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  1. Title. Transcript of Proceedings before the Military Commission to Try Persons Charged with Offenses against the Law of War and the Articles of War, Washington D.C., July 8 to July 31, 1942
  2. Place. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota, 2004
  3. Editors. Joel Samaha, Sam Root, and Paul Sexton, eds.
  4. Transcribers. Students, University of Minnesota, May Session 2003, “Is There a Wartime Exception to the Bill of Rights?”
  5. Citations should also include the URL for the transcript site: http://www.soc.umn.edu/~samaha/nazi_saboteurs/nazi06.html

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Cover Sheet

 

STENOGRAPHIC TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

Before the

MILITARY COMMISSION TO TRY PERSONS CHARGED WITH

OFFENSES AGAINST THE LAW OF WAR AND THE

ARTICLES OF WAR

________________

Washington, D. C.

Tuesday, July 14, 1942

 

Volume VI

Pages 744 to 944

 

744

CONTENTS

Tuesday, July 14, 1942

 

Name of Witness

Direct

Cross

Redirect

Recross

J. W. Magee

747

760

 

 

Charles H. Stanley

765

851

 

 

Richard L. Johnson

855

861

 

 

Burton F. Wiand

862

 

 

 

 

EXHIBITS

 

Prosecution

For Identification

In Evidence

Read in Record

119  Photograph of writing on Dasch handkerchief

 

760

 

120-A  Heinck waiver of search

 

766

 

120-B  Heinck waiver of removal

 

766

 

120-C  Heinck waiver of custody

 

766

 

121  Statement of Heinck

 

769

769

122  Second statement of Heinck

 

788

789

123  Wallet

845

845

 

123-A  Photograph of Wallet

845

845

 

124  Registration certificate

845

846

 

125  Social Security card, Heinck

845

846

 

126 to 137  Photographs

847

850

 

138, 138, 140  Clothing

856

856

 

141, 142, 143  Photographs

857

857

 

144  Clothing

857

858

 

144-A  Photograph of clothing

857

858

 

145  Clothing

858

859

 

145-A  Photograph of clothing

859

859

 

146, 147, 148  Three waivers, Quirin

863

863

 

149  Statement of Quirin

867

868

870

150     

867

913

913

151     

867

 

 

 

--ooOoo--

745

STENOGRAPHIC TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

Before the

MILITARY COMMISSION TO TRY PERSONS CHARGED WITH

OFFENSES AGAINST THE LAW OF WAR AND THE

ARTICLES OF WAR

________________

Washington, D. C.

Tuesday, July 14, 1942

 

The Military Commission appointed by the President by order dated July 2, 1942, met, in room 5235 Department of Justice, at 10 o’clock a.m., to try for offenses against the Law of War and Articles of War, the following persons:  Ernest Peter Burger, George John Dasch, Herbert Haupt, Heinrich Harm Heinck, Edward John Kerling, Hermann Neubauer, Richard Quirin and Werner Thiel.

PRESENT:    Members of the Military Commission, as follows:

          Major General Frank R. McCoy, President,

          Major General Walter S. Grant,

          Major General Blanton Winship,

          Major General Lorenzo D. Gasser,

          Brigadier General Guy V. Henry,

          Brigadier General John T. Lewis,

          Brigadier General John T. Kennedy.

As Trial Judge Advocates:

          Honorable Francis Biddle,

                    Attorney General of the United States.

         

          Major General Myron Cramer,

                    The Judge Advocate General, U. S. Army.

          Colonel F. Granville Munson,

          Colonel John M. Weir,

          Colonel Erwin M. Treusch,

          Major William T. Thurman,

                    Officers of the Judge Advocate General’s Department.

        Oscar Cox,

                  Assistant Solicitor General of the United States.

       

        James H. Rowe, Jr.,

                  Assistant to the Attorney General

 

As Provost Marshal:

          Brigadier General Albert L. Cox

746

As Counsel for the Accused except George John Dasch:

          Colonel Cassius M. Dowell,

          Colonel Kenneth Royall,

          Major Lauson H. Stone,

          Captain William O. Hummell.

As Counsel for the Accused George John Dasch:

          Colonel Carl L. Ristine.

-         -         -         -         -

 

PROCEEDINGS

The President.  The Commission is open.

Colonel Munson.  The full personnel of the Commission, of the prosecution except Colonel Weir who is absent on official business, and of the defense are again present and all eight accused and the report are also present.

The Attorney General.  Shall I proceed?

The President.  Please.

The Attorney General.  Mr. Magee.

Lieutenant Page.  J.W. Magee.  The witness has not been sworn to secrecy.

Colonel Munson.  Mr. Magee, there are two oaths that are taken.  First is the oath of secrecy.  By direction of the commission I am informing you that violation of that oath may result in contempt proceeding or other proceedings of a criminal nature.  Of Course, you understand that in taking the oath as to secrecy.

Mr. Magee.  Yes, sir.

Colonel Munson.  You do solemnly swear that you will not divulge the proceedings taken in this trial to anyone outside the courtroom until release from your obligation by proper authority or required so to do by proper authority?

747

Mr. Magee.  Yes, sir.

Colonel Munson.  Now you will take the ordinary oath as a witness:

Do you swear that the evidence you shall give in the trial shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?

Mr. Magee.  I do.

J.W. MAGEE

was called as a witness for the prosecution and testified as follows:

Colonel Munson.  What is you name, residence or office, address, and occupation?

The Witness.  My name is J.W. Magee.  My office is the Technical Laboratory of the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Washington, D.C.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       Are you a chemist, Mr. Magee?

A        Yes, I am.

Q       How long have you been with the F. B. I.?

A        Approximately three and one-half months.

Q       I show you P-98 and ask you to examine it.

A        Yes, sir.

Q       What is it?

A        This is a handkerchief that I examined in the laboratory.

Q       Where did you get it?

A        I received this handkerchief from Mr. Traynor.

Q       And what did you do with it?

748

A        I made an examination to determine whether or not there was any secret writing present on this handkerchief.

Q       What did the examination consist of?

Colonel Royall.  May it please the Commission, we would like our objection also to cover this testimony, because it is derived from and related to the declarations or alleged confessions of the defendant Dasch, and the other seven defendants object.

The President.  May I ask if this objection and your continued objection apply to your defendants strictly with regard to the question that might be involved in conspiracy?  Your attention is called to the fact that they are under charges and specifications for other crimes and misdemeanors, so I would like to be clear on that subject.

Colonel Royall.  Yes, Sir.

Our objections on behalf of the other defendants to any confessions or statements of Dasch or any other of the defendants relate to all the changes.  As a matter of fact, we think it is entirely clear as to the other charges, that they are inadmissible.  We think they are also inadmissible as to the charge of the conspiracy, in the absence of a showing that the declarations were made during the continuance of the conspiracy by the declarant himself and in pursuance of and in furtherance of the conspiracy.

Our position on the other charges is that they are not admissible under any circumstances and that on the charge of conspiracy they are not admissible unless it is shown that the declarations were made while the declarant was continuing in the conspiracy and were made in furtherance thereof, and as to

749

that our contention is that the evidence now discloses that these declarations were not made by the declarant while he was continuing in the conspiracy and were not made by the declarant in furtherance of the conspiracy.

Do I make myself clear to the Commission?

The President.  Have you any remarks to make at this time, Mr. Attorney General?

The Attorney General.  No except this: This is the handkerchief taken from one of the defendants and it is a little different from the other matter.  You have already ruled on the other one, it seems to me.  It is a handkerchief taken from one of the defendants, as the evidence with respect to it will develop.

With respect to the other, I will not respect what I said before, but my whole conception of this case under the Commission is that any evidence that will convince a reasonable man could be properly introduced, that technical objections of this kind are not relevant under this Commission.  The defendants will have the right, of course, to take the stand and tell their story and so forth.

That is my general basic conception, which I need not expand, because it has been brought out before.

The President. I would just like to ask at this point, if this were a court where the probative clauses that you quoted had not been in question, for example, but the rules of the common law only, what would your feeling be on this statement of the defense counsel?

The Attorney General.  I would agree with Colonel Royall, it seems to me, that with respect to the other offenses, the

750

confession of one man is not evidence against another, the theory of a conspiracy being that in a joint effort the act of each man affects the other, although I think, very clearly and very frankly, the confession of one man with respect to a crime other than the conspiracy would not be admissible against another, as a matter of substantive defense.  With respect to the conspiracy, I think the picture is different, and I think I have already argued on that.

The President.  Yes.

A Member.  You are continuing your evidence now with reference to a conspiracy?  We have not passes on that point yet.

The Attorney General.  That is correct, General Winship.  With this particular witness you understand that I think that would be true also, because this was found on one man.

A Member.  I was not speaking of that.  I was speaking about the law proposition we have finally got to decide.  We have got to come to the time when we have to decide that.

The Attorney General.  Of course.

A Member.  And I think we would be very glad, I know I would, to hear from The Attorney General with reference to that proposition, as to how far this evidence that has been objected to is considered admissible for the purpose of all of the defendants here.

The Attorney General.  I will repeat again that with respect to the conspiracy it seems to me to be admissible.  I have argued that at some length.  With respect to the other substantive crimes it does not seem to me that the statement of one man can be admitted against another, under the strict

751

rules of evidence.  I am speaking as if this were a court, as General McCoy suggested.  It does not seem to me it is.  That is an entirely different proposition, of course.  But I cannot help stressing very strongly my feeling that this should not be tried in a technical, legal way and that the very purpose of the Commission is what would convince a reasonable man.

I think it is most convincing that having shown that a group of these men landed together, what each man said they were doing would, I think, be most convincing.  We are not here really dealing with technical objections to evidence.

I hope I have made myself clear.  I repeat, with respect to the conspiracy, it seems to me that the confessions are admissible.  With respect to the other defenses, if you were trying this as you try a law case, where the technical objections to evidence that have risen in the history of the common law—

The President (interposing).  May I interject there?  I will modify my question as to the extent of a normal court in time of war.

The Attorney General.  Yes.  I do not know whether the fact it was in time of war would affect the rules of procedure.

Let me repeat.  I think the evidence of the confession of one man, if you were dealing in a court of law and trying this in a court of law, would not be evidence against the other man, except of the conspiracy.  But with respect to this Commission itself it does not seem to me that the technical rules should apply, the way the Commission is drafted.

These men have been given a very fair, very careful trial.  They have counsel representing them.  They can take the stand.

752

They can tell their story.  What I am reality trying to get at is to get the truth and the facts before this Commission, and I think, with due deference, that I have not made technical objections, with one exception.  I have tried to limit that long confession, because I did not want Dasch to try to put his case in through a self-serving confession.

I hope Dasch will take the stand, that all of the defendants will.  They can or they need not as they see fit, but my real purpose is to get all of the information, all of the evidence before you, and not be controlled by any technical rules.  I have tried to be as open as I can in that way.

Now, let me say in this particular case, I think, General Winship, that this is a little different, because, this is a handkerchief found on the man.

The President. Proceed.

Colonel Royall. May it please the Commission, I want to make one statement here that I think is appropriate.

The Attorney General once before and twice during the course of his remarks to the Commission stated that the defendant had a right to take the stand and he hoped they would do so.

I do not know of any principle better established in the criminal law than the principle, first, that the failure of a defendant to take the stand shall not be weighed against him.  And it is equally well established that any comment by the prosecution as to the failure of the defendant to take the stand, whether it is an inferential allusion or a direct allusion, is not consistent with the rights which the defendant has.

753

I want to respectfully enter into the record an objection to The Attorney General’s comments relative to his hope that the defendant will take the stand and his calling to the Commission’s attention the fact that they can do so, and I move that those remarks be stricken from this record.

The Attorney General.  I had no idea of making any comment on that.  I do not think the remark was improper.  If it is, of course I withdraw it.  I was trying to give the Commission the whole picture of the case as it was being presented.  I withdraw the remark, if it is deemed improper.  I had no idea it smacked of anything of the kind and I trust the Commission realize that.

The President.  What particular remark do you wish to withdraw?  You said you were willing to withdraw it.

The Attorney General.  I said if the Commission thinks it should be withdrawn I will withdraw it.  Did the Commission think anything I said was improper?

The President.  We have not passed on that.  The question that was posed was whether you cared to withdraw any remark at this time, in answer to the counsel’s statement.

The Attorney General.  I do not think so, unless the Commission wishes me to do so.  I do not like to admit that any of my remarks are improper.

Colonel Royall.  May it please the Commission, it was not my intention to say that as reflecting at all upon The Attorney General, personally or professionally.  It was merely to make the point that the remark, even under any set of liberal rules, was not appropriate, in view of the well established doctrine that an accused could not be required to take the stand and

754

that his failure to do so could not either be weighed against him or commented on.

A member.  You make the motion now that that be stricken, do you?

Colonel Royall.  Yes, sir.

The Attorney General.  To save time, I withdraw the remark, if that would be appropriate.  I will agree that the remark be stricken from the record, without admitting that it is inappropriate.

A member.  That satisfies counsel, I presume.

Colonel Royall.  Oh, yes.  I am not interested at all in reflecting upon The Attorney General.  I did not intend so to do and there is no reason why I should.

The Attorney General.  May I proceed?

The President.  Yes.

The Attorney General.  What was the last question?

The Reporter (reading):

“Question.  What did the examination consist of?”

Questions by The Attorney General:

Q       What was the examination that you made?

A        I made a visual examination, simply looking at the handkerchief, simply looking at the handkerchief in normal light, to determine whether or not there were any slight visible pen marks on it.

Q       Were there?

A        There were none.

Q       Then did you submit it to a laboratory test?

Colonel Royall. May it please the Commission, do I understand my objection is in?  I do not want to continually arise, by I want to make certain my objection is carried forward to

755

this testimony.

The President.  I do not quite understand why you are objecting to this testimony.

Colonel Royall.  I want to say with frankness to the Commission that I am not at all certain that my objection on this is well founded.  I am making it merely for this purpose.  It is closely and directly connected with a declaration made by the defendant Dasch as to the meaning and substance of that writing.  We have objected to that and I did not want this in any sense to waive it.  That is the only purpose of this objection.  As I say, I am not certain that it should be sustained, but I do not want to be in the position of waiving the position we have taken.

The President.  The Commission would like to be dead sure just how far your objections extend.  Not in any critical sense, but simply to make sure.  I understand you are objecting to all evidence that has been given up to this point?

Colonel Royall.  I am objecting merely to the declarations of confessions or statement which witnesses on the stand say were made by certain of the defendant so far as those alleged statement affect other defendants and no further do our objections go.

This handkerchief was testified to by certain witnesses yesterday in connection with certain statements of Dasch, and it is so much a part of the same testimony that I feel that possibly we should object on that ground.  It is right hard to segregate a thing that closely related.  It is not our intention to object to any physical evidence that has been introduced, unless it is directly related to a declaration of confession

756

of one of the defendants.

A Member.  You are claiming the right of cross-examination with reference to these until that matter is ruled on?

757

Colonel Royall.  We are claiming, sir--

A Member.  That is what you are claiming, undoubtedly.  You have stated your objection.

Colonel Royall.  We are claiming that the evidence should not be admitted because it does not afford us a right to cross-examine Dasch or whoever made the statement.

A Member.  I would just let that objection be recorded.

The President.  I just want to make sure that these continuing objections are understood and that when the time comes to make a ruling, we will cover them conclusively.

