and I told him ‘Keep you trap shut.’  If I had not been chosen he could have been

1146

the person to be here.  I would have told you about it all.  He would have too if I were not here.  A person who went through that much at the hands of a bunch of dirty bums go there and destroy something to which he has as a person no ill feelings against.  He has been a citizen of the United States.  Pete Burger served in the National Guard.  He was thinking of plan to get even.  The other two fellows, Quintes and Henry Kierling are a couple of Nazis who according to the very first Party have only one duty to perform and that is to listen to the Command.  They have not to question the sincerity, truthfulness, and correctness.  Their duty is to follow it.  Otherwise they die.  Not only themselves but their beloved ones.  They used that method on thousands and thousands of others.  Take history of rise of Hitler.  Roehn was one of the early fighters.  In 1934 it was a so-called ‘Nazi purge.’  A large bunch of people had to kill themselves because they did not follow instructions to the point.  It comes back to the sad story.  Thousands of unknown cases in same category.

          “This fellow Kelly (Kierling) when I met him the first time which was at a meeting of an organization for Germans who had lived in foreign countries.  There he was in uniforms of the Nazi officials.  I don’t know today the difference between SS, KK, and whatever so many things.  They have blue uniforms, red uniforms, and black uniforms.  Burger knows the purpose of everything.  He knows the difference of the fight which exists between the army and the SS.  He knows the difference which exists between big business and development I regards to

1147

the national housing.  He knows the dirt and the fights.  That is why I have seen in that kid is God sent.  Without us ever thinking about the six months ago here we are together now.  The same line the same object to revenge, the dirty work they are not only doing to our people in Germany but to the whole world. 

          “Dasch remarked, ‘Do you think I shall have the opportunity of meeting your superior Mr. Ladd?  And Mr. Hoover perhaps?  And the people who will understand me who are in the business of propoganda.?  Who I wish to correct.  I am sure they are making mistakes.  I know this by listening to their propaganda—weak.’  That will be my job because I know and I know I shall try to get people around who know other ones and then I will go over and attack them.  If we are able to shorten this lousy war we can only save the lives of Germans, Americans, English, but all other peoples.

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Rachel M.  Bowman, FBI, in the presence of Special Agent Duane L. Traynor: (June 20, 1942)

          “As far back as early February when it was my job to study all documents and evidence which had to be used and were of some value to lay the groundwork of this undertaking, the question was often raised of how much money each agent should have and how much the group should have.  All kinds of figures were quoted from all the other sides; Lieutenant Kappe often told me that he had his own ideas but that he has superiors which set

1148

ideas and those ideas were after all the ones which had most weight.  I consulted in this matter the leader of Group #2, Eddie Kerling, a number of items.  His estimates were in most cases sky high.  He spoke about hundreds of thousands of dollars.  He argued that if our work has to be carried out successful an additional amount of money has to be used for bribes.  Me as a person, my real self, was also interested to be able to get as much money as to possibly squeeze out of the German High Command, because I had intentions to use their own money to fight them.  Also I shall have the gratification and the satisfaction of knowing that I have robbed them out of money that they have undoubtedly swindled someone else out of.  I never stressed the money matter to a point because I thought this was one of the most dangerous ways to give yourself away.  I made it appear that I was leaning strictly upon their own experiences in Judgment to supply the individual agent, as well as the group, with sufficient money as they seen fit.

          “I, at that time, suggested to give each man $15,000.  Kerling suggested $25,000.  Lieutenant Kappe had a different idea.  He said at a time each agent will be given a set amount.  He didn’t quote no figures but that a working fund will be entrusted to each group leader.  He did not also state the amount of this working fund.  Out in Quentz, at training school, he quoted a new set of figures which I do not remember exactly no more or how high it was, but when the question was raised how to transport the money, I suggested that the money should be built into suitcases of American origin.  Therefore, I

1149

offered to them my old Gladstone bag and also a small zipper bag and requested the others to hand over all zipper bags they had.  We got altogether three zipper bags and my Gladstone bag together.  Those bags I brought over to Room 1025, Secret Service of the German High Command personally.  Kappe explained to me at that time in which way the money will be put into the bags. 

          “On the day of the 11th of May, I happened to remember that day very well because it was the day when I got back from my last vacation with the mother, we had been that morning at the Laboratory Department of the High Command to get our first instructions how to use secret ink.  We remained in that Laboratory until 12:00 noon where Lieutenant Kappe came down from his room to take us out to lunch.  We used to eat in a small restaurant near the Nollenpnatr.  On our way over there he disclosed for the first time the amount of money which was granted to each man by the German High Command and also to each group leader.  And for the first time he mentioned the following sums: ‘The Group Leaders will be entrusted with the sum of $50,000 each.’ This $50,000 was supposed to be used for operation purposes as we see fit.  Outside of that, each man will receive $9,000 of which $5,000 each group leader will have to carry and keep in his possession so that he will have a closer check upon his men.  Four thousand dollars ($4,000 will be given to each man.  He will carry that on his body in a money belt which was designed after I had made a rough drawing.  Each agent will carry that money in his money belt at the

1150

time of landing.  That little money belt was made of canvas goods and was to be carried around your body.

          “Outside of that each man was to receive $450 in cash.  Each $450 consisted of four, fifty dollar bills, two or three, twenty dollar bills, some ten dollar bills, two dollar bills and single bills.  When we left Berlin in a group on a train we had two separate compartments reserved for us by order of the German High Command which were to be recognized by a note on the door.  We had all this money with us.

          “(Q     Who gave you the money?        A        They put it in the bag.  Kappe had some guy do it that does things like that.  Kappe took care of having money put in the bags and gave us back the bags.  We merely carried them.  We had the eight wooden boxes with explosives in them.)

          “I really could not definitely know whether that money which was supposed to be in the bags was in the bags because in that Gladstone bag where the money was, it was in so cleverly fixed that I could not detect it with my eyes.  I even went over it with my hands.  I had to take it and out it.

          “(Q     Had the men been given their money belts?

          A        Not yet.)

          “Just before our departure onto the submarine I was given $1,780 in cash which I divided into 4 separate bundles of each $445.  This represented the cash money each man had to have when he landed.  All four money belts I kept in my Gladstone bag.  Those money belts I handed over to the boys on the night just prior our landing. 

1151

          “On the night of Tuesday, May 26, when Group #2 was getting ready to be put on the submarine they were handed over their money.  It happened that in that cash money some gold certificates which were issued in 1932 were among the money.  Little Hebert Haupt, who in this memorandum before was designated as a Chicago kid, raised the question that this is not today legal and lawful money in the United States.  I went into the room and I seen when some of the boys of Group #2 even then went as far to open up their money belts in order to see whether in that money were some more gold certificates.  I was asked by Lieutenant Kappe and also by the officer of the German Naval Intelligence in my opinion whether that money is legal, lawful money.  I argued on the following lines.  If that money is not legal tender then the banks from where you have got the money must know it.  Therefore, because the United States has got not only money in Germany but all over the world and if one form of currency is being taken out of circulation all the banks wherever they may be will be notified.  Therefore, I argued that money is perfect money.  I retired out of the room and said to myself ‘To Hell with it, as long as we get to America.’

          “Q      Do you know whether or not they took the gold tender along?  A     I don’t know.  I thought for Christ sakes let you have your own worries.  Let me get over here first.)

          “On the afternoon of Friday, May 29th, when my group was to be made ready to be put on the submarine, that night

1152

I was handed over the cash money to the amount of $1,780 which is equivalent to $445 each man.  As I was in the motion to separate each $445, I came across a number of single dollar bills which had a little round stamp in the back with two types of initials or letters.  The ones below were in Latin letters and the ones above were in Chinese or Japanese block letters.  I said to Lieutenant Kappe, ‘This money I don’t want.  You should be ashamed of having supplied us with such money like that.’  I went through all the bills and I gave back enough single bills that when I came back on the boat and I returned the bag in safekeeping with the Captain and when I counted the money over there was exactly four times $419 so we split it up that way.

          “The reason I turned down those one dollar bills was merely for self-protection.  I did not want to enter the United States leaving a trail which would lead me to confinement before I have the free opportunity to go and see the people I wanted to see.  That would be a foolish move after so many careful plans and sorrows and whatever you might call it.

          “When I came to the Hotel Governor Clinton I put that bag into my closet without the dirty belongings which I had already thrown them away somewhere on the road.  Where, I don’t know.  After I had told my buddy, Burger who I was or after we had come to an understanding I said to Peter Burger ‘Now let us find out how much money we have in the bag.’ I opened the bag and ripped the inside out and there underneath a part of the card

1153

board were $40,000 in 8 packages each containing $5,000 in fifty dollar bills each on each bottom of the suitcase.  ($80,000 together) As I was taking the money out I noticed that the suitcase had gotten wet from the landing.  I noticed that on some bills glue with which the stuff was glued on was sticking.  As a matter of fact, I still have seven, fifty dollar bills which have the glue right on them.  Today I am still in the possession of exactly $83,350 in my hotel room, of which $82,350 are in a little leather brief case, and an additional $1,000 in an envelope in a little valise.  Outside of that I have exactly $198.00 in currency on my body.

          “Q      How do you explain the fact that you have $80,000 and you actually should have had only $75,000?)

          “Now we come to the fact why I have in my possession the amount of $80,000.  Originally it was planned that each group leader shall have $50,000 to work with.  Outside of that he will hold in possession $5,000 of each man.  At the time when we left Berlin, Group #1 consisted of five men.  Five men which made an additional $25,000.  Outside that another $5,000 were put into my bag because the three leather zipper bags which Group #2 has in its possession were not large enough to hold the $70,000 which the group leader Kerling is entrusted with.  I was told of this fact by Lieutenant Kappe on the day of the 11th of May with the understanding that at the arrival in the United States I shall deliver it to them the $5,000 which belongs to Group #2.  When we came to Lorient and the fact was known that the fifth member of Group #1

1154

Svenson (Real name Joseph Schmidt, citizen of Canada) had contracted a venereal disease and it was impossible for him on the advice of the Naval Intelligence to make this trip, I asked Lieutenant Kappe how I should use the additional $5,000 which should rightfully belong to Svenson who was excluded from the trip.  He told me I should use it strictly at my own discretion.

          “(Q How much was in each of the three bags and who was to have charge of the bags and what did the bags look like?)

          “As far as I remember the leather zipper bags which are in the hands and care of Group Leader Kerling are three of number.  One of them used to be my own and is a small green bag made of canvas.  The two others are a little larger and I don’t recall the color of them.  All three bags were of canvas.  (If your Government wishes to get hold of that money it won’t be difficult)

          “While we were in closed session with the German High Command the question was often raised how we would dispose of the money when we arrived in America.  The suggestion was extended to us that we shall find reliable people who have a bank account with which that money could safely be deposited.  Lieutenant Kappe said to me, ‘Why George, you brother Earnest I just the person.’  In that respect I asked Group Leader Kerling how he intends to put the money into a safe place.  He did not at any time give me a definite answer on my question.  He excused himself and said, ‘I have to wait and see the correct situation.’  But the German high Command instruct-

1155

ed that each Group Leader shall tell each other where they keep the money.  This fact fits beautifully into my picture because it is now merely my business to remind Kerling and I shall show him my money in a fake hiding place in order that I may see his. 

1156

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Wilma Carney, F.B.I, in the presence of Special Agent Duane L. Traynor.

          “Therefore, we received at the training quarters in the Quentz the basic instructions how to make our own dynamite as well as capsules which will ignite by fuses and chemicals as well as by electrical ignition.  It was decided at the end of our lecture that both groups will be supplied with sufficient dynamite, fuses and other materials which we need for the purpose of carrying out our job.  We were shown and we received thorough explanation of the physical make-up and the construction of each dynamite and also were shown the technical makeup of the fuses as well as time fuses and everything connected with the work.  I as a person have given very little ear to all that was said, because I knew when the time would come and be able to land there and those boxes are brought into their hiding place the proper time will come when those boxes will be opened and shown and explained and proven what is in it.  I only know that the boxes which hide explosive are marked with red crosses, one box two and another box with one. 

          “Now what those two boxes exactly mean I did not know but I think I am able to get this knowledge out of Quintes or out of any one of the other boys.  I also told them last Sunday night when I met them at Grant’s Tomb on 116th Street and Riverside Drive, that it was a great danger to get those boxes into our hands.  They all agreed to that, therefore, I have told them now it is

1157

time to try and remember everything what we learned at Quents.  I openly admitted to them that I have no idea what we have learned because I have never had no intention of using it.  I only learned enough to be able to answer questions which were put to me.  Many a times I was at loss.  I tried hard to study because I was often thought that if I didn’t show enough interest this lack of interest would five them the idea that this guy George John Davis had no intention of ever using that.

          “I marked everything down in a book I had bought a year ago in San Francisco.  That book I took over to my room.  When we left Quentz we were asked to destroy every little bit of evidence we had in regards to what we have learned and which we have put down on paper.  I have told that I have done this but that book I had in my room vack in Berlin in a hiding place.  That book I also carried along as far as Paris.  There in Paris when that question was raised again if anything is found of evidence which can be carried against us, ‘I have you right away taken off and shot’ Kappe said.  I got kind of cold feet and said to myself, this plan has worked perfect up to now, now please use your noodle and do away with it because I’m quite sure that this fellow Svenson (real name Joseph Schmidt, citizen of Canada) has proven to me during the time of lectures in the Quants school that he knows the things from A to Z and I thought this, he will in due time tell me everything when I need it to present it.  Now that this boy Svenson is not with us, I intend to get from Quintas

1158

and evidence from everyone which I can possibly get together.  I am quite sure what one doesn’t know the other will remember and this way I am able to get all possible evidence and facts together.  That is why I gave the boys last Sunday night instructions to try and remember their formulas and jot them down on notes and to put the notes down so that they themselves can read them but not the next person and in due time I can copy them.  I refused to back up the reason of this question.  I told them that it is impossible to get our boxes back but in the same time, I know the day would come when we will be asked what we have learned in so far as formulas are concerned in Quentz.  In one box and those are mostly fuses, chemical electrical and time fuses and clock fuses or time fuses. 

          “Furthermore, the same amount of boxes with the same contents is in possession of Group Two—where they have buried the boxes I do not know, that is also my business to find out.  I have a lot of work to do.  But this has to done in a very slow, sure way.

          “Q      You hid your boxes in the sand, was that your idea or instructions received?

          “A      That was instructions to hide them away from our landing place in a safe place only to come back after a certain length of time with an automobile possibly and get them away from there and bring to a safe hiding there, after they have established and found one.  Maybe that hiding place is in the Blue Ridge Mountains or maybe in the Catskills.  The question

1159

of establishing a hiding place, the form of hiding place was very often raised and discussed.  Very often the idea was arranged that one of the other men who had technical background would open up an automobile repair shop somewhere in a n isolated spot, and this automobile repair shop would then be used as a hiding place for all the dynamite and all the materials for your use.  Some other time the idea was approached that one of the boys he pointed out to have a farm—some abandoned farm—and that would be used for the same purpose.  Also the question was raised of how we as individuals or in groups could prove the FBI in case we ever fell or any one of them fell into hands, what kind of work we would be doing at this time.

          “At that time I made the suggestion that I shall form a sales agency of some kind and get in contact with national commission houses and would use their products for sale.  This way it would not only give us an evidence of being employed but also a wonderful blind to move about.  All those facts I have already diagnosed at the first memorandum which I was asked to write way back in December or November, 1941.  I had to prove to them in my own way that I had my heart and soul in it so at that time I did not no whether I was really considered for that kind of work, whether I had the ability.  I had to show ability, no only ability of doing practical work, but also organization work, understand, all that I had to

1160

prove in order to use to get going.

          “Q      Was Group Two to bury its explosives in the sand?

          “A      Same way, and to come and get it same way.  Whether they intended to do so I do not know.  What they are doing today, where they are now, I do not know.  Group two, I shall meet the leader of Group Two.

          “Before I disclose the meeting place and time I wish to state that for the security of grabbing those guys and grabbing the whole bunch, I should be allowed to exercise some of my thoughts because I think I know those people, I know of their methods and I know their ways to go about them.  Even the smallest suspicion which they see now will not only mean the impossibility of grabbing them but will eventually mean that they know me, who I am in person, and that will not only endanger my life, what to me means very little, but will endanger the life of my parents.  Therefore, I would like to have a promise by hands.  I would like to have promise by Mr. Traynor that this wish is furnished consideration and after having received his promise, by shakings hands on it, I am now telling you where I will meet Eddie Kerling.  We shall meet for the first time on July 4 between 12 and 2 o’clock in the grill of Hotel Gibson in Cincinnati.  If I am unable to meet them at this time we shall both try to make contact at same evening July 4 between six and eight o’clock.  If this date has not been successful or we should not have met we shall meet the following Sunday and the following

1161

Sunday thereafter and the last Sunday in the month of July on the same place at the same time.

          “Q      Why was Hotel Gibson selected?

          “A      It was selected as the best place for the following reasons: 1- it gives us a chance to be away from the coast line; 2- it was in the middle of both territories because I have told them that time when I reach the United States I shall go right down south for vacation somewhere in the West Virginia or down in the Virginia.  I did that for the reason that I wanted the boys of my group not to know what I am doing.  I backed this up furthermore by telling them way back already in Paris when we had last conference that upon arrival in United States after they had found them a week or two weeks I shall send each of them away to hotel, I am going tell them.  They shall be all by themselves in order to be secure, to get the self assurance back.  But this was the reason—I am not worried about the self assurance.  I wanted to be able to work alone because I had figured out that was how I was able to put the thing across.  The boys in New York with the exception of Burger they have lived in New York for the greatest part of their stay in the United States.  They feel at home in New York.  That is why I have told them last Sunday night, ‘Boys, stay right here and please don’t go into section where you have been known.  At least not before this coming week is over before I got back from Jersey.’

          “Q      Do they have some contact with Hotel Gibson?

1162

          “A      No, I’ve suggested that one.  I suggested many times the Penn-Alto Hotel in Pittsburgh, but there is no connection, nothing.  It is merely that I happen to know Cincinnati and this boy Kerling knows Cincinnati.  Also a meeting place was suggested in Chicago, that we meet in some hotel, then Cleveland and Philadelphia, and finally we came to Cincinnati, and that is all mine.

          “Q      Do the boys in either group know the meeting place?

          “A      No one except Kerling.  In my group none of the boys know that I shall meet that person at that time there and then.  What relation Kerling has to his own boys this I cannot definitely state, understand.  But he is likewise instructed to keep everything in regard to meeting places straight to himself.  So, therefore, I must assume that he himself only knows it and no one else except just you gentlemen in this room.

          “The following statement was dictated by George John Dasch to Ellen E.  Harrison in the presence of Special Agent Duane L. Traynor on June 20, 1942:

          “GROUP 2

          “Eddie Kerling is a boy who weighs about one hundred fifty-five pounds and is a decidedly Irish type.  I figure him to be about five feet eight and on-half inches tall.  He is a very snappy dresser, has a quick short speech, but at close observation has a decidedly German accent.  His hair is blond.  To my best recollection his age is either thirty-four or thirty-five.  He has been in the United States since 1927.  He resided

1163

mostly in the City of New York but he has been in Florida.  He worked as a chauffeur and in a baggage house.  He has always been a paying member of the Bund since its early days.  He returned to Germany after an unsuccessful trial with a bunch of other boys of German descent who were all connected with the Bund.  This was in 1940 and they traveled to Germany in a small sail boat approximately forty feet in length.  That boat was examined not only in the harbor of the City of New York but also somewhere on the coast of Virginia and then again at Miami Beach by officers of the FBI.  In Berlin I had seen Berlin newspaper clippings to the effect that American newspapers carried a headline story which pointed out that a bunch of Nazis were trying to go across the ocean.  Kerling and Herman Nicholas (whose correct last name I cannot remember) sailed on the first United States export line ship from the harbor of New York into Lisbon in 1940.  Kerling sailed on a German passport.  I believe he was born in Weesbaden, Germany.  I have been exhibited the fingerprint card of Eddie Kerling and recognize the signature thereon.

          “The fingerprint card of Herman Neubauer was exhibited to me and I immediately recognized him to be the Herman Nicholas previously referred to herein.  His fingerprint card was taken on December 7, 1939, and gives his age as 29; date of birth, February 5, 1910; born in Hamburg, Germany; height, six feet; complexion, fair; hair, dark brown; Weight, 175 Ibs; eyes, brown;

1164

build, medium.  He has below his left ear a little scar which he received in Russia.

          “On being questioned by Mr. Traynor if I knew of any relatives of Neubauer or any of the other agents in America, I want it to be known that it was too much of a dangerous undertaking for me to go so deep into the past history of each agent as this would undoubtedly have aroused suspicions.

          “Herby Haupt was born in Stettin, Germany and immigrated tot his country with his parents when either three or six years old.  His parents resided for the most part in Chicago, Illinois.  I believe I have heard the statement from Haupt that his parents are citizens of this country.  He went to public and high school in Chicago.  I believe it was Lane High School.  He had been a member of the Junior League of the Bund.  He took part in all its activities.  I shall now relate his story as he told it to me the first time I met him which was some time early in March of this year.

          “I was sitting in the office of Der Kaukakus when Lieutenant Kappe called me from general headquarters and told me that a young boy by the name of Herby Haupt had arrived in Bordeaux and Germany with a blockade breaker from Tokyo on the 21st, 22nd, or 23rd of December, 1941.  Kappe told me that I should cross-examine him and determine his abilities because Kappe had him earmarked for our undertaking.  When the boy came up to see me I got the impression that he was what is generally known in the United States as a ‘drug store cowboy.’  I asked

1165

him about America and found out that the type of English he spoke was typical of a street boy.  At that time I asked him where he came from and he said he had just come from Stettin, Germany where his grandmother resided.  I don’t remember whether his grandmother was the mother of his father or of his mother.  He told me also that the main reason he came to Germany was to become a member of the German Flying Corps.  I don’t know how he was approached by Kappe, or through what channels Kappe had reached him.  I couldn’t ask those questions of him at that time as it would undoubtedly have been a giveaway.  I thought the boy could be used as he had the qualifications.

          “After I had called Kappe and told him that the boy would be all right, Kappe instructed me to send the boy back to Stattin because it was quite early and not yet time to go to the training quarters at Quentz.  I sent him back to Stettin over the Easter holidays to be with his grandmother, I told him to tell them that he had been in Berlin to investigate his possibilities of getting into the Flying Service and that he had to return after the holidays.  I advised him to keep quiet and say nothing about what he had heard.  I made him sign a statement, the forms for which I had in my possession.  I did that on the advice of Lieutenant Kappe.  I did not see Herby Haupt any more until I believe it was the 14th day of April one day before the school started at Quentz.

          “While at Quentz I studied this boy very closely.

1166

I sat with him at the same table during mealtime and tried hard to determine his individual makeup, but I must admit that he is a big question mark to me.  For his age, which is only twenty-two years, he is a very shrewd boy.

          “At the time we were at Quentz it was the plan of the German High Command to use kayaks for landings.  Each kayak has room for two men.  They were delivered on the proving grounds at Quentz by a group of soldiers of the German Army.  We learned how to take the boats apart and put them back together, and finally took them out on the water.  This was part of our training course.  All of us were of the opinion that it would be extremely dangerous to try to land with those little boats, especially when the surf is high.  We all expressed that belief to Lieutenant Kappe.  He merely said that was why we were there and that we would have to take chances.  He said that when we put our weight into them and the weight of the two boxes the boats would be keep in the water and would be easier to navigate. 

          “I don’t know how long it was we were practicing with those boats, but one day when I and my group happened to be in the laboratory for the purpose of receiving additional instructions, one of the teachers came in and said that one of the boats had turned over in the middle of the lake and the boys were struggling in the water.  I raced down to the lake and saw Lieutenant Kappe in a boat in the middle of the lake and I saw two boys holding on to it.  The water was pretty cold

1167

then because when we arrived at Quentz, perhaps two weeks before the time of this incident, part of the lake was still frozen.  Another thing to the disadvantage of the boys in the water was the fact that the uniforms at Quentz consisted of heavy military clothes, heavy boots and uniforms which at one time belonged to the Polish Army.  These uniforms had been dyed blue in color.  In the meantime, while those two boys were struggling in the water, a large rubber boat used for training purposes and which could hold at least twenty men was manned by the remaining fellows, including instructors as well as some of the officers who were there for instructions.  They did their utmost to reach the middle of the lake.  They finally got there and pulled in the boys.  I stood and watched from the shore.  When they finally came back I learned that the boys were Kerling and young Haupt.  They were blue-white.  Kerling had the presence of mind while struggling in the water to pull off his heavy boots and pants.  Haupt lost his head and almost drowned.  When he came out he was black and blue.  We took off their clothes, rubbed them with alcohol and gave them some alcoholic beverages to drink and put them to bed.  The next day neither of them showed any sign of their experience of the day before.  To our satisfaction, the original plans to use these boats for landing were abandoned.  Kappe went back to Berlin the next day and on the same night he called me on the phone from Berlin

1168

and said that the German High Command, after having listened to the story of this incident, reached an agreement with the Navy Department that the crew of the U-boat would land us with their own boat.

          “(There were three ways of landing: First, in a sail boat; second, with the kayaks; and third, in a boat put out from the U-boat, which was the last plan.)

          “To come back to Herby Haupt, I wish to state that he is a romantic type of boy who left Chicago, according to his own words, a few weeks before the National Registration Act became law.  He left Chicago, traveled through the Middle West, and went into Mexico.  He entered Mexico near Laredo over the International Bridge.  According to his own statement, I am quite sure, he was not in possession of any passport.  I believe the only identification paper he carried was a driver’s license.  In Mexico City, he went to the German Consulate or Embassy where he was put into a group of people, some of whom had come from nearby countries and from Canada.  I do not know how long he remained in Mexico, but while there he met Svenson whose German name is Joseph Schmidt.  According to Haupt and Svenson, they were approached by the German agents in Mexico City to do military acts of sabotage.  I could not determine where these acts of sabotage were to occur or when they were to be initiated.  Some time later they were taken via plane to a harbor on the Mexican Pacific coast where they boarded a small Japanese

1169

freighter and sailed to Yokohama.  From Yokohama they went to Tokyo where they reported to the German Embassy.  I have been there myself so I know just how they were treated.  They both stayed at the Taiti Hotel and received daily allowances (the amount of which I do not know) from the German Embassy.  Herby Haupt was put on a German steamer which sailed out of Kobe, breaking through the blockade and arriving after eighty-three days in Bordeaux, France.  Haupt told me that he had to work on board the ship and since he had had optical experience in Chicago, he was assigned to take care of all the binoculars on the ship.  He claimed that the binoculars were very poor and that they were old Japanese binoculars.  When he arrived in Germany he was given the Iron Cross, Second Class because he has sighted a steamer while being at the look-out post.  Their job was to avoid being seen by other ships.

          “Haupt is about 5’8” or 8 1/2” tall, weighs around 150 or 155 lbs., has decidedly wavy dark hair and green eyes.  He is a clean-cut looking boy.  He goes for flashy things.  He wears a big silver Mexican ring with Indian signs inscribed on it. 

1170

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Donald Oden, FBI, on June 20, 1942, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent:

          “One of the members of Group 2 is a boy whose German name I do not recollect at this time.  He was born in Gelsenkirchen, Germany, and he is about 35 years of age.  He is decidedly stout boy.  He had a beer belly.  I figure him to be about 5’8” tall.  He has a high face and a high forehead, half bald.  He has been a member of the Bund for a number of years.  With pride he stated to me very often of his participation in the Bund movement.  He lived in New York City but he has traveled all over the United States.  He has worked for General Motors, as well as Henry Ford.  He is a mechanic by trade.  He also lived in Hammond, Indiana, for a length of time.  I know this fellow.  I got to know this fellow the first time in my life when he sailed with me last year from San Francisco over to Honolulu and then to Germany.  He is a single person.  When he sailed from here he came out of New York.  Q. He worked for General Motors in Detroit?  A. Yes Q. Where was he active in the Bund?  A. In New York.  Q. How did you contact him again?  A. The boy himself is a very serious kind of boy and I am responsible that he is along this trip.  Because that night on the night when I met Keirling with Kappe at a meeting of an organization of Germans who had lived in foreign countries.  There I met the boy again for the first time since I left him on May 13, 1941, in Berlin shortly after our arrival in Berlin.  I spoke

1171

to him that night for about a half hour.  The next day Lieutenant Kappe asked me what I thing of this boy, whether he would be a prospect for our undertaking.  I told him I was quite sure he was the right type of man.  I thought I might as well take along a single man because I had to take someone along anyhow.  ----------(I missed about 3 sentences before I noticed my Stenotype ribbon wasn’t working)

          “Q      Did you know him by the name of Thomas?  A. No sir.  I never knew his name at all.  The only way that I was able to know any one of the boys that went across with me was that on the way over on the Japanese boat we had a group picture taken and the way we sat all names were put down and also the addresses of all the boys were copied and put on each.  We at that time formed a club.  I corresponded with a number of boys which came back with me and I think I also wrote him a Christmas card because the time when we entered Germany that morning on the 13th of May, I happened to talk to the boy for about an hour.  It was a heart to heart talk in regard to Germany.  He wanted to do our part and our duty.  At that time I was just as sincere.  The real name of Thomas I am quite sure I will get when I get to New York and approach the kids and I will use a way to get it without arousing any suspicion.  I know that much-that the kids have faith in me. 