A Member.  I think we all understand that we have about reached a point here where a question is raised as to whether or not there have been or have not been conspiracies, as to whether these statements that have been made are applicable or inapplicable, or admissible or inadmissible.  Of course, the Commission has to decide on that proposition within the reasonably near future.  We do not want to wait until the end of the case to do that.  Is not that your understanding of it?

The Attorney General.  My understanding was substantially that you had ruled but that the ruling was to be reconsidered.  But let me say that I cannot conceivably see how this has anything to do with the confession.  If it is so interrelated, you could say that the whole case, because its parts are so interrelated, is objectionable.

The President.  Proceed with the witness.

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       You made laboratory chemical examination of the handkerchief?

A        Yes, sir, I did.

Q       What did you do?

758

A        Well, I subjected the handkerchief to the action of ammonia fumes.

Q       Do you have the ammonia fumes in court?

A        No, sir, I have them in the exhibit room.

Q       What do you have here (indicating)?

A        Oh, yes; Mr. Ladd brought them in.

Q       Will you subject the handkerchief to the ammonia fumes now, so that the Court can see what happens?  Explain as you go along what you are doing.

A        I know on each side of the handkerchief the writing appears that is on the back side with reference to the initial that is on the handkerchief.

Q       You know that now after having tested it?

A        Yes, sir.  This is simply just stretching the handkerchief on the cloth—on the board—so that it can be read properly.

Q       So that the record will show, tell what you are doing

A        That was the ammonium hydroxide that I put in, which will develop the writing.

Q       You then do what?

A        I show the ammonium hydroxide.

Q       What are you doing now?

A        Placing the handkerchief over the ammonium hydroxide.

(At this point in the demonstration red writing appeared on the handkerchief.)

The Attorney General.  Can the Commission see?

The President.  The Commission can see and smell.

Questions by The Attorney General:

Q       All right Mr. Magee.  Take the stand again.

759

Did that bring out any writing in the handkerchief?

A        Yes, sir, it did.

Q       What was the writing?

A        The writing across the top line: the first word was Maria.

Da was the second word.

The third was written very indistinctly and could not be read.

The fourth was Lopez.

The next word is Lisbon.

The next was not written distinctly and could not be read.

Then there appeared a capital D.

The next word could not be read.

The next word stated with a capital M, and part of that word was, it appeared to be, Mascarenhas, followed by the numerals 52.

The next line read Father Kregger or Krepper.

Then, Gone Frey, RFD 2—the numeral 2—Box 40, Rahway.

The next line started, Bingo, followed by the name Walter Frohling.

That name was followed by the address 3643 or 8643 Wipple, Chi.

The next line was Helmut Leiner or Leiher, 21-58 (21-58) 73 (37) Str, Astoria.

The last line was Franz Daniel Pastorius.

Q       I show you Exhibit P-119, which has already been identified. Is this a photograph of the handkerchief?

A        Yes, sir, that is the photograph that was made.

760

The Attorney General.  I cannot remember whether or not I placed this in evidence.  I offer it now.

(Exhibit P-119, photograph of writing on Dasch handkerchief, was received in evidence.)

 

The Attorney General.  Cross-examine.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

Questions by Colonel Ristine:

Q       Mr. Magee, could you tell me the date when you first saw the handkerchief?

A        June 22.

Q       Did you meet Mr. Dasch on that occasion?

A        I don’t recall if I met Mr. Dasch on June 22.  I met him either on June 22 or one day subsequent to June 22.

Q       Would you say June 22 or 23?

A        Yes, sir.

Q       Was this the handkerchief in the possession of Mr. Dasch, which he had turned over to the F.B.I. agents?

A        It was the handkerchief that Mr. Traynor gave me and told me Mr. Dasch had given to him.

Q       I believe Mr. Dasch was present, was he, while you were bringing out what was written on the handkerchief?

A        Mr. Dasch was not present the first time I brought that out, no, sir.

Q       Well, he had previously told the FBI agents that there was writing on the handkerchief, had he not?

A        So Mr. Traynor told me, yes, sir.

Q       Insofar as he could, he aided you and the other agents in bringing it out, did he not?

A        He didn’t aid me personally, because I brought it

761

out the first time before Mr. Dasch was brought up to the laboratory by Mr. Traynor.

Q       Well, did Mr. Dasch know, after he told Mr. Traynor that the writing was there, that you had been successful in bringing it out?  You did not advise him that you had brought it out, did you?

A        Oh, my boss, the chief of the laboratory, advised Mr. Traynor that we had been successful in developing the writing on the handkerchief.  Photographs were made and sent down to Mr. Traynor.

Q       But what I am just trying to develop is that Mr. Dasch did everything he could to aid and assist the FBI agents in learning everything there was to know about the handkerchief and the other facts in connection with this matter; that is correct, is it not?

A        Well, I don’t know what Mr. Dasch told Mr. Traynor.  I would like to say that when Mr. Traynor brought Mr. Dasch to the laboratory on the second occasion, in which this writing was developed, Mr. Dasch did all he could to help decipher, if I may use that word.  He helped to decipher the rather poor writing appearing on the handkerchief.

Q       I believe that the next to the last line is the most difficult one to decipher; is that right?  I do not know how you might designate it, but I have in mind that one there (indicating).

A        No, sir, the first line is the most difficult, in my opinion, to decipher.

Q       This one here (indicating) is difficult to decipher, is it not?

762

A        Not appreciably, no, sir.

A Member.  Which line is that?

Colonel Ristine.  It all looks difficult to me.  I was asking about this line here (indicating).  He said the top line was the most difficult.

Questions by Colonel Ristine:

Q       At any rate, Mr. Dasch did everything he could to aid you in deciphering all of the lines?

A        Yes, sir, that is true.

Q       I believe he told you also that he wrote this on this handkerchief?

A        I believe he told me, yes, that he wrote that on the handkerchief himself.

Q       I think he told you at that time that he was not particularly interested in the Lisbon or Spain or Portugal address and had not been particular to write it for that reason, did he not?

A        No, sir, he didn’t tell me that.

Q       That statement was not made in your presence?

A        No sir, not in my presence?

Q       Did you talk to him about any of the addresses on any other handkerchief?

A        No, sir.

Q       You did not talk to him about any other address.  During the time you were developing this writing, Dasch was just in protective custody; that is correct, is it not?

A        That I couldn’t say, sir.

Q       Well we had better get the date, then, to be sure about that.

763

The Attorney General.  He does not know.  It is a matter of record.  This witness does not know that.

Colonel Ristine.  I am just going to be sure about the dates.

Questions by Colonel Ristine:

Q       I believe you stated you talked to Dasch on either the 22nd or the 23rd of June?

A        Yes, sir.

Colonel Ristine.  I might just call the Commission’s attention to the stipulated memorandum, which states that Mr. Dasch was in protective custody from 6/19/42 until 8 p.m. of 6/24/42.

Questions by Colonel Ristine:

Q       It was rather difficult for me to figure out these addresses.  Mr. Dasch suggested to me that the European address is the first line; that these (indicating) are American addresses.  Is that correct?

A        Yes, sir, that is correct.

Q       The European address is the one that it is very difficult to read?

A        Yes, sir that is correct.

Q       Do you not recall that he said to you when he was aiding in deciphering them that he was not concerned particularly with that address at the time he wrote it?

A        He didn’t make that statement, in my opinion, that could be interpreted as that.  The only remark that Mr. Dasch made to me personally concerning that European address was one in which he stated that at the time he wrote the third word appearing in that address, which in either Spanish or Portuguese

764

is Conceicco, he thought of the American word “conscience.”  That was the only time that Mr. Dasch made any statement other than his actual efforts to help me decipher the document.  That is the only time that he strayed, you might say, from the actual work.

Q       I think you knew—or did you?—the circumstances under which he had voluntarily reported to the F.B.I. and advised them of everything he knew in connection with the matter?

A        No, sir, I didn’t know the circumstances at all.  I didn’t know anything about the case.

Q       You do not know about that.  The three American addresses are clear, are they not?

A        Yes, sir, they could be read.

Q       The one that is not clear and that you had difficulty about was the European address?

A        That is correct, sir.

Colonel Ristine.  That is all.

Colonel Royall.  No question by the other defendants.

The President.  Are there any questions by the Commission?

There seems to be none.  The witness is excused.

765

The Attorney General.  We will call Mr. Stanley.

Lieutenant Page.  This witness has not been sworn as to secrecy.

Colonel Munson.  You will first take an oath as to secrecy.  I am instructed by the Commission to inform you that violation of that oath may result in contempt proceedings or any other proper proceedings, either of a military or a civil nature.  Do you understand that?

Mr. Stanley, Yes, Sir.

Colonel Munson.  Do you solemnly swear that you will not divulge the proceedings taken at this trial to anyone outside of this court room until released from your obligation by proper authority of required so to do by such proper authority?

Mr. Stanley.  I do.

CHARLES H. STANLEY

was called as a witness for the prosecution and testified as follows:

Colonel Munson.  Will you please state your name, residence or office address, and occupation?

The Witness.  Charles H. Stanley.  I am a Special Agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation, attached to the New York Office.

DIRECT EXAMINATION

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       On June 20, 1942, did you apprehend the defendant

766

Heinrich Harm Heinck?

A        I did.

Q       Where?

A        At 74th Street and Amsterdam Avenue, New York City.

Q       At what time?

A        At approximately 5:15 p.m.

Q       Where did you take him?

A        To the New York Office at 607, Court House, Foley Square.

Q       Who were present when you got there?

A        Agent W. W. Fisher and Langille.

Q       Did you take waivers for the defendant Heinck?

A        Yes, sir; we did.

Q       I show you documents marked P-120-A, P-120-B and P-120-C and ask you if these are waivers that you took?

A        Yes, sir; they are.

Q       These are waivers of what?

A        Waiver of custody and waiver of search, to search his apartment, and waiver of removal.

Q       That is signed?

A        Yes, sir.

Q       In your presence?

A        Yes.

Q       And witnessed?

A        Yes, sir.

The Attorney General.  I will offer them in evidence.  I will not take time to read them unless counsel wishes me to.

(Heinck waiver of search was marked Exhibit P-120-A; Heinck waiver of removal was marked exhibit P-120-B; marked exhibit P-120-C and were received in evidence.)

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Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       Did you take any statement form the defendant Heinck?

A        Yes, sir.

Q       When was that taken?

A        One statement was taken on June 21 and one on June 23.

Q       Who was present when the statement of June 23 was taken?

A        Agent R. L. Johnson.

Q       What time was that taken?

A        The statement was signed at approximately 5:30 pm in the evening.

Q       Over a period of how many hours was the statement taken and under what circumstances?  Will you describe to the commission just how it was taken?

A        He brought Heinck to the office on Saturday afternoon, the 20th, and we talked with him—

Colonel Royall.  May it please the Commission, I think this would shorten it.  The defendant Heinck makes no objection to the introduction of the statements.  That might shorten the examination.  The other six defendants whom we represent, and also Colonel Ristine’s Client, do not object to the statements so far as they relate to them.

The Attorney General.  We have not offered them yet.  Colonel I understand the stipulation covers this also; is that correct?

The Attorney General.  Yes.

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       Just briefly tell the Commission under what

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circumstances these statements were taken.

A        In the beginning Heinck gave us the first statement, and then after giving us this statement he told us that he had not given us the truth.

Q       How long a period of time did he talk to you with respect to his first statement, and how was it taken down?

A        On Saturday night we talked with him approximately four hours, and we began dictation on the statement—

Q       Saturday night was what date?

A        June 20.

Q       Did you take anything down on that date?

A        Yes, sir, we did.  We took notes as Heinck gave us the information, and after he had given us all that he wanted to give us at that time, we began the dictation of the statements.

Q       On the next day was what prepared?

A        On Sunday we began talking to Heinck again at approximately 10:30 and finished the dictation of the statement at approximately 1:30, and Heinck signed the statement that afternoon at about 5 o’clock after it had been typed.

Q       Did he read it before signing it?

A        He read it aloud to us.

Q       Did he suggest any changes before signing it?

A        Yes, sir.

Q       Were they made?

A        He was allowed to make them in his own handwriting.

Q       Did he sign each page?

A        He signed each page of the statement.

Q       I draw your attention to page 5 of the statement.

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Is that a correction made by Heinck?

A        Yes sir.

Q       Who were the witnesses to that statement?

A        Agent Fisher witnessed this statement.

The Attorney General.  I offer the statement in evidence as Prosecution Exhibit No. 121.

The President.  The Commission understands that that is the second statement?

The Attorney General.  No, sir.  It is the first one of June 21.

(Statement of Defendant Heinck was marked P-121 and received in evidence.)

The Attorney General.  I think I will ask you to read this statement now.

The Witness (reading):                        New York, New York

June 21, 1942

“STATEMENT OF HEINRICH HARM HEINCK”

“I, Heinrich Harm Heinck, also known as Henry Mayner and Kajner, make the following voluntary statement to Special Agent C. H. Stanley and W. W. Fisher and R. L. Johnson, who have identified themselves to me as Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, U. S. Department of Justice.  No threats or promises have been made to me in securing this statement.

“I was born June 27, 1907 at Hamburg, Germany, where I attended public schools and trade school.  I lived in Hamburg until 1926, working in the Hamburg American Shipping Company machine shop.  I then started working on the SS ‘WESTPHALIA’, as an oilier and machinist helper.  This

770

boat was owned by the Hamburg American Line and sailed from Hamburg to New York.  On my third trip on this boat from Hamburg to New York I jumped the boat at New York City and went to live in a rooming house on Amsterdam Avenue near Columbus Circle, operated by a Polish family.  This was in the middle of the summer of 1926, around July or August.

“From the time I arrived in the United States until I left in 1939 I worked at the following places:

“Thompson’s Restaurant

“Blue Kitchen Restaurant

“Park Central Hotel, where I worked as a busboy

1088 Park Avenue, as a handy a man

250 West 94th Street, corner of Broadway, New York City, for a Mr. Glotz

“Mr. And Mrs. Kemp, Cedarhurst, Long Island, as a chauffeur

“American District Telegraph Company, New York City.  For about four or five years I worked here as a machinist, making electrical devices

“Manhattan Engineering Company, as a machinist

“International Projector Company, Cold Street, New York City

Ackele Camera Company

“In about January of 1933 I married Anna Isabella Coetz, who lived at 250 West 94th Street, New York City.  I met Anna at this place where I was also employed.  Anna and I also after our marriage were employed together. In the home of Mr. and Mrs. Kemp, Cedarhurst, Long Island.

“Around July, 1938, I began working for a branch of the C. L. Norden Company, Lafayette Street , New York

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City.  I was not employed in the Norden Bomb Sight branch, but was working on the 17th floor where I worked mostly on the bench lathe, turning out gears and kinds of pins, and screws, which I believe were made into the bomb sight.  I remained with this company for about eight or nine months.  My boss’s name was Berger.  While there I met Alfred Schneider, who was employed on the big lathe in my section, and a number of other German aliens were working there.

“Around March 1939 Schneider told me that he had been contacted by a man from the German Labor Front.  I don’t recall this man’s name.  Schneider told me that we had a chance to return to Germany with half of our fare paid by the German Labor Front.

“After this Schneider and I went to the German Consulate and met a man from the German Labor Front, who explained to us that conditions were good over there and a job would be waiting for us when we arrived.  When we left the Consulate, the man gave me a ticket which I later took to the Hamburg American Steamship Line and obtained two tickets, one for my wife and one for myself.  I paid the sum of $60 for each ticket.  When I handed the slips to the man at the steamship line, my tickets were already made out and already and were immediately handed to me.