          “Q      Talking about Group 2, I would like to get some picture as to how their landing details were

1172

worked out; who selected the place for them to land—

          A      Way back in the German High Command it was decided.  After Keirling and myself had been designated as group leaders, the question was approached which part of the American coast do you know best?  I as a person told them that I knew the coast of Long Island or the coast of northern New Jersey and the Jersey Highlands best and Keirling claimed that the best place of landing would be the coast of Florida.  So I didn’t object.  It was his business.  Those landing places were undoubtedly known by Lieutenant Kappe and the German High Command and I take it for granted that those people have maps and they know exactly how those beaches are laid out, how they look, their structural makeup, etc.  It was strictly up to the High Command to give the okay to the landing places. 

          “Q      How do you know where they (group 2) landed?

          “A      Because I was told by the intelligence officer on the day when we got the map out.  He told me, ‘That is where you are going to land (pointing out spot on map to Mr. Traynor), and that is where they are going to land.’  Jacksonville Beach

          “Q      Was it the intention of the landing party to land as close to town as possible?

          “A      No, a little way from town.

          “Q      Was any distance suggested?

          “A      No, nothing.  It was to be a safe distance. 

                    “(I was out of the room for a moment) Way back in Berlin I had a conversation with

1173

Keirling and I asked him in which way he wished to transact the landing and how he was going to go about after they landed.  I told him at that time it was necessary to express our views and have our plans made known so that if there is any mistake in his or mine we shall correct it to each other.  There he told me that he intends to split up his group into two parties, each representing two men.  The first group will be headed by him and the fellow John Thomas.  They will go into Pittsburgh.  He might even go into New York.  How long he will be in New York I do not know.  But out of that New York story I reasoned that he was anxious to approach his wife who happens to be in New York City.  The other group headed by Herman Nicholas, alias Herman Neubauer, together with a little boy, Herby Haupt, were to go to Chicago immediately.  We agreed that on the date of our first meeting in Cincinnati we will exchange to each other the exact whereabouts of all the men in each group, our experiences, mistakes, and successes we have had in each group and the other group as well.  Now two men know exactly of the whereabouts of all our men.  In other words, I would know where his men were and he would know where my men were.

          “Q      What was he going to do with his explosives?

          “A      He had to carry his explosives inland where, after they found a safe spot, they were to bury them in the ground and then in due time after they had found a better place, go back there and get them.

1174

          “Q      He intended to pick them up after he went to Pittsburgh?

          “A      No, no, no, come back later, maybe a month later.

          “Q      I wanted your reasoning as to the fact that they landed either Saturday or Sunday.

          “A      While we were on our voyage, it was told to me by the Captain that he had contacted the other boat; that they were at that time only 200 miles away from us.  Later on, in order to be sure that we were landing first, I asked the Captain, ‘Have you heard of the other boat again?’  He said no.  But I put the question point blank at him again and that was on the day of our landing, ‘Do you think that this boat is landing today already or tomorrow?’  He said, ‘No, that is impossible.  Their route is much longer than ours and I do not know in what speed they are approaching and I do not know what weather they are going through.  Therefore, I cannot give a definite answer.’  I said to myself, ‘Now it’s Friday evening.  We land tomorrow morning.  I don’t think they will land before Monday or Tuesday night; perhaps at the earliest date, Sunday night.’  I am quite sure that when I meet this fellow Keirling that he will verify my figuring that they didn’t land before Monday or Tuesday, June 15th or 16th.

          “Q      Was the plan to use any explosives by either group prior to meeting in Cincinnati?

          “A      No.  You must go to work.  No, sir.  It was

1175

decided that both groups should take at least two months, if possible three months.  It was laid on our heart, ‘Boys, take your time.  If you don’t do anything in the next six months, it is strictly up to you.’ In this respect I spoke to Eddie Keirling and I have told him I think I must agree with Lieutenant Kappe.  We have got to be very, very careful and slow and lay a good foundation before we are able to do anything, and he agreed with me.  I am quite certain that those boxes are still buried somewhere on the Florida coast near Jackson Beach today.  And I am quite sure that those boys are just about in Chicago, just about getting straight and waiting for further instructions.  And Keirling undoubtedly goes after his business.  He might go again after business which I do not know.  I pointed out to you before that it is my sincere belief, him being a party member, understand, that he was told more about the so-called approach of people, because they know him.  He knows.  It is no use telling me anything about it because I wouldn’t know.  It was made understood that ay approach we made by anyone of the members of the group, that could only be made after the group leader has given his okay to it.  He has got to know it.  This was made clear after I had raised the question to Lieutenant Kappe that when these boys go over, they go to their Nazi followers in U.S.A. and start talking.  And I said, ‘It is no use; you got to tell those boys to give us the right

1176

that if they got to someone, I want to know it.’  I noticed that the Kappe looked at me very funny at the time when I told him about it.  I thought he had doubt in his mind or asked himself, ‘Why does this fellow want to know that?’  Really, he looked at me in such a funny way.

          “Q      What about the territory that they were to operate in?

          “A      The southern part of the United States was Group 1.  Their territory was the State of New York and Pennsylvania.  Their job consisted of laying low the aluminum plants up in Niagara Falls and Creolite plant in Philadelphia. 

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg Federal Bureau of Investigation in the presence of Special Agent Duane L. Traynor on June 20, 1942:

          “Q      I would like to get some descriptions of Henry Kanard or and John Quintas in Group 1.

          “A      John Quintas is a man of thirty-two years of age.  He is about five feet nine.  He has a small face, altogether gray wavy hair and could easily pass as a man of forty years of age.  Q. How much does he weigh?  A. About 145 pounds.  Just like me.  Very often people say, ‘Are you brothers?’  His eyes are blue.  He has a little hook nose-a Jew nose.  He could either pass a Jew or a Latin type.  He is very swarthy.  That is why he became in the story a Portuguese.  You would never think he was a Dutchman.  Q. First of all,

1177

where were you born?  A. In Germany.  He was born in Berlin.  Came to the United States, to my best recollection, in 1926 or 1927 and resided in this country up until 1938.  Q. Where did he live?  A. He lived with his wife in New York City.  Before he was married, he lived in Chicago and Florida.  Q. What does he work at?  A. The boy is a mechanic by trade.  He has been a member of the Bund in New York City.  Q. Quintas is his right name?  A. Querling is his right name, I think.  Might be Richard, his first name.  Q. Do you know how he was connected with the Bund?  A.  I don’t know.  You must not forget that I had to gain confidence with my men.  I could not go ahead and ask questions.  It would arouse suspicion.  I had to go with them.  I had to show them that my heart was in it.  This is something I had to do.  Q. Where is his wife?  A. His wife and one child are back in Germany.  He was employed in the People’s Car Works in Drauneschweig (they worked together in factories).  He brought his wife and child to his parents-in-law to Wurzburg before he left.  (Another thing it covered the other boy also what I am going to say.  It was time in February when Kappe told me he was going to Drauneschweig.  They have no papers here.) John Kaynor, his real name I do not know.  I couldn’t tell you.  John Henry is 35 years of age, heavy built fellow about 5 foot 8½ , weighs around 170 pounds, has light blond thin hair and has a mark right in the middle of his forehead which he constructed

1178

while working in a plant when a piece of iron from the machines flew into his head over the right eye.  He is a typical German.  His speech is that of a German, decidedly German accent.  He is what I would classify him as a typical German spy.  Dumb and big mouthed-if he is safe, yellow as a coward when in danger.  I though he was one of the fellows once who told him something he would go through with it.  Q. What are the color of his eyes and his trade.  What is that?  A. I don’t know.  He worked as a chauffeur.  But he lived most of the time during his stay in the United States right in the city of New York for about 12 years.  He has been a Bund member also.  He lived here in the United States until 1938 when he returned to Germany.  He has employed by the People’s Car Works at Drauneschweig. 

          “Sometime early in February, Lieutenant Kappe told me that this coming weekend he shall make a trip to Drauneschweig in order to see two clients which were considered for this undertaking.  When he got back the following week he told me his mission was very successful.  They had a nice gathering and a joyful time with plenty of whiskey.  There I wish to state that the day in Germany we have a whole organization of all people which have resided in foreign countries at one time or another such as America, England, etc., and this Lieutenant Kappe has been in the U.S.A. before the war and he got back in Germany in 1936.  He has been here before 1923.  He then has

1179

sent through the Party to this organization.  This is more or less a reservoir to my way of reasoning of all the people they might use some day to their advantage in the respective countries in which they have lived.  I take it for granted that just as Kappe takes care of people in America we have the same type of people in Russia, England, Turkey, and India, etc.  All within that group.  All others, those boys, they had to give names and addresses of boys which they know in Germany which they also know in America, which would be willing or could be approached to go for future groups.  In that respect, Kappe told me that another group would follow us and that would be group #3 headed by Dempsey.  He will leave sometime in September.  Other groups are going to be put together but those groups have nothing to do with us.  I think they have another object to attack.  The question of attacking the airplane industry in the U.S.A. was very often raised.  Furthermore, Kappe said the following, ‘If other groups will go to America for the purpose of attacking the light metal industry so that they will know the ins and outs to the last degree.’  He admitted that our instruction was only a rough outline to merely get us going to that we formed the foundation of a bigger group and we were supposed to keep in contact with them at this address which I have in that handkerchief.  (He indicated a handkerchief on Mr. Traynor’s desk)  They analyzed that news they received from us.  I don’t know their plan. 

1180

One thing is certain, that is that this fellow Kierling and De Quintas, when I met them the first time at Quentz they came there for the sole purpose of learning how to operate telegraphy.  Only at the time when they were assigned to my groups because Kierling and Quintas were friends so I had to keep them together-Dick Quintas.  I raised the question to Lieutenant Kappe why they abandoned idea of them in learning to use telegraphy. 

1181

          “He told me at the time that the Navy Intelligence office decidedly was opposed to that.  The reason why they have opposition is, that I know as a matter of fact that they themselves use people in this country and send them in this country to do the very thing.  They did not want to have any interference because one of the radio men in the submarine told me two or three days before we landed when asking after I was unsuccessful to get any details from the Captain about the whereabouts of the submarine I approached the radio—and I asked him in a very casual manner, ‘Why don’t you get any news from my friends in the other sub.’  He said ‘No not that but we get news from another one.’ He says, ‘Don’t you know there is another one making a landing party.’  I reasoned that if there was any other landing party originating from the other German High Command I would know it.  I did not know what the Navy High Command was doing.  This German Naval Commander not only went along as a man to introduce Lieutenant Kappe to the Navy officials but at the same time he has been there to send off a group of Navy boys just as we were coming.  Three big landing parties.  He knew a lot about landing.  He was telling me about the others landing.  (Aside: I spoke to a soldier who used to live at my landlady’s place prior to the time of his service and came up on a furlough and was a Nazi.  How could you expect him to be different?  I felt his tooth a little bit.  That was last fall.  He has been with a supply outfit supplying the air force and I told what a hard struggle they had in Russia.  And he said ‘Wait until spring and it will trash it out of

1182

them.’  I said ‘That is a lot of work you have over there.’  He said, ‘You have no idea what is being wasted.’  Furthermore, I will try and put in my speeches, I have tried to get names of persons may in England or elsewhere and send greeting back to their mothers or fathers etc.  Even those that haven’t heard.  They will set there daily until the name will be mentioned.  But that name will be mentioned after my program is over.  That is a sales talk.  No, that is a sales boosting method.  Q. One more description of Group #1.  Peter Berg.  A. His name is Ernest Peter Burger.  He was born in Augsburg, Germany, the son of a physician, Dr. Burger.  He went to public and high school and college.  In his early life as a young boy, he took part in the early creation of the Nazis.  He still tells me today that at the beginning of the Nazi party it was something related to the social movement which wanted to create out of this course which followed the downfall of Germany in the last war which would add something.  That is his claim.  Why he left the party or that surround, which wanted him and came to this country—in 1926, I don’t know.  He went out to Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  Whether he has relations there, I don’t know.

          “He served on two different outfits with the National Guard.  I have seen his honorable discharge papers in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and I thing the second one in Detroit, Michigan.  He has also his American citizenship papers with him.  He became a citizen in 1933, I think.  I don’t know.  The fact remains that he claims a short

1183

time after, whether a month or a year or years, he returned to Germany, I think in 1934, at the advice of friends, also members of the party, who had meanwhile reached the position at the growth of the party.  They asked the kid to come back and when he came back he was given a chance in the Office of Information (word sounded something like Reichatraff).  I think the best that he should be telling his own story because my own might contradict him.  His record, the fact that he was in interment camp, convinced me that he was against the brutality of the Nazis.  And I believe he is a human being.  Q. What is his height?  A. 5 feet 7 inches.  Q. Weight?  A. 150 pounds.  Q. Color of hair?  A. Dark brown, I think.  Yes, dark brown.  Q. Color of his eyes?  A.  Don’t know.  But he has on his right or left hands or both burned marks from what I don’t know, but also on his left or right knee or both he has marks.  He has been in an automobile accident.  I think it was here in the States.  I noticed him dressing one day and I noticed those scars.  Scars on the hands and legs also.  Q. Is he married?  A.  Yes, his wife is in Germany.  No children.  Q. Any relatives in this country?  A. I don’t know.  I believe so.  Because in the beginning I made my real identity known to him, he stated he wanted to go to Milwaukee.  Q. What is his occupation?  A. He is a technician.  I don’t know along what line.  When he came to Germany he came to Reichsprease.  I think they call it here the Information Department, no secret information, or the newspaper.  The kid was used as a reporter by the German government.  He claimed what he knows a log about people.  He mention-

1184

ed to me names which to me did not mean anything but he put his story in such a concrete way that he knows a lot.  He wanted to tell me the story, but I didn’t have a chance to listen to all he had to tell.  I said ‘You have to come to Washington to remain in the hotel and be ready at any time I sent you a wire and you can come down here. 

1185

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Rachel W.  Bowman, FBI, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Special Agent: (June 20, 1942)

          “In regards to communication, I have an undercover address in Lisbon.  At this time I do not know the correct address but it is marked on that little handkerchief.  I was instructed in Berlin to use this address for the purpose of communicating to them all the additional changes which I happened to observe while I am here and these changes are necessary for the camouflage papers the groups which are here are supposed to follow.  Furthermore, whether the landing was successful and the landing spot satisfactory.  Furthermore, I should use this to notify them in case we run short of ammunition, I might call it, or explosives and other material supplies and in case we need any more money that should also be told this way.  Also it was suggested to forward in this way correspondence to disclose to them in case any one of the members should have fallen down on his oath so that they can take the necessary step or steps.  Furthermore, the exact location of additional new built industrial centers in the United States which are manufacturing war materials.

          “I was instructed to write to this cover address with secret ink, the formula of which I was taught and the way to use it on the back of ordinary business letter.  I should always write the same letter at least three or four times each with a different business hand and signed always with a different signature but always having the first two letters in my last name in that signature in the last name.  I was also told to use this

1186

coverup address until such time a new agent has arrived in this country.

          “It was also decided to find a way to write among us.  Also we should write in secret ink and I was right from the beginning against it also so was this fellow Quitas.  But we made one definite plan in which we will address each other and that is as follows.  We shall always address by starting ‘My dear Eddie’, or whoever he may be, because if in case anyone of the agents falls into the hands of the FBI and under cross-examination is forced to expose some of the other fellows and must go ahead and write this fellow to come and see him, he will undoubtedly be forced to write a letter to this fellow and the letter will be addressed ‘Dear Eddie’ and the moment Eddie gets that letter it shows it was written under force.  That was also one of my great ideas which went over with a gang.

          “This boy Leiblt according to the testimony of young Herby Haupt, told him personally on or about the first week in May, that he believed Germany will go over Lisbon to American.  This young Leiblt is 22 years of age and is an acquaintance of Herby Haupt.  He made a statement that when he gets to American he will join the Air Service and fight Germany.  His father is employed also as a Nazi.  (His father is still today in the Nazi organization itself as an office, exactly what part I can not tell you.  He is in Stuttgart)

1187

          “Dr. Risenbrown is an American who works for the Ministry of Propaganda in a department called the Anti-Commintern.  I happened to meet this person being introduced by Prince Bon Lippe.  Prince Bon Lippe was it in the United States for a period of over 16 or 17 years.  He has been out in the Middle West and up until 1938 was represented as a German agent, or registered as such with the State Department.  Prince Von Lippe was a coworker with me in the foreign office.  He introduced me to Dr. Risenbrown where he was requested to write a few speeches of propaganda.  This propaganda was about the ever growing influence of the Jews in America.  A great number of people wrote on the same subject.  I myself wrote four articles.  I wrote in the first article the influence of the Jewish race in the American labor movement, the second one in the political life, the third one in the economic life and the fourth one press, radio, moving pictures and the power they exercise over the press through their advertising.

          “I, personally, talked on two of these articles and then recorded on records.  I did that purposely so I was able to listen to my own voice over the radio.  To my surprise I could not recognize myself.  It fit beautifully in my plans that I hoped to carry out to talk against them and still eliminate the danger of exposing my identity by my voice.

          “A boy known to me as William Clark Von Schaible is born American and comes from Philadelphia.  He is married in this country and has two children and has resided in Germany I think since 1932, conducting a busi-

1188

ness of tobacco wholesale and he has put out of business when the Germans advanced into Greece and the Balkans.  Undoubtedly he had little hard times.  When I met him, that was in July of last year, he came to my department of the foreign office.  Previous to that he had been employed at the Ministry of Propaganda.  Mike (the name I called him; Von Schaible left Germany on Friday, May 22 in a sealed train with a number of other Americans which were exchanged for returning Germans.  This Mike Von Schaible is today in America, and I believe that the boy will verify the correctness of my story as far as he knows it.  (He knew I was going away.  I seen him around, I think in April)

          “The following statement was dictated to Ellen E.  Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special Agent Duane L. Traynor on June 21, 1942:

          “Q      Will you continue about the communications and four ways you had of sending letters with different names.  Were you given any other instructions?

          “A      We were given assurances that the next group to come would be given further instructions.  These persons would be taught the operation of short wave wireless.  In this way close contact between us the home country would be established.  If and when they were to come was not definitely known.  We only knew that if they did come it would be around September, and they were to be under the leadership of Dempsey.  “Q. Now were they going to get in touch with you

1189

or Kerling?

“A      Through the so-called basic address, which happened to be for me the address I had given for my little brother.  They could always reach me through that address, and they could reach Kerling through his address.  I am not sure that I have Kerling’s address on the handkerchief.  There are three or four addresses on it and I know that one is in Lisbon, one is the address of the priest in Chicago, and the other may be Kerling’s cover address.  I cannot tell now.

          “A      I was asked if I had a better address and I told them that I did not know any reliable people.  I undoubtedly could have given them some other addresses, but I did not want to involve any innocent people in this setup so I gave them the fake address of my little brother.  I made up the address quickly out of my mind.  As clever as I tried to be, I was confronted with the question as to where my brother lived and I immediately gave them New London, Connecticut, and made up the street as Pelham Road.  Once I had given that address I put it down in my little notebook so if I should be questioned again I would give the same address.  I did not want to slip up by giving a different address if I were subsequently questioned. 

          “Q      Did they give you any address in this country where other people might

1190

get in touch with you?

          “A      No.  They gave me only one address of a person I was to approach.  That person was a Lutheran priest.  When I asked Lieutenant Kappe who he was, he told me that the man was all right and that he knew the catch word and he had left Germany in September or October of last year.  AT that time they already had plans to work this out.  When I saw Kappe the first time on the 1st or 2nd of June, 1940, they had these plans made, but did not tell them to me.  They sent me to work in the Foreign Office as a monitor merely to keep up-to-date on what was going on in America.  At that time they had already reasoned that I was going to be used for this work when the time came.  That is why Lieutenant Kappe told me when I left that if everything did not go all right I was to come back to him.  When I approached the Intelligence Officer, Lieutenant Kappe was sore at me because he said he had first call on me.  The very first time I was in his office I had to go into a separate room where I was cross-examined for two hours.  He asked me what I knew about all this.  When they knew that I would fit into the picture, the only thing they had to do then was to keep in touch with me, keep me happily employed, and keep me in a place where I would be in contact with America over the radio.  This is the way

1191

I reasoned things out and in my way of thinking I was right.  Again, I might be wrong.

          “When I approached Kappe I told him that I was not satisfied with my job as it did not satisfy my ideals.  I told him I came to Germany to do my duty to the fullest extent and I felt like I was a slacker since I had a beautiful and easy job while the soldiers were out there fighting.  I told him I wanted to do something big.  He told me I could be used against England as a parachute trooper.  I suggested this because I wanted to find a way to get out of the country.  Kappe told me right then and there that I spoke a beautiful language and it was all very nice for me to desire to do my duty but I would have to risk my life to do that.  I told him that was what I wanted and was looking for.  I knew all the while why they were there.  When he approached me that day it was the first time I had seen him since I left him on June 2.  He asked me if I liked my job and if I was satisfied.  That was in August and at that time I already had the desire to get going and the do something.  I was just in the early stages where I saw what a rotten setup it was, so I told him I was not happy and he asked me why not.  I said there was political graft going on, but I did not say anything else because that was the first time I had been in the setup.  That night I met Lord Haw-Haw.  He made a speech about

                                                                                                              1192

the Fuehrer and I took it all in.

          “This was not in August because at the time I was with the Holland girl whom I met and who helped to formulate my decision to do more work because she told me about the sorrows of the people during the bombardment of Rotterdam.  I think it must have been at the end of September and not in August when I met Kappe the first time.  At that time this so-called plan had not developed.  Dempsey had already been taken off the job there and had previously gone through the school because when he came with us to the school he said that he had been through it before and had been on the way over to America but had only gotten as far as Bordeaux.  I did not ask him why he didn’t go on as I figured it was none of my business.  The main thing was to cover my steps and get going.  As obstacles came up I had to find a way around, over or under them.  I was very careful what I said so that at no time they could get wise to me, especially the captain.  He looked me over closely.  They must have had all kinds of records on me.  They knew that I served as a boy in the army and that I had expressed my desire to help my country as a boy.  They also knew that I knew Rheinhold Barth, who married my cousin, Freidel Dasch daughter of my father’s brother.  I talked a lot with Barth, who was an idealistic Nazi.  I gave him a lot of talk about my duty, my desire to fight, and my willingness to die for my country.  He went to Kappe and told him all this and told him I was all right and that he would vouch for me.

1193

When I first approached the G-1 Agent I had give Kappe as a reference.  He told me that he thought Kappe wished to see me.  Kappe knew that I had made an application with G-1.  Barth knew exactly where I lived and we used to go out together and I confided in him that I was willing to do something big.  He said Kappe told him over the phone that he wanted to use me.  I therefore had two fellows interested in me and one or the other would show me a way.

          “Q      What about the Lutheran minister?  Do you know when he came over or how?

          “A      No, I don’t, but Lieutenant Kappe told me that he had been in Berlin.  He had a talk with Kappe and went to the United States a few months before.  It must have been in September or perhaps October, 1941.  Maybe it was August; I don’t know.  I didn’t ask any questions as it was none of my business.

          “Q      Where is he located?

          “A      His address is on the handkerchief.  I think it is in Elizabeth or Newark, New Jersey.  I was not interested in remembering things like that as I had all the evidence on the handkerchief.

          “Q      Is he supposed to have a congregation of some kind?

          “A      I cannot tell you that.

          “Last Sunday I had to give the boys in New York a reason for my absence.  I told Pete Burger to tell them that I was getting in touch with people I am supposed to contact.  They, as members of my group, were not supposed to know that.  Only the group leaders were to know about dc, but I had to give

1194

them an excuse for my absence.

          “Q      About these boats, were they to come over later?  Did they have any particular address other than your brother’s address and Kerling’s address where they could possibly get in touch with you?

          “A      In that respect you have to put yourself in my shoes.  I dodged anything that would tie me down to this racket for any length of time.  I gave a thought to what was going to happen when they came.  I knew that this whole works was to be disclosed by me.  Furthermore, it was possible that this fellow Kelly was coming over here convinced to just do what he was sent for.  He may have given some other address, but I don’t know about this.  I figured if he had any addresses and if he needed them I would make it my business to gain his confidence because Kelly did not trust me.  I made the mistake of taking the whole thing too lightly.  During those three weeks at Quentz I acted just like a jackass because I had no desire to take part in this, and in order to cover up my desire to learn this business I became playful.  When I was approached by Kappe and accused of not being sincere because I did not get my men together in a group and pay attention to them and discuss plans, I told him that I had though about this and had come to the conclusion that we could not talk about something the details of which we did not know.  I explained that the men might possibly get all kinds of ideas and become soared.  I told them we would learn later just what to do.

1195

I decide that I would have to be able to make quick decisions on a moment’s notice and I explained this to him.  He fell for the story.  When we landed here and I was able to fool that little Navy boy, I related that very same argument to the boys.  I told them that they had been accusing me of not being sincere, but I told them I was just as serious as they were, but I was the kind of man who acted quickly and made fast decisions.  I explained that exact plans could not be drawn up months ahead.  We had to be able to make the right decision when the proper moment came.

          “When we were at Quentz we held discussions and I found out that all those other boys were typical Germans and that you could not discuss anything intelligently with them.  They had only one idea and if that idea was not allowed to carry the floor, they all became mad at you.  I decided this was no way to gain their confidence because if I isolated myself I would never be able to reach them.  They would run away from me when we got to this country.  I could not let it get that far.  That is why last Sunday night at Columbia University when we walked down that street, 116th Street or whatever it was, Henry Kaynor told me that he knew they used to argue with me and did not think I was sincere, but that I proved yesterday morning what kind of a leader I was and that they believed in me and would do whatever I would say.  I told them to look for an apartment and that Pete Burger would be with them as I would be away for a few days.  I told them to have confidence in me.  I said

1196

I had checked on their papers and contact some people for a few days.  After they left, I told Pete to keep in close touch with the boys as I would be going to Washington and didn’t know how long I would be there.”

                    (At this point the Attorney General entered the court room.)

                    (The reading of the statement of George John Dasch was resumed as follows:)

          “Q      Do you know when these boys were to come over with fellows who transmitted wireless messages, and if the equipment they were going to use was here or if they were going to bring it with them?

          “A      They were going to bring it with them.  Richard Quintas and Henry Kaynor were introduced to me to me at Quentz as the two boys who had to take this course and were designated for that work.  They were supposed to at that time to learn how to operate the telegraph and short wave radio set.  I asked Kappe if they were taking the equipment along with them and if they had good equipment.  He said that they had the best and would take it with them.  I asked how they would do that.  I had learned all about this equipment at the place I had been working.  We had one office that was nothing else but a locator of secret situations.  I snooped around and found out what I could.  Kappe said the equipment would be carried along with them.  They would build it into a car and an aerial would be attached to the car which would be extended way up.  They could go into different sections of the country.

1197

“I made a statement yesterday and I wish to repeat it because it is very vital.  When finally about two weeks later the groups had been changed or regrouped because Scotty and Ernst Zuber were taken out, this fellow Quintas was put directly into my group as was also Henry Kaynor.  I asked if they were going with me to operate the telegraph and short wave wireless.  Kappe said they had changed their minds and were not going to send anyone over with any equipment.  He said he could not tell me, but the Naval Intelligence was opposed to it and advised us not to take anyone along. 

          “Swenson had been in Tokyo and arrived the 28th or 29th or the 1st of April at Bordeaux on a blockade breaker.  Kappe called me up and told me that this fellow was coming in and he had just returned from Tokyo.  He was sent to me and I was asked to cross-examine and check on him.  When he came in I took a good look at him and said that he was made to order.  I asked him his name and he said it was Joseph Schmidt.  I said I thought he was a Swede from Midwest, Milwaukee or St. Paul, Minnesota.  He had a big slouch hat on, wore a big smile, and walked slowly.  I told him to sit down.  He gave me a short story of his trip, and I asked him if he knew what this was all about.  I told him I could not tell him now, but in the meanwhile the telephone rang and Kappe called and told me to tell him the whole works but have him sign a statement to keep quiet about this the rest of his life.

          “I then told him what it was all about.  I told him it was an outfit which assigns people to go back to America to do sabotage work, and I asked him if he was

1198

willing to go along.  I asked him how much he knew about America and he told me very little as he had been living north of Edmonton in Canada.  He told why he left there and the route he took through America into Mexico and how he came back.  He said this was nothing new to him as he had been approached in Tokyo by the German Intelligence there to do the same thing.  I asked him what he meant by the same thing.  He said it was not exactly sabotage, but he was supposed to be instructed how to operate a wireless radio.  I asked him who made him this offer and he said it was someone in Tokyo and that he had gone to Shanghai with him.  He believed the man was in the Naval Intelligence.”

          The President.  If there are no comments we will recess for one hour, until 11:30.

                    Whereupon, at 12:30 o’clock p.m., a recess was taken until 1:30 o’clock p.m.

1199

AFTER RECESS

                    (The Commission reconvened at 1:30 o’clock p.m. upon the expiration of the noon recess.)

          The President.  The Commission is open.

          Colonel Munson.  The full personnel of the Commission is present, as are also the eight defendants and the reporter.  Of the prosecution staff the Honorable Francis Biddle, the Attorney General, and Major General Myron Cramer, and the Judge Advocate General, Colonel John M. Weir and Major William T. Thurman continue absent, and also the civilian members of the prosecution staff, Mr. Oscar Cox and Mr. James H.  Rowe, Jr.  Of the defense, Major Stone is still absent and Captain Hummel of the defense is also absent.

                    (The reading of the statement of the defendant Dasch was resumed as follows:)

          “On Friday, the 15th of May, when we came back from our inspection tours of the factories, I spoke to Swenson and asked him to tell me about the hook-up out there.  I asked him if was sent to an address here from there.  He said that he was.  I reasoned that he had been only a few days in Germany and wondered how they had been able to get hold of him so quick.  He disclosed to me that he had to go to a certain room at the headquarters of the German High Command to see a certain person.  I asked him what kind of officer he was and he told me that he had a naval uniform on.  A little later on in France I asked Kappe about this boy and he said that the boys

          1200

were in doubt about the sincerity of Swenson.  I asked him to tell me more about him.  He had come from America and he might have given us a put-up story.  Kappe told me he came directly from the Naval Intelligence and he sent him to me.

          “I sincerely believe that we are the first ones since the war to come here to do sabotage, but they are also working in the Naval Intelligence.  That is why those bums know exactly where the ships go.  They receive this information somewhere in France and through their own stations at Lorrient or Brest, the submarine headquarters.  From there they notify the submarines that on such and such a date and hour a ship has left a certain harbor and at the same time they are undoubtedly instructed how to tell the difference between a slow or fast ship so that they can know just about where it will be after so man hours form the time the message was sent over.  That is the basis of their success.  I reasoned this from the experience I had in the submarine radio room.  I noticed that when a message came in he put down letters like j, g, or h, and then everything was written out on another little machine like a typewriter, and this message came out different than the way it was takes.  The little machine was connected under the table and had a little bulb over it, and it moved back and forth like a typewriter.  First they received the message on the tickers and marked it down as j. g. h. n. or whatever it was, and than the other

1201

machine copied down the message in the correct way in the German language.  This message was put in a black book in which is written the hour and everything else connected with the message.  All the officers including the helmsman read the book daily and have to make a sign after the message and I saw that some of them were marked with red pencil.  I could not afford to ask them to let me see the book as it was too dangerous.

          “Q      Would you say that this machine translates a code into the German language?

          “A      Yes, I know that for a fact.  I sat there and saw it was written this way.  It was readable as German script on the little machine underneath.

          “I wanted to go into the radio room on the third day out to sea, but the corporal on guard stopped me and said he was sorry but no one was allowed to go in there.  I had to think of another way to be able to get in there.  When we were about four or five days from the American coast, I went to the captain (Leichner) and told him I would like to be able to sit in the radio booth and put on the short wave band and the long wave band (they also have a middle band over there) for the purposes of listening to announcements in regard to restrictions on the beaches and anything else which I would have to know in order to lead my group through safely.  The captain fell for this.  I really meant it, too, as I did not want to be caught while landing.  That gave me the opportunity I wanted so I told the captain that the non-commissioned officer

1202

had refused to let me go in there.  The captain took me along and went to the officer’s station and told him that I should be allowed to go in.  When I went in, I told the man on duty that I knew the short wave radio and asked if he had a long wave band on it.  It was the same make as the one where I had worked.  The trade name of this apparatus was Telefunken.  All the apparatus were under the same name.  In one corner there was a little apparatus with a round disc and I was informed that they could send and receive with that but only for a short distance.  Then there was a short and long wave set just like a regular radio set which anybody could buy.  To the left there was a large apparatus and a dial was hidden or built in it and there was a big lens over it and a light by it.  I did not dare to ask any questions because I did not have any engineering knowledge and could possibly not understand the correct meaning of everything.  Next to this was a bookshelf and underneath that was the little typewriter previously mentioned.  Then there was another machine where there were three round discs and I think it was here that the messages came through.  This machine was somewhat like a cash register.  Different letters came out and the little machine worked underneath it.  He put the messages in the black book.  Next to this they had another little room and in that room they had a round disc which was a listening device with all the degrees marked on it.  They turned a wheel and a little white

 

1203

thing went along with it.  When they heard something they knew exactly at what degree the noise was on.  We were going at two and one-half knots speed under water when approaching the coast.  There was an officer continuously watching this machine and jotting down the degrees.  They had two earphones and the officers picked up the earphones and listened in.  At one time they had heard a fishing trawler.  The lieutenant reported this to the captain.  The captain put on the earphones and listened and then said it was a fishing trawler.  I asked him how he knew.  He said he could tell by the revolution of the engine.  After a while the young fellow said the same noise could be heard in another direction which indicated that the fishing schooner was going away from us.

          “The following was directed by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traynor, N. D. Wills, and Frank Johnston on June 21, 1942:

          “Q      From your conversation over there do you know whether the wireless was intended to send messages across the ocean or direct?  Do they intend to have some radio receiving spot in Germany and the fellows over here could reach that way?

          “A      A short wave from the U.S.  in a set and send them direct.  Say maybe amateur radios and send them in code the same way.  Not only were we taught how to operate them but a code also.  It was not a radio, because it was something you had to learn dots and

1204

dashes.  What you call it, Morse Code.  That is what those guys are supposed to know.  There are two boys in New York, Henry Kaynor and Quintas.  They were picked to learn that on account of their technical background.  They are able to tell exactly what they are supposed to learn.  When the time comes for you to question them I will find out that.  It is no use for me to make any statement to which I am not sure I am correct or cannot back up.  Wait until we get to the right person.

          “Q      What other contacts were you to have in this country besides this address in Chicago and this Lutheran priest?  Were you to contact anyone else?

          “A      No.  I also have the undercover address which is a secret address at which Kerling could be reached.  In case I lose contact of Kerling through this so called address I use that address. 

          “Q      If you don’t have it on the handkerchief you referred to where is it?

          “A      No where else.  I could not very well put all this into my noodle.  At least give us the opportunity to take something along I told them.  I wanted to mark down in secret ink the whole formulaes and I decided not to do that for two reasons.  First, I had to get myself the necessary ingredients.  That might make me give myself away.  Second, if that paper is found on me there is some one to have it.  Some of the boys know it very well because I heard them repeating it.  They have it in their head.  It is up to me to get it out of them.  However, I have already prepared for them.

1205

For he very fact that the boxes are in a very poor spot gave me he thought that by telling the boys Quintas and Kaynor that it was very dangerous to get boxes and to put it down in such a way that when I come to them I can get it.  That was just last Sunday.  When I told them that the boxes were in a very poor spot.  Without suspicion on their side I will get the formulaes.

          “Q      You had no other persons to contact in this country?

          “A      No, sir.

          “Q      Did you have the names of any persons who were going to be recruited in your organization?

          “A      It was also the job of this whole undertaking to recruit a number of responsible people who have formerly been members of the group which other men of these groups have had acquaintance with previously.  I thought this idea from the beginning to the end because I argued it is bad enough that eight boys should know what we are doing, if more people should be called in for it.  They might be law abiding citizens but by our so-called talk we are at the same time helping them to commit a crime.  It is different though.  If, maybe the other fellows, like Kerling and others, who ever the others are, they might have been approached by Lieutenant Kappe in an entirely different way.  On the night of the farewell party with the Colonel, after we broke up from the dinner table and we went over to separate tables I took this opportunity and sat down with Colonel

1206

Chief and I talked with him in order to make my old case secure.  There I raised the question ‘Do you think it advisable in order to make this organization there larger and with that in the same time more effective to meet the confidence and cooperation of other people, Germans which come from some of my buddies, as well as Lieutenant Kappe, have already made friends.  Do you think it advisable to get them in with us?’  He said ‘It is fundamentally,…, it would be the biggest mistake to do that.  Because what a person has been a year or two before he cannot be today.  At that time they may have been Bund members, today they are aliens or may be citizens in the country at war where laws, stricter laws are being enforced and on face and facts which we must reason to be in the hands of the FBI.  They are being closely watched.  You are talking too brave a chance to go in there.’  He said, I beg you do me one favor.  Kindly make it an official order from you that anyone of us being directed to do that approach to get others in because I reasoned that I am quite sure because Lieutenant Kappe said the following ‘Listen boys, go ahead and work on the nationalistic spirit, the homesickness of those fellows.  Promise them anything.  Promise them even heaven and earth.  Promise them to get money when they get back to Germany.  And promise them they will get a job.’  I said to myself that is typical of a - - - - Nazi.  And I am going to fight that.  I am not going to carry that out.  As long as

1207

you do that it is to their advantage.  Then they will tell you smoothly how wonderful you are.  You are fully German.  And the kid, I don’t know, who has been an American, that would be hurt.

          “In 1926 I worked as a waiter in the Blue Bird Inn in … which was located on the corner of 25th.  My boss who was at that time a close friend of W.F. Ryan in New York City which carried the majority of sewerage and road building contracts from someone in New York, told this friend of his, Gus Raabe that this old rocky road was to be made into a boulevard in the near future.  A turnpike highway, I mean, you know.  In a year or two you will get lots of bonus, so buy it up now.  This corner happened to be a restaurant before so he came, that is how he reached me.  Through the International Geneva Association on 52nd Street in New York City.  And he told me and made a proposition that I should go out and run this place for him and sometime in August, 1926, I think, after he had this place going he also told me I should go ahead and sell liquor.  He brought the liquor into the house.  I was known to no one there.  That is all wrong.  Let me think, oh yes, the Logan Real Estate (?) people knew that, how the outsider was chiseling in on their profits.  Therefore, they tried hard to put this place in a bad light so that this fellow Raabe was forced to sell this establishment.  Therefore, this Blue Bird Inn, when I was

1208

there, had on the second and third floors roomers.  I was instructed that when I went out there the State Law of New York State in regards to renting rooms, it was necessary for each man or couple not only to register in the book but also have at least some luggage on them.  Some of the time, wait, sometime in the month of September, no August, a man came into the restaurant and I served him his luncheon or dinner, or whatever it was, and after that he gave me a good tip, I think about $2.  I was kind of suspicious and I put that money into the cash box because I was handling all the money, you know.  About a week later that man came again and this time with a young lady and he appeared to be like an ordinary citizen.  He paid his check and gave me again a good two or five dollar tip and said ‘Goodbye George, see you again.’  The first two weeks in September he returned again and this time with another young lady.  He had then spoke to me and gave me a good tip and said, ‘Listen George I want you to do me a favor.  You have rooms upstairs, haven’t you?  I am a married man.  I would like to have a room up there.’  I said to him, ‘I am sorry you can’t do that.  Yes, you have to register for a room but you have to have a bag.’  Anyway he persuaded me to give him a room without registering without luggage and they went upstairs.  I had that day gotten a brand new Chevrolet car.  And when one of the boys came around I said to him to come back and see my car and I was showing him the car in the garage and a shot was fired and this

          1209

fellow ‘Bill’ happened to be near the exit of the garage; he ran out first and I seen where a man with a gun in his hand pointed the gun at him.  I came around the car and followed him and right away kicked the gunman in the back.  And this fellow he fell down on the ground and pulled out a whistle out of his pocket and before I knew it I was surrounded by a bunch of guys.  I was taken inside the place and hen I come in why I see my friend the good customer and am Assistant District Attorney of Nassau County, New York, in the room.  They took me down to the police station in Nassau County New York where the Captain of the police knew me.  I requested to call my boss.  And my boss came down and brought along a lawyer who was formerly a judge.  His name was Jones.  When the case came up for court the case was thrown out, dismissed, on the ground that the District Attorney of Assistant District Attorney of Nassau County hired stool pigeons to bribe law abiding citizens into disobeying the law by paying them money which comes out of taxpayers’ pockets.  This incident I orate now because that is exactly what came into my mind.  This little history of my little life when they told us to go out and give and get some others who would be suckers.  Undoubtedly I still believe there is a lot of so-called Nazi guys in this country.  I try hard to be a human being.  It is not justice and right to induce a person who has tried and trys to be right and obey rules and regulations of a country to bribe him to disobey a law or become a

1210

criminal.

          “Q      Did they furnish you any names?

          “A      No.  That is why I begged this Colonel he should give strict orders to Lieutenant Kappe and Mr. Kerling that none of us men should go out and proceed to persuade those fellows.  Maybe it was given, because in a hotel room in L’Orient on that day we left I had the final argument in the room in which Lieutenant Kappe, Henry Kaynor, Richard Quintas, and Peter Burger sat.  The question was raised there and then whether this fellow Kaynor should approach a German boy he knew who is married who is an American citizen, has a.  child, lives someplace (the address is in that little red book I lost out there on Amagansett) Oh yes, St.  Albans, I believe, in Long Island.  I think I am correct in saying that.  Lieutenant Kappe gave this boy an order to go and pay this man a visit.  I said, ‘If this boy Kaynor pays a visit to this fellow he will have to do it over my dead body.’  ‘I, the head of this outfit and trusted by the chief, I have begged him to give you orders that none of them should approach anyone.  Lieutenant Kappe, you are not following the orders and instructions of your chief.  I know definitely that you should not do it.’  He said ‘You have no confidence in our people in America who have been in the Bund.  This man, Henry Kaynor and I have been in America.’  And Henry Kaynor said, ‘Why, you dirty so and so, we in the Bund had to fight people like you in America.’  We will get this Kaynor.  We will get it out of him.  Kindly go back to

1211

the way those dirty Nazis work.  They are willing to risk the lives of the future and security of anyone.  You understand.  They have not done that in Europe itself.  They have hirelings and fifth columnists.  Because I am a Dutchman, I will not be responsible for a law abiding citizen who might two years ago be in this Bund because he was raised or educated or convinced, but today, yes, that there is a little difference.

          “Q      Did Lieutenant Kappe or anyone else over there give you a list of people who might become organizational members?

          “A      No, because I have told you over and over that I was tickled pink that the departure came so quick because he was a Nazi and I tried to be a counterpart and by doing so it was my natural self and he is not a dummy.  I think he smelled it.

          “Q      Do you know whether Kerling or any other boys were furnished lists?

          “A      I had that addresses in the little book I have lost.  After I was on the beach and landed.  Kaynor has often asked me on the submarine whether I have got the address if his friend in St.  Alban.  Well, he said he would like to go there because he even sent me money and payments to my wife in Germany just before the war started, in America, he said.  ‘he is a real good friend and I think I would at least be able to get under cover.  I will tell him the story that I have been an escaped prisoner from Canada and I want a

1212

hiding place and wish him to help me out some.’  I said, ‘If you are unable under the camoflauge papers you have to carry yourself or to move about that you have to have help and get other people to do that, then you are no good.’

          “Q      No one else furnished any names to recruit?

          “A      In my group no one with the exception of the five we had in the hotel room was there ever mentioned any names.  This little boy, Pete Burger, does not know anyone.

Quintas does not know anyone either because he leaned with my away of reasoning because it was injurious and too dangerous.  Only that little coward of Henry Kaynor because he proved to be a coward.  But I say that it is my sincere conviction that this fellow Kerling who has been a real active member and the same way this fellow Herby Haupt I think those two fellows are supposed to approach someone.  I don’t know who.  The reason on which I base my suspicion that Lieutenant Kappe must have asked Kerling to approach people was one statement that I made that I had lived in America an entirely different life than Kerling.  I couldn’t understand it and I didn’t and wouldn’t be successful in it in any way.  Kerling would know the people.  Also in the beginning as far back as January, I was given plenty of confidence and I felt that confidence slip in the last few weeks.  I only hope that the confidence stood long enough.

          “I figures if that Captain says to me ‘Mr. Davis, I

1213

am sorry I have got to take you back to L’Orient’, I will never go back there alive.  I will jump overboard and open my mouth and die like a man.  That is why I had the courage to do everything when the moment of our landing came.  I even had to bribe the poor kid Collins.  I just couldn’t do anything.  I shivered inside.  ‘What can I do?’ for the privilege of having come to a place without any strings tied to me without being caught before I was able to talk so that I was able to talk of my own free will and come here of my own free will and then talk without being caught and prove my sincerity after being caught and in order to avoid that was the only way I could carry it out. 

1214

 “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Donald Oden, FBI, on June 21, 1942, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, N.D.  Wills, and Frank Johnston, Special Agents:

          “Give me the chance I’ll deliver the whole damn thing complete.  I want to do it thoroughly.  It’s the Dutch in me.

“Q      George, what’s in this notebook that you lost besides the address of this friend of Kaynor’s?

“A      Outside of that is an address of relations of my wife in Dearborn, Michigan.  That I put in so that when I came back to the United States, maybe I can find the whereabouts of my poor woman.  I also had a card in there of the person whom I had to go with Tokyo.  I mentioned that name yesterday and I forgot it again today.   It’s marked down somewhere – that manager of the armored wagon service.

“Q      What else?

“A      I think the very last page I have got the figures which President Roosevelt gave in his radio speech in January, the figures of the production of tanks, planes, and ships and tonnage of ships.  Because tight after that I went on my vacation.  I have told the people what President Roosevelt said, and I told them, ‘Kids, this war has not begun.’

“Q      Was there anything else?

“A      No.

“Q      You didn’t have any formulas?

“A      No, sir, nothing.

“Traynor: We hope to find that little book.

1215

Dasch: It must be laying there somewhere on the beach.

“Q      What’s the value of finding it?  A. The value?  Traynor: All we have is one address, two addresses for you and one address for Kaynor.  Dasch: The value first of all for me as a person is to get in touch with my woman, to reach those people out in Dearborn. 

“Q      What else could be in it?

“A.     I cannot remember.  I know I had two or three addresses and when I was asked by Kappe in Lorient, ‘Let me see that notebook there,’ there were only about 20 pages in it, the first rippted out.  He said to me, ‘What have you got in here?’  I told him, ‘I got this and that address and also little visiting cards.  I have only got this here so I will have it in case I should be stopped it looks well.  I am an american – all American addresses and also the calling cards.’

“Neil Stebbins was his name from San Francisco.  That is the guy I told in Tokyo last year, ‘If I come to Germany and I find out that Hitler and his gang are not carrying on for the benefit of the majority of the people, I shall fight him and I will find a way o do it.’

“Q      What does the book look like, George?

          “A      A little ten cent book, black cover.  I bought it in San Francisco in a ten cent store last year, the morning before I left.

          “Q      George, what are the differences between intelligence 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6?

1216

          “A      I couldn’t tell you exactly.

          “Q      What is your understanding of what they are?

          “A      Look, I have told you that all sections in the German Government, especially in the German High Command, know only what they are doing and don’t know what the others are doing.  When I came to Kappe and said, ‘Section 1 approached me,’ I think he said it was the main intelligence and the others are branches – this doing that and another doing something else, and Intelligence Service 1 is the head of the whole section and then 2 is sabotage, 3 is, I know this for sure, censorship.  Four, I don’t know, five, I don’t know and six.  There are all together six numbers.  I could not at any time take the risk of trying to find out.  That is too deep, you understand, too risky. 

          “Q      George, it is your understanding that possibly Dempsey will lead a group coming over here in September?  Do you know whether this is his correct name.  A. No, sir, we only called him Dempsey because he used to be a fighter.  That isn’t his right name.  That is his official name in High Command just like my official name is Strich, meaning dash.

          “Q      Do you know whether he had ever been in this country before?

          “A      Why certainly, he has been in this country from 1912 up until 1921 or 1923.  Because I said to him, ‘Jesus, your English is very beautiful after you have been away from the country for so long.  In 1921

1217

or 1923 he went back to Europe and he has been there every since.  His job over there, as he explained to me, was physical instructor and trainer of prize fighters.

          “Q      Did he ever fight in this country?  A. Yes.  Q. Under what name?   A. Oh wait a minute—Smith—I’ll come to his name, let me think.  He was a bellhop out in St. Louis in some damn hotel.  I forget now.  See, I had very little to do with this man.  He broke away too soon.  He went out to Quentz on Wednesday and the following Monday he went away.

          “Q      What weight did he fight at?  A. I would venture to say he was a little light weight.  He’s heavy set now.  I think light weight.  Billy Smith is his name.  He was known as Billy Smith.  Listen, I think I can get his German name.  I had it in my notebook in Germany.  I had his telephone number also.  I met his wife once.  Sometime in January I went down to little Rheinhold Bart.  It was before I was definitely given the assurance that I would go.  I said, ‘I am sick and tired and would like to bring this to a head.  This fellow Kappe is stringing me along.’  I said, ‘The man doesn’t know me personally well at all.  I suggest you and Kappe and myself go out to a wine restaurant.  The fact that the wine is very short and you are only able to get two bottles.  When we were finished with that, he said, ‘Let’s go

1218

over to a place I know.’  And when we got there it was on the Kurforstendam.  As we got there I was introduced to this fellow Dempsey, alias Billy Smith, and his wife for the first time.  That night when the party broke up, he went my way in the subway and the fact that I had been in the party of Lieutenant Kappe, he opened up a little bit, and he opened up to the extent that he put the question to me.  “Are you with the intelligence too?’  I said, ‘Yes.’  ‘Well, let’s shake hands.  I am with them a long time.’  I have got – Billy Braubender is t he name!

          “I told him that I am employed with the foreign office and he said to me ‘Where?’  I said, ‘Out in the Seahaus with department R (radio).’  For Christ sake, I worked there,’ he said.  I said, ‘Until when?’  ‘Until last June.’  For Christ sakes!  So you are the guy who was called away from the General Headquarters because the day when Lieutenant Kappe called that place, that branch in the foreign office, he said to this chief out there, ?erra that ‘I have taken two [unreadable] away from you and I am sending one who fits in beautifully.’  That fellow Braubender was one of the guys who was taken away by Lieutenant Kappe.  That was the guy who already went through in August or so in that school and got all the preparation and was on his way to America and got as far as Bordeaux.  Why he went back, why he didn’t go through with his mission, I do not know because that little Billy Braubender was a [unintelligible] old for.  He is a typical little gambling

1219

type of a guy.  One of those race track types, you know, and I figured, “Christ sakes, this guy isn’t doing this for the sake of his country but for the sake of the money and any type of a guy like that you have got to be very, very, careful with.  Because he told he gambles and that he played the horses all the time.  According to what he said I judged him, “Christ, this guy is no lover of his country.  He is in for the money.”  He asked me at the station that night, ‘Are you getting paid?’  I said, ‘You ask me too many questions.’  I wasn’t being paid by the General High Command.  I was paid 15 marks a day from the last of March, 1942, after being released from my former place of employment, the foreign office, Department R.

          “Q      Did he ever hold any titles while he was boxing over here?

          “A      I couldn’t tell you.

          “Q      Do you know of anyone he fought against?

          “A      This I couldn’t tell you either.  He mentioned all kinds of fights.  Like any golf player, he shoots in the 70’s, like every ball player, he was a major leaguer, etc.

          “Q      Where did he have most of his fights?

          “A      I think in St. Louis and Chicago.  He was out in the middle west.  He knew the middle west well.  Billy Braubender was his name – at least that is the name under which I approached him and his wife and addressed them.  Also I called him under that name on

                    1220           

the telephone.  Officially you can’t carry two names in Germany.  That must have been his real legal name. 

          “Q      What part of the United States would he choose to land?  You chose Long Island; Kerling chose Florida; what would he choose?

 

          “A      This answer I could not tell you correctly because I am not in a position to know what they intend to do in six months.  I could not very well ask them because I am quite sure I would not have gotten an answer.  ‘That’s none of your damn business.  Don’t ask questions.’  And I certainly avoided every question, because that would have aroused suspicion.  Anything I found out I had to use certain methods, carefully checked twice in order to get together datA.  If I had used other ways, perhaps I wouldn’t be here today.

          “Q      I can appreciate that George.  What sort of description would fit this fellow?      

“A      Billy Braubender is a man about 5’6”, 45 years of age, about 150 pounds (big stomach), on lower jar missing several teeth in front.  Q  What color hair?  A.  I couldn’t tell you that --- grayish.  He had little grayish hair.  Yes, he had grayish hair.  I only saw him five or six days.  Monday he left.  He was our physical instructor. 

“Q      He wasn’t bald?

“A      No, he had grayish hair.  Please don’t ask me such.  There are so many bald heads.  I want to tell you something.  When I came to Japan I see nine out of ten men and women wearing glasses.  I was trying

1221

to look for a reason.  And another thing I noticed when in Germany – the majority of the men are bald headed.  The reason I found for that is because the wear helmets.  They wear helmets so much that their hair comes out in them.  I told them, ‘You people don’t give you r hair a chance to grow.  You clip that short military style.’  Just look at those square heads.  It’s sickening.  Nine out of ten men under 40 years of age are bald.

          “Q      Has he a plate or anything for those false teeth?

          “A.     He has no false teeth.  I have false teeth for Christ sakes.  I am going to get them fixed soon if I am at liberty to do so.

          “Q      You have no idea, or do you have any idea when he is expected to take out from Germany with his group?

          “A      I have told you either September or October because the question was put, he told me, ‘Listen, when I follow you guys over there – it’s going to be September or October and it’s going to be cold.

Give me that leather jacket.’

          “Q      That is his idea when they are coming?

          “A      He wouldn’t know.  The High Command decides on that.  But I reason this way.  His group is not complete.  They need a certain amount of time to be trained.  Is that correct?  Now it was June already when Walter Kappe went back to Berlin.  He told me that he would go home after he sent his first contingent.