“After obtaining these tickets, my wife and I left New York City on the SS ‘HANSA’ of the Hamburg American Line for Hamburg, Germany, sometime in March 1939.  On the trip over I saw a man who had been employed at the Norden Company, and who was also going to Hamburg, Germany.

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after being contracted by the German Labor Front Schneider accompanied me on this trip.

“At the time we arrived in Hamburg we were met by representatives from the German Labor Party and who obtained from us a life history.  We were instructed to go to the office of the German Labor Front in Hamburg within two days after our arrival.  The first day I visited my mother in Hamburg and the next day I went to the German Labor Front where I met Schneider.  At this office we were asked what type of work we wanted to do and they gave us the names of several places where we could work.  There was a group of about twenty-five men at this office from America.  I told them I wanted to work at Braunschweig in a branch of the Volkswagenwerk factory.  Schneider, who was also at the Labor Front office, was assigned to work at Kiel, Germany.  I have not seen Schneider since that time.  I remained in Hamburg about a week and went to South Germany, near Stuttgart to visit my mother-in-law, where I stayed about one week and then went to my job at Braunschweig.  My wife joined me in about two weeks.  After arriving in Braunschweig I immediately started work in the Volkswagenwerk, as a tool maker.  This was sometime in the latter part of April, 1939.  I worked at the Volkswagenwerk factory from this time until I left Germany around April 1, 1942.

“Around the first of April, 1942, Kurt Laas, who was in charge of the tools at the factory came to my home and asked me if I would like a chance to go my home and asked me if I would like a chance to go back to America and do something for Germany.  I didn’t give

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him an answer at that time but told him I would think it over.  I don’t know whether he used the word ‘sabotage’ but he hinted that this was the type of work I was to do.  I thought this was a good chance for me to return to America.

“A few days after this meeting with Laas, I talked with Dick Querin.  I met Dick Querin at the factory and became acquainted with him and found out that he had at one time lived in America and started working at the factory around the first quarter of the year 1939.  I talked with Querin about my conversation with Laas.  Querin asked me if I was going to America with the Sabotage Squad, which I talked about with Laas.  I told Querin I would like to know more about it, but finally told him I was going with the squad.

Querin told me he had also talked with Laas about this squad and that he also was coming to America for the same purpose.  After I talked with Querin, Laas talked with me several times and I told him I would go as he had asked me.

“About a week later I received at my home a type-written letter, which did not contain any signature or government stamp and it directed me to go to Quinsweec, which is located about one hour’s ride on the train from Berlin Germany to a farm named Quince Cut, around April 1, 1942.  After showing the letter to my wife and Laas and Querin, I took it to the Personnel Officer at the factory, and he advised that I could not go for the reason that he did not believe that the letter was official.

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However, I decided to go and report to the farm, where I met Dr. Schulz and Dr. Koenig, who showed me about the place.

Querin made the trip to the farm with me on the bus and was also shown about the place.  Later in the day six other men arrived and we were introduced to them.  The next day a meeting was held and the doctors talked to all of us, eight in all, about the work the soldiers were doing at the front, and stated that as they were doing their duty it was up to us to help by receiving training in Germany for sabotage work in America.

“The eight men in this class were:

“Dick Querin, who I now know as Richard Quintas

“Peter Burger

“George Dasch

who were grouped with me and who were assigned to come to the United States with me to work.  Dasch was the appointed leader of this group and was to receive instructions from Germany as to the work to be carried on in America.

“The other four men were placed in another group and were also to come to the United States for sabotage purposes.  I only know them by their first names, which were:

Swens, a tall husky German fellow, who looked something like a Swede

“Scotty, who looked like a Scotsman

“Herman  about 5 ft. 8 in., a big strong German

“Jerry, short, dirty blond, about 38 yrs. of age who appeared to be the leader of this group

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I believe that the other seven men attending this school were approximately the same age.

“We attended school for a period of three weeks and were instructed in different types of explosives, such as time bombs, watch bombs, incendiary pencils, match boxes made in timing devices, as well as a tin can or other metal container made into a device by the use of water, i. e., by filling the can with water and allowing the water to gradually run out, thereby making an electrical connection.  We were told to wrap incendiary pencils in saw dust and place them in factories or warehouses, and that they would cause a fire in a period of a day or two.  These pencils contained devices, which could be regulated as to time.

“We were also instructed as to the ways of destroying or damaging ships, one of which was the use of a time clock for setting off an explosion.  We were also told that we should place sand and some emery dust in bearings and machinery of railroad trains and factories and my specific job in America was to get a position in a factory, which was manufacturing war materials and to wreck various parts of machinery by this means.  They pointed out to us that the submarines were sinking the freighters and that we should do something in America about stopping the railroads.

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“We were also instructed in the use of a key ring as a means to set off a time explosion.  This was down by springing the ring open and placing a piece of sugar candy between the sides of the rings.  This could be attached to a battery and some type of explosives, and by throwing the candy and ring in a can of water the candy would melt and soften the sugar, and the ring would therefore close and cause electrical contact and set off the explosion.  With reference to the destruction of boats, I recall they told us that the time bomb or explosion should be on the side of the boat and not in the center.  We were also told to circulate among the people in America and if we ran across any people talking against the way we were supposed to agree with them and point out that America had no reason to be in the war and that Germany wanted nothing from America.

“After completing our school, about three weeks, we were given a week’s vacation, and I went back to Braunschweig with Querin.  I remained at my home several days and then took my wife to her parents in South Germany near Stuttgart.  From there I went to Berlin, as we had been instructed by Dr. Schulz and Dr. Koenig to report Berlin in about a week.  In Berlin I again met Querin, Peter Burger, George Dasch, Jerry Scotty, Swens, and Hermann, all of whom had attended the school with me at the farm.  There was also one man by the name of Ernest who also attended the school with us at the farm, but not steady.  I believe that he had previous training before

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attending this school and was also to be used in sabotage work.

“We reported to Dr. Schulz in Berlin at an apartment house on Tounus Street, I believe.  The first day there were nine present, together with Dr. Koenig and Dr. Schulz, but Ernest left the second day, and I have not seen him since.  Dr. Schulz told us that we were to leave for Paris any day.  He also said that our wives would be taken care of and would receive money each month.  He also told us that we would take with us explosives and told us to tell no one of our trip.  Dr. Schulz did not tell each of us exactly what we were to do in America, but George Dasch was appointed as a leader and he was to have the plans.  Dasch seemed to have had more training than the other three of us in our group.  We stayed in Berlin, reporting each day to Dr. Schulz at the apartment house, for about a week.

“We left Berlin around May 24th or 25th on the train for Paris, France.  We took with us four wooden boxes containing explosives.  They told us at school that we would take to America explosives, incendiary pencils, and other devices in which we had received training in the school.  Dr. Schulz had charge of these boxes.  At the time we left Berlin there were ten in the group, including Dr. Schulz and Dr. Koenig.  When we got to Paris we went to a hotel, where my group stayed for two or three days.  The group, including Jerry, Swens, Scotty, and Herman, left before my group, and I believe they told me they were going to Lorraine,

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France.  We were told that we were coming to America on a U-boat but were not told where we would land.

“We left Paris one night on the train for Lorraine.  My group got on the submarine in Lorraine early one morning around May 28, 1942.  I don’t recall the exact number on this submarine but believe it included the number 200.  All four of my group became seasick and we talked very little on the voyage.  Almost every night the submarine came to surface and we were allowed to come part of the way to the deck to smoke.  When we were in the middle of the ocean we were allowed on some occasions to go all the way to the top of the deck.  At the time we left Lorraine the four boxes of explosives were put on the submarine.

“It took us fourteen days to come from Lorraine, and we landed at a point on Long Island.  At the time we landed we did not know where we were.  One day before we landed we were called together by Dasch, and he gave each of us a canvas belt which contained money sewed inside, and I think it was around $4,000.  He also gave us some tens and twenties and smaller bills besides the money in the belt.  Early on the morning of Saturday, June 13, 1942, we were instructed to get ready to come ashore.  They called us and we came to the deck, and they already had a boat ready for us to go ashore.  The four boxes of explosives were loaded into the rubber boat by the crew, together with a large bag of clothing.  Each of us at that time was wearing a sub uniform.  When we left the sub in the boat there were my group, consist-

779

ing of four men, and two crewmen.  During the trip from the submarine to shore we almost turned over due to the waves.  When we got to shore we all left the boat and I was assigned to take the clothes bag over the dunes on the beach, and the four boxes were carried by either the other three or the sailors.  Before we left the boat the instructions were that the sailors were to help us in carrying the explosives to the beach.  We also had two short handle shovels with us.  On the way over from the boat I was wearing a cap with a German swastika on it, but it blew off my head and was lost.  This was a cap from the sub uniform.  There were several trips made from the rubber boat to where we hid the explosives over the dunes.  After I carried the sack of clothing to the beach I remained there and changed my clothes and took all of the other fellows’ clothes out of the bag.  All of us were wearing swimming suits under our uniforms.  The plans were to send our uniforms back to the submarine with the two crewmen, but Burger came back to the dunes and told me that Dasch had met a sailor and Dasch told him that the plans would have to be changed and Burger brought the clothes back, and we then dug holes in the dunes and buried the clothes and the shovels in one hole and the explosives in another.  When Dasch came back to where I was he told me that he had fixed it up with the sailor.  Besides the four uniforms we also buried three pairs of rubber beach shoes, and I think Burger left a pair of high-top shoes.

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“After we buried these articles we laid on the sand for about a half an hour or three-quarters of an hour.  During the time we were there there were search lights shining from different directions covering the dunes, but we could not be seen because of the heavy fog.  While we were there we heard no one return to the beach there.  We did see a couple of cars going up and down the beach road.

“We then walked toward the road and walked along the road but in the wrong direction, going toward Montauk Point.  We then turned back and followed a sand road which carried us to some railroad tracks.  We followed the railroad tracks to the railroad station at Amagansett, Long Island.  After purchasing tickets we took a westbound train to New York, shortly before 7:00 a.m., and upon reaching Jamaica, Long Island, left the train, and Dasch instructed us to split up and told me to go with Querin.  Before leaving Dasch said he might stay at the Knickerbocker Hotel.  While in Jamaica Querin and I bought slacks and sport shirts.  After eating and getting a shoe shine, we caught the BNT subway, and got off around 34th Street.  When we got off the subway we asked a man in the street for the name of a cheap hotel, and I believe he told us the Martinque.  We then went to Macy’s, where I purchased some underwear, shirts, socks, an overnight kit, and a Gladstone suitcase.  Querin also bought some clothing.

“We then registered at the Martinique Hotel, under the names of Henry Kayner for me and Quintas for Querin.

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I think he used the name of Richard or Dick.  This was around 4:00 or 5:00 p.m.  We remained in the hotel Saturday night, and on Sunday we went to the Swiss Chalet Restaurant, where Quintas had made arrangements to meet Dasch and Burger, but neither Dasch nor Burger showed up, and Quintas said we were to meet them in front of Grant’s Tomb if we did not see them at the Swiss Chalet.  We then met Dasch and Burger in front of Grant’s Tomb around five o’clock Sunday evening.  During this meeting Quintas talked with Dasch and I was talking with Burger.  Quintas later told me that he made arrangements for us to meet Dasch and Burger on Monday, and we did meet in front of the Public Library, around lunchtime.  The four of us then had lunch together at a cafeteria.  At the time we met Dasch and Burger I gave Dasch the canvas belt which had been given to me on the submarine and which contained about $3,500.  I opened this belt before I gave it to Dasch and took out $500.  I told Dasch to keep the money or deposit it with the other money.

“Monday morning Quintas and I moved out of the Martinique Hotel and rented separate rooms at a rooming House at 149 West 76th Street, which we found advertised in the newspaper.  The next time Quintas and I saw Burger was at the Swing Club on 52nd Street.  Burger told us at this time that Dasch had left town, but he did not say where he had gone.  I don’t think that Burger knew himself where Dasch was.

“The next day Quintas left his room and told me

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he was going to see Burger at the Swing Club.  I remained in my room.  Upon Quintas’ return he told me that Burger had gotten the address of some girls who lived at 144 East 86th Street, and on Friday night, around five or six o’clock, Quintas and I met Burger on the corner of 76th Street and Amsterdam Avenue, and all of us went to Burger’s hotel room at the Governor Clinton Hotel.  After Quintas called the girls two times, we left the hotel and went to their apartment, where we remained until approximately two or three o’clock in the morning.  Quintas and I talked about the fact that Dasch had not shown up with Burger during the last two or three meetings and we thought that he had run out on us, but were not sure about it, and after leaving the girls’ place Burger told us that George Dasch had left and it looked as if he was not coming back.  I believed that Dasch had gone to meet someone to receive instructions for all of us, because he was the appointed leader and was to supervise our activities.  Before leaving the girls’ house we arranged to meet Burger at three o’clock Saturday afternoon at the Rogers Peet store at the corner of 41st Street and Fifth Avenue.

“On Saturday, June 20, 1942, Quintas and I left our rooms at about 11:00 a.m., and after eating we attended the Embassy Newsreel Theatre, where we saw two newsreels, one of which was about the sinking of ships at Pearl Harbor, and the other was about the parade in New York City.  After leaving the theatre

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we walked to the Rogers Peet clothing store at 41st Street and Fifth Avenue, where we met Burger at exactly 3:00p.m.  After making several purchases we left Rogers Peet and went directly across the street to a bar and restaurant.  We were here about forty-five minutes, and drank some beer and had something to eat.  We then left the bar and restaurant and walked to the corner of 40th Street and Fifth Avenue, where Quintas and I shook hands with Burger and left him.  We were talking about going to a beach or to some place to swim, possibly to Palisades Park, but no definite arrangements were made.  Quintas and I then caught an uptown bus, which we left at 72nd Street and Broadway, and walked toward our apartments building.  Quintas walked on ahead and I made several purchases at drug, fruit, and delicatessen stores, and when I left the delicatessen store I was taken into custody by men who identified themselves as Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

“I wish to state that although I volunteered to come to America with the sabotage squad I was encouraged to come because I wanted to return to America to live and felt that this was a good opportunity to get to the United States.  I also wish to add that during our course over there they told us that we were to remain in America until the war was over, and that we could then return on boats.  At the time they gave us these instructions I asked a question as to how we would be able to return, if necessary, before the war was over, having in mind that I might have a nervous breakdown or

784

sickness in the family, and Dr. Schulz told me that it would be impossible to attempt to bring anyone back from America in a submarine before the end of the war.  In connection with sabotage activities in the United States, the squad was instructed to carry out their work in such a manner that no persons would be killed, but that it was important for us to stop or interrupt the manufacture of war materials in the United States and the transportation system.

“I have read this statement which consists of this and eight other pages, and it is true to the best of my recollection.”

 

That is signed by Heinrich Harm Heinck and witnessed by W. W. Fisher and C. H. Stanley.

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       Now, thereafter did Heinck say whether or not at all those statements were true and correct in that first statement?

A        He said they were not.

Q       Which statements did he say were not correct?

A        He told us he had given some wrong names for the second group of men coming to the United States.

Q       In what other connection did he say the first statement was not

correct?

A        He told us that the statement given to us by him about giving Dasch the $3600 was also false.

Q       Did he cover the statement with respect to giving Dasch the $3600 in a subsequent written statement?

A        No, sir, he did not.

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Q       What did he say to you that he had done with the $3600 and the money belt?

A        He told me that he had given the money belt containing approximately $3600 to Herman Faje.

Q       How do you spell that?

A        H-e-r-m-a-n F-a-j-e.

Q       Where?

A        He told us Faje lived near the 36th Street stop of the Jamaica, Long Island, subway, approximately one block away.

Q       Did he state to you any other matters in which the first statement was incorrect?

A        Yes.  He told us that he had not met Dasch on Monday, as he had given in the previous statement, but the last time he saw Dasch was Sunday night.

Q       The last time he had ever seen him?

A        Yes, the last time he had ever seen him.

Q       Do you know whether or not he knew that any of the other defendants had been apprehended?

A        He did not.

Q       Were there any corrections in this statement of June 21st that he made subsequently?

A        Yes.  He told us that the information given by him about his being recruited in sabotage school was incorrect.

Q       And what was the correct information that he gave you with respect to that statement?

A        He told us that in January of 1942 Walter Kappe, whom he had known in the United States, came to his home town, Braunschweig, and held a meeting, and that Kappe was instrumental in his coming to the United States.

786

Q       Did he cover that correction in a later written statement?

A        He did, sir.

Q       Did he make any other correction with respect to this statement of June 21st?

A        Yes, sir.

Q       What was that?

A        He went into detail as to his course at this school, and he also told us that Kappe was a lieutenant, that Kappe wore a German uniform while there.

Q       Did he make a second written statement?

A        He did.

A        When did he make it?

A        This statement was made on June the 23rd.

Q       I show you an exhibit marked P-122 and ask you whether that is the second statement made by the defendant Heinck.  Is that the second statement?

A        It is.

Q       Is it signed on each page?

A        It is.

Q       And signed at the end?

Q       Yes, sir.

Q       In the presence of what agents?

A        Of myself and Agent R. L. Johnstone.

Q       What time was it made in the day?

A        This statement was started on the evening of June the 23rd and he finished reading the statement and signed it on the 27th.

Q       I direct your attention to what appears to be a

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correction on page 2.  Is that a correction made by Heinck?

A        It is, sir.

Q       And did he initial it?

A        Yes.

Q       Those are his initials?

A        Yes.

Q       There are a number of similar corrections running through this statement?

A        Yes, sir.

Q       And were they all made by Heinck?

A        They were.

Q       Were they all initialed?

A        Yes, sir.

Q       He read it over, did he?

A        Yes, sir.

Q       Did he read it aloud?

A        He did, sir.

Q       And he made the correction as he came to the particular points he wanted to correct?

A        Yes, sir.

The Attorney General.  We offer this in evidence.

Now, may it please the Commission, this is about a 26-page or 28-page statement.  It covers the matters somewhat more in detail.  I have copies for the Commission, or, if you would prefer, I will have the witness read it now.

What would Colonel Royall think about it?

Colonel Royall.  I do not know of any other method.  I wish there were some way to avoid the necessity of doing it.  There are two complications about it.  In the first place, if

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we attempt to summarize it, where there are some differences difficulty might arise.

The Attorney General.  Perhaps it had better be read.  I did not want the Commission to think we were taking up the time unnecessarily.  With your permission, I will have it read.

Colonel Royall.  If I knew of a practical method to do it I would be glad to suggest it.

The President.  I understand that your stipulations will continue to lie against this?

Colonel Royall.  As to the other defendants, yes.

The President.  Yes.

Colonel Royall.  That would be another complication, to try to give a summary.

(The second statement of Heinrich Heinck, P-122, was thereupon received in evidence.)

 

The Attorney General.  All right.  Will you read it then?

The President.  May I ask, in view of the time, whether either of the counsel would care to have a brief recess of ten minutes?

The Attorney General.  Very glad to.

The President.  The Commission will recess for ten minutes.

(An informal recess was taken, at the conclusion of which the following occurred:)

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The President.  The Commission will open.

Colonel Munson.  The personnel of the Commission, of the prosecution except Colonel Weir, whose absence was previously noted, and of the defense; the eight defendants, and the reporter are again present.

The witness is also back on the stand and is reminded that he is still under oath.

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       Will you read the statement of June 23?

A        (Reading):

New York, N.Y.,

June 23, 1942.

“I, Henry Harm Heinck, make the following voluntary statement to R. L. Johnson and C. H. Stanley whom I know to be Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.  No threats or promises have been made to me and I make this statement of my own free will.  This statement is in addition to a nine page statement made by me on June 21, 1942 and is to add to and correct information given by me at that time.  The nine page statement which I made and signed on June 21, 1942 is true and correct except in so far as it conflicts with the information in this statement.

“I finished public school in Hamburg, Germany in 1922 and thereafter continued my training by serving an apprenticeship in the machine shops of the Hamburg-American Steamship Lines in Hamburg, Germany.  I finished my apprenticeship in 1926 and then started working as an oiler and machinist’s

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helper on the S.S. Westphalia of the Hamburg-American Lines.

“After having jumped ship at the Port of New York in 1926, I immediately got employment at a Thompson’s Restaurant on Columbus Circle in New York City.  I worked at Thompson’s Restaurant for about two weeks and then obtained employment at a Blue Kitchen Restaurant at 51st Street and Broadway in New York City.  I was employed by the Blue Kitchen for about two years and then got a job with the Park Central Hotel as a bus boy where I worked for around six months.  I was then employed at 1083 Park Avenue as a handyman for a little over a year.  After this I worked for about a year at a building located at 250 West 94th Street as handyman and elevator operator.  It was at this place that I met my wife.

“My wife came to the United States in 1928 and she later took out her first papers, but never became a citizen.  I have at no time taken out my first papers since I jumped ship.

“After I married, my wife and I worked at Cedarhurst, L.I. for a family by the name of Kemp.  I was employed as a chauffeur and my wife as housekeeper.  We remained here for about eight months.

“I also was employed for about four or five years at the American District Telegraph Company and the Manhattan Engineering Company as machinist and lathe hand.  I was employed here off and on for several months.  Later I was working for the Inter-

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national Projector Company for a short time and then with the Ackele Camera Company for about eight or nine months where I was employed as an all-round mechanic.  After leaving this job, I then started working for the American Machine and Tool Manufacturers, which is a branch of the C.L. Norden Company.  I worked here from about July 1938 until I left the United States for Germany around March 1939.

“In 1934 I joined the German-American Bund in New York City.  I was what is known as an Ordnungs Dienst, which is similar to an usher.  The Bund held regular meetings once each week, but I only attended about once a month.  The meetings were held at the Yorkville Casino; Turn Hall, on the corner of Lexington Avenue and 86th Street; [ ]bling’s Casino, 156th Street and Third Avenue, Bronx, N.Y.  During the meetings I wore a uniform consisting of black riding breeches, white shirt, black boots, black tie, and wide black belt.  During the time I was a member of the Bund, Dr. Schnurch was leader of the Bund in America.  Part of this time, Anton Naegele was one of the local leaders of the Bund.  During my connection with the Bund, we were lectured to on National Socialism and also about the German race.  The heads of the Bund then also spoke to us about the reasons why the German people in America should return to Germany.  They pointed out that the Germans should be one big family and remain Germans.  They told us not to forget the old country.

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“During my connection with the Bund in New York City, one of the main speakers was Walter Kappe.  Kappe was publisher of the Bund newspaper which is called Weckeuf and Beobachter.  I first met Kappe in New York City around 1935 and on at least one occasion, Kappe came to my home with some other friends, two of whom were Willie Rentelmann and Fritz Reinsh.  Rentelmann and Reinsh were also members of the German-American Bund and later returned to Germany.  I was a member of the Bund until sometime in 1935 when they told us only citizens could join.  They told us that they had orders from Germany to only take citizens.  Thereafter I attended some of the Bund parties, but was not carried as a regular member.

“After this, I joined the D.A.B. in New York City.  I did not attend any meetings, but only joined because I felt that if I paid my dues I would be in good standing with the Party if I ever returned to Germany.  At that time, Fritz Zieklin was the head of the D.A.B.  I continued to pay my dues until I left the United States in March of 1939.

“While working at the American Machine and Tool Manufacturers, I met Alfred Schneider.  Somehow Schneider must have gotten word that the German Labor Front would help pay our expenses back to Germany and would give us a good job when we returned.  Schneider suggested that we go to the German Consulate and contact a man there and make

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arrangements.  At the German Consulate, we talked with a man and he sent us to the Robert C. Meyer Company, which was located on Broadway just across from the Hamburg-American Steamship Line office.  At the Robert C. Meyer Company, we left our money and received a slip of paper which we took to the Hamburg-American Lines and our tickets were already made out.

“After my arrival in Germany, the German Labor Front gave me a job in a branch of the Volkswagenwerk in Braunschweig, Germany.  The Volkswagenwerk is operated by the German Labor Front.  Shortly after I arrived in Braunschweig, Germany, I joined the N.S.D.A.P. (The National Socialist Party).  This was in March of 1939 and I paid my dues regularly.  I was employed with the Volkswagenwerk until I entered the school in connection with coming to America for the purpose of doing sabotage work in April of 1942.

“In January 1942, Walter Kappe, whom I had met in New York City when Kappe was publisher of the Bund newspaper, came to Braunschweig and spoke at a meeting as a representative of the A.O. (Auslands Organization).  Arrangements for this meeting were made by Kurt Laas, who was in charge of the tools in the Volkswagenwerk plant where I worked and the meeting was held for the purpose of bringing together people who had formerly lived in America and Canada.  The meeting was attended by about 35 or 40 men and women.  Kappe was introduced by Laas as being from the Auslands and this was the

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first time I had seen Kappe since I left New York.  Kappe talked for about 20 to 30 minutes during which time he spoke of the war and pointed out that the people from America should be satisfied and that times would be better after the war.  Kappe recognized me and came over after the meeting to shake hands with everybody.  I talked to Kappe about my family and about old times in America.  Richard Querin was also present at this meeting and heard Kappe speak.

“About a month or two after this meeting, Kurt Laas came to my home one Sunday and asked if I would like to go back to America and do something for Germany.  He told me that Walter Kappe had given him my name as being a person who might help Germany.  Laas either told me or gave me to understand definitely that the work I was to do in America was sabotage.

“After I talked with Laas was the first time I had talked with Richard Querin, now known to me as Dick Quintas as set out in my original statement.

“I received the typed unsigned letter mentioned in my original statement and took it to the personnel officer at the factory, whose name is Prelle and then reported to Quince Gut Farm on or about April 1, 1942.  Quince Gut Farm is located near Berlin and the nearest railway station is Brandenburg.  I came from Braunschweig to Brandenburg by train.  I had been instructed to take a streetcar from the railway station and to catch a streetcar that makes connection with the Quince Lake bus.  After having ridden the street car to the end of the line and while waiting for the bus, Richard Querin

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got off the street car and he and I rode the Quince Lake bus to Quince Gut Farm together.

“After getting off the Quince Lake bus, it is necessary to walk about 15 minutes before arriving at Quince Gut Farm.  I believe this Farm is located about one hour’s walk from Brandenburg station.  The Quince Gut Farm is located on the edge of Quince Lake.  This farm was previously owned by a Jewish fellow who operated as a shoe manufacturer in Germany.  The farm was surrounded by a stone and wire fence and we entered through an iron gate.  It had the appearance of an ordinary well kept farm.  After having passed through the gate, we drove up a driveway about a half a city block long and arrived at the main farm house.

“When we walked up to the house, we were met by Walter Kappe mentioned above and the caretaker of the farm whose name I do not recall and they showed Quintas and I our room.  We found that only one member of the school which was later organized had preceded us at arriving at Quince Gut Farm and we then met him.  His name was Scotty.

“The main farm house was a two story building with a cellar.  The house probably had about twelve rooms and the caretaker and his family occupied about half the house and the personnel of the school, including Kappe and instructors occupied the other half of the house.  In about the middle of the house was a living room and dining room where we took our meals, read books and talked.  The members of my group had a room

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at the front of the main farm house and as the sun came up on that side of the building, I believe this was the east side of the farm.  Immediately south of the main farm house and only a few steps away from there, there was located a small farm house which was a one story building and which was occupied by some farmers working on the farm.  About fifty feet south and possibly a little southeast of the small farm house there was a hot house in which greens and flowers and other vegetables were growing.  About 50 or 60 feet east of the hot house there was a two story building.  The second floor of this building was used as a class room and laboratory; the first floor was a garage and store room.  About 70 feet east of this class room and laboratory there was another farm house.  This was probably the barn as I heard cows and pigs, but I did not visit this place at any time.

“About 60 or 70 feet southwest of the laboratory and about the same distance southeast of the hot house, there was gymnasium; this was a two story building.  On the second floor of the building, there was a room where a number of bicycles were stored and another vacant room.  On the ground floor, there was located a gymnasium where we did sporting with handle bars and took exercises.  Southwest of the hot house, there was a testing ground and rifle range about 1000 feet in diameter where explosives and incendiaries were tested during the course we took.  There was also

797

a rifle range on this testing ground, but no one used the rifle range while we were receiving our training at the Quince Gut Farm.

“West of the main building, there was a small garden and a walk leading to Quince Lake, which was about 15 or 20 steps west of and behind the main building.  About 25 or 30 yards north of the main building, there was a pistol range.  We did not use this pistol range for training purposes but we fired on the range once or twice while the Doctors were using the range.  North of the pistol range and in the same general vicinity was a lawn which we used for playing soccer and other sports.  We took our morning setting up exercises on this field.  All of the buildings located on this farm were built of stone.

“As above mentioned, the first class member that I met after arriving at Quince Gut Farm was the individual known to me as Scotty and whose correct name I did not learn.  Scotty remained in the class for about 8 days, but was not liked by the other members of the class and was dropped.  Scotty was about 36 to 38 years of age, about 5’5’’ tall, weighed about 140 pounds, had light blond hair combed straight back, was single and his conversation indicated he was very fond of the women.  His face was wrinkled and his complexion was light.  His general appearance was Scottish.  His conversation indicated that while he was in the United States, he traveled and sold [ ]ies.

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He did not indicate what part of the United States he was in, but I do not believe he was in New York and his conversation generally indicated he was probably in the middle western part of the United States.  From his conversation, I believe he returned to Germany from the United States in about 1938 or 1939.  He had been working Hamburg, Germany, was an office worker and bookkeeper.

“I cannot recall the exact date that I arrived at Quince Gut Farm for this school, but I believe it was around the first of April 1942.  All of the members of the class, who will be hereinafter mentioned, arrived at the Quince Gut Farm the same day I did, except Ernst Zuber who arrived the second day.  Ernst Zuber was a soldier and he was called out of the army to attend this school.  I believe he was a private and was assigned to the food dispensary in the army.  I do not believe he was on the front, but believe he was located in Germany when he was called to Germany.  He was quiet and did not have much to say.  He was about 36 to 38 years of age, about 5’5’’ tall, weighed 135 to 140 pounds, had blond hair and lived in Germany.  He did not mention the specific location, but from the German he spoke, I believe he was from the vicinity of the Rhineland.  Zuber did not speak good English and I do not know how long he was in the United States.  I believe he returned to Germany from the Unites States in about 1937 or 1938.  From his conversation, I believe he lived in Brooklyn, N.Y.