1222

He was to have 10 days rest with his wife and children in Stuttgart.  Then he would go back and get the details first, a lot of preparation work to be done, and then another month could go by, and then get the boys together.  And then give them thorough instruction.  Oh yes, I asked the question, I remember now.  When I walked up to Lorient, the Naval Station there, I had to stand outside.  Oh wait a minute, there is another thing.  I remember.  He said to me (Lt.  Kappe), ‘Have you thought already of a place and time when you are going to meet Dempsey when he comes?’  I said, ‘Well I have thought of it what would you suggest?’  At this time I am not quite sure when I am going to meet him but because I couldn’t put it down on the handkerchief no more, I went home and entrusted this to this fellow Quintas because he was supposed to be my assistant.  I am quite sure that when I reopen that question to Dick Quintas, he will be able to tell me exactly what I told him.  I know it was on the 4th of September, Labor Day, also Thanksgiving Day, and then either the 1st or 15th of every month.  Now, where and when and which hotel and which city I don’t remember.  It might have been the ____________ Hotel in Pittsburgh.  I have got it!  Let me see.  There’s a hotel in St.  Louis the ball players used to use, right opposite Grant Park nearby the University of St. Louis – the big hotel – the Jefferson Hotel in St. Louis.  That is

1223

it.  Jefferson Hotel in St. Louis during the lunch hour and at night.  The first date of meeting would be on Labor Day and the last one, as I remember would be on Thanksgiving and I think also either the 1st or the 15th of every month following Labor Day.  The definite dates could not have been arranged because Kappe could not tell me at that time in Lorient when he would be ready, or rather the group of Dempsey’s would be ready to leave.  I will tell you gentlemen.  I can verify that very statement when I have the opportunity to get Quintas under my questioning.  Because I told him that on the boat.  Because I wanted to get that down and I wanted to have that doubled checked.  I had no chance of marking that down.  That is why I told him.  I had a lot of things on my mind.  I was not supposed to put anything down that could have been carried against me.  I had put everything into me little noodle.  Therefore I figured one mind can forget easier than two.  Because the day might come when I will be asked and I don’t know it anymore.  I had to have a person to refresh my memory.

          “I figured at that time that this fellow Dempsey will never come, and if he does come, well he will go where he belongs.  I figured already in the meantime the Dutchman somehow or others will have gotten wise that this whole gang of eight men are in the hands of the FBI.

1224

          “Q      Why did you reason that way?

          “A      Is it difficult to reason that way?  No, because I did not know up to this day whether this fellow Kerling has any other addresses he has to approach.  I did not know whether that person Bachman which I had to meet in January took up in the High Command merely to take a look at me.  ‘You two gentlemen will meet around the 4th of July in America.’  When I asked later on of Lieutenant Kappe, because he never opened any more that question, what my side of the story in regard to meeting that man, he told me that might have been a stall.  That is why I said again, ‘It is fundamentally necessary that I get that Kerling into my hands and get into his full confidence so I can get it out of him.’  Understand?  Because only in that way can we make a complete job.  Do you know what I have got to do?

1225

          “Traynor: What’s that, George?

          “A      On the day when I will meet this fellow Kerling, I would appreciate very much if I were given some form of identification papers which under the existing laws and rules and regulations I would be able to get myself.  Why am I saying that?  Because this fellow Kerling will undoubtedly out a question up to me, ‘How far have you advanced and what have you done?’  I have to show that I have done something in regard to our so-called work and have to prove it to him.  This will also help to gain his confidence the more.  You understand?  For instance, he also knows that I lost my Social Security Card in France.  If I am in possession of a fake card and a military registration card, it will look good.  It is your business to give me them.  I will regain his confidence.  I will prove that I have done something.  Because when the 4th of July comes around and I am busy with you people, I am really not paying any attention to that original business to which I came to do or which I have got to make them believe.  Otherwise, they say, ‘What did you do?  What’s the matter?  What kind of a guy are you?’  I wouldn’t tell him anything.  Understand?  Do you mind marking that down? 

          Traynor:  In due time.  Dasch: When the 4th of July comes around, it is too late.  Try and make it your business.    Traynor: We’ll take care of that.  We’ll work out the other plans about what papers to get.  Dasch: I have no right to tell you what to do.  I perhaps put it wrong.  This was merely a suggestion and an idea which was tendered merely to get to the bottom of this whole

1226

thing because undoubtedly if I go there empty handed, then maybe he might get suspicious.  For it is no good for you to get another person into your hands without knowing exactly who he is.  It is your business to get the whole layout.  It is up to me to get the other.  In that way I am willing to cooperate with you if you just help make this work a little easier.

          “Q      Something I don’t get quite straight is this business of your giving him your leather jacket.

          “A      The leather jacket?

          “Q      Yes, what are the circumstances surrounding that?

          “A      Because I wanted to take this leather jacket to U.S.A.  I had given all my clothes away in Europe.  I had four suits—my father is old, my brother has enough, and my other little brother is in New York.  Where shall I put my clothes?  So I gave one suit to the son of the laundryman who was very nice to me, another to a crippled soldier who was discharged from the army, and another one to a butcher boy who gave me a little extra sausage, and the fourth one I kept on, and I still had a leather jacket and a pair of flannels.  And I did not know whether I should take it along.  I figure when I land it is going to be warm.  I happened to be in Der Kaukakus when this fellow Dempsey was there.  He said, ‘Why don’t you give me that?’  He said when he lands it is going to be colder.  I said, ‘Okay, kid, here it is.’  It was a way to show my sincerity.  All those little things help.

          “Q      This meeting place for you and Dempsey, was it arranged just the day you left?

          “A      That was arranged between Kappe and myself.

1227

Now undoubtedly it is possible that he spoke to Kerling two days before and they left on Tuesday night and perhaps maybe a different date with him or perhaps a different arrangement.  I do not know.  But the fact remains that the question about meeting the third group I will have to raise with Kerling and check whether his meeting place corresponds with that of mine. 

          “Q      Do you know whether Dempsey has any relatives or does his wife have any relatives?

          “A      That I could not tell you.

          “Q      What about methods or communicating in this country between members if your own group and members if the other group.  What methods were you to use outside of this code word, Franz Daniel Posterious?

          “A      That code word was only to be used to people who have been already hired or sent here or know the whole group, understand, by the German High Command.  Also this fellow Bachman, maybe he is here, I don’t know.  If he would be here he would also be the man that knows the pass word.  I don’t know whether he is here or not. 

          “Q      How about the Chicago address?

          “A      No, I think that was an address furnished by the little Herbie Haupt.  I think he gave that address that used to be a hideout or undercover address for the Bund.  I am not quite sure, but the correspondence between groups went as follows:  The groups will only correspond among each other or to their leader.  No group member could ever correspond with a member in another group because only the leader of each group would know where

          1228

his men were and as well the leader of the other group wouldn’t know where the men of the first group were.  In other words, Herbie Haupt could never know where I am.  Neither could he know where Dick Quintas is.  His leader though would know.  If he would know where I am, then his leader is not living up to his instructions.  This whole works here about how to get together I laid down in just about the same formula when I made my first five page memorandum at the end of November or December.  I already thought that this was the only possible way to catch the whole gang together.  Because you mustn’t forget when once they are coming to this country, I have got to find a way to hold on to them.  And that was suggested to me and I reasoned the soundness of that idea was that I have told them in such a way the whole setup could never be disclosed.  In case anyone was caught, he could not know the whereabouts of the others.  I shall know it.  For instance, if I were to meet Kerling, under no consideration would I tell him where the other boys were.

          “Q      George, over in your room you showed me two little metal cut designs similar to a pig, a porcupine pig.  Would you explain to us the method of communication using those porcupine pigs?

          “A      When I was on the submarine, I noticed that everyone one of the other three boys who were with me had ample time to be alone.  I saw them and studied them closely and I noticed that they did a lot if thinking.  I felt that sometimes my words had no effect on them.  I felt they were slipping out of my hands.  That already goes back to the night of the row we had in the hotel. 

 

          1229

That Henry Kaynor has never forgiven that I have told him that I kill him if he once more calls me a bad German, and his buddy Dick Quintas with him.  I had to prove to him somehow or other that I was on the level.  So I noticed this little porcupine pig insignia on the caps of all the marines, the navy boys on the submarine.  So I figured, ‘Christ sakes, that is a good way to put myself in good grace.’  I went to the Chief Engineer and I said, “Listen, Dutchy, do you mind making me eight of those little porcupine things.  When you finish, bring them to me.’  He brought them to me the next day.  So I got the boys.  I said, ‘Listen, fellows, I want to tell you something.  I want everyone of you to have two of these things.  Because when we go out and we are in the cause of operations and in our work, through some way or other you are unable for some reason or you have to send a man to me, you only have to give him this thing and say, ‘Greetings from Dick’ and I know the man is all right.’  They said, ‘Boy, that is a splendid idea.’  The peaceful relations between the boys and myself was to a great extent again restored.

          “Q      The porcupine pigs then are significant only in your own group?

          “A      That is correct.  The others wouldn’t even know that this sign exists.

          “Q      Do you have any signs to be used between group leaders?

          “A      Not signs, the same way kind of address.  Say for instance, I write to that fellow Eddie Kerling.

1230

I write him a card or letter addressed to him, ‘My dear Eddie.’  Then he would know that I am all right.  Furthermore, when I write him a letter, ‘I like to see you.’  I have told him I like to invite you to see a ballgame on such and such a date, Forbes Field in Pittsburgh.  Understand.  Then he would always have to meet me right at first base.  I even had to go so far as to explain to him what baseball is.  He had never seen a ball game in his life.

          “Q      That is a code to be used between you and Kerling?

          “A      No, between everyone.  That is the same method to be used between me and the little boy Peter, Peter or Henry Kaynor, or the other.  I am not supposed to write anyone of the other groups.  That is the group leader’s job.  Understand?

          “Q      Would Kerling get in touch with his men by writing the same way?

          “A      Yes, the same way.  This was understood for all eight men.  If one of us were forced to write a letter in order to lead the men into the hands of the FBI, he would say, ‘Dear Henry,’ and that would be enough.  This was my idea.

          “Q      Would you have the same means of communicating with Group 3 or any other group that came over here?

          “A      No this was only for us.

          “Q      Did Lieutenant Kappe work out for you any plans for communicating between various groups using code words?

1231

          “A      Nothing.  That was strictly up to us.  We had to do our own thinking and own planning.  When Kappe came, he usually greeted our boys and then took Eddie Kerling and myself out in the garden or in the room upstairs.  Then we discussed further plans and went over things—when we were going, when the trip starts, how long school lasts, the date of our visit to the factories, plans, and all this and that.  The question of amount of money was raised again.  We were asked how this boy was doing, how that boy was doing, etc.

          “The following was dictated to Ellen R.  Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traynor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnston on June 21, 1942:

          “Q      Yesterday you were talking about Kerling and his group splitting up and two of the boys going to Chicago and Kerling and Thomas going first to Pittsburgh and then possibly to New York.  Why were Kerling and Thomas going to Pittsburgh?

          “A      Their first step was to go away from the place of the landing and in a direction away from the shore.  This was generally agreed upon back in Quentz because it would be safer to be inland than down at Jacksonville, or in New York City, or Boston, or anywhere on the coast.

          “Q      Did either Kerling or Thomas know anything about Pittsburgh?  Were they acquainted there?

          “A      No, I don’t think they knew Pittsburgh.  I suggested to Kerling that I would like to meet him at the Penn Alto Hotel in Pittsburgh, but he didn’t want to do so because he didn’t know the town.

1232

          “Q      Do you have any idea that they had relatives or anyone there?

          “A      None whatever.  They would only go to Pittsburgh to my way of reasoning to get sufficient clothes and to get ready to go somewhere else.  They all had to go on vacation.  My idea was to send everyone to a safe spot where they could go take their time and I would know where they were.  I figured that I would have sufficient time to do what I had planned because I had not visualized at that time that it would be so easy for me to come here, to you gentlemen. 

          “Q      Do you know if they were going to stop at any particular hotel?

          “A      No.

          “Q      Have you any idea ho long they were going to stay there?

          “A      No, but I heard Kerling express himself a few times that he might go to New York and, as I made the statement before, he wanted to go to New York to my way of reasoning to get in touch with his wife.  After all, he was away from his wife two years and it was natural for him to want to see her.  He said his wife was all right.

          “Q      Had you any reason to believe he was not getting along with his wife?

          “A      I don’t know.  I have no reason whatsoever.

          “Q      Was he corresponding with her?

          “A      I don’t know that.  I never mixed into the private affairs of Kerling.  As a matter of fact, he

1233

spoke very little about himself.

          “Q      When you were describing your activities of the landing and the things that occurred there, you stated that after burying these boxes you started in toward land, wandering around a little bit, and you buried something else.  Have you any recollection what it was?

          “A      No, I cannot recall what it was.

          “Q      Would it be clothing?

          “A      It must have been a box of clothing or German cigarettes.  I remember something about a package of German cigarettes, but I cannot be sure.

          “Q      Was it something you wanted to come back and obtain?

          “A      No.  The only thing I wanted to come back to get was the damned boxes of dynamite and the clothes which were close by.  To be frank, I would have to look for the clothes because I did not bury the clothes.  I had to go back to Quintas to look for my clothes which they had taken when they were in such a hurry to get away.  I had been in dungarees all the time.  I looked in the bag and my clothes were not there.  They, in their hurry, threw mine out to get to their own as mine were on top. 

          “Q      Did you in any way mark this spot where you buried the other material?

          “Q      (By Dasch) What other material?

          “Q      You said you buried something else?

          “A      No, I don’t know.  The shovels!  What did they do with the shovels?  I left there after the boxes were covered.  I covered them with my hands and it might have

1234

been shovels that were buried as they were still laying there.  I just don’t remember.  I was so mad at them because of everything that had happened.  They were shivering with fright as we had almost drowned while landing.  It was dark and foggy and you could hear the roar of the surf all around us.  The waves rolled over us and we were thrown around like a nutshell.

          “Q      You said that each man, while he was back in school at Quentz, had to prepare a story as to his identity and so forth.

          “A      That is right.

          “Q      Are you acquainted with the stories of your own men only, or do you know about Kerling’s group too?

          “A      No.  Let us start with my own men.  I had orders from Lieutenant Kappe to take personal charge and help to create in the minds of those boys’ identities which could possibly stand up before any questioning in the United States.  Therefore when I got hold of this Pete, I spoke to him in English directly.  He went outside and walked down toward the lake and talked a little bit.  I told myself that he was a Dutchman in his speech the moment he opened his mouth.  Anyone would know that he was a Dutchmen, but I looked at him again.  I told him that he looked Jewish and that he was going to be a Jewish immigrant.  He said that would be wonderful as when he was in the internment camp he had met a number of Jewish people who had given him the names of people to contact in America when he got out of the camp.  He still has those names.  Either in his mind or written down somewhere.  I opened that question again last Sunday afternoon and

1235

told him I was interested in knowing those names when it was necessary for me to know them.  I decided to make him a Jewish immigrant.  He was to claim that he was a citizen of the United States who had served two hitches in the National Guard, one in Wisconsin an I think the other in Michigan, or both in Wisconsin.  I decided that his name should remain Ernest Peter Burger because to name Burger could pass as a Jewish name.  He is a swarthy dark fellow with a little extended nose who could pass as a Jew.  I had then done my part for which I was commended by the lieutenant.

          “Q      If any of you were to be asked where you were born, how you came here, where you came from and how long you had been here, what would the answer be?

          “A      Burger would have to say that he was born on a day, I don’t recall the exact date, at Ausburg, Germany, the son of a physician (I don’t recall the name to be used for his father) named Burger, of Jewish parentage.  When asked if he were a modern or an orthodox Jew, he was to say he was a modern Jew.  The difference between the classes can easily be distinguished.  The modern Jew does not participate in their religious rites.  They are merely Jews and do not take part in religious ceremonies.  I did this so that he would not have to learn the Jewish religion.  He should say he had been in America and had never been anywhere else since he immigrated there.  He had his American citizenship papers right with him and has them today.

          “Q      How about Quintas?

 

1236

          “A      Dick Quintas was to say he was born in Lisbon, Portugal and came to the United States at the early age of six years.  His father left his mother in America.  He was to say he spent his boyhood in some up-state New York town and then went back to the City of New York and first learned the painting trade and then worked as a farm hand and dishwasher, traveling all over the country.  That is about the essence of his story.  I cannot remember the little details. 

          “Q      Was the story set up in such a way that it tied in with his natural life so it could be checked on if someone wanted to trace his life?  Could it be proved?

          “A      The stories, especially Quintas and Henry Kaynor as well as my own and the others, if they were to be put before a man with ordinary sense, could be shot full of holes.  I was not interested in getting anything too thoroughly set in their minds.  I was namely interested in carrying out orders as well as possible and when we got to America I could take the boys to the places where they were supposed to be born and any other places so they could become acquainted with them by actually being there and seeing everything.  They could then get the right surrounding in their minds and it would not be a visionary story but an actual story which they could only establish upon sight.  That was the argument I gave Lieutenant Kappe one Friday when he had us assemble in a lecture hall at the laboratory.  He sat us all down and then cross-examined us concerning where we were born, where our fathers were born, what schools we attended, what kind of work we had been

1237

doing, and where we were the past week.  The boys were stumped and did not know what to do.  He finally called me down and said I had done a poor job and told me to get the boys together and go over their stories.  I told him that I could not put an imaginary story into their heads as it could be shot full of holes.  I told him when we got here we could get real stories.  For instance, Kaynor came to me at a loss what to do concerning his story as he had been in the country about ten or twelve years and had never left New York.  He jumped around and never mingled with other Americans.  I told him he would be Polish, using the name Henry Kayner which could be Polish.  I told him he was born where there were a lot of Polish people, that is, Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania.  He had never heard of Wilkes-Barre and could not spell it.  I told him his father was Polish and his mother was German.  I put together something which could half believable.  I had no desire at any time that this should ever stick.  As long as I was able to make them believe it was sufficient.  I knew at that time that I would have the pleasure to be in front of you, Mr. Traynor, only I thought it would be in front of your boss, Mr. Hoover.

          “The following was dictated to Lucretia McDowell, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traynor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnston, on June 21, 1942.

          “Herby Haupt was born in Stettin, Germany, and emigrated to America with his parents.  I don’t know the exact date.  He was going to Lane High School and going to work for some farm.  He has never been in Germany.

1238

He left the United StatesChicago—to go to Mexico and now is returning from Mexico.  I argued at that time that he was very dangerous to me.  I still say he is a clever little fellow for 22 years if age.

          “Q      What about John Thomas?

          “A      John Thomas was an American.  Where was he born?  Christ sakes! It was in Pennsylvania.  John Thomas was born in Pennsylvania—in Walston, Pennsylvania.  I argued that time to Lieutenant Kappe that while I suggested that town the town did not exist as a town anymore.  It was a coal mining town in Pennsylvania and does not exist any more.  He lived some place in New York, 50th West to 92nd Street.  I mentioned that as I lived there years ago.  He has worked around all over this country—Los Angeles, San Francisco, Detroit, Chicago, Miami.  He has been around.  As to his exact story I could say nothing.  He belonged from the beginning to another group.

          “Q      You don’t know any more about Thomas’s story, other than that he was born in Pennsylvania and traveled about the country?

          “A      He actually is a mechanic but worked as a dishwasher, farm hand.  The way he wrote his story I ripped it apart and asked him if he didn’t have a bit of fantasy.

          “Q      What company was he going to use if asked where he worked?

          “A      None at all.  No company to identify him by.  You have to use a form of employment where you work in places which hardly keep records.  He worked as a farm helper, porter, dishwasher.

          “Q      What was he going to reply to question put to

1239

him as to when entered the country?

          “A      He was born in the country, never having left it.

          “This big fellow Neubauer, he is a Lithuanian—Nicholas.  I don’t know much about him.  He is a good chum of Kerling.  I stayed away from them.

          “Q      What about the cover story of Herman Nicholas?

          “A      He was born in Lithuania.  At one time he lived in Chicago with his mother.  He came to this country as a boy and went back to Lithuania in 1914, to what town I don’t know.  It was an occupied town—occupied by Germany during the last war.  That is where he learned to speak German.  After that his mother cam back to Chicago.  He worked as a cook.

          “Q      Do you know whether he was going to say he was employed by a particular firm? 

          “A      I don’t know what he would say.

          “Q      What would he give as his occupation or business?

          “A      I don’t know.  I couldn’t tell you.  Perhaps a cook.

          “Q      What is Kerling’s story to be?

          “A      He was born in San Francisco in 1906.  How old is the boy now?  Only 33 years of age.  He was born before the fire in San Francisco which was in 1906.  Lieutenant Kappe gave me orders to look up in the encyclopedia to find out when the fire was.  I asked him why and he said he needed it.  It is for the life story of that fellow Kerling.  We have to make him a few years older.  He was born in the spring and the fire was in the summer or fall.

1240

The records were destroyed.

          “Q      Where has he been since he was born, according to the story?

          “A      I could not tell you where he has been.  I can only repeat that I kept away from the boy as well as I could.  I spoke to him only of organization work between the two groups, but his story that was his business.  I had enough on my mind.

          “Q      Was Lieutenant Kappe satisfied with Kerling’s cover story?

          “A      I don’t know whether Lieutenant Kappe was satisfied with the cover stories of Kerling’s group.  I imagine he was or he would not have sent them away.

          “Q      He was dissatisfied with yours?

          “A      I gave him that argument—that he should give us a chance to get there and make up something real.  Any steps of that kind I deemed dangerous.  I had to watch my steps.

          “Q      With regard to the use of secret inks, were all of the men coming over here instructed in the use of secret ink?

          “A      Yes, sir.

          “Q      Do all of the eight men know the formula for the ink on that handkerchief?

          “A      They are supposed to know it but very few of them know it.  Very few were enthused about it.

          “Q      How many types are there?

          “A      There are three different formulas.  One using aspirin and something.  The other—plain water script, and the other some kind of medicine you buy—laxative.

1241

You use so many grains, add something, and you have the works.  You use a toothpick and cotton and start writing but you could never see it.  Had to write very thin.  You go over next line with a certain chemical again and it came back.  You went over with a little cotton on a stick and it appeared and disappeared a little later.  You could write on paper, silk, cotton, or linen.  When the question was asked of the so-called Professor whether any one of the secret inks would stand up under a chemical investigation he told us right then and there that this would not stand up.  If anyone would happen to find it would not stand up.  All of us from that minute on walked out and said, “To Hell with it.”

          “Q      What did you use on your handkerchief?

          “A      Just one minute.  On the handkerchief?  We used those three different types of secret writing—we gave each a name.  What names I don’t know at present.  The handkerchief is written with the first formula using aspirin.  I can promise you that in due time I shall get you all these formulas, either for one or from the other—part from this boy and part from one other.  I will check until I have them all.  Without any force—just clever move.

          “Q      Does the writing show up red in the use of all these formulas?

          “A      Red, yes, with the exception of the ordinary water.

          “Q      The formula used in writing on the handkerchief—that has to be created with another chemical?

 

1242

          “A      No.  After it was dry, ammonia.  I passed the handkerchief over a bottle of ammonia.  I was just standing in the laboratory and passed the handkerchief over a bottle and could read it right away.

1243

          “Q      When treated with ammonia the material shows up red?

          “A      Yes, that is correct.  Then it disappears again.  If it is treated with ammonia it shows up again.  It shows red until it dries.  You read it slowly and then it goes away again.  You have to do it slowly.  Just pass it over ammonia water.

          “Q      Was there any recommended solution of ammonia water?

          “A      I know nothing about chemicals.  Just use ordinary ammonia you buy anywhere.  Ammonia would also bring out the laxative type.  There was something about ashes.  Whether you write with ashes or get it out with ashes I don’t know.  We got this out of Quentz after we had already finished our explosive instructions.  We were no all ready to go home and get away.  That stuff was not any good anyway.

          “Q      Did you have any other instructions in secret writing?

          “A      No, sir.

          “Q      Did you get any instruction in any secret means of communication?

          “A      No.  Just happened to remember.  I was given on the day of my departure from the Professor a wooden match.  I had three of them.  I had three in New York, don’t know what I did with them.  I f I had my tobacco pouch I should have them.  If I threw it away should not have them.  I kept them there so as not to get them wet.  Eddie Kerling should have three matches.  You

1244

wrote the same as the others.  Merely go lightly over and only after a treatment with some chemical, the contents of which was not disclosed to us.  Then put under a violet ray, something like that, out on a switch and it showed up.  You put it in some paraphernalia.  It was treated first in some chemical.

          “Q      This is a special prepared match?

          “A      I could not tell you.  It was a match I was supposed to use to write to Lisbon – to them.  In the other stuff, the other formulas, those I should never use.

          “Q      It would not show up on paper?

          “A      It would only show on paper if you scratched too much.

          “Q      In writing to Lisbon were you supposed to write ordinary letters and write this separately?

          “A      Yes.  On the back.  If this is a sheet – I write on one side and the secret writing would go on the other side vertical.  If the letter is up and down, the secret writing would go on the back horizontal.  I am glad you mentioned that.

          “Q      Were they giving you any other secret methods of writing?

          “A      That is all.  About those matches – no one else knows outside of me and Kerling.  He is the only other fellow who knows about them.  I never told any of the boys about them.

          “Q      Will they light?

          “A      They will not ignite.  I asked that question myself.  Only camouflage.

 

 

1245

          “Q      For how long a period of time would one match write?

          “A      I don’t know.  Also Kerling questioned how long it would write.  I was away from Kappe, the people didn’t know me, there was a little girl there, and the Professor was half crazy any way.

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg, Federal Bureau of Investigation, on June 21, 1942, in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traynor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnstone:

          “Q      George, I would like to get from you your family history, that is the names of your mother and father and names and location of all your brothers and sisters.

          “A      My father, John Dasch, was born in Dudenhofen, Speyer County, on the 17th of March 1869.  My mother was born on the 12th of February, 1874 in Hellgenstien, also in Speyer County, the daughter of Peter Herrmann and my grandmother’s name, maiden name, was Clara DuBois.  My great grandfather on my mother’s side was in the War of 1812 with France.  My father is a cabinet maker.  I have never seen my father out of work.  My mother has always been a social worker.  After the war, in 1922, she was elected to the City Council on the Social Democratic ticket and in 1923 she came to the State Legislature of the town of Palatinate, a section of Bavaria on the left side of the Rhine.

          “Q      List the children in order of their birth.

          “A      My oldest sister is Clara Dasch.  In 1927 in the spring she entered the United States and remained

          1246

here until 1938 during which time she was employed at the Wyckoff Heights Hospital in Brooklyn, New York.  She is unmarried.  My next sister is Elizabeth Witzman.  Her husband is a postal clerk.  They have two little girls.  They live in Ludwigshafen on the Rhine.  The next girl is Anna Waldvogel.  She is married ever since 1923 to Joseph Waldvogel.  They have no children.  They live in Zurich, Switzerland.  My mother went to Switzerland in January, the 22nd I believe, to my sister Anna.  When she went to Switzerland I begged her to take two letters along – one to my wife in Bermuda and the other to that address in Michigan, asking my wife to denounce her German citizenship and get back where she belongs.  I figured that she had no guilt, no reason to be there.  And at the same time writing to the other people that they should initiate steps that she is taken back.  My sister Anna is a social worker to help all the refugees which are thrown out of Germany.  They are in the business for themselves and have a wholesale vegetable dealers business and are both citizens of Switzerland.  I told my mother I would write to her and use the name, the nickname that only the family knows me by ‘Knoppel’ (meaning small wiry boy). 

          “My brother, Joseph Dasch, is at present serving as an enlisted man in the German Navy.  When I was on furlough in January of this year I had the pleasure of meeting him at home.  He is a married man.  He lives at Ludwighafen and has no children.  He was last stationed in Holland.  He was formerly on the coast. 

1247

He rode a motorcycle.  He was a messenger.  He does not belong to the party.

          “The fifth child is George John Dasch.  The next child was a girl named Margaret.  She is married to a Swiss citizen by the name of Gottlieb and his last name is Gebert.  They live in Switzerland.  They have two children, a girl and a boy.  He is a building contractor.  I haven’t seen him since 1931.

          “The next one is Johanna Nunn.  She lives at present at College Point, New York, is married to a German boy by the name of Adolf Nunn.  Both are citizens of this country.  They have one child.  He works at the Lily Cup Paper Company in College Point as a mechanic.  He is not a member of the Bund and has never had anything to do with German society.  The two kids worked together at Horn and Hardart in New York City and got married.  He, through some friend, got to work maybe nine years ago at this paper cup company and moved out to College Point and bought himself a little house and has a little boy named Richard, and are living the life of everyday good citizens.  He thinks only of his mother and father, otherwise he has nothing to do with Germany. 

          “The next child is Lena, who is married, in 1930, to a Mexican citizen by the name of Louis Ugalde.  They have one child.  His name is Ramon.  Last year I think it was in April they went, the whole family, went back to Mexico City where they are today.  I don’t know what he works at.

1248

          “The next one is Marie Dasch.  She died in an automobile accident at the age of 18.  It was while I was in Honolulu in 1927.

          “Next comes my brother Ernst Dasch, who lives in Astoria.  The number I do not know.  The house is nearby Dykeman Street.  He has an apartment on the fourth floor of an apartment house.  He came to this country in August, 1930, because my wife and myself took him off the boat.  He has been a citizen since 1936.  I can honestly say he has been a law-abiding citizen in this country.  He is at present employed in a shipyard as a machinist.  He is married to an American-born girl.  Works in Brooklyn.

          “I have furthermore two sisters married in Switzerland.  One is Betty.  She is married to a Swiss citizen and has two children.  Hedwig is married also to a Swiss citizen and has one child.  Betty lives in Zurich and Hedwig was living in Hargen.  Her husband was a butcher by trade.

          “I have my sisters in Germany, Clara, Elizabeth, and my brother.  I have four sisters in Switzerland, one in Mexico, one in New York, and myself in Washington, D.C.  One brother in New York City. 

          “Q      Is the information written on Kerling’s handkerchief written in secret ink, the same as yours?

          “A      He wrote his handkerchief in the place at the same hour with the same ink as I did with the same material.

1249

          “The following was dictated to Ellen E.  Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traynor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnstone, on June 22, 1942:

          “Q      Why were you familiar with the island where you landed?

          “A      Because I lived there, the year I cannot remember.  I lived there with my wife three months, maybe it might have been four months.  I lived in South Hampton at Morningside Lane, or something like that at a place where we had a furnished apartment with some good old Swedish woman.  That woman had two sons, I remember, and one of their names was Alfred and happened to be a little fair boy.  While there I worked on one occasion at an inn when the Long Island Chamber of Commerce had an outing where former Governor Alfred Smith was present.  I worked at South Hampton at various places.  I worked at the Watermill Inn in Watermill every Saturday for a month or six weeks.  My little woman was also working.  I was busted and my little woman found a job and was working as a hairdresser for a fellow called Nick, an Italian, in South Hampton.  I went around and did all kinds of work.  After all, I was a man and did not like to have the little woman working all the time.  I also worked on one occasion in East Hampton at a place called Oaks Inn for a Jewish fellow by the name of Alfred, I cannot recall the last name.  I often played pinochle with him.

          “When the question came up back in Berlin where to

1250

land, I was very much concerned about landing in a sake place where I knew the surroundings so that I would be able to land and get here safely, understand, because it would have been an awful thing not to land after having gone through that.  I went through it all in order to land.  I had to make sure to land in a place where I knew a little bit about the surroundings.  When I suggested my plan that I would like to land there, Lieutenant Kappe said he would go to the Navy Intelligence and have that checked to find out if the beach would be suitable for a good landing.  Then he came back and said ‘George, the landing place you picked out is wonderful.  It is a long beach.’  I said it suited me.  I was also given preference to land somewhere on the Jersey coast near Ocean Beach, but I did not know this section so I suggested going to South Hampton or East Hampton.

          “Q      First you mentioned the north shore.  Why the north instead of the south?

          “A      The south shore I hardly knew.  I knew the north shore better than the south because on the north shore I worked at Centerport, Long Island, Stoneybrook, and I used to ride around Riverhead while I was learning to drive a car.  That was my first automobile back in 1925 when I worked at the Blue Bird Inn.  I would drive around after work in the evening learning to drive.  I also worked at Centerport for a Mrs.  Hall at Hall’s Inn.  That was away back, I cannot remember, in 1924 or 1925.

1251

          “I was interested in landing; that is the main thing, and undoubtedly it is sound reasoning if you land where you know exactly the surroundings, you would know exactly what to do to get away safely.  I figured everything would be all right if I was able to land.  I could get hold of the boys and then come down here.

          “Q      Were they trying to land on the north shore?  On the sound?

          “A      No, under no consideration.  I don’t think they had any maps of that because the map I saw when I sat in the submarine with the captain showed the south coast of land and I told them this was the spot where I wished to land, between East Hampton and toward Watermill or between East Hampton and Amagansett, somewhere around that beach, because we used to go swimming there.

          “Q      How far out were you when you got off the boat?

          “A      I venture to say we were about four hundred meters which would be equivalent to twelve hundred yards off shore.  The captain used the following procedure which is explained to me: When we were about forty or fifty miles away from the shore, which was on June 12 in the morning, he said he was going to make this run regardless of the danger we might run into.  It was very foggy that day.  He said if a destroyer should happen to come our way we might be run down, but he was going to take this risk and go right on.  We went on from that morning until around eight o’clock at night, New York

1252

time.  We had three different time, Berlin time, war time, which was two hours behind the other time, and New York time.  I always figured by New York time and had the boys set their watches to that time.  We submerged and lay on the bottom.  I know it was the bottom because the boat fell back and forth and the boys said we were in America.  In order to steady the boat which was tossed around by the underwater current, they floated an additional air tank so that the boat would rest heavier on the bottom of the ocean.  I think we were around eleven miles off the coast, somewhere between nine and eleven miles – I cannot exactly figure it.  At around eleven o’clock New York time we came to the surface and continued at slow speed with the A. machine, which you could hardly hear.  This is an electric machine, not a diesel motor.  We approached slowly in the thickest of fog and the darkest of night.  When I went upstairs the captain asked me what I thought about the night and I said, ‘Why, Christ, this is perfect.’  You could not se fifty feet ahead.  I went downstairs and gave the boys instructions to get ready for the landing.  Some of the crew members were instructed at my request to put handles of rope on the boxes of dynamite so we could carry them and get everything ready.  I think it was around one or one thirty New York time when the Captain, who had been in the conning tower with his watch consisting of another officer and three of the crew members, sent word downstairs to get ready.  A moment later he came down and we had one more drink together and repeated the instructions we had been given at the last conference as to how

1253

to land.  Then he told us to come up and he gave orders for the sailors to take everything out.  Some of the sailors had a little rowboat in the water pumped up.  I was the last one to get into the boat, and I begged the captain once more to order his boys not to say anything about all this.  There were two big husky sailors around twenty-two or twenty-three years in the rowboat.  There were six of us in the boat altogether.  When we left the submarine there was a thin rope tied on the side of the rubber boat and as we rowed on the line was fed out of the submarine so that when the boys were finished on land, the boat could be pulled back to the submarine.

          “Another thing I wish to relate: I venture to say it was about one hour after we had landed that I heard a noise of motors and I told the boys that this meant only one of two things, either there was some form of patrol boat passing out near the shore, or it was the submarine going full speed ahead, understand.   It was one of the two, I don’t know which.

          “Q      Tell us what you did after you got the stuff stowed away and went to catch the train, or have you told about that?

          “A      Yes, everything has been told before – which way I went and everything.

          “Q      George, tell us about the instructions you received regarding contacting official German officers in this country with regard to leaving the country or returning to Germany, or any instructions you received

1254

along that time.

          “A      The question you have just put to me is not correct, because if you ask me the following question I can answer you: What kind of instructions did you receive from the German High Command in regard to returning to Germany when the war has ended or when your mission has ended?  We were given the following instructions which we had to keep under all circumstances.  In case we wished to return to Germany after the war or after we had fulfilled our mission and were then able to go into a neutral country on the Western Hemisphere, we were forbidden to go to any German Embassy or Consulate or to any other German official office in any place or country of our travel to ask for help in a financial or other way by disclosing our part of the mission.  We could tell them any kind of a story in case we needed help, financial or otherwise, but at no time were we allowed to disclose our mission.  We were held to the oath we had given not to disclose this as long as we lived to anyone.  We were advised to proceed to the next representative of the German Army or Navy and then state that we belonged to C-1.  That would be sufficient explanation and then action would be taken so that we could proceed in the right channels.  This was only in case we ever wanted to go back to Germany after the war.  In other words, say for instance that the war should last two or three more years and we have all lost contact with one another because a group of us might be eliminated, dead or in

1255

jail or something like that, and say one of us would be able to leave the country and go to, say Chile which is a neutral country.  Now he would not be able to go to the German Embassy in Chile and say that he was a member of Intelligence-2 and was fortunate enough to get back there and would now like help to go on further.  We were not able to do that under any circumstances.  We could not do that because we could not prove that we were German citizens as we did not have any papers.  We had to use any kind of a story to get assistance to get home.  After we reached the German border or countries occupied by German Naval or Military troops, then we could go to the next officer and tell him that we wished to be sent to C-1.

          “(Questioning continued concerning the countersigning of the Social Security and Registration Certificate cards.)

          “Q      Did you fill them in ink?

          “A      Yes, in ink with my own pen.

          “(Mr. Dasch was then asked to write the names of the members of his groups several times on a separate sheet of paper just as he had written them on the cards.  Mr. Dasch did this and this slip of paper is attached to the next page, of the original only.)”

          (The following names are written in the order given in handwritings:)

“Herby Haupt

“Herby Haupt

“Herby Haupt

1256

“John Quintas

“John Quintas

“John Quintas

“Henry Kaynor

“Henry Kaynor

“Henry Kaynor

“Henry Nicholas

“Henry Nicholas

“Henry Nicholas

“Eddy Kelly

“Edward Kelly

“Edward Kelly

“Ernest Peter Burger

“Ernest P.  Burger

“Thomas

“Thomas

“Thomas

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Fogg, FBI, in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traynor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnstone, on June 22, 1942:

          “Q      George, go back to the landing.  What personal equipment did you bring ashore?  When you brought ashore these packages of explosives and duffle bag.

          “A      No, sir, we brought along on shore outside the four bags of ammunition, we brought a bag of civilian clothes and two army spades.

          “Q      Were your money bags and money belts, things of that nature, in the duffle bag?

1257

          “A      Each man was given by me before we started to land $419 in cash money.  I also handed over to each man his money belt containing $4,000.  All of the other money was in that Gladstone bag.  That Gladstone bag with the clothes was in that duffle bag.  I entrusted onto Peter Burger with the advice to sit still and hold onto those two belongings.

          “Q      There were actually your suitcases, this duffle bag, and explosives?

          “A      That is correct.

          “Q      Were all the money bags alike?

          “A      Yes, all alike.  As a matter of fact after the money bags were distributed and came into my possession in L’Orient I had each boy to try it on and had each man put his initial at the end of the money belt because belts were made according to waistlines.

          “Q      Were they the initials of his alias?

          “A      Yes.

          “Q      Does each of the men so far as you know still have his money belt?

          “A      I couldn’t tell you.

          “Q      Was it a possibility these boys would put money in bank?

          “A      I have given Pete Burger the advice last Sunday afternoon or Monday whatever it was, to try and induce Henry Kaynor and Richard Quintas to get rid of at least $2,000 into a safe place where they are being able after their liberation takes place that they are able to get hold of that money so that when those

          1258

fellows are able to go back to their wives and children they would have some money.

          “Q      Did they do that?

          “A      I don’t know.  I told them that on Wednesday, that was it, not Sunday or Monday.  It was the middle of the week.  This I did for the sole purpose of seeing in the person a human being after he has been interned or having taken his punishment for the undertaking he was sent to this country that when the time will come that he has to go back to the wife and little children.

                                                  1259

          “Q      Did you ever put any money away like that?

          “A      No sir.  Every cent I have with the exception of the clothes and daily life is right with me.

          “Q      Did Pete Burger put any money away like that?

          “A      I told Pete Burger not to worry about his money. 

That I was quite sure that he will not be punished because I know he came to America the same reason that I and I will be delighted to be able to bring to places that he can prove his knowledge, that this knowledge will be used for the best purpose of fighting them.

          “Q      Then, none of your men pooled money together and were going to put in possession of one fellow?

          “A      No sir.  I had no such idea and I did not find any practical reason for such an idea.  My idea was to keep the fellows happy so that in due time I could get hold of them.  That was part of the plan which I laid down already months and months before which I had worked out in my mind the best possible way.

          “Q      Where is your Gladstone bag?

          “A      I disposed of that and deposited it into the room 1421 in the Governor Clinton Hotel after having put in that dirty bag some of my belongings such as underwear, shirts, socks, and handkerchiefs.  I had found that the bag was very filthy from the water had hit the bag in order to keep my clothes clean I got two laundry bags and put them in the bag and closed and looked for the chamber maid and requested her to close the door.  And I put also two suits and two pairs of socks in that clothes 

                                                                                                                 1260

closet called up the bellboy and said ‘ I am checking out on my way to Washington.’

          “Q      Yesterday, you mentioned these three matches you had placed in your tobacco pouch.  Was that pouch on your person when you landed?

          “A      Yes, because I had my share of cash money in the sum of $419.  I wish to retract that statement, it was $409 in that bag, the reason it was only $409 was that I gave the cook on board the ship when I said farewell to him, I gave him in a quiet way a $10 bill and he said ‘By Christ if I had a little more courage I would go right with you boys.’  I asked him, ‘For what?’  He said, ‘Because I am sick and tired of shooting other people.  I want to go out and do something constructive.’

          “Q      What did you have in your tobacco pouch besides the money and matches?

          “A      I had in the tobacco pouch before the money always to carry the three matches and handkerchief.  I put the handkerchief into my coat pocket on the outside.  Just so it would appear to be a dress handkerchief.  But I had a pencil with a clip and held that handkerchief.  That pencil I have lost.  Also my little notebook which was in there.  It must be laying there on that beach somewheres.  The pouch looks like a small leather tobacco pouch I had bought in Berlin, it had a zipper.  A brown leather pouch.  This I can state.  I believe I took the money out and threw it away.  I don’t know where it is.  I though

1261

those three matches had no value whatsoever because I had no intention to use them.  Even in Berlin when they were given to me.  I said to myself, ‘Boys, you should only know how worthless those matches are to me.’

          “Q      They were given to you in Berlin?

          “A      Yes, in Berlin at the Laboratory of the German High Command or German Staff, I don’t know, whatever it is called.

          “Q      Do you recall when it was you took the money $409 out of the tobacco pouch?

          “A      Yes, what that sailor or Coast Guard man approached me and I could not see ant way clear to get rid of the boy and see a safe landing which gave me the assurance to go to Washington without having been caught and then have to tell my story which would have put me in an unhealthful spot.  I had to find a way although I was instructed by the Captain that in case I should come across an interference I should attack the interference and put it on the boat with the sailors and they would take it out to the submarine and they would then dispose of it in their own way.  When that sailor approached me that came right into my mind ‘I can’t do that.”  I didn’t want to live under such circumstances.  For a moment a thousand ideas went into my mind.  There I said ‘Boy, you have got to take graft.  I said to him, ‘I know we did something unlawful.  We disobeyed the law, but undoubtedly it can be straightened out and you will forget it if I

                                                                                                              1262    

take care of you.’  He said ‘no, and I can’t do that.’  I told him ‘Boy, you wish to live don’t you?  You have a father and mother home.  You have done your duty.  I now tell you will do your duty by accepting this money I am going to give you and you will hear from me in Washington.  What is your name boy?’ And he said ‘Frank Collins,’ and I told him my name is ‘George John Davis, and you will hear from me in Washington, D.C.  And he said, ‘Yes sir, now please get away from the beach.’  I gave him $300 and I asked him what he is going to do with this money and he told me he will put some in the bank and give some to his mother and then have a good time on some.  I got this out of the tobacco pouch.  I give him a little over $200 and walked over to him and to be sure that he was given free passage and I said ‘Kindly put your flashlight on the money I have given you,’ and I think it was $220 or $230 and I went to my pocket and got my pouch out and gave him an additional to make $300.

          “Q      Did he turn the flashlight on and count the money himself or did you count it?

          “A      I gave him the money under the little light and then I gave him more to make up the $300.  But I asked him what he intended to do with it.

          “Q      Did he count that $220 for you?

          “A      I merely asked him how much money I gave him.

          “Q      What were the denominations?

          “A      Three or four fifty-dollar bills, some $20

                                                                                                              1263

bills and $10 bills.  When I gave him the money first and I soon he would take it I went quickly to my pocket and got the pouch and gave him the big bills and figured that was two or three hundred dollars.  Then I seen that he stood there yet and was kind of worried himself and I was not quite sure I was successful that I had bribed the poor kid and told him to put the flashlight on the money.

          “Q      By moneybag you mean tobacco pouch?

          “A      Yes.

          “Q      Do you recall that you took the rest of your money out of the tobacco pouch?

          “A      No, sir.  At this time after the boy walked toward the station, I rushed right out on the beach and there I seen the boys in correction in an uproar and trying to locate their clothes and put them on.  We were all wet.  They had taken off their shoes.  So I said to the boys ‘Now never mind about dressing, it takes years to dress bums.’ And I went in the east inward direction from the place we just about landed until we reached a gully right in the sand dunes and there I said ‘Lets get going.’ And I started going.  And I said ‘Dig, let’s get that evidence right down here.’

          “Q      Did you have your money pouch or tobacco pouch in your pocket at that time?

          “A      I couldn’t tell you.  I think I had it.

          “Q      Where did you get the money to buy the tickets, the railroad tickets I mean?

1264

          “A      Out of the $109 left.

          “Q      Did you take that out of the tobacco pouch?

          “A.     No sir.  I had the money in a roll so when I went and bought the tickets, in fact I bought four tickets to Jamaica.  I think the ticket was $5.10 and that is where I got the first silver.

          “Q      You didn’t take this money to pay for your tickets out of your tobacco pouch?

          “A      I am quite certain I did not have that tobacco pouch.

          “Q      Which pocket fit you carry it in?

          “A      The left pocket of my old pants.  All the evidence which I wanted to bring here was mostly that handkerchief.  On that I held all my mind and when I finally got to the station and I realized that I had left it on the beach the following things namely: I think a package of German cigarettes, a bottle of German whiskey, my note book and my pencil.  I didn’t tell anything to the boys of the things I had in the notebook.  But I said right away ‘I have lost the address over which I knew I could get in contact with my little wife.’

          “Q      Was this bottle of whiskey and other material also in the duffle bag?

          “A      No, I think the bottle was one of the boy’s without me knowing it.  The same way with the cigarettes I believe it was Henry Kaynor who took that lousy bottle on shore for he loves his whiskey.  And I gave him hell.  I wanted to get rid of all evidence and I wanted to be allowed to come here and tell my story.  

                                                                                                              1265

 “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Donald Oden, FBI, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, Frank Johnston, and N. D. Wills, Special Agents, on June 22, 1942:

          “Q      (By Johnston) One little question – do you feel in your own mind absolutely positive that you gave this little fellow exactly $300?

          “A      Exactly the $300.

          “Q      You are absolutely positive?

          “A.     Yes, I counted it in front of the little light and I gave him $300, and to my way of reasoning I knew that I had helped in that very action I made undoubtedly a good loyal son of a good father and mother and made a criminal out of him, and I shall do everything in my power, even at the expense of additional punishment, to clarify this boy because I think to my way of representation and the way I approach him he believed that I am an official in Washington.  I had him buffaloed, in other words.  But still for a moment I said to myself--.  ‘You take orders from Washington.  You hear from me from Washington.’ I don’t know what the kid was doing.  Maybe as he walked away, he figured, ‘What kind of a guy was that guy?’ Something like that never occurred to him, or maybe the lousy $300, maybe that made him crazy for a moment.  I still don’t think the boy is a bad guy.

          “Q      (By Traynor) George, after you landed and buried this material, did you change your clothes at that time?

                                                                                                              1266

          “A      Not yet, I was the very last man to change clothes.  After I have buried the four boxes, I said, ‘Now where are my clothes please?’  And in the dark night and fog the way it was we went to the bag and there were none of my clothes.  I think merely my shoes and one or two socks.  When I came to the station I had two different pair of socks on.  But my jacket was left behind on the bench, and I said to the two boys, ‘You dumb fools.  Now you remain here and dig in that bag.’  I took of my dungarees – I think I took the dungarees off right there.  Wait a minute, I didn’t do that.  I asked this fellow Dick Quintas to follow me exactly and show me whereabouts they exchanged their clothes, because I hadn’t been with them.  I had gone back down to the beach to help the sailor boys get the water out of their boat and see that they got going again.  And then I had the incident with this other fellow.  All during that time the boys undressed.  Finally when I came together with them again, I see they were still trying to undress.  I said, ‘Come on, let’s get going.’  And then they left my belongings behind and I went back with Dick Quintas and finally found the clothes I took them back and undressed.

          “Q      Where did you take them back to?

          “A      Right to the place I told the boys to stay, next to the place where we buried the four boxes.  When I get back there I’ll show you everything.  I will find the boxed somewhere around not deep in

                                                                                                              1267

the sand and all the other things.  Then perhaps when I’m there, things will come back better into my mind. 

          “Q      What clothes did you put on?

          “A.     I had a pair of slacks, Scotch tweeds.

          “Q      Where were they made?

          “A      I bought them in Maceys and Company for the purpose of having something to wear to play golf in.  So was my little jacket.

          “Q      What does the jacket look like?

          “A      The jacket was a brown jacket I bought at Howard Brothers I think, cheap stuff.

          “Q      Did it have sleeves in it?

          “A      Yes it had sleeves.  I also had a little sweater with a zipper.  There was a little pocket in it up high with a zipper.  In that pocket I had the handkerchief so that I could not lose it. 

          “Q      Did you have any other clothes besides the pants and sweater?

          “A      I had a tie.  Whether I put that on, I couldn’t tell you.  And I had a slouch hat on all of us had swimming pants on underneath.  I put on my clothes.  I had my money belt and my underwear on – American underwear, also the swimming pants.  Those swimming pants I took off my body nearby the station in the early morning around five o’clock in Amagansett.  I put those pants right near by the station and threw them in the bushes.  Because I was soaked through and through and shivering – you can imagines.  I said to them, ‘Well we got this far.  Let’s

                                                                                                              1268

go to New York, get clothes.’  I wanted to get those guys where I could hold them and then beat it down to Washington.

          “Q      When you landed, what did you have on?

          “A      I had an undershirt, a little pair of white drawers, the money belt, my sweater, the little American sweater, red sweater with sleeves, woolen sweater with zipper, and, oh yeah, a pair of beach sandals, a pair of white socks, and my slouch hat on, and those dungarees.

          “Q      What about the swimming trunks?

          “A      And the swimming trunks underneath.

          “Q      Underneath your trunks?

          “A      Yes.  Hold it!  I didn’t have any trunks on.  I didn’t have any trunks but undershirt I had on.  And I had my undershirt rolled up underneath the money belt, figuring that I might have to go into the water up to my hips on the landing.  As a matter of fact we were soaking wet while we were still on the boat.  I had a long oar in my hands.  I sat in the back and when we touched bottom, I said ‘Now, boys, once more!’

          “Q      When you landed you had on a pair of swimming trunks?

          “A      That is right.

          “Q      An undershirt?

          “A      Right.

          “Q      White socks and tennis shoes?

          “A.     Right.

          “Q      What color?

                                                                                                              1269

          “A      They are all white.  No, they were a grayish color.  They were made out of duck and rubber soles.  I bought those shoes in Long Beach in the summer of 1940.

          “Q      Did you have shirt on?

          “A      No shirt.

          “Q      You had a pair of dungarees?

          “A      Yes, pants and a little French jacket or whatever it was which the Captain gave me.  The one with the buttons I received in Berlin.  I didn’t have it on.  It was on the boat.  I also gave my heavy shoes – those boots I received – not the hip boots.  The boots I received in Berlin, I gave away to one of my boys on the submarine.  I told him, ‘You may need that.’ I was tickled pink to get away from it. 

          “Q      Were the other boys dressed similarly?

          “A      Exactly what they had underneath, I couldn’t tell you because I expected them to be smart enough to wear --- I don’t worry about that.  After all, they are men.  They should know what they need.  I figured this landing might be a wet party and I gave them instructions.  I couldn’t supervise the whole thing. 

          “Q      When you landed did you take off any of your clothes?

          “A      No, sir, I was the last man to get out of the boat.

          “Q      When you were talking with the Coast Guard man?

                                                                                                              1270

          “A      No sir, I had the slouch hat on, the little tennis shoes, and those green, gray dungarees, the pants separate, and the coat, I had that on. 

          “Q      You didn’t have a jacket on at that time?

          “A.     You mean the sweater?  I had that on underneath.

          “Q      You talked about a jacket. 

          “A.     What jacket?

          “Q      The jacket the Captain gave you.

          “A      That is the little French coat I think.  It looked like a coat a mechanic would wear – long sleeves and a belt around it and buttons.  Not military buttons.

          “Q      What was it made out of?

          “A.     Out of that green, gray – the same thing as the dungarees, you know, cotton.  They are something out there.  You can see the whole works.

          “Q      Now then, you buried the explosives and then you went back up the ridge some place and changed into clothes?

          “A      I wanted to change into clothes, but I found out that they had left some of my clothes on the ridge.  So I went back with Dick Quintas to feel my way along and found them and came back and changed my clothes.  After I had my clothes taken off, and I think also the wet socks and those little shoes, I said, ‘Now put these in the bag and bury the bag.’

          “Q      You still had on your swimming trunks?

          “A      That is right.

          “Q      Your undershirt?

          “A      Right.

                                                                                                              1271

          “Q      Your money belt?

          “A      Yes, and my sweater.

          “Q      How about the jacket the Captain gave you?

          “A      That I put in the bag. 

          “Q      What else did you put on over the material?

          “A      Then I put on my shoes, two socks, my shoes, American shoes, brown shoes bought from Regal sometime ago, and my slacks, Scotch tweeds, and my brown jacket, a shirt, it was a sport shirt.  I have got the shirt home yet.  I had the shirt washed.  I have still got it.  I took it to the laundry.  Because I wanted, in case I am stopped with that bag, I wanted to have something in that bag in order to say, ‘Well, I have been fishing,’ or whatever it is.  I didn’t want to be stopped by any officer of the law under any consideration.  See?  I had also in my mind when we were sitting there on that railroad station waiting for a train.  The station was not opened and I could not locate a timetable and nobody came near the station already it was near six o’clock.  So I told the boys, ‘Maybe the train was not running as far down as Montauk Point.’ So I reasoned in my own mind, ‘Jesus it wouldn’t be a bad idea to go across – I saw a house where it said “ restaurant”.’  I figured there must be a telephone.  I thought for a moment I would go over there and call Washington directly.  I figured, ‘No, maybe we are not getting away from here,’ because in my plan – according to my plan, those boys should never know that I am a stool pigeon who delivered them – for the

                                                                                                              1272

sake of security not only of my life, that I can keep on working, but also for the sake of the security of lives of my brother and sister and mother.

          “(Traynor left the room at this point)

          “How could I possibly do the next step correctly so that I can come to Washington and at the same time keep the truth away from the others.  At that time even from Pete Burger because I did not know exactly who Pete Burger was then.  The day I opened with him, slowly little by little he came out.  I told him the truth and said, ‘Tell me the truth.  We are up here in the 14th floor of this building and there are two windows in this room.  If you don’t tell me, I will throw you out this window.’  I then told him who I was.  The poor kid broke out crying.  I had an idea but I couldn’t believe it. 

          “Q      (by Johnston) When did he first tell you about himself?

          “A      He said five or six words once, one sentence he said, in which I see the whole other part of this boy.  Namely, in Quentz on the first Saturday we were in Quentz at the school, after I had known him four days.  When we walked over to the restaurant, he said, ‘Those dirty bastards certainly beat me up bad and I like to ---.’  ‘Keep your trap shut, ‘I said.  I didn’t even let him finish that sentence.  I said Pete, do me one favor.  The time will come and the place will come when I shall ask you to reopen what you just

                                                                                                              1273

had on your mind.  Now don’t say nothing.’  I reasoned at that time, any boy who spent 17 months in a concentration camp and was given a chance to participate in this undertaking for the purpose of making good again, that boy had only one chance and choice, either to take part in it or you die.  Understand?  It doesn’t take very much reasoning to come to that conclusion.

          “Q      What day did he open up and tell you all about himself?

          “A      That was Sunday, last Sunday.

          “Q      The day after you landed?

          “A      You put that question wrong.  You ask me what day did he open up- that you two agreed to turn it in.  He had at no time over told me his story or his desire to turn it in.  That far I have never gotten with him.  I had no desire to.

          “Q      Does he know you are down here?

          “A      Why certainly.  Which way I wanted to get even, in which way he wanted to participate in his way, I don’t know.  The fact that I established last Sunday – I proved to myself last Sunday what I heard him say in one sentence.  That he is the boy who came here to this country not for the purpose of following his mission, but to get away from them, to fight them in his own way.  What plan he worked out in his mind I do not know.  But when after I had disclosed my plan, ‘Boy, I know you are taking a great risk, might not be believed, might have a hard time proving what you say.  