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while he was in the United States.  Zuber was single.  He indicated that he belonged to the German-American Bund in Ridgewood, Brooklyn, N. Y.

“Another one of the class members who reported the same day I did was known to me as Jerry Swensen.  I don’t think this was his correct name and I do not recall having heard him called by any other name.  He has the general appearance of a big Swede, but he is actually a German.  Swensen went through the entire school and was supposed to come to the United States with my group.  He was to be the fifth man in this group.  He went to Paris, France and to Lorient, France, but he contracted a venereal disease and it was necessary for him to return to Paris and enter the hospital and he did not come to the United States on this trip.  I believe, however, that he will come to the United States in the next group.  Swensen is about 30 years of age, about 6’ tall or possibly over 6’ and his hair is dark blond.  He has a light complexion and he is a husky, muscular, strong individual.  He weighs about 180 pounds.  He was single and I believe that his home was in the lower Rhineland.  He at one time told me the name of the town in the lower Rhineland from which he came, but I cannot recall the name of the town.  He indicated he was in The United States for about 15 years and said that he traveled all over the United States as a farmer, hunter, trapper and fisher.  He also mentioned that he had been in Canada as a hunter, trapper and fisher.  He talked

800

freely about his experiences in the United States and mentioned several states that he had been in.  He said that he had never been in New York.  Swensen said he had never been in any Germany organizations in the United States and never associated with Germans in the United States or Canada.  I do not know what his occupation was in Germany.  When he left us in Lorient, France, he told us that he would probably come over to the United States later and that he would see us.

“In addition to the above three members who did not come to the United States, there were two groups of four attending this school and we were designated to come to the United States.  The group in which I was assigned included George John Dasch alias Davis, who was the leader of my group; Peter Burger; Richard ‘Dick’ Querin also known as Quintas and myself.

“George John Dasch was from Bavaria, Germany.  He formerly resided in the United States.  Dasch was a salesman in the United States.  He spoke very good English and I believe he was in the United States for a number of years.  He indicated he was familiar with the English spoken in the southern part of the United States and that he was very familiar with New York and the vicinity.  I believe he returned to Germany from the United States about 1937 or 1938, but it is possible that he returned later.  Dasch is about 38 years old, 5’8’’ tall, weighs about 150 pounds, has black hair which is beginning to turn gray, has a medium complexion and is of a slender build.  He

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dresses well and has a handsome sporty appearance.  He is married and he at one time told me that his wife attempted to return to Germany and was interned in Bermuda.  Dasch was appointed leader of our group in the United States by Walter Kappe.  Dasch seemed to be quite an intelligent man and was given the instructions for our group.

“The second member of my group was Peter Burger.  Burger’s home is in Wurzburg, a south German town and he told me that his wife lives there with his parents.  He also told me that he was a reporter or a writer for some kind of paper in Germany.  He at one time mentioned that he had had some trouble with a Party member in Germany, but he did not go into details.  I do not know how long he stayed in the United States, nor when he returned to Germany, but he spoke English slowly and clearly with an accent.  He at one time said he had worked in a Catholic Monastery in the United States, the location of which I do not know.  He also said he worked as a machinist in Chicago.  He was not familiar with New York.  I believe he was living in Berlin in an apartment with his wife just before he entered the school.  Burger is about 35 to 36 years of age, 5’6’’ tall, weighs about 140 pounds and has dark hair.  He is full faced and dresses nicely.

“Richard Querin also known to me as Dick Quintas was the fourth member of our group.  He was employed in the Volkswagenwerk at Braunschweig,

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Germany with me and had returned from the United States to Germany in 1939 about the same time that I did.  He speaks English with a slight accent and he has told me that he lived in the United States about 12 or 13 years and he worked in New York as a painter and also worked in Chicago.  He was a member of the German-American Bund in New York for a short time and indicated he was not active.  He was a member of the N.S.D.A.P. in Braunschweig.  He worked as a machinist in Volkswagenwerk.  He is about 35 to 36 years old, weighs about 165 pounds, has gray hair turning white and is of a slender build.  He has a wife and one child in Braunschweig, Germany.

“The second group of four who later left for the United States consisted of Eddie Kelly, group leader; Herman Neubauer; Herbert Haul and Billy Thomas.

“I am not sure that Eddie Kelly is the correct name of the group leader, but it is the only name I know him under.  Kelly is 34 to 35 years old, 5’5’’-6’’ tall, weighs about 150 pounds and has dark blond hair which he combs back and parts on the left side.  He has an American hair cut and a light complexion and speaks good English.  He dresses well and is married.  I am not sure, but from conversation of the groups, I got the impression that his wife is in New York City.  His German home is in Weisbaden, Germany.  He spoke good English with a slight accent and I judge he had been in the United States for about

803

fifteen years.  I think he had been in the restaurant business in Chicago and in New York City.  Walter Kappe appointed his as the leader of the second group.  He was a member of the N.S.D.A.P. in Germany and I believe he is a good German.

804

“The second member of Kelly’s group was Herman Neubauer.  Neubauer is a cook by profession and he indicated that he worked in a restaurant in Florida.  Before he entered the school, he worked in Faehrhaus on Alster Lake near Hamburg, Germany.  He indicated he spent most of his time in America in Chicago and lived there for some time and where he was a member of the German-American Bund.  I believe he returned to Germany from the United States in about 1938 or 1939.  He is married and his wife is now in Hamburg, Germany with his parents. His wife is from the United States.  I believe Neubauer’s wife is an American girl as she spoke very good English.  Neubauer himself spoke English with a strong accent.  Neubauer is about 34 years old, 5’ 8’’-9’’ tall, weighs 165 to 170 pounds, has dark brown hair and has a small soar on one side of his face near the temple.  His build is muscular and husky.  He is a neat dresser.  He said he formerly wore a mustache, but was clean shaven when I last saw him.

“The third member of Kelly’s group was Herbert or Herbie Hauk.  He was born in Stetten near Danzig, Germany.  He said that he came to the United States when he was 5 or 6 years old and attended school in the United States.  He told me he is a citizen of the United States and that he lived in Chicago.  He is an optician by profession and work at this in Chicago.  I believe he had just returned to Germany from the United States when this class was formed or that he had been there for a short time.  He said that he returned from the United States to Germany by way of Mexico and Japan and was able to run the block-

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ade and landed somewhere in France.  He told me he had received a decoration from the German Government for having run the blockade.  I don’t know what type of decoration he received as he said he left it at home.  Hauk is about 28 to 30 years old, about 5’8’’ tall, weighs about 170 pounds, has dark hair which he combs straight back, medium complexion and is good looking.  He spoke English without accent, but did sometimes mix German words with his English and when speaking German, he sometimes mixed English words with his German.  He is single and is of muscular, stocky build.

“The fourth member of Kelly’s group was known to me as Bill or Billy Thomas.  Thomas formerly lived in Berlin, Germany and had lived in Chicago and New York City in the United States.  I have heard him mention Ridgewood and Brooklyn, N. Y.  He is single and speaks English with a German accent.  He is about 5’6’’ tall, weighs about 150 pounds, has dark hair, dark complexion and is of medium build.  He indicated that he left the United States in about 1937 or 1938, but I do not know how long he had lived in this country.  I associated with Thomas very little and he was with Kelly most of the time.

“There were four individuals in this class who did not speak English and who did not associate with the groups who were to come to the United States.  They had separate rooms in the farm house and I do not believe that they were coming to the United States as they did not speak or understand English.  One of these individuals was known to me as Dr. Mueller; the second was known to me as

806

Dr. Willowchevsky and the two individuals’ names I do not remember.

“There was another individual who was teaching gymnastics at the school and who was supposed to receive the training and come to the United States.  This individual was known as Bill Dempsey.  When the school was originally formed, Dempsey and I and Ernst Zuber were supposed to come to the United States in one group.  The plans were changed, however, when Dempsey left the school and when I objected to not being sent over with Quintas who was well known to me.

“Bill Dempsey is a trainer of prize fighters and he left the school after about one week and said that he was going to train a fighter whose bout was supposed to be in Stuttgart.  I am not sure, but I believe the fighter that Dempsey was to train was a middle weight.  Dempsey was supposed to be in charge of another group.  Dempsey said that he had been in the United States and had lived in New York during the first World War.  While in New York, he was a trainer of prize fighters and mentioned having given them massages and rub-downs.  He appeared to be familiar with New York fighters and discussed them at length.  I do not know when Dempsey returned to Germany from the United States, but I have heard him say he was in Germany when Hitler came into power.  When Dempsey left the school, he said ‘I’ll see you boys over there’.  While he was at the school, he talked of starting a paint shop in New York or vicinity and indicated that this was to be a front for his activities in behalf of

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Germany.  Dempsey was our physical instructor before he left the school and after he left Dr. Schulz took these duties over.

“Dempsey is about 45 years of age, 5’ 8’’-9’’ tall, weighs about 165 pounds, had brown hair, was of medium complexion and his skin was somewhat wrinkled from age.  He was well built, broad shouldered, husky and muscular.  He spoke very good English and from this I believe he was in the United States for some years.  I am not sure, but got the impression that Dempsey was single.  Dempsey had some teeth missing and I believe they were uppers.  As best I remember, he also had a lower tooth which was gold or gold crowned which was noticeable when he talked.

“The instructors and heads of the school, other than Bill Dempsey, were Walter Kappe, Dr. Koenig and Dr. Schulz.  There was another man known to me as Reinhold Bart.  Bart seemed to be the bookkeeper for Kappe and he addressed the class on one occasion.  Dr. Schulz and Dr. Koenig were each about 28 to 30 years old.  Schulz was about 5’5’’ tall weighed 145 to 150 pounds, had dark hair and he spoke no English.  Dr. Koenig was about 5’9’’ tall, weighed about 145 pounds, had thin blond hair.  He did not speak English to us, but indicated he spoke a little English.  Both the Doctors live in Berlin, Germany. 

“Walter Kappe appeared to be the head of the school and was in complete charge of our organization and running of the school.  He was not at the school during the entire time, but always visited the school on week-ends.  He associated with the men in the class and addressed

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the class on a few occasions.  Kappe is about 38 to 40 years of age, 5’8’’ tall, weighs about 200 pounds and is a very fat man with a big belly.  He has blond hair which is very thin. His complexion is light and he has a fat face.  Kappe is married and I believe his wife is in Stuttgart.  Kappe has two or three children who are now in Stuttgart.  I know that Kappe is well known in the United States.

“Reinhold Bart was from Stuttgart, Germany.  He speaks English with an accent.  He is apparently well educated and from his lecture I believe he has some technical knowledge.  He wore rimless eyeglasses and was the bookkeeper and assistant to Walter Kappe.  He is about 32 to 35 years of age, about 5’4’’-6’’ tall, weighs 130-135 pounds, is of slender build and has a dark full head of hair.  He is clean shaven and has the appearance of a small, weak man.  He is very quiet.  I asked him one time whether he intended to come to the United States and he said ‘Well, its possible that I come too.’

“Walter Kappe, opened the school by addressing the group named in the foregoing.  Kappe explained to us that the German soldiers on the Front were doing their duty and that it was necessary to stop production in the United States.  He stated that this was as important as any big battle that would be fought.  He introduced Dr. Schulz and Dr. Koenig, who were to be the instructors and said they would instruct us in sabotage work we were to do in the United States.  Kappe also said each one of us who was coming to the United States should make up a

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story as to our personal history background and that we should rehearse these stories carefully and should be instructed and closely examined as to these stories by the Group Leaders.  Kappe also instructed us to adopt an assumed name and to use these names at all times in order that we might become accustomed to them.  The name I adopted and used was Henry Kaynar.  Bill Dempsey suggested that name for me.  This name was adopted because it was a Polish name and I was to tell anyone who arrested me that I was born in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, that my father was a coal miner and my mother died when I was 15 years of age; I then went to New York and worked in different Polish restaurants and after that I worked on farms.  I was to say I have never seen my father after I left Wilkes-Barre.  After this story was framed, George Dasch went over with me on several different occasions and Kappe also went over it with me on several different occasions.  Each member of the class had a similar story as to his background and each one of them was drilled in this story and was cross-examined as to his story on numerous occasions by Dasch, Kelly and Kappe.

“The school at Quince Gut Farm lasted about three and one half weeks.  We were in school five or six days of each week.  The teaching at the school consisted chiefly of working with explosives, incendiaries and their use, and sabotage, the training on our personal history stories, and brushing up on our English.  We also conducted numerous experiments and used the explosives and incendiaries on a test ground, which I have already

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located.  Each person had to make up some of the various formulas that they gave us and had to work with the TNT we prepared.  The school and training consisted chiefly of making and using explosives and incendiaries, and methods of igniting incendiaries and setting off the explosives.

“The first thing we studied was incendiaries and we spent about one week learning formulas and making incendiaries.  The incendiaries that we made and used were divided into two classes, the first being the light-burning incendiaries, and the second being the hard-burning incendiaries.  During the school, the groups of students worked and studied together in the classroom part of the time, but during part of the time one group would be in the class-room learning formulas and receiving instructions, and the other group would be in the Laboratory preparing incendiaries and explosives.

“I am unable to recall definitely the formulas we were furnished for making the incendiaries, but have no reason to withhold them, and have attempted to supply them to the best of my recollection.

“There were three different formulas furnished for the light-burning incendiaries.  I recall one of these three formulas was:

“One hundred parts of Saltpeter and ninety parts of sulphur.  This was placed in a tin or paper container and was ignited by either of the ignition formulas, which I will give later.  Another of the light-burning incendiaries formula,

811

consisted of the following:

“Two hundred parts of Saltpeter, and one hundred parts of sawdust.  In mixing this formula, the sawdust was dampened, and the saltpeter was then mixed with the sawdust.  It was then permitted to dry and was ignited by either of the ignition formulas, hereinafter set out.

“I do not recall the third light-burning formula.

**************

“There were three formulas furnished us for hard-burning incendiaries.  As I recall the first of those formulas was:

One hundred parts of Aluminum powder, and three hundred or three hundred twenty parts of Caputmortum.  These ingredients were powdered and mixed, and ignited by either of the ignition formulas.

“Another hard-burning formula, furnished us, consisted of the following:

Hammerscale and Aluminum powder.  I believe the portions were three hundred parts of Hammerscale, and one hundred parts of aluminum powder.

“The third formula for hard-burning incendiaries, I believe, consisted of:

“One hundred ninety parts of Plaster of Paris, and one hundred parts of Aluminum powder.

**************

“We were furnished with two formulas for igniting the light and hard burning incendiaries.  The first of these formulas consisted of:

812

“One part of sugared powder to three parts of potassium chlorate.  This could be set off by one drop of sulphuric acid, by a fuse, or other timing device.  We tested this ignition system and found it to be too fast in most instances.

“The other ignition formula that we were given, consisted of the following:

“Three parts of Potassium Permanganate, two parts of flour and one part of sulphur.  I am not sure that I have the correct proportions, in that the formula could be 3-2-1, or 3-1-2.  This ignition formula was also tested and was found more satisfactory for igniting both the light and hard-burning incendiaries.  About a soup spoonful of this ignition material is sufficient to set off the fire.

“We were furnished a formula for making a substitute for TNT, but I do not at this time recall of what the formula consisted.

“We were also furnished a formula for making our own detonator caps and I recall that two of the things to be used in making these caps were Urotropin, and 30 per cent of hydrogen peroxide, but I do not recall the other thing that was mixed with these two to make the detonator caps.  They did not stress this formula much as they told us they would furnish us with all the caps that they would need.

“They also gave us the formula for making the fuse, which formula consisted of:

“Fifty parts of Potassium Permanganate, and fifty parts of Plaster of Paris.

*****

813

“The third week of the school was used in making and experimenting with timing devices for setting off incendiaries and explosives.  One of these timing devices was an ordinary movement of an eight-day clock.  This was used by attaching a piece of electric wire on the main spring and when the main spring runs down, the spring will expand and make connection with the wire, thereby closing the circuit and causing the explosion.  The clock was also used for a second timing device, by the use of a clock with a celluloid face in which was bored three small holes.  These holes were for the purpose of holding the wire tight, and an eighth of an inch of wire was extended through one of the holes so that it did not touch the dial of the clock.  The other wire was attached to the clock itself.  The device could be set for one hour or for any time up to twelve hours, by removing either the minute or hour hand.  They advised us, however, not to set the device for more than 11 hours.

“They also furnished us with specially made timing clocks.  These clocks were constructed with a hammer or lever which could be set for the required length of time, similar to the alarm clock.  At the set time, the hammer would be released and strike the detonator cap attached to the device.

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“We were also taught how to prepare or make a timing device by using an ordinary tin can or other type of container, with a small hole in the bottom, the size of the hole depending on the length of time desired.  This container was filled with water.  On the top of the can was a wire once twisted around the can, then going through the middle, leaving a circle in the middle of the can.  This was for the purpose of having a bearing for the wire which extended through the hole which had a piece of cork on the bottom, or piece of wood, for the purpose of floating.  As the water leaked out of the can, the float sinks with the water level and the wire at the top of the cork makes contact with the wire at the top of the can, when the leaking water permits it to, and an electrical circuit is caused, thereby setting off the explosive.

“They also taught us how to use a key ring for a timing device:  A piece of tape is wrapped around one section of the key ring and one of the electrical posts is attached by wire to that portion of the key ring, which is wrapped with tape.  The other electrical post is attached to the other side of the key ring.  A piece of lump sugar or rock candy is then placed between the two sections of the key ring after it is sprung apart.  The key ring is then placed in water and the lump sugar or rock candy melts.  After it melts, the key ring makes contact with the wire which is tied to the tape, thereby completing an electrical circuit and setting off the device.

815

“They further explained to us another timing device which was made by filling a bottle or test tube, part full of dried peas, a cork with at screw was placed in the test tube directly over the peas.  One of the electrical posts was attached to the screw in this cork.  Another cork with a screw in it was placed in the test tube, above the first cork.  The screw in this end was attached to the other electrical post and the heads of the two screws were placed so that they could make contact.  The peas were wet and as they expanded, they forced the cork above them up, and eventually the two corks came together and an electrical circuit was caused.

“They also told us how to make a chemical timing device by the use of sulphuric acid, powdered sugar and Potassium Chlorate.  The sulphuric acid is placed in a bottle and the bottle is sealed with a paper cap.  The powdered sugar and Potassium Chlorate are put in a position where the sulphuric acid would drop on them, eating away the paper cap, thereby starting a very quick hot fire.

“The last course we had in school was instruction in the use of secret writing.  The first method of secret writing was the use of any laxative which would turn blue in water.  I believe this could be used on cloth or paper.  This was to be developed by the use of water strained through cigarette ashes.  They also told us something about the use of glycerin, but I am not sure whether this was for reproducing or the actual

816

writing.  They particularly gave us the name of ‘Ex-Lax’, as one of the laxatives to be used in secret writings.  They further told us aspirin could be used for secret writing on paper.  This was also developed by the ashes and water.

“During one of the lectures, they told us that secret writing could be done by placing a dry sheet of paper over a wet sheet, and writing on the dry sheet thereby leaving an indentation on the wet sheet of paper.  All of this writing was to be done with a toothpick with cotton wrapped around one end.

“They told us to place the secret writing on the back of what appeared to be an ordinary business letter.

“After finishing our courses at the school, we were given a week’s vacation and allowed to go home, but were instructed to report to Berlin in about a week.  While in Berlin waiting to go to France, and then to the United States, we visited two factories.  The first factory we visited was in Bitterfeld, and the second was at Dessau.  I believe both of these factories belonged to the Leuna Werke, and they were both Aluminum plants.  In this connection, I wish to state, I believe that our main sabotage objective in this country was the main aluminum plants, and they told us of a large aluminum plant which was just being completed in the State of Tennessee, in the United States, and advised us to sabotage this plant if possible by destroying transformers or the electric

817

wire towers.  They also explained to us that by destroying the large presses in the aluminum plants we could slow down production.

“At the Dessau factory they took us out and showed us the big transformers and suggested that if they could be destroyed, production would be stopped for some time.  We went over the entire factory at Bitterfeld.  They told us that if we were successful in stopping the production of aluminum, they would consider that we had done a good job, and it would be all right with them if we discontinued our sabotage work.

“During the course of instruction, we had received some instructions and suggestions as to the manner in which the power line towers might be blown up by TNT.  Walter Kappe had a list of all the Aluminum Plants in the Unites States, and they were all mentioned during his talk to us, but they mentioned the new plant in Tennessee, especially.

“On the first day we went through the aluminum plant, Dr. Schulz, Dr. Koenig, Walter Kappe and Reinhold Barth were present and made the tour with us, and made the comments with reference to the sabotage possibilities with the plants presented.  On the second day, Dr. Koenig and Walter Kappe had left and only Dr. Schulz and Reinhold Barth accompanied us.

“I might state that about the second day of the school, Walter Kappe called me aside and asked me whether or not I had any training yet, or knowledge of radio.  I told him that radio had been my hobby at

818

one time but that I had not worked with it in several years.  He asked me whether or not I would be interested in doing radio transmitting the United States.  I explained to him I had never done any transmitting and that my experience had been limited to building a small receiver and repairing radio receivers. He asked me whether or not I would be interested in taking lessons in radio transmitting and I refused.  Quintas told me he was also asked whether or not he would like to receive instructions in radio transmitting and he told me also that he refused.

“I have failed to mention that during the course of instruction, we were told how to sabotage railroads and freight cars.  One of the devices to be used in this connection was an electrical device which was placed on the track and the circuit was closed by the train passing over the track and the explosion followed.  They told us before using this, we should be sure that this device was used only on freight cars.  In this connection we were cautioned throughout the school, to be very careful and not to cause the death of civilians.

“In connection with railroad sabotage, they also told us how freight cars might be sabotaged by placing sand or emery dust, or other abrasives, in the bearings.  While we were in Berlin, we visited a railroad yard and Reinhold Barth showed us the bearings into which we would throw the sand or abrasives.  He also showed us the locomotives and explained how the vital parts of the locomotive might be sabotaged.  He explained that

819

emery or other abrasives could be put in the driver arms of the locomotive and cause considerable damage.  He also got on the locomotive and showed us the oil filter, and said we could put emery dust or an abrasive in this oil filter and it would damage the locomotive.

“While we were conducting experiments on the proving ground, during this school, they attached a load of TNT to a railroad rail, which was fastened down, and blew a part of the rail away in this manner.  The material used in this experiment was made in the Laboratory from the formula which they had given us and was contained in a tin can or bottle.

“After we had finished looking over the aluminum plants in Dessau, Bitterfeld, Germany, we were taken to a number of water locks located in the waterways around Berlin.  Kappe and another man, whose name they did not give us but who appeared to be an experts on locks, explained the various parts of the locks to us and showed us how it would be possible to best sabotage water locks.  They told us it was almost impossible to destroy a whole lock, but that we could jam the doors by damaging the hinges thereby preventing the locks from opening.  They explained that it was difficult to do this since you do not know how deep the hinges are and whether you could get near enough to the locks.  One of the means of damaging these hinges was by the use of explosives.  While talking to us on

820

the damaging of locks, Kappe mentioned to us the locks in the Ohio River in the United States.  He told us that these locks controlled a very important waterway, but they were only in operation for a short time of the year in the summer time.  The man who appeared to be the expert on locks described the various types of locks to us and said the type of lock which elevates upwards was a difficult lock and it would be almost impossible to damage.  He also said the locks which open like doors could be damaged by jarring the hinges. The name of the Panama Canal was brought up, but they told us to stay away from this lock as it was carefully guarded.

“During the course of instructions, we were advised not to attempt to destroy any large dams or other large concrete structures as this was practically impossible for a small group of men and would require the services of an entire army.

“While we were in Berlin, Germany, we received fake Social Security and Selective Service registration cards.  These cards were delivered by Walter Kappe to George Dasch.  Dasch filled out the registration and Social Security cards before he delivered them to me and the other members of the group. When I was arrested in New York City on June 20, 1942, I had in my possession the fake registration and Social Security cards, which were delivered to me by George Dasch in Berlin, Germany and they were turned over to Agents of the F.B.I.

821

“The Social Security card given to me by Dasch was filled out in the name of Henry Kajnar and bore number 346-01-5692.  It bears the date of 12/27/36.  This card has been shown to me and I have identified it by placing my initials on the back.

“The Selective Service card furnished to me was made in the name of Henry Kayner, 386 E. 79th Street, N.Y.C., N.Y.  It bears the date of registration 10/16/40, 21st Precinct, 17th Ward, N.Y.C., N.Y.  The name of the registrar is shown as Jane Moscovitz.  Before I left Berlin, I placed my signature on this card as Henry Kaynar.  My complete description was also placed on this card by Dasch.  This Selective Service card has been shown to me and I have identified it by placing my initials on the back.

“At the time the above cards were given to us in Berlin, they told us that we should get rid of these cards as soon as possible in the United States and to obtain real cards over here. They told us to register under Selective Service in the United States if it could be done.  They did not explain how, but Dasch was to find out a way to get proper identification papers.  In connection with the Social Security cards, they told us we might obtain a position for the purpose of getting a card, but told us domestic jobs in the United States did not require Social Security cards.

“While we were in school at Quince Gut Farm, Kappe told us that the leaders of each group would be furnished with a large sum of money.  He explained that this money

822

was to be used in buying a farm or paint shop or some other legitimate business to cover up our activities.  They also told us that each man would be furnished with about $4,000, in a money belt and with some smaller money to be placed on our person and to be used for our expenses until we got to this country where we could open our money belt.  The money given to each man was to be used for his living expenses and if any additional money was needed, Dasch was to secure it.  They told us to lay low and become accustomed to American life again even if it required six months and we were to use the $4,000 for living expenses.

“While we were in Berlin in the apartment house, Dasch received the money from Walter Kappe and he had charge of all the money except some spending money which we had in our pockets until the day before the submarine landed us on the coast of Long Island, N.Y.  In this connection, Kappe and Dasch told me to stay around the City of New York where I knew my way around.  I do not know where the others were to stay and I believe this was up to George Dasch.  I asked about this and told them I felt safe around New York.

“Kappe told us the money we would have would be in $50 bills.  We asked whether or not the money was fake or good and he told us it was good money, but that we should be careful in spending it as the numbers might be known in this country.  He said this money was taken to Germany through German Banks.  Kappe did not tell the members of the group just how much

823

money he was giving Dasch in the big sum.  In telling us to spend this money, they told us not to change it in a bank and they also told us not to deposit it.  They told us that we should have a small bank account, but that we should not use this money in opening the bank account.  Walter Kappe gave us all of these instructions with reference to the money.

“Kelly’s group left the submarine at Lorient, France the day before we left and they received their money belt while at Lorient, France.  They also received some money and small bills and found some gold certificates among this money.  This made the whole group sore and we asked Kappe why the gold certificates had been put in with the rest of the money as all gold certificates in the United States had been taken up and Kappe said ‘that’s nothing boys, don’t worry about a little thing like that’; but this instant made the entire group dissatisfied with the careless manner and attitude of Kappe with reference to our personal safety.”

 

The President.  Will you please stop a moment?  How long do you think it will take to reach the remainder of that; how many pages are there left?

The Witness.  I am on the 18th page and the statement is 28 pages long.  Approximately nine more pages.

The President.  I think we will adjourn now until 1:30.  Is that satisfactory to both sides?

Colonel Royall.  May it please the Commission, that is entirely satisfactory to the defendants.  We would like, however, if it is not inconvenient, not to run quite so late in

824

the afternoon, because it does not give us much chance after that.

The President.  Yes, we will be conscious of that.  We will adjourn until 1:30.

The Commission is in recess.

(At 12:30 o’clock p.m., a recess was taken until 1:30 o’clock p.m. of the same day.)

825

AFTER RECESS

 

(The Commission reconvened at 1:30 o’clock p.m., upon the expiration of the recess.)

 

The President.  The Commission is open.

Colonel Munson.  May it please the Commission:  The personnel of the Commission, the personnel of the defense, all eight of the accused, and the reporter are present.

The Attorney General and the Judge Advocate General, the trial judge advocates, request that they be excused with their assistants, Mr. Cox and Mr. Rowe, for a few moments at the opening of this session and that we proceed.

The witness is reminded that he is still under oath.

Colonel Dowell.  I wish to state that Major Stone of the defense is temporarily absent.

The President.  You may proceed with the reading of the statement.

CHARLES H. STANLEY,

the witness on the stand at the time of the noon recess, resumed the stand and, having been previously duly sworn, testified further as follows:

(The reading of the statement of the defendant Heinck was resumed as follows:)

The Witness:

“Kappe took the gold certificates from the men in the first group and told us to look our money over to see that there were no gold certificates among the bills and if we found any, we were to destroy them.  Dasch examined our smaller denomination bills that we

826

were to receive and found some gold certificates in this money before we left Lorient, France.

“While we were in Berlin waiting to leave for America, they told us that we would bring explosives with us to America.  At that time they brought into the apartment house where we were staying four sealed wooden boxes containing explosives and incendiary bombs.  Dr. Schulz and Dr. Koenig explained each explosive and incendiary device contained in these boxes.  The boxes were not opened, but Dr. Schulz had similar devices.  They also told us that inside the wooden box was a sealed tin container for the purpose of making the box waterproof.  They told us this tin was very thin sheet metal and could be opened by a can opener or a knife.  Dr. Schulz told us these boxes contained the following explosives and incendiary devices:”

(At this time Major Stone of defense council entered the room.)

“1 - Several square blocks of TNT.  These blocks were light tan or cream color.  Dr. Schulz had a small piece of TNT when he was explaining it and told us that we could cut the large pieces in the box with a saw or knife and it would not explode.  We had not in our training used any ready made TNT but only experimented with the substitute which would do the same job.

“2 - Piece of TNT which was painted or prepared with some sort of plastic to resemble an ordinary lump of coal.  I am not sure how many of these were in the box, but it was my understanding there were only one

827

piece.  They told us how to make these lumps of coal by the use of TNT and plastic wood.  They told us we should use black plastic wood and if we could not get this, we could mix it with black paint so it would resemble coal.  Dr. Schulz told us that this was an example of a perfect work and said this was made up in their shop.  We did not make any of this type of explosive at the school.  He said that the artificial lump of coal would melt about half away before it exploded and said it could be used on a railroad locomotive or any coal burning furnace.  Dr. Schulz mentioned this could be used in any kind of steam boiler and that it would crack and ruin the boiler.  He said it would not tear the boiler apart.  At the time they were explaining this to us, one of the members of the class asked if this lump of coal would be exploded by one of the coal cutting or cracking machines and Dr. Schulz told me it would not but would kill the effect of the explosion.  I forgot to mention while I was outlining what we were taught in school that we also received instructions with regard to this form of TNT and its possible uses.