   1274

You are sincere.  But boy, go right to it, because we are not afraid to die.  I was confronted with that many a time.  But we want to live to work together and I know this kid, Christ sakes.  He has so much above me in knowing the inside, the actually inside dirty story of Nazi clique, that I said to him.  ‘Kid you are a godsend.  God brought us together.  We are going to make a team.  What you know I will try in my way to bring over back to them.  Something the whole people don’t know.  And if we cannot help them open their eyes and help create a revolt, than nothing will help them.  Because it is quite certain that this war is being fought with all kinds of weapons—infiltration is a strong weapon Hitler has used, and if this side does not use it to the best of ability in every inch of material, then I merely call them damned fools.

                                                                                                              1275

          “Because if lives are saved and this war is finished sooner with this weapon, then I think, and I may be able to partake in it, then I think, ‘Boy, you have at least done something in your life.’  Try and follow me.  This is not an idea merely three weeks old.  This is an idea that is eight months old – eight long months, built up and made stronger.  I got all the evidence every day and it became stronger because I saw every day in my life I looked and observed and studied to find reasons, definite proof, that the bastards had to be fought, and be sure about it.  I had to take my life many times out of my hands.  By going in there in Germany to gather data, to find out the really truthful morale of the German people, to go among workers, farmers, business people and industrialists.  I had a splendid opportunity.

          “First on a Thursday, May 5, Monday was the 11th, I had to go back to Berlin—on Saturday the 9th and on the day before, Friday the 8th of May it was, with a person who has a shoe factory where he employs over 600 people.  I listened to his side of the story and I found sufficient evidence out of the explanation the man has entrusted upon me, after which I was introduced to Walter Merdian, whom I have known in this country from 1929 and 1930, that this group of people, that as a money man, as a factory owner, he was just as dissatisfied and disgusted with the Hitler Party and the whole war and everything else.  And the following night I happened to go to Dudenhofen, the town right close by my home town,

                                                                                                              1276

Spayer on the Rhine.  I was invited by little Walter Merdian, who is in the trucking and transportation business there.  There, after having dinner with those people, the ladies retired.  Mr. Walter, the senior chief of the company, his two sons are around 43 or 46 years of age about—we sat over a bottle of wine and cigars and spoke until around four o’clock in the morning.  What did we speak about?  The shameful tactics of the Nazis!  Taking away the personal liberty of the people, the freedom of initiative, the lowering of the morale of the German people, the lying propaganda about successes in Russia.  We spoke about the possibilities of an organized revolt in Germany.  I at this time told him, ‘You German people deserve a licking.  You have got to suffer more than you already have, because only by this suffering will you, when the time is right, become a nation amongst nations, amongst peaceful nations.  Then you will see the light, not sooner.  Until you have suffered enough, then you will get rid of your crazy idea of race superiority.

Until such a time has come, and that can only come by suffering, will you be ripe to become peaceful people in this world.’ They expressed to me their way of reasoning which was contrary to my way, but fundamentally they knew something had to be done.  I left that place at four ‘clock in the morning, satisfied at having found out additional evidence, but scared to hell that those people at the very end would turn me in to Gestapo.  At any moment I might be grabbed.  As my mother said, ‘You cannot trust anyone here in this Germany.  They’re

                                                                                                              1277

all scared of each other.  My son, I cannot sleep for nights because I am scared of you and your foolish talk.

          “(At this point Johnston again took over the questioning)

          “Q      There are a few little things I want to get from you today.  The first thing, your story of the landing in detail; exactly where you were, what kind of clothes each of the boys has on when they left the landing, where these clothes were made, the exact routes you took, where you went into Amagansett and then into Jamaica, and the exact spot in Jamaica you disposed of the clothes?

          “A      All right.  In the respect I can only repeat again what to my remembrance I have already stated the first day I was here.  To the best of my recollection, I stated the exact route we took, the way of our landing, and the exact steps.  Everything was gone over with the exception of what kind of clothes the others wore.  That is a new question.  This I am ready at this time to answer to the best of my recollection.  Henry Kaynor had on an American suit, grayish stripes.

          “Q      Wait a minute, is that after you had buried--?

          “A      That is right.

          “Q      Go ahead.

          “A      Henry Kaynor had a gray striped suit and a gray slouch hat on, felt hat.

          “Q      Can you give us anything further on Henry Kaynor?

That is more detail?

          “A      I couldn’t tell you.

          “Q      He had a shirt and tie?

          “A      I couldn’t tell you that either.  They had silk

 

                                                                                                              1278

          American ties, American clothes, but exactly what color I couldn’t tell you.  But the suit I know; it was a gray striped suit.  This fellow Dick Quintas had a brown gabardine suit with a dark brown shirt and a red tie and no hat.  Little Pete Burger had also a little gray suit, gray checkered, on.  He has got that suit still hanging when I left the hotel room.  When I put my clothes from Room 1424 to 1421, I noticed that suit still hanging in the closet.

          “Q      You got anything further on Pete Burger?

          “A      Pete Burger also had a pair of black shoes on, because I gave those shoes to my myself.  They were my shoes, American shoes, cheap shoes, black shoes.

          “Q      No hat either?

          “A      I don’t know what kind of tie he had on.  No hat though.  I know that.

          “Q      George, what was the source of all these clothes?  Did they belong to these men or were they given to them?

          “A      All right.  Little Pete Burger had been in Germany every since 1933 or 1934.  He did not have in his possession any American clothes at all.  He was given the suit by the fellow Kerling back in Berlin.  In order fir correctness I wish to stat the following: We were directed by Lieutenant Kappe to make a list of all American clothes—underwear, hat, shoes, socks, etc., we had to make a list of all American things.  Thereafter, the boys were asked whether they needed something.  Understand?  Then it was divided.  That is how I happened to give shoes away and I think I gave a shirt.  I know

 

                                                                                                              1279

I give shirts and underwear away.  Whether those boys had that on the day of landing, I do not know, with the exception that little Pete Burger had the shoes on, the black shoes I gave him.  My shoes and also Pete Burger’s shows were wrapped at the Regel Shoe Store in Jamaica.  They were wrapped in a piece of paper.  We both bought a new pair of shoes and socks there and we had the old pairs of shoes wrapped in paper.  Then we went out across the street on the corner and had our new shoes shined, and I asked the little nigger boy, ‘Boy, could you use a pair of shoes size 8 ½?  He said, ‘Yes sir, man.’  And I said, ‘Here they are.’  And I told Pete to give the other boy his shoes.  On the station in Amagansett that morning, I ripped a piece of cloth apart and pulled the threads out and then we got thread we had pants together.  I was reading a paper and held the paper over my busted pants and when I got outside I held the paper in my hands and kept the paper over my pants and I got out and went to the first store and bought myself a pair of pants.  And I exchanged my pants in a little booth in the store and left my old pants there.  And I felt a little better.

          “Q      Now, George, from the time you left the boxes where you buried them on the beach until you boarded the train at Amagansett Station, did the four of you dispose of anything else, clothing or any other packages?

          “A      Wait a minute.  I disposed of the little swimming pants and also of my – I remember now – also my tennis shoes, in the hedge which faces the bench of the station in Amagansett.  I put it right in the hedge.     

                                                                                                              1280

          “Q      The shoes and the trunks?

          “A      Yes.”—

The President.  We will pause now and take a recess of about ten minutes.

                    (At 3:15 p.m. an informal recess was taken, at the conclusion of which the following occurred:)

The President.  The Commission is open.

          (The reading of the statement of George John Dasch was resumed as follows:)

          “Q      Could you describe those trunks a little further as to color and texture?

          “A      A blue pain of flannel pants with white stripes and a belt.

          “Q      What color is the belt?

          “A      White belt with one of those question mark hooks.

          “Q      Was it a web belt?

          “A      Yes, I think it was.

          “Q      Those are the only things you disposed of before you got on the train?

          “A      That is right.

          “Q      To your knowledge did any of the other boys dispose of anything?

          “A      No.  The other boys had nothing to carry whatsoever.  I put some of the wet belongings, whatever I find, in the bag to carry along and when I got to the station early in the morning, we sat there and then I opened the bag and through some of the wet stuff out.  Maybe even a shirt.

          “Q      What bag?

                                                                                                              1281

          “A.     A Gladstone bag I carried.  I would get tired of carrying it and I would say to one of the boys, ‘You carry it for awhile.’

          “Q      We are trying to get what you threw away.  You didn’t throw anything else away? 

          “A      No, no.  If I did, I just can’t remember.

          “Q      What time did you get into Jamaica? 

          “A.     Nine o’clock or a minute or so after. 

          “Q      Could you give us a pretty accurate description of everything you did in Jamaica?  What we want to know is where the stores were located, and what you bought in them, when you left Jamaica for New York, everything clear up until you left Jamaica.

          “A      I have told the boys in Amagansett when we took this train at 6:57 out of Amagansett that when we reach Jamaica, Dick Quintas and his friend Henry Kaynor will go out and buy the clothes as they see fit.  I will take little Pete Burger and go my way.  When we reach Jamaica at nine o’clock, we bought first a package of American cigarettes, Camels.  Then I went down to the station and checked my bag in one of those lockers where you pay a dime.  Then I went across on the same street where the station is at, toward the station where the elevated runs, and I went to the first haberdasher store and I remember vividly it was only a few minutes after nine.  I was the first customer because the guy was just opening up.  I bought in that store a pair of brown slacks, around $6 they cost.  I noticed that the pants were too long and they were not tailored yet and I asked the storekeeper

                                                                                                              1282

where the nearest tailor was.  So I found a tailor opposite on the side street and he told me he is too busy.  He could not do it.  I went right next door and bought myself a pair of other pants for $1.69 and I put them tight on in the little cubby hole.  The other pants I had bought previously, I went back to the locker, opened my trunk, and put them in.  Then I went from there to the Regal Shoe Store on Jamaica Avenue I think – when you come from Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn all the way out and drive past the cemetery, what is the name of the cemetery, I don’t know.  I think it is Jamaica Avenue.  It goes all the way to Parson Boulevard because we walked down Jamaica Avenue practically up to Parson Boulevard in that section, right in the heart of Jamaica near the courthouse or police station.

“After we had bought a new pair of shoes and socks at the Regal Shoe Store in Jamaica, I had the shoes shined and gave the old shoes to the nigger boy who shined my shoes.  So did Burger. 

          “Q      (By Johnston) with reference to the Regal Shoe Store, could you tell us exactly where the shoe shine place was? 

          “A      The shoe shine place was right opposite.  When went came out of the shoe store the two boys were right opposite on the side – not on the main avenue but on the side street in the first block.  I had the shoes shined mostly while looking for a chance to get rid of the old ones.  I figured I might as well get rid of the shoes.

                                                                                                              1283

          “Q      Was a regular shoe shine place or did the kids just have boxes?

          “A      Two little kids with a box, a white boy and a nigger boy, and I gave them the package.  Then we went to the haberdasher store.  I bought a shirt, underwear, and a tie, and three handkerchiefs.  From there I went right close by to the Howard Clothes Store, went in, and selected a brown gabardine suit.  My friend Burger selected a gray flannel suit, and we had those clothes – what you call it – altered.  While waiting for them, we changed our underwear and shirts and put the new ones we had bought on.  There I also discarded – there is another incident – before I went into this Howards Clothes Stores, I went into the washroom of Bickford’s Lunchroom and washed up downstairs and discarded that red sweater.  It had got too hot.  I left it in the washroom.  I washed, took it off, and put it right behind the doorknob and walked out clean.  We still didn’t have anything to eat.

          “Q      Where did you eat?

          “A      Where did we eat?  Oh, yes, I had made the first arrangements with the boys at three o’clock that day.  It was Saturday.  We arranged the first date on 8th Avenue, the arranged date was in the Horn and Harding Restaurant (?).  7th Avenue, corner 34th Street on the upper level.  We took the train out of Jamaica, I think around one o’clock.

          “Q      Was that the 8th Avenue or the Long Island?   

1284

          “A.     No, the Long Island directly into Pennsylvania Station.  I know that Pete had a package.  I checked into the hotel with a Gladstone bag and a package.  Where did I get it?  We both had our new suits on.

          “Q      You had the extra pair of pants?

          “A      That one both of those pair of pants I put in the suit case.

          “The following was dictated to Lucretia McDowell Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special Agents N.D Wills and Frank Johnstone on June 22, 1942.

          “We had our old clothes in a box.  I went from the Pennsylvania Station over to a hotel on Clinton and checked into the hotel.  I had with me the Gladstone bag and the box of old clothes.  I registered under the name of George John Davis, born February 7, 1903.  I didn’t say where.  I put down that I lived at 1002 Gravios Avenue, St.  Louis, Missouri.  I also voiced my desire to get my young friend Pete Burger also to register into the hotel but that his bags were still at the station.  He told me it was all right to go right ahead and move in with him too.  He also signed the register.  What he put down exactly I don’t know.  We rode up.  He took room 1421 and I took room 1414.  We got into the room, washed up, and I told the kid, ‘Now we go over.’  I believe it was close to 3:00 o’clock.  We ate over at the cafeteria.  No – we checked in at 2:00.  We walked down the avenue to go in the Horne and Hardart Cafeteria.  When we got there it was only 2:30.  I went upstairs to see whether the boys were there.  I saw no one.  I said to my friend,

1285

 ‘Would you mind coming along.  We go in this Macy and Company store and that is where we buy our clothes.’  We went back and bought something to eat at the Horn and Hardart restaurant.  We got two kinds of salad.  The first thing I wish to eat when I get to America is two courses of salad.  That is my weakness, especially in the summertime.  A bottle of milk and a good piece of coconut pie.  As we were enjoying our meals, just about 3:00, who comes walking in but two nice looking gentlemen, dressed like typical Dutchmen.  They had on two loud striped jackets, a sport shirt with open collar, and slacks, also new shoes.  I paid them compliments for looking so neat.  I told the boys to go downstairs and get something to eat and then I will give you instructions.  When they come up, we all four sat together.  I said, ‘Aren’t you glad you are back in the United States.’  Everyone said he was.  There again they expressed their desire to follow me, whatever I told them to do.  I told them to look for a hotel and I mentioned the Hotel Chesterfield and told them they should go out and buy additional clothes and suitcases.  I suggested good Gladstones.  I also made the date of the next meeting and the place ant that Swiss Chalet restaurant on 52nd Street between 5th and 6th Avenues.  The time was Sunday, 1:00 o’clock.  I did not disclose to them in which hotel we had checked.  After an hour or three quarters of an hour – not that long – I said, ‘You boys go your way, look for a hotel, and we see you tomorrow.’  I also told them that the original place of meeting which we had made on the boat – the submarine – I again repeated in the

1286

station, still stands and that place of meeting was the Grant Tomb at 6:00 o’clock the second day after landing and the third day of landing.  I told them that still stands.  In case any one of us could not be at the restaurant.  The boys left Pete Burger and myself and we went into Macy and Company’s where we bought shirts, underwear, handkerchiefs, ties, and I bought a suit – a suit and two pair of pants.  Then we went to the luggage department and bought three suitcases.  Everything we had bought in the different departments we put in those suitcases.  My belongings into my suitcase and his in his.  He bought one suitcase.  I bought a big one and a small one.  I also bought a wristwatch – Lord Elgin.  With that we went back to the hotel.  We had dinner downstairs in the hotel restaurant where we drank a bottle of wine and had some rare steaks.  We went back to our room thereafter and then we walked a bit.  I showed them Broadway.  Where I went exactly – to trace my steps after that night – I could not tell but I know we were both anxious to get back to the hotel and leave.  All other things which follows then I have already briefly stated to the best of my recollection.

          “Q      Let’s go back to Jamaica.  What did you dispose of in the way of clothing at Jamaica besides your shoes?

          “A      Shoes, ripped pants, sweater, and hat.

          “Q      Tell us where each was disposed of.

          “A      My shoes to the little Negro boy shining my shoes.  My pants I left in a store where I bought a cheap pair of pants.  My hat I threw on top of the battery of lickers in the Jamaica station, and my sweater I disposed

1287

of in Bickford’s restaurant downstairs in the washroom.  All other things I still have – shirt and tie.  Whether I even had a tie on I don’t know.  I had on a sport shirt.

          “Q      What did Pete dispose of in Jamaica?

          “A      I know definitely the shoes, and I believe that all he disposed of because he went in the hotel with the dark square- checkered suit.  No, I don’t know.  That suit he took off and put in the suitcase.  I had a gray suit.  I don’t know whether he disposed of anything.  His hat he didn’t have.  Whether he disposed of anything else I could not swear to it.

          “Q      Did Henry and Richart tell you what they got in Jamaica?

          “A      No.  Where they bought their goods and how they bought and what they did with their belongings I do not know.  I did not ask.  What for?  I had no reasons and if I had reasons that would be an awful thing.  Why should I ask such questions?  They should have never at any time known my real intentions.

          “Q      Were you ever in their lodgings after you got to New York?

          “A      I only know on Sunday night that they checked either in the McNamara (?) or the Almanac (?).  A hotel I know is on 32nd Street and Broadway, New York City.  I did not go into their lodgings because I did not want them to go into mine.  The main thing – the first thing I had to create – that is confidence.  I had it.  It was expressed to me on Sunday night when I met them, especially by Henry Kaynor.  ‘George you are leader now.  We had doubts in France – but you have proven you are real

1288

leader.  Whatever you do we follow.’  All the angles in the business of knowing the exact whereabouts if those two boys and the business of keeping them happy and contented so that they should at no time ever be suspicious of what my intentions were left up to this boy Burger.  I had a much bigger job now.  How can I possibly connect the right place here in New York.  I had Washington in my mind.  In Germany, in Berlin, whenever I thought about this, my friend, I said I go to one place and that is Washington and I had in my mind to see no one else but Mr. Edger Hoover.  That desire I also expressed on Sunday night when I called the FBI at 7:50.  After I was requested to go to the New York office I said nothing doing.

1289

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Ellen E.  Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traylor, N.D.  Willis and Frank Johnstone on June 22, 1942:

          “Q      I think it might be well to go into more detail on how they acquainted you with Seibold case.

          “A.     In February when I was officially assigned or became officially connected with the German High Command, I was asked to prepare all the groundwork for this undertaking.  I in turn asked them to supply me with all possible records of success or failure of similar undertakings so I could study the ways and methods of this kind of undertaking.  I argued that I was not a professional saboteur so would need to know what methods to use.  I was furnished two files, all of them covering the Seibold matter.  I concluded after having established what it was all about that a man came over here to this country after having been hired by German High Command to establish a radio communications station which he in turn turned over to the FBI and was hired by them to work there, making the Germans believe that he was still loyal to the undertaking, and the finally he turned yellow.  All those reports were in there.  How they exactly read I do not recollect.  I gathered from the reports that this man had done what I was planning to do.  I found myself in a very ticklish situation.  I asked myself why they entrusted those reports to me.  On top of every report there was marked

1290

with a red stamp the word ‘Geheim,’ meaning in English ‘Secret.’  I thought it advisable not to mention the case of Seibold, but after a couple of days or a day or two, Lieutenant Kappe came to Der Kaukakus where the files were all located.  They were locked away in a desk, the key of which I always hung behind a mirror.  He asked me if I had read the case of Seibold and I told him I had.  He asked me what I thought of it.  I said the guy must have been a dirty so-and-so.  I asked if he was still alive, and he said he supposed so but they had men trailing and gunning for him until they got him.  He said that no matter where he went they would get him.  I naturally took the first opportunity to change the subject.  The records were of sabotage done by foreign agents or by alien workers in Germany and in the upper countries for the months of October, November and December, and the other file consisted of records of sabotage acts in January, February and March.  The second file came into my hands some time between the first and third of March.  Each set of sabotage was explained thoroughly as to how it was done, what they attacked, whether the men were caught, and what happened to the subjects.  The sabotage acts were files by separate countries such as Occupied France, Occupied Belgium, Holland, Denmark, Poland, Lithuania, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, and all the way through.  I took out of those records certain examples which might be used by us or on which we might build up our education and so on in our general trend of affairs when we were

1291

[3b]

together.

          “Q      In those records were there any cases of acts of sabotage committed in the United States.

          “A      Two or three other files came into my hands.  These were reports from radio stations and other agencies of communication of the German Government such as even my own place of employment, the Foreign Office or Department R.  Those contained messages and newspaper clippings in regard to sabotage cases or fires or explosion in factories.  They were marked on top with the remark, ‘To the attention of Department C-2.’  There was generally a note attached to this from the officer of the respective department from which the copy originated, and it was signed by one of the officials.  These would be reports that somewhere in Maryland, for instance, there was an explosion, and this was red pencil marked.  Out in Iowa there was a fire at an ammunition plant; another one in Chicago or somewhere else.

          “Q      Was this a book you saw in Intelligence-2?

          “A      No, they were all files.  It was all in a file.

          “Q      Was there anything in these files indicating that these were acts of sabotage committed by German agents?

          “A.  No there was never anything definitely stated that it was done by any one of the agents, but I read a number of articles or rather copies of mimeographed reports of agents in the United States, others in Mexico, and some from Guatemala, in regard to observations they made of all work in regard to sabotage.  There was no

1292

definite proof that any of these agents directly committed the sabotage.

          “Q      Were any of the agents mentioned by name in the files?

          “A      Every agent has only a V. name.  V. is the same as vertrauenman which means a man who is given confidence or a confidence man.  I am a V. man.  Any time I was in possession of any copies of work or files, I had to countersign for them.  I also had to sign ‘V. Strich’ whenever I received any money.  That is the way every man had his name in that file.  Nobody is supposed to know in that Department the real name of the V. man with the exception perhaps of the Personnel Registrar.

          “Q      In this record of explosions, fires and things of that nature happening in the United States, which were more or less nothing but newspaper clippings and press releases and the like, were they on file in on file or in separate files?

          “A      They were all filed in one place but according to the date.

          “Q      Did you run across anything at all outside of this particular file to indicate that they were committing acts of sabotage in the United States?

          “A      I did at no time come across any files which definitely proved by facts or figures or written evidence which would give me the definite proof that there were such man, but I said to myself that there must have been some over there.  That was my own opinion, understand?

1293

          “Q      You did not think you were the first sabotage man?

          “A.     Yes.  I know as a matter of fact we were the first ones to receive that instruction to go there and commit acts of military sabotage.  I know that as a fact because we were already designated as the first ones under the names of Franz Daniel Posterious, the very first German who lead a group of Mennonites into this country.  Lieutenant Kappe gave us the story at the farewell party.  I asked him why he designated our group by that name and then he related the history of the immigration of the Germans into the United States, and he planned that since we were to be the first in our undertaking that we should have the designation of this name.

          “Q      You said a while back that you were given a file or you asked for a file showing the success or failure of similar undertakings.

          “A      That is right.

          “Q      Were those dealings entirely with undertakings in the United States or all over?

          “A      All over.  In Belgium, in Holland, part of occupied Denmark, in Poland, in Norway, in Jugoslavia.  As a matter of fact at the very beginning I read one back as far as 1940 which dealt with the capture of Fort Emanuel, I think it was, in Belgium.  It was reportedly captured by the parachute troops but in reality had already been captured by men doing this type of work.  It was captured because all resistance had been broken.

1294

The occupation and capture was completed by the man who came afterwards.

          “Q      Would you say in these files that you came across any cases which had been successful in the United States?

          “A      No.  You mean cases carried out by a company of V. men?  There was no such reports.  I was all by myself in that office for three or four weeks studying that file.  The only ones who came to see me were Kappe and young Bart.

          “Q      Do you think that if there had been any cases of successfully carrying out missions of any kind in the United States, you would have seen that in this file?

          “A.     I asked myself as I sat there reading those files why they kept them.  I wondered if they were to be kept for the purpose of having a control or check on what to be kept for the purpose of having a control or check on what the Agents were going.  If that were true, then the definite work or accomplishment of each agent should be in the file.  I looked but could find nothing.  The file consisted merely of press and radio reports and information which went through us.  There were a lot of photostatic maps of roads and the water reservoirs are, the entire water supply system.  There was three or four duplicates of each photograph.  They had maps tracing the water supply system back to the first lake or place where the water came from.  There was an additional group of pictures showing the Soarsdale

1295

railed station where there was a cross marked on the siding a few feet to the right, and the Bronx River Road near the Soarsdale station where a cross was also marked and below it was written in white ink that there was supposed to be a main water pipe located beneath a man hole there.

          “Q      Then the reports that you saw on the Seibold case were press reports and have releases, or were they private reports made by German Government officials?

          “A      As I recollected it, the Seibold matter consisted of reports from the V. men and agents.  They were personal reports in regard to Seibold after he had sprung the thing.

          “Q      Were there any names of the V. man in those reports?

          “A      No, never in your life.  Gentlemen, at that time the file was a hot potato I had in my hand.  I merely looked through it to see if I could find something which I could use.  I wanted to learn something from him as he had been successful in his plan.  This was in February going on March.  I had been in that office from the first of February until the 15th of March.

          “Q      Did you have any other examples of failures shown to you?

          “A      I cannot recall anything.  There might have been other things in regard to failure, but they had been in other countries.  I was not interested only in the United States.  I did not worry about failures or successes in other countries.

          “Q      George, I want to take up next the information

1296

about this sabotage school you attended, and I want it in some kind of an outline form, starting first with the location of the school and a description of facilitation.

          “A      I can do that.  I have it in my mind.  It was called Ausbildungsiager Quentz.  Ausbildungsiager means nothing else but a training camp located at Quantz – nothing else.  The place was located on the Quentz lake about two miles away from Mitteideutache Stahiverin (Middle German Steel Works) at Brandenburg.  Also nearby, just around the bend of the lake was located the Arado Airplane factory.  The place was surrounded on one side by the lake and on the other by training grounds of the engineers who were stationed at Brandenburg.  We could see the soldiers training there, Quentz quarters, as it was called, was formerly a private estate belonging to some Jewish family.  The main quarters were rebuilt into separate rooms and larger quarters to house four men.  There were shower baths and so on put in.  You could see that the whole place was rebuilt a year or two before.  On one side near the lake they had a big open air playground.  Outside of that they had a pistol range for pistol shooting.  The gardens were rented to a German family which lived nearby in a house.  They had chickens and ducks and a few children.  To the right of the main building there was a stone wall which separated it from the laboratory which was left of the garage.  The other building was the gymnasium and on the second floor of the gymnasium there were large 

 1297

lecture rooms.  Behind the gymnasium on the other side of the fence began the proving ground where we had an explosive pit which was reinforced so we could use high explosives.  Outside of that were a number of other places where incendiaries could be used.  Next to that was a long rifle range.  There was a little lake on the estate which was in addition to Quentz lake.

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Pauline Foss, FBI, in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traylor, N.D. Willis, and Frank Johnstone, June 22, 1942:

          “Q      George, in connection with this school, I would like to get the names of the instructors that were there, etc.

          “A      Would you like me first to describe the laboratory?  The main building consisted of a front office, a kitchen, two dining rooms, a bigger room, and a third room which is the reading room, and next to it on the main floor were a number, I think, six rooms of which the last ones two of them could house four men.  The others were all single.  I was in a single room.  Kappe, Kelly, and myself had single rooms.  Upstairs were also a number of small rooms where the other officers and the instructors lived.  I had never been upstairs.  The laboratory next to the garage had downstairs shower room and toilet and upstairs it was divided into two sections.  On the left side a small lecture room with benches for about twenty men.  The laboratory which was right opposite was a fully equipped laboratory with all the 

1298

chemicals and equipment, scales from the ordinary kitchen scales to the finest scale.  The fact that I have never been in the laboratory before, to me it was a deep impression.  Everything was there.  Even electrical batteries in one closet.  One man outside of the instructors was one laboratory technician.  He was right there.  For every instruction we had he had everything already finished.  Now let’s go to the instructors.  The whole Quantz school, the property.  Signs were posted all around as well as the main entrance ‘Keep out under the severe punishment of the law.’  The manager of the school was a civilian.  I got close to him and he told me that he is a soldier, in the rank of First Sergeant.  They had tree big dogs there and at night they let them lose.  Three German dogs.  This fellow, this manger patrolled the whole thing every night with a sawed-off machine gun.  The instructors were two, one Dr. Koenig and one Dr. Schuls.  Dr. Koenig was a theorist.  He was an instructor in the theory of all about what we had to learn.  He was to tell us the foundation of it.  To what relation it would be with the others.  Why it ignited and why it burned.  Dr. Schuls in the afternoon told is how to put it together.  Hen we went to the laboratory and had to do it ourselves.  Always one group apart.  Group #1 and Group #2.  To each group, two men of the other four officers, the German officers, which were in the school at the same time, took part.  They were all dressed as doctors.  Two were very high Naval

1299

officers and two were non-commissioned officers.  The Naval officers came from Norwich (?) and others from Russia and the Army officer came from Athens, Greece.  Don’t know the manager’s name.  (When asked by Agent Johnstone as to the name of the manager).

          “Q      The hours of the schooling, what were they?

          “A      We got up at 7 o’clock in the morning, had first calisthenics until 7:30, had to make up our bunks and that was until 8, and 8 o’clock breakfast.  At 9 until 12 we had school, then we had lunch until 1 o’clock.  The reading period until 2 o’clock and then from two until 4 we had school.  Then at 4 o’clock every afternoon we had sport until 5:30 and sports consisted of soccer, hand grenades, boxing instruction, discs, wrestling.  Everything in the gymnasium.

          “Q      That was supervised?

          “A      All those were supervised by Dr.  Schulz.  He also was the instructor when we had pistol shooting.  That was once in a while.  I shot altogether, each man shot about four different times and each time around 7 bullets.  That made 28 bullets.

          “Q      After 5:30 what happened?

          “A      We had dinner at 6 o’clock and then we had our own rest period and that rest period the leaders had to get together with their gang and speak over what they had learned during the day and that is the time I used to be alone.  I was never around from Monday to Friday.  Henry Kaynor and Dick Quintas and myself played Pinocchio.

          “Q      There was no instruction after 5:30?

1300

          “A      No more.

          “Q      How many days a week?

          “A      School instruction was Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.  Then we left and went back to Berlin.  Then Kappe came out and Reinhold Bart’s job was to get all the details and the evidence in regards to first, aluminum production or light metal production of the United States.  Second, the railroad equipment, or the railroads of the United States.  Third, all of the evidence with respect to the construction of the sluices.  Then on Friday, we … We Kappe came he went in conference with Kelly (Kerling) and most always in a private room, and oh yes, with myself too.  And when permitted we sat out in the garden and there he instructed us what to do and asked questions in regard to the man and ability of each and told us what he in the meanwhile has done in regards to the development of this whole undertaking which he worked from his headquarters – from the German High Command, I mean.  You understand.  Saturdays, in the morning we usually had a general review of the work during the week over at the laboratory and then we had our free time.  Saturday and Sunday we were off.  Once we went into Berlin and the other times we rook bicycle rides.  I mean I took bicycle rides.  Nearby that school Quents, there are two big airports right in the woods.  I went over there.  I wanted to find out.  Airplanes were flying above us continuously.  But I was stopped and told I could not go there.  I was told to turn around.

1301

The school ran from the 15th to the 30th.  We went from Monday to Thursday.  It was finished.  Because the following Friday morning I was home.  I left Berlin that Saturday night.

          “Q      Did you take notes?

          “A      We were supposed to take everything in memory.  We took notes and then before we left school we had one more examination from an old Colonel Lieutenant who, according to the statement of Mr. no I mean Dr.  Schulz is the greatest brain of all this sabotage stuff.  He made general review on Thursday morning before we left and told us in his own words ‘Never in the history since the school had been started had I had a bunch that were so eager.’  Also in Thursday morning, we were also told what we would take along.  When we come back from our vacation everything would be shown to us. 

          “Q      Did you get any impression while you were there as to how long the school had been operating and how many graduates?

          “A      When I got in the school I looked around a little bit.  I seen they had a lot of uniforms.  Which we also had to wear.  Uniforms from Polish or Czech.  Army, dyed blue, but I seen there in the reading room while looking for something to read I seen, no I found the reading materials printed in a language which I judge to be Indian or Arabian so I took it for granted.  In regards to that I said tone of the women on the day that we left I said that the women did a good job and gave us good food and I collected ten bucks

apiece

1302

from each of the tem men.  The other two original members, Bookky and Kuber, had left.  I am quite fortunate that the German High Command would never let a man go that far as to see what was going on and finally let this man go out again.  It is just sorry for this poor fellow, that they came there.  She thanked us for the money.  I have told her ‘were all the other foreign speaking fellows also so kind to you?’  She said, ‘No, they all gave us something but not like you fellows.’  I asked the woman what kind of language they speak.  She said ‘I am sorry but they speak very little German.  Maybe I am wrong.

          “Q      In the instructions at the school, George, what explosives were you taught to use?

          “A      Dynamite.  I don’t know whether you call it dynamite or not.  The exact formula I don’t remember, but it works.

          “Q      Were you taught to use more than one type of explosive?

          “A      Yes.  I don’t know whether this … whether there is a different type of dynamite but we were taught three different formulas with which we could make dynamite.  Three different types and the same way this was also for the incendiaries.  And also they showed us a number of ways to make that potassium chloride and sugar, or what you call it.  That mixture I think it is three parts of potassium chloride and 1 part of sugar.  I can get them all.  Just let me work.  Aluminum powder now, how much other stuff I cannot tell you no more.  I

1303

have it all marked down even the devices, how the watch had connected and all the other ways.  I had it all sketched in the little book and I took it home with me and kept it underneath the bed.  Took it home with me and to Berlin and had it in Paris and in Paris that Kappe he said that ‘You all have instructions not to take that when you left school.  Now I give you the last warning to each and everyone, if anything is found which looks like evidence that is all you know.’  I got scared.  The first chance I had I went and destroyed it.  Ripped it to pieces, put fire to it in the bowl, pulled the string, and out it went.

          “Q      Will you describe for us what each type of dynamite, explosive looked like?

          “A      It was a mixture.

          “Q      We have in this country dynamite which comes in sticks, blocks, etc.

          “A      I was the leader George John Dasch, sat right in front and this non-commissioned officer from the Army and I said ‘By Christ I need help.’  Dr. Koenig and Dr. Schulz.  I was sweating.  I said to myself, ‘I have difficulty in learning them because they have chemicals and I know nothing about chemicals.’  Even that fellow Kelly used to say ‘Do you know your formulas?’  If I like something I learned it, if I don’t like it I don’t learn it.  I have no desire to use that.  So I didn’t learn it good.  If I had known you boys were going to ask me all these questions about

1304

it I would have learned it all good, so I could tell it to you.

          “Q      You must have used that at the school?

          “A      We had three different kinds of incendiaries.  Those we used aluminum powder looked like aluminum.  It looked white.  For instance we used that, what you call it again, potassium chloride of soda or saltpeter.  And then one other you couldn’t use it in water.  I don’t know.  I can get it alright somewhere back in New York somewhere near the beach.  I will get that.

          “Q      Why couldn’t you use it in water?

          “A      It will not take.  We made for instance one incendiary where we mixed sawdust with potassium after it is ground.  Only that is in dynamite.  It burns and you wet that sawdust and it dries again and after that you can hardly see anything in that sawdust. 

          “Q      George, here is a picture of some sort of device.  Picture #1.  Did you ever see anything like that?

          “A      I have never seen some like this at all.  They didn’t show me anything like this in school.

          “Q      Here is one, #2.  Did you ever se any gadgets like this at school?

          “A      No sir, at no time, what I seen at school I got outside in that box.  Everything I saw in school is in the box with the exception of the match box, the time fusses and a little glass with a pen in the water so they quiver and force up the little cork you put in that little glass tube and you put a little screw on

1305

one and then when forced up you make contact.

          “Q      #3.  Ever see any of these things?

          “A      No, sir, never in my life.

          “Q      #4.  Ever seen anything like that?

          “A      What is it suppose to be?  (Mr. Traynor explained name to him.) This appears to be like it is only a reproduction of something similar.  We have got all little jiggers.

          “Q      #5.

          “A      No nothing.  We have something like this, but it is flat and not round.

          “Q      #6.  Pen and pencil.

          “A      That is what we have.  Isn’t there some liquid and choloride?  We have that right outside in the box on the bench.

          “Q      How do you operate that?  What were you suppose to use that for?

          “A      It was shown to us the last day.  We had to twist something on top and I think a glass broke and that liquid… It is an acid that burns when it comes in contact with chloride, I think that is it.  I know how to make it.  Chloride is made by using three parts… (He didn’t complete this.)

          “Q      What was it to be used for?

          “A      We were suppose to put it in packages to ignite.  We even have … (Sentence not completed.) This you could put for incendiaries and also I think you could screw down below a little ______ also on here and it was on the same principle.  I can show you that.

1306

When that came down here somehow then it exploded and exploded the other one.  To burn something and exploded something.  That is the time device because it takes time for the liquid to go through that.  It eats through and … or something.  It was said it would take about an hour.  The temperature of the air had a lot to do with it.

          “Q      #7, indicated to be a German time delay railway mine.  Have you seen it before?

          “A      No, sir, never in my life.  Everything what I seen, everything which was explained to us in everything out in that box and in addition is the dynamite, yellow blocks.  Bricke I mean.  Yes, that’s it.

          “Mr. Traynor: exhibits #1 through 7 shown to George Dasch are attached to Mr. Kramer’s memorandum to Mr. Ladd dated June 19,1942, obtained from Mr. Bell.

          “Mr. Dasch: Now I am about in the same position again as I was in school, but before I went to school I never thought it was so much to learn or to know.  You understand, and the same way now when I came here the other day.  I never thought I would have to disclose very much or discuss that much.  I would have learned more, if I’d known.

1307

          “The following was dictated to Lucretia McDowell, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traylor, N.D.  Wills, and Frank Johnstone, on June 22, 1942.

          “Q      George, you told us the first day that you wanted to go back to Germany so you went to the German Consulate in New York and by scheming around you finally got them to send you back to Germany?

          “A      That is right.

          “Q      Did you pay your own way?

          “A      No, sir.  My way was paid from New York, including a bus ticket and the NYC Line ticket, anf all the way through outside of that I was given money in Tokyo – just in Tokyo, but when I left Tokyo I had to sign in Tokyo at the German Embassy that I was indebted to the German Government to the amount, I think it was 1661 or 1461.  When I was in Germany working I received a letter from a branch or department of the foreign office to which a foreign number was attached where it said numerous questions, which I cannot all recollect – when did I get back, how, where I am employed, how much my debt was, whether I have paid something back or whether my wages were attached

to get something.  That first letter they had sent to my mother because that address I had given in Germany – Spayor on the Rhine.  That was always my address.  When my mother sent me that letter the formula, she said what is it, my child.  I ripped it to slices, threw it away.  I said to myself, will

1308

you go ahead and try to get some money out of me.  I can delay them five months.  I merely threw it away.  The same way I ripped a number of letters from Saarbrucker from the branch office of the department which takes care of all the returning Germans.  Why I did not receive them in Berlin – someone was foolish enough not to report to them that I had returned.  I said to myself you are a damn fool, if someone else makes mistake.  I received other letters; I ripped them up.  I know I did the right thing.  When I got back in Berlin I reported that I am back.  So that bureaucratic machine did not work – it is not my mistake.

          “Q      Did you ever pay money back?

          “A      Hold it a minute.  I think it was sometime in January, I received again the same formula but this time a letter in a different tone and content.  It said about ‘Mr. Dasch, we have forwarded to you a letter with this formula many months ago.  Still today we are not in possession of you r reply.  If you do not within that time fill out this blank and send to us immediately at Berlin (and I been in Berlin all the time) we shall take the necessary steps.’ Something like that.  The answer I gave in February.  I had been sitting all by myself and I went to the typewriter and filled it out and sent it back.  I answered all the questions – when I came, that I did not pay anything – hoping that in April we would be done, but that time school was delayed until

1309

March, but I have never heard anything any more.

          “Q      Did you know when you left New York that you would have to pay this money back?

          “A      Yes.

          “Q      Did the German Government advance money for your wife to return?

          “A      Yes.   I think so.  I had to pay something but I don’t know what.  Heimachaffung that is what they call it.  The German Government also paid the full passage of Maria.  I was not in the United States at the time when my wife continued to negotiate with the German Consulate in New York in regard to her voyage.  She left April 26, at that time I was in Germany.

          “Q      Did they charge you interest?

          “A      No, sir, but I know as a matter of fact by other fellows that we were all supposed to pay that money back but if we had done a deed like military active service, then it would not have to be paid but this is only a statement by hearsay, nothing official.

          “Q      Did you have any length of time in which you were to pay back?

          “A      I suppose that it would have been all right to pay it so much monthly out of your salary because on that questionnaire that one question pointed to that way of reasoning  -whether my salary was attached in case you have to pay that way.  We were told personally, that I remember, still in Tokyo, we were given money and the

1310

money was given to us as we asked for it, but we were told by that official in the German Embassy in Tokyo, ‘Now don’t go sky high boys, because every cent you get you have to pay back.’  And I know also that a number of fellow travelers had paid their own way all the way home.  I traveled third class; all in second class paid their way, luggage, transportation, everything else.

          “Q      We want to get in detail the sabotage objectives of each group.  Lets start with your group, the first thing you were to get at, etc.

          “A      It was principally the objective – it was outlined as follows:

“1.  To try and sabotage the light metal industry in the southwest, eastern section of the United States, including the Tennessee Valley and East St. Louis.

“2.  Next, to attach by sabotage and destroy and interrupt the main line of the Chesapeake and Ohio Railroad Company.

“3.  To destroy and interrupt the destruction of the inland waterway – a high river from Pittsburgh down to Cincinnati.  I cannot tell you very much about it.  I can only tell you how I can do it.  It is somewhere in OhioLouisville and Cincinnati.  Isn’t there a canal which connects Ohio and the Mississippi?  I tell you this attack of the canal system is the only branch of the

1311

          He happened to like and work there for a German Newspaper and he seemed to know that.  What kind of industry is there I don’t know.  I was instructed to pay particular attention to the sluices – they had to be attacked – which are between Cincinnati and Louisville.  I was shown a map and everything else where the sluices were.  (locks)

          “Q      Any else?

          “A      No.

          “Q      In what order were you to attack these?

          “A      Let me see, one, two, three.  Outside of that we were to do all small sabotage as it came our way.  Anything which we thought would do some harm.

          “Q      In what order were you to attack these?

          “A      First, the light metal industry, then the railroad, then the sluices.

          “Q      Which light metal industry were you to get first?

          “A      I think the Alcon, because it is bigger, yearly output of 135,000 tens, I think.  They showed me pictures; we looked at a map.  They had all kinds of maps.

          “Q      Were you told what part of Alcoa you should sabotage? 

          “A      The electrical power lines.  It was proven to us by technical experts a Hagen as well as in Bitterfield, with I. G. Farbenindustric plants, that is the best attack.  I have been through that already. 

1312

          “Q      You were not told then where these inlets were located? 

          “A      We were supposed to make a survey ourselves.  We were just supposed to hit power lines or if any plant there was a power plant strong enough to supply enough power to supply electrolysis – our main job was to take the juice or the electrical power away from the electrolysis for a period between six and eight hours.  That was a big job.  The bottleneck.

          “Q      How long did you expect to cut the electrical supply off?

          “A      It was the explanation and reasoning of a number of technical experts between four to six weeks in case of aluminum and in case of magnesium two to three months because the things would freeze together.  Now you can see that our objective was to stop airplane production and anything where light metal is used.  We wanted to go right to the bottom.  Stop the supply then they could not build.

          “Q      After Alcoa you were going to St.  Louis?

          “A      This was strictly up to me.  I said at that time, if after a close survey it was necessary for all the eight boys to work in one neighborhood, we the leaders could come together and decide.  I made that suggestion stick because I wanted at the time – I must have a reason to hold onto that other bunch, that kiddie bunch – 2.  I did not want them to be far away.

          “Q      Here is a map of the United States showing

1313

the principle railroad lines.

          “A      Here, we started on the Ohio River, on those sluisen between Cincinnati and Louisville, supposed to be a great number there.

          “Q      Where were you going to attack the Chesapeake and Ohio Railroad?

          “A      It was strictly up to us to find the bottleneck.  That means the best spot – the weakest spot we could find.  Maybe a bridge, a canal, or a weak spot like the Pennsylvania horseshoe curve.  Something it would take a long time to repair.  It was left up to us to find.

          “Q      You were then not told to attack any particular objective?

          “A      That was left up to us.

          “Q      Was that the only railroad mentioned?

          “A.     That is all.

          “Q      What about group 2?

          “A      Group 2 was to stick near Niagara Falls, the light metal cryolite up there, furthermore the cryolite plant in Philadelphia.  We had it marked on a back.  We also had a map.  They showed me a history of light metal industry.  They had a whole survey printed in English, printed in United States, the whole thing.  I think it was given out by the Aluminum Company of American or something like that and also they had other reference books out of trade publications.  Everything on production trend of this plant and so on.  One of those engineers down in 

1314

Bitterfield, he had visited a number of those aluminum plants as an official representative of the I. G. Farbonindustrie.  He told us that is the kind of equipment you find there.  Merely to take the life blood from the electrolysis.

          “Q      You were going to attack the electrical power of the New York company also.

          “A      Yes, sir.  The same way.  We had to attack after cryolite and other one up there.  A new one, I think, the new station of the Pennsylvania Railroad in Newark, and also that old bridge to Burger.  I said there is the best way to destroy that.  Then also they were suppose to go into big railroad stations and into Jewish Department stores and pt in detonating bombs, no to destroy but to make lots of noise, and get the people panicky.  Just nuisance.

          “Q      Were those several places considered most important.  Was that why they were selected?

          “A      They told us at the time that the airplane production of the United Stated is very vital in the outcome of this war.  If the airplane production can be crippled or slowed up, then we would be doing a great job.

          “Q      Were there no other objectives for Group 1 and 2?

          “A      Other than those mentioned, only such small sabotage as they saw fit.  Won’t you try and be in my position for a while.  At that time I could not foresee

1315

that I would be in the position that I am now.  I figured at that time I have been given dynamite and to get the boys out of the way is my job for the time.  I could not think any further.  If I had tried to find out more I would have put myself in a dangerous spot.

          “Q      The order you gave us – the objectives of the group 2 – is that the way you were supposed to hit them?

          “A.     This I can tell you.  I made the following statement and I repeat the same thing again.  They did not give us any set plan how we should operate; when we got over there this fellow Kerling would meet us on the 4th of July.  Hold you men together and I will talk to him of what we are going to do and why – because I raised the argument that in Alcoa there are more factories and there a group of four people would not be big enough to do a good job.  We should get all the fellows there and do the job and beat it.  The whole plan behind the argument was that I was definitely sure that I could hold onto this guy while I could use him.  That was all.  I left those boys and figured I would lose them.  The United States is a big country.  I had to be sure of the man.

          “Q      What was Group 2 going to attack specifically at the cryolite plant in Philadelphia?

          “A      In that respect it was argued the following – that thought was already raised and discussed behind

1316

closed doors in Bitterfield by I.G. Farbonindustrie that the United States to their knowledge is not manufacturing synthetic cryolite or other chemicals which are to be used to mix with the bauxite.  They would get all their cryolite they used out of Greenland and one factory in Philadelphia – that would be the only factory and that is a bottleneck and if they could stop and destroy that it would not come to the factories.  That would be a double check.

          “Q      How were they going to do it?

          “A      That could not be established.  They did not know the structure of the plant.  That was up to the group leader.

          “Q      They did not instruct you that any particular spot of the plant was vulnerable?

          “A      They did not know it; they had never seen it.

          “Q      With the Alcoa plant – they knew that if they stopped the electricity it would stop the plant?     

          “A      No, sir.  Kerling was going to have to decide, with the cyrolite, it was merely to stop the transportation, It came from Greenland somewhere out of Philadelphia and was then shipped from the boat to the factory and what process this cryolite went through in the factory, I don’t know a damn thing about.

          “Q      They didn’t instruct the leader?

          “A      I cannot recall.  They merely said it is up to you to go stop shipment.  You cannot burn up or blow up sometimes.

1317

          “The following was dictated by George John Dasch to Donald Oden, FBI, in the presence of Duane L. Traynor, N.D. Wills, and Frank Johnstone, Special Agents, on June 22, 1942:

          “Q      (By Traynor) George, how were you told to sabotage these locks along the river?

          “A      We took a trip from Berlin on Tuesday, the 12th of Mayin the afternoon, up a can or channel.  There was came to two locks, laid one next to the other.  One one lock they had opening doors and another lock with one exit to the water and the other one a door which went up and down and another one, the big one – the newer lock, went up with electrical machinery.  The whole thing pulled up the door.  They had three different kinds and we were told, according to the facts they had gathered by this Rheinhold Bart – he had to get all the detail and the facts, that is the types of lock we will come across.  We were shown in each of those locks a weak point, where the doors and locks are fastened.  Those things we had to attack by putting dynamite on it and letting it go.  The lick would fall down, the water would go out and run downward, and all that water would go all the way down to the next.  It would be too much and it would break through.  We would have to dynamite licks, one up here and one further down, so that the water of two locks would run all the way down the river, and the third would break the weight of the next, etc., until they were ripped out. 

          “Q      You have first of all the type of look that is fastened to the side of the canal and the locks either has two doors and they swing either inward or outwards towards the side of the—?

          “A      No, inward against the side section of the lock.  Understand?  When the lock is closed, the doors swing open towards the side of the canal.

          “Q      Where would you attack that type of a lock?

          “A      On the edge of the canal.  Not on the center but on the edge.  They would hang there just like – how would I say that?  (looking around room for something was as illustration) They would stick in like a window or flap.  This we had to destroy.

          “Q      The connecting edge?

          “A      That is right.

          “(Note: Throughout the above and a great deal of the following, Dasch made numerous drawings in the way of illustrating the different types of locks)

          “Q      Now, then in the second type of lock we have a type of lock which is one solid piece and it is raised up –

“A      No, no.  The second one is different.  The second one was a solid piece and when it was opened it went all the way to the bottom of the water.

“Q      I see, and the water could then come in and go out?

“A      It came back to close it.

“Q      How would you sabotage that type of lock?

“A      On the side also.

1319

 “Q     Where the hinges are?

          “A      No, you would have to get down to the bottom of the canal to do that.  N, when the water is out or when the water is level.  See when the water is level, then it would only be a yard or so underneath.  That was the time to put on the dynamite.  The other one, that was the most difficult.

          “Q      The solid one that would raise up in the air, how would you destroy that type?

          “A      There were two different ways, either by destroying the electrical machines which control that, because that door would be too solid of a structure to destroy by dynamite.  See?  Or the chains or the iron cables or whatever lifts the door up and down.  Understand?  That is the way.

          “Q      What type of explosives were you to use in destroying those locks?

          “A      Dynamite.  Dynamite was used for all explosives.  What we made up ourselves, that was only in case we ran short of dynamite.  Understand?  That is all we didn’t have to worry about that for a long time.  They said, ‘If you can use everything we give you take along, you do a great job.’

          “Q      How many of those clocks would you need to destroy one of those locks?

          “A      That would depend according to instructions back in the school on the thickness of the iron and of the length we have to destroy and they also gave us a measurement.  They told us exactly how much.  But I

1320

forgot it.  I didn’t pay much attention to it.  I couldn’t tell you no more.  They told us the different wood, iron, cables, three different amounts we had to use.  But we reached the conclusion among us, and we didn’t pay very much attention to that.  We would rather use a little more than this to be sure.

          “Q      The other day in discussing party names or workers’ names in these schools, you said that each man was given a name, like your name for instance is Strich which means dash, Duber was Sanne, in other words they ordinarily had some connection with the fictitious name?

          “A      Yes, I think so.  I do not know.  For instance, I do not know how they call little Peter.  Neither could I remember the name of this boy – the two boys from Braunswagon (?), this fellow Dick Quintas, although I read those names over and over.

          “Q      You said, for instance, Quintas was Querin Wahle (?)? 

“A      I think his real name.

“Q      The names chosen were somewhat similar – you use – Kerling is Kelly, Dasch is Davis, etc.?

“A      Now wait a minute, hold it!  Neubauer is cook.  He was a cook.

“Q      Nicholas, his name is.

“A      No, Neubauer had three names.  First his family name, Neubauer, which is not supposed to be used in any official records.  Understand?  In

1321

regards to this thing, they call him Koch, which means cook because he was a cook.  And his fictitious name was Nicholas.  That is why I cannot remember each man.

          “Q      Koch man had three names? 

“A.     Yes, that is right.

“Q      For instance, you started your fictitious name with a ‘D’, Kerling is Kelly and he started his name with ‘K’.

“A      That was only done at the suggestion of myself.  I suggested that and it was followed.  I think this idea was found good or reasonably good.  I’ll think of the name of this fellow Kelly over there in their papers.  I can’t remember it now.

“Q      One of the men in Kerling’s group is Thomas.  Therefore, his right mane probably begins with a ‘T’.

“A      I think so.

“Q      In the hope that you might identify a name, I am going to read a few to you from the telephone directory – (starts reading)

“A      Thiel: Thiel is his real name.  Torner Thiel is his real name from ehat you may call it.  Torner Thiel.  And you look over your records in the Nazi Band and you find him.  Undoubtedly you should find him.

          “Q      Has he got a record with the FBI?

          “A      I don’t know. 

1322

Nazis we did this and that.  I have been here and there.’

          “Q      Thiel is the name?  He was on the same boat that you were on going back?

          “A      That is right.  That is where I know him from.  When I met him on the gathering of the retuning Germans.  That might be when I met this fellow Kerling the first time, where he was in Nazi uniform.

          “Traynor: You told us about that.

          “Q      Now what was the name of that boat that you went over to Japan on?

          “A      ‘Tatuka Naru,’ NYC Line.  That boat left at 12 o’clock the 27th of March, 1941, Pier 25, San Francisco.  I have a good memory.  You know why?  Well I have always had a hope to write a book someday.  Maybe I shall write one if I live long enough.  Among other things, I have a very good memory for figures, but names and persons –

          “Traynor: You do pretty well on names.

          “Q      George, you have mentioned heretofore in some little aside more or less, that after you got through this sabotage school, you made a tour.

          “A      I went home.

          “Q      After you made a tour of these factories?

          “A      No, we went home first and than we made an inspection tour of factories, licks, and railroad shop.

          “Q      I would like next to get in quite some detail who went along on this tour, the group members, the instructors, people like that, together with just

1323

exactly what factories you visited and what specific things were pointed out to you in each of those places.

          “A      We started on the 12th day of May at noon.  We went on a boat up the channel and saw the locks.  There was Lieutenant Kappe present, Rheinhold Bart, Dr. Koenig from school, and Dr. Schulz from school.  Outside of that, an official from the canal system or inland waterways, a big shot, when he met the officers, you know, and the other fellows: Jesus, he was sick in his back.  We guys stood on the side.  Christ sakes, what a bunch of nuts!

          “The next day the 3rd of May, we went around 10 o’clock in the morning or 9 o’clock we went to the railroad shop in Berlin and right at the door we were greeted – with us were Lieutenant Kappe, Warrant Officer Rheinhold Bart – and were greeted right there by the Chief Engineer, the boss of the whole place.  In the forenoon we went through the whole plant where the engines were repaired, from one department to another, where the engines were taken all apart from the boiler to the wheels to all the different parts of the engine.  And by the boiler we were shown how much pressure is on that boiler.  Understand?  This little Warrant Officer marked all that down.  This Rheinhold Bart, that man know that the Chief engineer thought we were counterespionage men.  We had to catch the Russian saboteurs, we were being instructed for that.

          “After we had luncheon, we went to the railroad yard where we saw the freight care, the construction

1324

of freight cars, and shown the weak points and shown where any sabotage could be done in regards to the pressure lines for brakes, where the brakes locked all at once or whatever it is.  And the oil boxes on the side and where the Russians would undoubtedly and do put sand in it and Emory, understand?  As a matter of fact, while they were explaining to me I happened to remember the reports I had read only a couple of weeks before.  And there I came across many of this type of sabotage which was committed not only in France and in Holland and in Poland, that type of sabotage was done over and over again in hundreds of cases by the people of those countries.

          “That night when we got out of the shop, we went to Der. Naukakus.  No one was to know what it was.  No civilian knew what it was.  We went back and there we had a review again and the Warrant Officer Bart told us that it was an easy thing to put that dynamite some place, which looks like coal- to throw it right into the coal tender and that would go into the locomotive fire box and with the pressure which is already on that boiler and with the pressure exerted by that dynamite, the whole thing would go high up in the air.