“3 - Fuses.  One type of fuse was the TNT fuse which was approximately ¼ of an inch in diameter, that is, the rubber hose in which the fuse was concealed was ¼ of an inch in diameter.  The TNT core of this rubber tube is 1/8 of an inch in diameter.  This TNT fuse is used in exploding more than one piece of dynamite simultaneously.  The pieces of dynamite

828

which were prepared for simultaneous explosion were connected with one another by this TNT fuse.  One of the sticks of dynamite is loaded with a regular dynamite cap and fuse and when it explodes, the TNT fuse explodes and causes almost simultaneous explosion on various sticks of dynamite.  They told us this was the best method of sabotaging power line towers if the legs of the power line towers were over about four feet apart.  If they were over four feet apart, the separate charges should be placed on the separate legs and connected with this TNT fuse.  If they were closer than four feet to one another, each leg should be charged with one load of dynamite in which a cap was placed near and facing the stick of dynamite which was to be exploded first with a fuse and the pressure from the first explosion would, therefore, explode the other charges.

“The second type of fuse contained in the box is the ordinary dynamite fuse.

“4 - Detonating caps.  Dr. Schulz and Dr. Koenig also told us that we had a supply of detonating caps in the boxes and that we would probably not have to buy or make any detonating caps.  They explained that there were three types of caps and that they were sealed up in wooden blocks.  They could be removed from the wooden blocks by cutting a portion of the wood which had been glued on and the glued portion could be seen by examining the block carefully.  They told us to be careful and not to drop the detonating caps.  There were three types of caps

829

furnished to us; the first type was the ordinary cap to be used with a fuse in exploding dynamite and TNT.  There were two types of caps to be used with the fourteen day time clock device.  These two types of caps are made so that they screwed on to the fourteen day clock. One of these types is gray and the other brass. One of those types of caps is to be used with explosives.  One of these types of caps has a red ring around the bottom of the cap and this cap is to be used with the incendiaries, the other cap was to be used with the explosives.

“5 - Time clocks.  Dr. Schulz and Dr. Koenig showed us a fourteen day time clock and told us we had ten of these devices in the boxes.  I have already explained how these clocks work but I failed to mention that each clock has a separate key which is used in pushing back the trigger which strikes the detonating cap.  Dr. Schulz or Dr. Koenig told us that this was the best device we had for use in our work and they seemed to be very proud of the construction of this clock.

“6 - Incendiary pencils and fountain pens.  They also told us there were ten incendiary pencils and ten incendiary fountain pens in the boxes.  I have already explained that we received instructions as to how these should be operated, but would like to mention at this time that Dr. Schulz said the incendiary pencils were made in England.  This was developed through a discussion when we mentioned they

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were very nice and wondered why we could not be furnished with more of them.  One of the doctors then said that they were made in England and they could not get any more of them.

“While they were telling us what was in the boxes and explaining their uses to us, they showed us a fuse lighter which was made of paper tubing with the wire sticking out of one end.  When the wire was pulled from the paper tubing, a flash of fire came out the other end of the paper tubing and this could be used in lighting fuses.  I am not sure whether there were any of these fuse lighters in the boxes of material that they furnished us.

“I believe Doctors Koenig and Schulz told us there were ten different items contained in the box and I have attempted to recall and describe each of the items as they explained them to us.

“After Doctors Koenig and Schulz finished explaining to us what the boxes contained and the uses we could make of the materials, the boxes were left in the apartment where they remained until we left Berlin for Paris and Lorient, France.

“Before we left Berlin, we talked about how we would keep the explosives when we arrived in America and Dasch and Kappe agreed that we would bury them in the sand or in the woods at the place where we landed.  We would then buy our farm or other place of business where we could establish a front and keep the explosives without being found and return

831

to the place we had buried them and return to this place after it had been established.

“While we were in Berlin receiving our final instructions, we were taken by Kappe to a public school, one group at a time, for the purpose of receiving our uniforms to be worn on the submarine and on landing in the United States.  The uniform given to us consisted of a pair of khaki pants; a plain slipover khaki jacket without shiny buttons; a ‘ship’ cap with a swastika and a wing on each side of the swastika on the front of the cap; high type heavy black German shoes (Stiefels); gray woolen socks and a black leather belt.  This same type uniform was worn by the crew members on the submarine.  Walter Kappe told us to use this uniform on the trip over to the United States and when we landed on the shores of the United States.  He explained that there were guards on the beach and that if we got caught as we landed we would be prisoners of war if we were wearing a uniform and they told us if someone caught us while landing that we should make some kind of excuse or story, but this story was not explained to us in detail and I did not have such a story clearly in my mind.

“Kappe also instructed us to bring with us one complete set of civilian clothes.  These clothes were our own and were clothing that had been purchased in the United States.  Some of the men did not have a full suit of clothing that had been purchased in the United

832

States and they were supplied by other members of the group who had extra clothing that had been purchased in this country.  I remember that Kelly gave one of the members of his group a suit of clothes and also gave another one of the members a shirt.  I furnished Burger with an undershirt and Dasch furnished one of the members of our group with a pair of trousers.  The only German clothing that I wore was a pair of brown shoes that I had purchased in Germany.  I wore these shoes into New York City and threw them in an trash can later on.

“We were instructed to change from our uniforms to our civilian clothing as soon as we landed on the beach if we had not been caught and they were to be put in the bag in which our civilian clothing was brought to the United States and sent back to the submarine.  The suit of clothes which I selected to wear in the United States was a gray suit which I had purchased at Weber & Heilbroner while I was in the United States before I left in 1938.  This suit has been recovered and is in the property which was recovered in my room and has been identified by me.  I intended to give this suit away.

“One day while we were in Berlin, Walter Kappe and another man who did not give his name, and Reinhold Barth, called us into a room, one at a time and talked with us.  Kappe did the talking.  He explained that while I was gone, he would pay my wife my salary, amounting to 400 Marks a month.  We were

833

cautioned to keep our mouths shut, and not to say anything to anybody about this venture, under any circumstances, Kappe then showed me a paper which I read and signed.  There was a part of the paper at the bottom which was folded up and which Kappe would not permit me to read.  My signature was above that part of the paper that was folded, and Kappe told me there was some signatures on the paper which he could not permit me to see.  This paper appeared to be a contract and provided for the payment of my salary to my wife.  I recall that it mentioned the penalty, in the event we failed to go through with our work, and Kappe impressed on me the penalty was death.  In this connection I might state I do not wish to leave the impression that I was forced to do the work.  I believed that nothing would have been done to me if I had refused, when I was first approached, with reference to this matter.  After this paper was signed we had about two days in Berlin, in which we were free to go and come, and do what we wanted to do.  We were in Berlin about a week altogether and during this time I was living with my sister, Marta Kruger Ringstrasse 49.

“All of our meetings were held in an apartment house, the exact address of which I do not recall.  This apartment house was about a five-minute walk from the Zoo Railroad Terminal.  It was located just one block off Kerfuerstendamm, which is the main street in Berlin.  I believe that the name of the street on

834

which the apartment house was located was Taun Strasse.

“After we had been in Berlin for about a week, Kappe told us to report the next day with all of our things, ready to go to Paris.  The next morning the two groups, who came to the United States, Jerry Swensen and Walter Kappe, left Berlin at about 11:00 A.M. and went by train to Paris, France.  We stayed in Paris, France.  We arrived there the morning after we left Berlin, and stayed all that day and two other full days.  We spent our time in Paris, looking the city over and did not receive any more training.  We stayed at the Mond Hotel, which is located at the Rua de Opera.  We left Paris about 10:00 o’clock one evening and traveled all night, and arrived at Lorient, France.  The next morning, while in Lorient, we stayed in a small hotel, the name and location of which I do not recall. The morning after we arrived in Lorient, Bill Kelly’s group left.  They left us in a hotel and Kappe took them to a submarine base.  I did not know any of the details as to their trip, but some one in the group at one time said that they would probably land in Florida, but he told me not to say anything about this as they were not supposed to tell us anything about their plans.  We understood we would probably sometime see them in the United States.

“The day after Kelly’s group left the hotel, Kappe took us to the pier where our submarine was

835

docked.  The number on the submarine was 202.  During the voyage, we observed that all of the members of the submarine crew had a good luck piece in the form of a porcupine, hanging from their caps.  We asked them what this meant and they told us that their submarine had a picture of a porcupine painted on it and this was their good luck amulet.  During the trip over, the crew gave each of our group, one of the good luck pieces.  At the time, I was arrested, I still had this small tin porcupine.”

(At this point the Attorney General, the Judge Advocate General, Mr. Cox, and Mr. Rowe entered the hearing room.)

“Before we left the hotel at Lorient, France, Jerry Swensen developed a venereal disease and it was necessary for him to return to Paris and enter a hospital.  We bade him goodbye and when we left him, he said he would see us in the United States later on, and it is my opinion that Swensen will probably be in the next group coming to the United States.

“I have outlined the trip to the United States in the submarine in my original statement dated June 21, 1942 and cannot add anything to that part of the statement.  The trip itself was uneventful and we were seasick a lot of the time.  During the voyage, one of the crew members said he had seen a big sail boat, but we did not attack any ship on the way over.

“I have also outlined in my original statement, dated June 21, 1942, the landing from the submarine and the burying of the boxes containing the explosives

836

and incendiaries and the clothing.  I would like to add, however, that at the time we entered the small rubber boat, that Dasch had four or five peculiar matches.  I later asked Quintas, what these matches were to be used for and he told me for secret writing.  I also recall that when we were on the beach, Dasch lost a notebook and Quintas lost a shoe and we attempted to locate the notebook and the shoe, Dasch going back to the beach to the spot where we first landed.

“As outlined in my original statement, we split in Jamaica, and Quintas and I stayed together and Dasch and Burger stayed together.  Before we separated, however, Dasch told us to meet him at 3:00 o’clock on Saturday at a Horn and Hardart Cafeteria.  This Horn & Hardart was located in the same building as Macy’s Department Store.  We made some purchases at Macys before we met Dasch at 3:00 P.M. at the Horn & Hardart Cafeteria.  After we left Horn & Hardarts, we went to Macys again to make some additional purchases. We then went down into a subway station and asked a subway attendant to recommend a hotel to us and he recommended the Martinique Hotal.  We then went to the Martinique, where I registered as Henry Kayner, 49 State Street, Albany, New York.

“Before we left Dasch on Saturday, Quintas made arrangements for us to meet Dasch at the Swiss Chalet at 1:00 o’clock.  On Sunday, Quintas and I went to the Swill Chalet at about 1:00 o’ clock in the afternoon, and waited until after 2:00, but Burger and Dasch did

837

not show up.  We had previously made arrangements to meet in front of Grant’s Tomb at 6:00 P. M., if we failed to meet at the Swiss Chalet, and Quintas and I went to Grant’s Tomb, at 6:00 o’clock, and Burger and Dasch met us there.  I at this time told Dasch that I did not like to carry all of this money around with me and he said he was going to deposit the money, and I asked him to take my money and deposit for me.  Dasch agreed to take my money at that time, but I did not deliver it to him at this time, as I did not have it.

838

“When we left the vicinity of Grant’s Tomb, Quintas and I took the subway form the 125th Street Station and went downtown where we ate and later returned to the Hotel Martinique.

“On Monday, Quintas and I got up about 9:00 o’clock, had breakfast, took a walk and then met Dasch and Burger at the Horn & Hardart Cafeteria, in the Macy building.  I believe we met at 1:00 o’clock or it might have been later in the afternoon.  While we were seated there at the table in the Horn & Hardart Cafeteria, I passed my money belt to Dasch.  I had previously opened up one compartment of the money belt and had taken out between $400 and $500 of the money.  The remainder of the money was in the belt when I gave it to George Dasch on Monday, June 15, 1942.

“Before we met Dasch and Burger at the Horn & Hardart Cafeteria on Monday, June 15, 1942, Quintas and I had secured rooms at the rooming house located at 149 West 76th Street, which rooms we located through an advertisement in a New York newspaper.  I wish to state that there was no particular reason why we obtained a room in this particular vicinity, and before I rented a room, I tried to find one advertised for rent in the Bronx, as I preferred this section.

“I do not recall exactly what I did Tuesday, but I stayed at home Tuesday night.  Burger, Quintas and Dasch went to the Swing Club.  I further wish to state that I did not at any time see George Dasch after I gave him the money belt in Horn & Hardart’s, on Monday, June 15, 1942, and I do not know where George Dasch is.  Quintas

839

and Burger also told me that they do not know where Dasch is.

“Wednesday night, Burger and Quintas and I went to the Swing Club.  Burger did not arrive until about 10:00 o’clock that night and we did not leave until about 3:00 o’clock Thursday morning.

“I didn’t do anything Thursday, except a little sightseeing and Thursday night, I stayed at home.  Burger and Quintas went back to the Swing Club Thursday night and Quintas did not come back to the rooming house on West 76th Street that night.  He later told me he stayed in a room at the Governor Clinton Hotel.  Quintas or Burger had obtained a telephone number from a girl named ‘Frankie’ at the Swing Club and Friday we went to the Governor Clinton Hotel and to Burger’s room and they called this telephone number.  They made arrangements for us to visit this girl and two other girls at an apartment house located at 144 West 86th Street.  We visited these girls on Friday night and stayed there until after 4:00 o’clock in the morning.  I don’t recall the names of any of these girls but the madam of the house was named Anna.

“Saturday morning, June 20, 1942, we got up late and left the rooming house about 11:00 o’clock.  We met Peter Purger at 41st Street and 5th Avenue about 3:00 p.m., visited the Oxford Bar for about 45 minutes and then started home.  I was arrested on Columbus Avenue near 75th Street as I approached my home, on Saturday afternoon of June 20th.

840

[Page missing due to bad scan]

841

“At the time we left the hotel in Lorient to enter the submarine, Kappe went with us into the submarine and talked with the Captain, and we all had a drink together, and Kappe shook hands with us and wished us good luck and told the Captain that Dasch would tell him all about it.

“With further reference to our course at the sabotage school, we were also instructed by either Dr. Schulz or Dr. Koenig that in connection with the blowing up of oil or gasoline tanks that explosives should be used.  Dr. Schulz or Dr. Koenig also told us that the Czechs had done a good sabotage job against Germany by the use of emery dust mixed with wax into a ball and placing this ball in the bearings of locomotives.  As soon as the bearings would get hot, the wax would melt and allow the emery dust to damage the parts.

“Also, in connection with explosives, Kappe told us that if we ran out of explosives, we should attempt to have farmers buy an additional supply for us, or buy them ourselves as farmers.

“During the demonstrations at the school in the use of detonator caps, Dr. Schulz placed a detonator cap in a metal pipe approximately one-half inch in diameter, and, through the use of a fuse, exploded this cap and blew the pipe into a number of pieces.  This was done only to show us how powerful the caps were.  He told us that some of the caps which were being furnished might even explode if they were dropped from a table.

“I have described above the 14 day time clock device,

842

and I forgot to mention that in the boxes which we brought from Germany were some special-made threaded brass tubing to be used for the placing of different types of detonator caps into the time clock.  The reason for this tubing was that we had special caps for this timing device, and if we ran out of these caps or did not have them, by using this brass pipe, ordinary caps would fit and could be used with this timing device.