          “Q      What other methods were you taught with regard to sabotaging trains and railroads other then putting this coal dynamite in the tender?

          “A      Well then, out in Quentz how to dynamite the rails and how to dynamite a bridge.  And we were told that at a big constructed bridge, we shouldn’t even try

                                        1325

it is because it takes too much.  We should go and look for a smaller bridge?

“Q      What kind of bridge?

          “A      They told us, ‘Don’t trouble with the bridges with girders, they are too strong.  Find a bridge supported on each and only; that would be the bridge to dynamite.’

“Q      Just the little bridges.  Where were you to attack a bridge like that?

“A      Whenever we find it (laugher) you mean in what spot?

“Q      Yes, in what spot?

          “A      We would put a package (illustrating to Traynor)—we would first have to measure the length of the bridge.  Those bridges are not very strong, on [illegible] usually.  We had to measure the length and get a thing piece of wood, long enough to measure exactly the length of the span, and on one side of that, on that board, we would then attach already the dynamite and—

          “Q      How far apart?

          “A      As I say, about half a meter, and attach those detonating fuse and put on one of them detonating cape—bring that up to the rail.  When the train comes, the wheel breaks that and the damned thing goes up, the momentum when it explodes, the damned thing goes ahead and goes right down.  They figured everything, them bums.

          “Q      Were you taught any other ways of disrupting the traffic?

1326

          “A      As I said then, it was given to our own observation to look at weak points.  That was often mentioned, especially by Kappe.  You know, the horseshoe back there or at the entrance of a tunnel.  We should always dynamite or put the dynamite on a bend so the damned thing would undoubtedly run off the rail.

          “Q      Were you told anything about the or given any instructions on the signal system?

                                                                                                              1327

          “A      That was also considered.  Understand?  But this Rheinhold Bart who had worked in this country for the Long Island Railroad Company, he worked there in the Maintenance and Supply Department, he was against that.  He said that you can’t do very much.  He said one signal is out, the man in the control tour would see that right away.

          “Q      Were you told any other means than besides putting coal dynamite in the coal tender, blowing up bridges and tunnels, and tracks, and putting emory dust or abrasives in the boxes of cars?  Were you given any other instructions?

          “A      Yes, by taking apart the pressure lines for the brakes, so the brakes don’t go no more—not cutting, taking them apart.

          “Q      Can you think of any other means?  Were you taught to loosen the rails?

          “A      No, nothing.

          “Q      Okay, where did you go from the railroad shops?------so that we should have a practical understanding, the Horseshoe Curve up in Pennsylvania is the only installation that was specifically mentioned by name?-------

          “A      (To last part of question) It was only said ‘Something like it.’  We should look.

          “Q      They didn’t name any other spots.

          “A      No, no.

          “Q      Okay, you can go back to the school for this review and tell about railroad sabotage.  What did you do the next day?

1328

          “A      We didn’t go back to school.  We went back to headquarters.  The next day we left at 6 o’clock in the morning by train from Berlin and we went to Bitterfield.  On that trip was along, Lieutenant Kappe, Warrant Officer Bart, Koenig and Dr.  Schultz.  They all went along.  May I insert right away?  One thought which went through my mind – why are those chemists going along?  I said to myself, ‘Those fellows are to note the practical end of all this whole teaching so that the future pupils receive a better up-to-date practical instructions.’  Understand?  That is the way I reasoned.  Because after all, they were chemists, but they had to line up their chemical instruction according to what they had seen.  Maybe I’m wrong but that is sound reasoning.  We went there and went out the main office of plant No. 1 of the light metal industry or the I. G. Farbin.  There we were ushered into the conference room where we were introduced to the following persons: First,—hold it—outside of those officers and people which I have mentioned, the following two other persons went along on the trip: a representative of the electrical engineer of the AEG, a technical supervisor, furthermore, a representative of the main office from the I. G. Farbin in Berlin.  He did the introductions.  At the conference room of Plant No. 2 we met the general director of the whole four plants, and then the consulting chemical as well as electrical engineers of Plant No. 1 and Plant No. 2 in Bitterfeld.  The names I cannot remember.  There the

1329

question was opened – a lecture was given of how light metal was produced, and what vital importance it has in regard to war production.  That it is exactly!

          “We then went to the inspection of the plant.  We started first at the electrolysis shop or plant and then we went to another one and them we went to the electrical plant and powerhouse.  There we were shown how the power which came over wires into the plant at a strength of 100,000 volts was reduced to 10,000 volts and then further reduced to the necessary voltage which was necessary to feed the electrolysis.  We also seen the control room where we were shown a number of electrical instruments, which names I cannot recollect, but they were round, big, and about eight feet high, where a vacuum is, and were very vulnerable to destruction.  We were told that if only a little bit of air would enter any one of those electrical machines, there would be instant destruction and we were shown how it is done.  A little blow with a hammer—on the very top were the insulators of porcelain, that would very easily be destroyed by just hitting with a hammer against it.  They said “Boy, if you are able to do that!’

          “We went back then to the conference room and had a review of what we had seen.  The engineers pointed out to us and explained to us once more in exact formulas and steps how it should be done.  Then we went over to the clubhouse where all the officials met.  There we were ushered into a dining room where all of us sat down and had the swellest dinner I ever had in Germany!

                                                                                                              1330

Cigars and bottles of Wine! We were treated like kings.

          “In the afternoon we went over to Plant No.  2 in order to see or be sure the same thing over again with the exception that the transformers were a little bit different but had all the same object.  Understand?  That night we went back into Bitterfeld and we all stayed there over night.  Lieutenant Kappe, Dr Schultz, and Dr, Koenig went back to Berlin for the night.  The next morning we boarded the train at Bitterfeld and went to Dassau.

          “Q      (By Traynor)  Before we get to Dassau, have we covered the points he was shown to attack?  (Traynor had been out of the room for a few minutes and missed part of the above)

          “A      (Dasch) Yes, I just tried to put myself right into it.  Nothing else that could be sabotaged at these kind of plants at I. G. Farbin.  If I were an engineer I could tell you.  Try and understand.  I have never been inside an electrical plant in my life.  It was a little too much to have to remember it all.

          “At our arrival in Dassau, we were met by a bus, a special bus, and we brought to the factory, to a new factory, and aluminum factory, in Aaken.  That plant was not quite finished yet, although already full blast in operation.  The roads were not finished.  The office buildings were not finished yet.  This was the newest factory, producing 22,000 tons yearly of aluminum.  We seen in there the same electrolysis, the same kind of generators, transformers, only a different

                                                                                                              1331

make.  There they had from different electric company a little bit different make but always on the same principle, the whole everything on the same principle.  In that factory, as well as in others the day before, I have noticed that up to 90 percent of all those places employed in these electrolysis were all Russians and German soldiers all around – German military prisoners.  The foreigners were so-called free civilians, ‘Russians.  What a sight!

          Luncheon we had again at a clubhouse for the officers of both factories.  In the afternoon we went for the first time inside a magnesium plant.  There we were shown at first the difference of operation and construction of electrolysis between magnesium and aluminum.  We were also shown an empty or unfinished vat and how carefully these vats had to be built.  We were told if we had to proceed, cut off the lifeblood and that is electricity.  And if you are able to do that, those electrolysis which took so long and careful work to build and take such special stones to build would freeze together and would take from two to three months to repair.  We were also told that according to their knowledge in this plant where they are manufactured, I think an amount of magnesium prior to the beginning of the war, we were also given in that plant two pieces of light metal with the same dimensions.  One was a piece of aluminum and the other magnesium.  I approached this consulting engineer and chief of this whole works and

                                                                                                              1332

took him on the side and I said to him, ‘Do you know how much magnesium is in a Messerechmitt?’  And he told me 90 percent of all the Messerechmitt today and the 88’s the big dive bombers, are built with magnesium.  He told that it is an established fact by all the automotive engineers which he came in contact with that the American airplane motors are of a higher quality than the German, but the big difference between the construction quality of the German today has a very big production power in this metal magnesium.  I could not tell exactly how much better it is than aluminum and that just for the fact that Germany could produce such metal in big quantities and put into a plant was why those planes were superior.  Not because they had better pilots but merely for this fact .  The motors are not as good, the gasoline is not as good.  American pilots are just as good as Dutch pilots.  Something is the matter.  I came to it.  That is why I asked him.  I was interested.  I opened up that question.  I was talking with him.  That statement got out of him.  This is a valuable statement.  Christ sakes, when I get back home to America, I am going to tell that person.  Maybe its only foolish – no value in it.  Maybe, I hope it is.  Because if we can undoubtedly produce the best metal.  To strike back at them with everything we have.

          “Q      At this magnesium plant, did they show you

                                                                                                              1333

any other vulnerable points?

          “A      No, all the same thing.  After visiting that magnesium plant, we went back to the clubhouse where we were treated to a dinner and beer once more a final opinion that the greatest bottle neck and the best way to damage the light metal industry would be to take the life blood – electricity.

          “Q      All right, George, Let’s continue the tour.  That is the end of that day? 

          “A      Oh yes.  The end of that day was Friday.  Tuesday-river, Wednesday –railroad shop, Thursday in Bitterfeld, Friday in Aakon.  Then we went home.  We got home at two o’clock in the morning.  We took a very late train to Berlin.  We were finished with Quentz.  We went back to Berlin.  The next day was Saturday and we were given a free day.  I am not quite sure, I cannot travel every step.  Oh yes, we were given Saturday, Sunday, including Monday to straighten all our personal affairs.  Because we had orders already before that on the 15th, Wednesday, to be ready to leave anytime.  We were only waiting for orders from the Navy when the damned boats would leave.  That was the end of our tour.

          “Q      The tours are finished?

          “A      Yes.  Then Kerling and myself went back I think it was on Tuesday to write on those damned handkerchiefs.  And then we had a farewell dinner with our chief and the following day we left.  We got that what happened in Paris, you know, what happened in Lorient I also explained.

                                                                                                              1334

The whole thing explained.

          (At this point Mr. Traynor brought enlargements of what had been written on the handkerchief which were brought out by the Laboratory.  From this point there is not much continuity to the memorandum due to the fact that Dasch and Traynor were inspecting the enlargements and were endeavoring to decipher the writings).

          “Dasch: What the hell is ‘Bingo’?  How wait a minute.  Bingo is the name of this little kid Haupt.  That is the name under which he is known in the German High command.  Just as my name is Strich. 

          “(some difficulty was encountered in reading the writings)

          “Dasch:  Can’t you get it any better?

          “Traynor:  Let’s see if you can read this whole thing?

          “Dasch:  That is the address which should be used as an undercover in case we should need it.  Lopez, Lisboa Walter Frohling, 864 Whippie Avenue or Whipple Street, Chicago.  This is to be used in case we decide at our headquarters to find a farm, a hideout where we put the boxes. 

          “Traynor:  Do you gather that this is where he lived?

          “A      I think this Walter Frohling is either a relation of his friend or a friend or he could have been or had something to do with the Bund.  This is the address

                                                                                                              1335

over which I shall also reach Kerling.  I thought I put that down better.  21-55.  Frank Daniel Posterious, Helmuth Leiner, 21-58 39th street in Astoria.

          “Q      Is that to contact Kerling - That address?

          “A      That is the address over which I could always contact Kerling in case I got lost.  In case he loses me, you know what he has on his handkerchief, he has the false address of my little brother on Pehlam Road.  This here Lopez, Concovio, Lopez, Lisboa.  If I can get that damned handkerchief and go through it myself I can get that correctly.

          “Q      What do you think that is? 

          “A      Father Krepper, c/o Gern Frey, R.F.D.  2, Box 40 in Rahway.  Kappe told us to go to him in case we needed any help in regard to birth certificates and identification papers.  I don’t much else about him.  I wasn’t very much interested.  I figured when I get here, to hell with all that business.  Let’s see, Walter Frohling 3643 Whipple Street or Avenue Chicago, and I think it could be also 8643, either a 3 or 8 Whipple Street or Avenue in Chicago.  And the other one is Helmuth Leiner.  I wish to say that much about Helmuth Leiner.  I was told that he was an American citizen.  I think the boy was even born in America.  I’m not quite sure.  But we should all be very careful of his parents but he would be all right.  He is a very good friend of Kerling.  Was I right about that damned chemical on the handkerchief?

1336

“Traynor:  Yes, Ammonia fumes did it.  Are we entirely clear on how this address is to be used?

1337

“A      Yes, that is a contact.

“Q      Did Kerling tell you who this was at this Astoria or how they would know where he was?

“A      Oh yes, look it was agreed upon that any time I lost track of this Kerling guy, I should always get in contact with Leiner.  He would tell me then where Kerling is to be found.  And the same way in case Kerling has lost me, he would have to go to my little brother at the phony address trying to find me.

“Q      Did Kerling say he would get in touch with Leiner just as soon as he landed?

“A      Last thing he said in Lorient, he said that he would go after the landing, Herman Neubauer and little Bingo would go to Chicago and this Werner Thiel would go to Pittsburgh and thereafter would go to New York.  Understand?  Before meeting me.  Now I reasoned at that time, ‘I betcha the guy is going to see his wife.’  Where, I never know. 

“Q      Do you think if he goes to New York he will contact the guy in Astoria?

“A      It is possible, I do not know.

“Q      Did he say who the guy was in Astoria?

“A      I have told you that a little white ago.  When I opened that question, well he is a son, his father and mother, parents, are not being trusted, but he is a good friend of his and he will be all right.  The son is a friend of his.

“Q      But they are both members of the same Bund?

“A      I suppose so, when they were over here.

                                                                                                    1338

“The following was dictated to Ellen E.  Harrison, Federal Bureau of Investigation, in the presence of Special Agents Duane L. Traynor, H. D. Wills and Frank Johnstone, on June 23 1942.

“(Questioning continued by Mr. Traynor)

“Q      George, I have a picture here and I wonder if you have ever seen this man.  (Showed him the picture)

“A      That fellow is Neubauer, but he looks a little different now.  He is not as heavyset.  He looks leaner and has a scar right below his left temple.  He has a piece of metal in there yet.

“Q      In this picture, he looks to have a mustache.  Does he still have it? 

“A      He has a little mustache at this time. 

“Q      George with regard to this man Helmut Leiner, do you know anything about his connection with Kerling?

“A      The only thing I know is when I asked Kerling who this boy was, he told me that he was a personal friend of his, and as far as I can remember he had been connected to with the Bund proposition during the time Kerling was in New York.  Kerling told me to be very careful as he did not trust the boy’s parents but the boy would be all right. 

“Q      Who suggested Leiner’s name for the contact place of Kerling?

“A      We were told by Kappe that every group leader should establish an address where one or the other of the boys could always be reached so in case

                                                                                                    1339

we lost track of each other we could always go back through these addresses to locate a person.  When I was confronted with this, I did not know what to do.  I thought of all kinds of addresses, but I was more or less on the spot.  I had to give them an address but at the same time I did not want to involve an innocent person in this proposition.  Lieutenant Kappe asked why I didn’t use the address of my brother as he was a German and would be willing to help out.  I knew my little brother better than he did, but figured if this was the only way I could do it, I would mention my brother, but give the wrong address. 

“Q      Did Kappe seem to know this man?

“A      This I do not know.

“Q      Did he give any indication of the time that Kerling furnished this name and address that he knew him?

“A      No, I don’t think so because I heard Kerling tell the history or the boy when he was at Der Kaukakaus.  In other words, I reasoned that Kappe did not know this boy at all otherwise it would not have been necessary to hash through his history.

“Q      Do you know if the organization of Intelligence-2 over there has ever had any contact with this man Leiner?

“A      No, at no time.

“Q      As far you know, they never had any contact?

“A      This boy was just [2 words illegible] to be his cover

                                                                                                    1340

address, understand?

“Q      (By Mr. Johnstone) Did Kerling have the address memorized or did he get it out of a book?

“A      He got it out of a book.

“Q      (By Mr. Traynor) With regard to the radio reception on board the submarine, so far you have not been exactly clear in your own mind as to whether they were sending while below or above water, or both.  At one time you told us that they received a message from a submarine apparently down underneath the water, saying that it could not blow the water out of its tanks?

“A      That is right.

“Q      That would lead one to believe that the submarine had communications under water.

“A      That is it exactly.  I believed that because I figured that sound travels better under water than shore.  I reasoned that by going back into history when Edison tried his first telephonic experiments that time.  He used the principle that a wet piece of cord transmitted sound better than a dry one, so I figured it was possible that they were able to do it underneath and that it would be done by sound waves in the water.

“Q      During the day you traveled under the surface?

“A      Not always, we only traveled under the surface the first and second day out of Lorrient on the Friday and Saturday after our departure.  We went underneath the water all day long.  At night when it was dark, we went up and continued at half speed on the surface.

                                                                                                    1341

“Q      How close were you to the American shore before you started going under the surface during the day?

“A      It was very foggy all the way from about five hundred miles off the cost of New Foundland or Halifax.  We always looked at a map.  The helmsman, with whom I became very chummy on board, would write the exact locations down in a book, and he used to make figures and mark on the map.  I used to ask him where we were and he would point out on the map where we were.  I think when we were four days away from our landing we had a lot of fog and it was decided for security’s sake to go under water, and that was why our landing was delayed.  When we were about two or three days out of the Lorrient, I asked the captain to name the date when we might arrive in America.  He said it was possible that we would land on the night of Thursday, June 11th or Friday, June 12, but since we ran into a lot of fog four or five hundred miles off the coast of America, we were forced to go beneath the surface of the water during the day.  He went above a few times to find out if the fog had lifted, but we went above just long enough to air the boat and I think to let the diesel engines run for a while in order to charge the A.  machine batteries, and then we went right under again.

“Q      During the time you were under the water was there always a radio operator in the radio room?

                                                                                                    1342

“A      No.  During the time we were under water, one of the Navey boys in the radio room was sitting on the listening device and the others were doing something else, that is, other kinds of work, but they were not tending to the radio.  When we came above the water, the non-commissioned officers and the other three men (there were altogether four men working on the radios) all got busy.  I know this because when I tried to go into the radio room after receiving permission from the captain to use the long wave radio to connect with American broadcasting stations, I was told that they were too busy as they so many messages.  Therefore I took it for granted that when we were on the surface, they received their messages via radio on their own secret motor band or wave length in code which was deciphered on their own machines they had there.

“Q      Those are the same machines referred to the other day?

“A      That is right, where he got those letters he marked down on the [illegible] I could not say.  I don’t know if he heard it in sound, or it showed up in print, in flash.  That I could not say, but I know that when he had a sheet written he sat down at the other machine which was just like a small cash register, and he had punched the keys and on top the different letters came out and that again worked the little typewriter machine which recorded the original message in the German Language.

“Q      That operated only while you were on surface?  Never when below water?

                                                                                                    1343

“A      Yes, only on the surface.

“Q      While below water you had only one man in the radio room?

“A      No, there were two radio rooms, one where the listening devices were, and the other one where  all the sending and receiving apparatus was, but under water I noticed there was no one in that room where the sending and receive apparatus was.

“Q      Did they always have someone in the other room where the disc was?

“A      Only when underneath water.  There was a man there continuously with earphones checking the listening device which had a wheel on it that turned around very slowly.

“Q      What was he listening for?

“A      He was listening for noises which could be heard with this device.  He heard something close to the coast on a number of occasions, and then he would report that he heard a noise in such and such direction at such and such degree, and usually one of the others would put on the additional earphones in order to find out that type of noise it was.  I asked how they found out what sort of noise it was and one of them told me that s steamer has a different noise than a fishing boat, and they can tell a destroyer or any other type of boats as there were trained in that type of work.  A turbine engine makes a different noise than a steam engine, and a motor makes another different noise.

“Q      Besides listening for motor noises, did they listen for anything else?

                                                                                                    1344

“A      Not on that device.  Did you ask me whether it was possible to receive on this listening device?  That was impossible because I asked them if they could receive any messages, and they said they could not.  This was the only to locate noises.  They could receive no message whatsoever.  But they must have been able to receive and send messages because one of the boys told me that they received a message from another submarine (I don’t know whether or not it had been attacked) which was underneath the water and could not pump out any more and the made the remark there was another one ‘shot to hell’ I took it for granted they were able to send messages.

“Q      Did you ever see them sending or receiving messages below water? 

“A      No, not below water.  When we were able the water, the submarine was as quiet as a church.  We were told not to move around and to sit still and say as little as possible, no one said a word.  When we were below the water and anyone wanted to go from one end of the boat to the other, they had to pass through the control room, and I noticed that everyone passing would say, ‘One man in the back part,’ and when he came back would say.  ‘One man going to the front.’  This was done because the balance of the ship was determined from there.  The ship had to go straight so they had to counter-balance the weight.

“Q      Were you able to know whether the radio room and the sending and receiving room were locked during

1345

time no one was in them?

“A      No, the doors were always open.

“Q      Were you able to see the radio room most of the time?

“A      No, you could only see it when standing in the front of it or passing it.  One side of the door was always open.

“Q      At the time you were told that a message had been received that another submarine was under water and had apparently been hit, were you above water or underneath the water?

“A      That I cannot tell because I cannot recollect.  I think though we must have been above the water.  This I cannot state with assurance, and I would merely make a wild guess if I made one statement or the other.

“Q      You could not state if they ever received any messages below water?

“A      No.  At least it was not clear in my mind that while there were on the water they could not receive any messages over the radio or any instrument connected with the radio, but I reasoned they were able to receive messages while out of the water and send out messages out of the water with other instruments other than the radio.  They used sound traveling devices.

“Q      Did you see any instruments?

“A      No, I did not have it explained.  They had so many little instruments.  When approached one of the boys he told me not to ask about them as he could not tell me because he was sworn to secrecy.  I found out that the trade name of all the instruments was Telefunken.

1346

I know they had radio sending apparatus in there for short distances.  That was in the right hand corner.  He told me that was a radio set to send and receive, but not very far away.  I do not know whether he meant it could be used to under water or above water, but when he mentioned radio I said to myself it is only above water.

1347

“Q      Now then, let us talk about the submarine itself, First of all, how many men were aboard the submarine?

“A      On that submarine were forty-five men, but one mans was missing, for what reason I do not know.  The bed in the compartment where Pete and I slept was vacant.  In the quarters of the con-commissioned officers where we slept were the following three Navy boys: the helmsman, the first machinist whose job was diesel engines, and the first machinist whose job was to look after the electric engine or A. machine.  I went back in the engine rooms.  As you come from the control room you went first through the quarters of the non-commissioned officers and then you went through the kitchen.  From there you went into the room where the diesel motors were.  Each motor had eight hundred horsepower and built by Krupp.  Behind that was another room where the A. electrical machine was.  You could hardly see the machine as it was below to wide control panels with all kinds of gadgets on them, and the machines below.

“Q      Can you draw picture of the space compartment in the submarine?  A picture of the whole thing? 

“A      Yes, the whole thing.  I can do it very easily.  I will try to remember the length of the boat first.  The length of the boat was from this building across to that one.  (pointed out from the window across the street to the other building)  No, that wouldn’t be it.  Maybe it

1348

would be from the lamp post up to where that car is parked.  That would be about the length of the boat.  I figure it was between 160-180 feet.  The boat was built in the Krupp works at Kiel and was commissioned on the 22nd day of (I don’t remember the month – April, May or June of last year).  I know this because I was allowed to look into a book which showed pictures first of the Krupp Submarine Construction Yard at Kiel; then the boat laying at dry dock half finished; and then the submarine laying in the water with flags on it.  I noticed that the submarine must have been commissioned last year in March or April because I saw particles of ice floating in the water.  It must have been cold as the people in the pictures were dressed in heavy clothes, so it must have been March or April.  The submarine had a tonnage of 700 or 750 tons.

“Q      (by Mr. Johnstone) Did it have a name?

“A      The name was Innsbruck, because in that book was a letter from the mayor of Innsbruck who expressed thanks that his city should be the sponsor of the boat. 

“Q      (by Mr. Johnstone) Did it have a number?

“A      The number was designated U-202

“Q      (by Mr. Traynor) What else was in this boat?

“A      Now let me have a pencil, on top in front of the conning tower it had a gun.

“Q      How big a gun?”

“A      I could not tell you exactly – quite a little gun, but I do not know the caliber.  Also on top at the rear of the conning tower was another gun that was

1349

a small antiaircraft gun which shot tracer bullets because as we left the harbor at Lorrient it was tried out.  They shot a few rounds.  Also on the high seas when we came into the waters of the Gulf Stream where it was quiet, they greased the guns and cleaned them and tried out the small gun once more, shooting about ten rounds.  I was told that the shells which were shot were exploded.  I watched them on the conning tower.  They also had a steering apparatus on the conning tower so that board could be guided from there.  When we left Lorrient, the boy guided the boat right from the conning tower out on top of the boat.  There was also an instrument to guide torpedoes from above the water.  Then you went down in the conning tower and you came into a smaller compartment to the right of which, toward the front of the boat, sat the boy who guided the boat.  That was done by electric machines.  You just pushed two buttons up and down.  He had a compass in front of him.  There was also an indicator of the speed of the boat.  We usually went ten or twelve knots.  At slow speed we went ten knots, and at half speed we went twelve knots.  In the rear end of this little compartment toward the back of the ship was a round cone.  That was the periscope.  I sat in there myself.  It had two foot pedals and with those pedals you could turn it all the way around.  I had requested the captain when we were on the high seas to be allowed to become acquainted with the periscope because we had agreed that when we got near the coast I should look through

1350

it to see where we were and to see if we were at the right place to land.  That never happened because it was too foggy.  That is how I was able to go in there.  There were a lot of other gadgets but I don’t know what there were.  There was a loud speaker system which went to every part of the boat, to the torpedo room, to the control room below and to both engine rooms.  From this little compartment you went down a little iron ladder into the main control room.  In there were a lot of gadgets and indicators, but I also noticed that they had two boys sitting there while we were under the water.  One of them guided the electric push buttons which balances the boat and the other took charge of the direction.  He had a compass, and in front of the other fellow was a round indicator in which there was a small submarine floating in a liquid.  This looked like a carpenter’s level.  He would always try to loop that small submarine on a level basis.  What all the gadgets were in there I don’t know, but I was told that this was the heart of the submarine.  From there they could float or refloat all the tanks with water or pump that water out and take air in. 

“Q      George, I think it would be helpful if you could just draw a picture of the inside of the submarine.  We can letter the parts and then talk about them on paper.  Draw one level at a time.

“(Dasch took a pencil and started drawing explaining as he went along).  (The first picture was marked map 1 and all various parts were named and numbered.  The drawing

1351

is attached to the original of this statement only.)

“A      Numbers 1 and 2 are the oil tanks; 3 and 4 are hatches; 5 is a big deck gun forward.  6 is the anti aircraft gun.; 7 is the conning tower.

“Q      Was there anything else on the outside of the ship?

“A      There was a steel base on the tower and a walk around it.  I walked around there when they were greasing the gun.  There was a strong cable running from the front of the tower and extending from the rear of the tower all the way back to the end of the boat.

“Q      Was it up to the middle, or were there two cables?

“A      Only which ran right in the middle of the boat.

“Q      (By Mr. Johnstone) Was there a machine gun on deck?

“A      There was no machine gun on deck, but they had one which I recognized as a light infantry machine gun downstairs right inside the radio room.  Outside of that they had a number of small sub-machine guns.  When we boarded the submarine in Lorrient at the harbor, the boat was being guarded by two of the group and both of them carried little machine pistols.  I know they had a machine gun because I saw it.

“Q      (by Mr, Traynor) Could the machine gun be taken out and put on deck to be used?

“A      I don’t know, but I said to myself that this was the kind of machine gun which is know to me as a

1352

[6b] light machine gun; in other words, it could be operated by one man.  It was just like a rifle but bigger.  It was black and long.  They had a number of little machine guns. 

“Q      (By Mr. Johnson)  Would you say there were tommy-guns? 

“A      That was the kind of guns they had – a tommy-gun.”

The President.  We will pause here and if there are no comments on either side the commission will adjourn until 9:30 tomorrow morning. 

          (At 4:45 o’clock p.m., an adjournment was taken until tomorrow, Friday, July 17th, 1942 at 9:30 o’clock a.m.)