“I have also mentioned above that there were four members of the sabotage class who were not to come to the United States and who did not speak English.  These men received instructions in the making of the formulas for explosives and incendiaries; and at one time near the end of the school, one of our instructors told one of these men to get up and lecture the class along these lines so that he could get that experience; and I believe from this that this group of four men were receiving training as instructors.

“From the general conversation of Kappe and the instructors at the school and from the fact that we learned that Bill Dempsey and Jerry Swensen are coming to the United States with sabotage groups, I gained the impression that there was to be a series of these schools, and that additional men will be sent to the United States in submarines.

“On the final day of our training at Quince Cut Farm, we were given a final test in the form of intended sabotage.  The instructors told us that a certain spot would be a plant that we were supposed to blow up.  Everyone

843

had their orders and two fellows were together.  This took place at night.  We were told that we should sneak into this place that was a plant and place our explosives and get away without anyone seeing us.  We went out and came in to do this work, and I stepped on something that went off with an explosion.  I think it was a firecracker.  Then these instructors set off a lot of firecrackers.  One of the fellows was told to go into a little stone house, and when he went inside, the house was filled with tear gas.  The reason for this test was to see how well we should operate, and they told us we would have to be quiet and make no noise so that we would be able to do this without their seeing us.

“I have mentioned above that Herman Neubauer was a member of the second crew to come to the United States.  I now remember that Neubauer was known as Nicholaus.

“In connection with the formulas which we were furnished with at the school, I now recall that they instructed us in the use of what they called a ‘Molotov Cocktail.’  This was prepared by using a ginger ale bottle or any other type of bottle, and placing approximately one inch of sulfuric acid in the bottle and then filling the bottle with gasoline.  The bottle is then corked.  We were then told to remove the label from the bottle and to place under the label a mixture of potassium permanganate with sugar and glue.  This mixture was composed of three parts of the potassium permanganate, two parts of sugar and one part of glue.  Only a small amount of this mixture was placed under the label, and

844

the label was then put back on the bottle.  They told us that this type of incendiary was used by the Russians against the German tanks.  We were told that this could be used for setting fires and that the proper method was to throw the bottle into whatever we desired to burn.

“On the final night when we were given the practical problem, this type of incendiary was tested and worked perfectly.  During this test an unknown man came there to observe us.  He was an elderly man.  I did not learn his name or anything about him.

“I have explained above the way in which I was approached with the proposition of coming to the United States to work for Germany, and that I received a typed, unsigned letter instructing me to report to the Quince Gut Farm.  I now recall that this letter contained the notation ‘Ausland Abwehr’, which means ‘Foreign Defense.’  This was typed under the date on the letter.  The letter itself had no letterhead, and it was typed on a thin sheet of paper.  When I reported to the school at Quince Gut Farm, I gave this letter to Kappe, and he kept it.

“I have read the above statement consisting of 27 pages, which are typewritten, and have signed my name to each page thereof.  This statement is true and is complete according to the best of my recollection.

“Heinrich Heinck

“Witnessed:

“R. L. Johnson

“C. H. Stanley

“Special Agents Federal Bureau of Investigation, United States Department of Justice 607 U. S. Court House,New York, New York”

845

The Attorney General.  I will ask the reporter to mark these articles for identification.

(Articles handed to the reporter were marked, respectively, P-123, P-123-A, P-124 and P-125 for identification.)

 

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       I show you what has been marked for identification “P-123” and ask you if you can identify it?

A        Yes, sir; I can.

Q       What is it?

A        This is a wallet found in the possession of Heinck at the time he was arrested on June 20.

Q       You took it from Heinck?

A        I took it from Heinck myself.

Q       Is this a photograph of the wallet, this exhibit which I hand you marked P-123-A?

A        It looks like it is; yes sir.  It has my initials on it

The Attorney General.  I offer P-123 in evidence and ask that the photograph marked P-123 be spread on the original record.

(Wallet marked for identification P-123 was received in evidence.)

 

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       I show you, marked for identification, Exhibit P-124 and ask you what it is?

A        That is a registration certificate for selective service taken from Heinck at the time he was arrested, by myself.

Q       Was it in his wallet?

846

A        It was in his wallet; yes, sir.

Q       I show you P-124-A and ask you if it is a photograph of the registration certificate that you have just referred to. 

A        It appears to be.  It has my initials on it; yes, sir.

The Attorney General.  I offer P-124 in evidence and ask that P-124-A, the photograph, be spread on the original record.

(Registration certificate marked P-124 for identification was received in evidence.)

 

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       I show you P-125 and ask you if you can identify it.

A        Yes, sir.      

Q       What is it?

A        That is a Social Security card taken from the bill folder of Heinck at time he was arrested.       

Q       Is P-125-A a photograph of that card?

A        It appears to be; yes, sir.

The Attorney General.  I offer P-125 in evidence and ask that P-125-A be spread on the original record.

(Social Security card marked P-125 for identification was received in evidence.)

 

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       Were those two, the registration card and the Social Security card, the two cards referred to in Heinck’s statement which you read?      

A        Yes, sir.

Q       I show you P-44 and ask you what that is?

A        A slip of paper.  Heinck explained to me it was a paper which he signed in Berlin, Germany, at the time he received his uniform, from Walter Kappe.

847

Q       Is his signature on that card?

A        He told me that was his signature; yes, sir.

The Attorney General.  That I think, is already in evidence.

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       I show you P-45, already in evidence, and ask you whether you can identify it?

A        Yes, sir.

Q       What did Heinck say that that was?

A        I exhibited it to him and he told me it was a piece of paper which was pasted on the sea bag or duffel bag which they brought from Berlin and which they buried on Long Island when they landed.     

Q       Did he say what the German words marked on that paper were?

A        He didn’t know, except that he told me he was under the impression that the duffel bag belonged to the person whose name was thereon.

The Attorney General.  I will ask the reporter to mark these photographs.

(Photographs handed to the reporter were marked P-126 to P-137, inclusive, for identification.)

 

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       I show you photographs marked for identification P-126 to P-137, inclusive, and ask you what they are?

A        Those are photographs exhibited by me to Heinck on July 1, 1942.

Q       Of what are they photographs?  Did Heinck know?

848

A        Yes, sir.  This one, P-126, Heinck told me was a photograph of his sub. uniform worn on his trip to this country.

Q       Did he identify it?

A        He identified this as being—

Q       On the back did he identify it?

A        By placing his signature there, and the date.

Q       Will you run through the other photographs, describing briefly what each one represents, according to Heinck, and whether the identified it?

A        P-127 Heinck told me was a sea bag brought by his group on the submarine from Germany, and he identified it by placing his signature on and the date.

P-128 he identified as being—he placed a mark on a pair of sneakers—

Q       On the front?

A        Yes.  He advised me this was a pair of shoes worn by him on the submarine from Germany to America and identified it by placing his signature on it and the date.

P-129 he identified by placing his signature and the date, as being buttons, a similar type of button as those on the uniform worn on the submarine.

Q       You say, a similar type of button.  Did he identify the garment shown?

A        He identified one garment with buttons of this type.

849

P-130 was identified by Heinck as a cap on his head, of the kind worn by his group that they got in Berlin and worn by them on the submarine and identified by him.

P-131 was identified as the shovels brought in by his group in the submarine and used to bury the uniforms on Long Island where they landed.  He identified this by placing his signature on it.

He identified P-132 as detonating materials brought by them to this country form Germany, placing his signature thereon. 

He also identified P-133 as detonating material brought by them to America, also placing his signature thereon.

P-134 he identified as being photographs of explosive cans and TNT blocks and fuses brought by them to America, and placed his signature on the photographs.

P-135 he identified as being a photograph of explosive cans and TNT blocks and placed his signature and the date on this photograph.

P-136 he identified as being a photograph of boxes which contained explosives buried in Long Island which they brought from Germany and placed his signature and the date thereon.

P-137 Heinck identified as being a photograph of the 14-day time clocks brought by his group from Germany to America and furnished to them in Berlin, Germany.

Q       Did you show him the original objects of which these are photographs?

A        I showed him part of them.  I showed him the duffel bag, the sea bag, together with the uniform and the shovels and the raincoat and the shoes, as well as the cap.

850

Q       Were the shoes the shoes that Heinck said were his?

A        Yes, they were.

Q       And the cap?

A        Yes.

Q       And he identified the objects as being the objects that he had already identified in the photographs?

A        He identified the shoes as being the shoes worn by him.  He identified the duffel bag as being the duffel bag.  He identified the uniform, the dungaree jacket and trousers as being similar to those worn over here by him on his trip.

The Attorney.  I offer in evidence Prosecution’s Exhibits 126 to 137, inclusive, and ask that they be spread in the original record.

(Articles identified by Heinck, Exhibits 126 to 137, inclusive, were received in evidence.)

 

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       I may ask what Heinck said with reference to the two cards you found in his billfold.

A        The Selective Service and the Social Security?

Q       Yes.  What did he say about them?

A        He said that these two cards were given to him in Berlin at the time they were waiting to go to Paris and that the cards were given to him by George Dasch and filled out by Dasch.

Q       What did Heinck say to you—I think you referred to it once—with respect to the money he had, as to what he did with it.

A        The money in the money belts?

Q       Yes.

851

A        At first Heinck contended that he gave the money to George Dasch, but later he told me that he gave the money belt containing approximately $3600 to Herman Faje, a former friend of his, who lived in Astoria, Long Island, near the 36th Street Jamaica Avenue Subway.

Q       Did you find any other money on him?

A        Yes, sir.  At the time he was arrested I took from Heinck’s billfold $326.15.

The Attorney General.  You may take the witness.

Colonel Royall.  This, if the Commission pleases, is on behalf of the defendant Heinck rather than on behalf of the others.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

Questions by Colonel Royall:

Q       Mr. Magee, when you were told about the corrections relative to—

The President (interposing).  Will you state your name again, sir?

The Witness.  Stanley.

Colonel Royall.  Stanley.  I beg your pardon.

Questions by Colonel Royall:

Q       When were you told about the correction to be made with reference to the money?

A        I was told that on Sunday afternoon, June the 28th, 1942.

Q       You were requested to correct that on the written statement, were you?

A        Heinck asked me not to put that in the written statement and I agreed not to do it.

852

The President.  May I have that read by the reporter, the question and the answer?

The Reporter (reading):

“Question.  You were requested to correct that on the written statement, were you?

“Answer.  Heinck asked me not to put that in the written statement and I agreed not to do it.”

 

The President.  Proceed.

Questions by Colonel Royal:

Q       Heinck told you that he worked at one time for Norden, did he not?

A        He said he worked for the American Manufacturing and Tool Company, which was a subsidiary or branch of the Norden and in the same building as the Norden.

Q       And did he tell you that during the period shortly before he went to Germany he had found it impossible to get work, because he was not an American citizen and was a German citizen?

A        No, sir, he did not.

Q       I believe he did tell you that after he got into this school he found that it would be impossible for him to get out of the plan without running considerable danger from the Gestapo, didn’t he?

A        No, sir, he did not.

Q       Did you take part in the questioning of any of these other defendants?

853

A        Briefly, some of them, yes, sir.

Q       Which others?

A        I talked to Kelly or Kerling for a few minutes.  I talked to Quintas or Quirin.  I talked to Haupt a very few minutes.  I talked with Neubauer for a short time.  That is, I showed them the uniforms.  I did not question them.  I showed them the uniforms.  And I was present for a short time during the questioning of Burger.

Q       Had you talked to any of them before June the 21st, when you took this statement from Heinck?

A        No, sir, I had not.

Q       Had you talked with any of them before June the 23rd, when you took the second statement from Heinck?

A        No, sir, I had not, personally.

Q       Therefore you could not have and did not give Heinck any information as to what the others had told you?

A        I did not give him any information, no, sir.

Q       I believe in discussing with you the incendiary materials and describing it to you he made the specific statement that he had no reason to withhold that information from you, did he?

A        He said that, yes, sir.

Q       He further told you, did he not, that although requested to learn about radio as a means of communication from this country, he had refused to do so?

A        That is right, yes, sir.     

Q       I notice during this statement the work which Heinck was to do was in each instance referred to as sabotage.  Was that his term or your term?

854

A        That was his term.  I might qualify that, if I may.

Q       Yes.  

A        At the time he told us about being instructed or being recruited for this school, he said he did not recall exactly whether the word “sabotage” was used at the time, but from the way they described it he knew that was what they meant.

Q       And your questions thereafter used the same word, didn’t they?         

A        We probably used the word “sabotage,” yes, sir, on several occasions.

Q       He also told you that they had definite instructions, if they were successful in destroying one or more aluminum plants, to do nothing more, didn’t he?

A        One or more?  I believe I might qualify that.  He said if they were successful in destroying the aluminum plants.  He did not specify one or more.  He was speaking of the industry, I believe.

Q       Did he tell you specifically that they were instructed to injure no one physically?

A        He said that, yes, sir.

Q       And he also told you that they were given no rifle practice and no pistol practice, except one isolated instance where it was more or less a matter of recreation, didn’t he?

A        Yes, that is what he said.

Colonel Royall.  That is all.

Colonel Ristine.  No questions.

The Attorney General.  That is all.

The President.  Any questions from the Commission?  There

855

seem to be none.

(The witness left the stand.)

The Attorney General.  Mr. Johnson.

Major Rives.  Richard L. Johnson.  This witness has not been sworn as to secrecy.

Colonel Munson.  Mr. Johnson, two oaths are taken.  One is an oath of secrecy.  I am instructed by the Commission to inform you that violation of that oath may result in contempt proceedings or in other penal proceedings, and in taking it you so understand?

Mr. Johnson.  Yes, sir.

Colonel Munson.  Will you hold up your right hand, please. 

You do solemnly swear that you will not divulge the proceedings taken in this trial to anyone outside the courtroom until released from your obligation by proper authority or required so to do by such proper authority?

Mr. Johnson.  I do.

Colonel Munson.  I will give you the oath as a witness:

You do solemnly swear that the testimony you shall give in this case shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. Johnson.  I do.

RICHARD L. JOHNSON

was called as a witness for the prosecution and testified as follows:

Colonel Munson.  Will you state your name, residence or office address, and occupation?

The Witness.  Richard L. Johnson, New York City, Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

856

DIRECT EXAMINATION

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       Mr. Johnson, did you search the defendant Heinck?

A        I did not search the defendant Heinck.

Q       Did you search his premises?

A        I did, yes.

Q       Did you find any clothes in his premises?

A        I did, sir.

The Attorney General.  I will ask the reporter to mark these for identification.

(Various articles of clothing were marked for identification P-138, 139 and 140.)

 

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       I show you Prosecution’s Exhibits 138, 139 and 140.  Do the defendants want to see these?

Colonel Royall.  No.

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       And I ask you whether you can identify them.

A        I can, sir.  This is a suit of clothes consisting of a pair of trousers, a coat and a vest, which was found in a suitcase in Heinck’s room at 139 West 76th Street—149.  Pardon me.

Q       On what day?

A        On June 20th, 1942.

Q       What did he say with respect to that suit of clothes?

A        This suit of clothes was later exhibited to Heinck on June 22, 1942, and he identified this as a suit of clothes that he purchased in New York City before he returned to Germany in 1939 and as a suit that he brought to New York from Germany with

857

him when he came over in a submarine and into which he changed after he removed a uniform on the beach near Amagansett, Long Island, on the early morning of June 13, 1942.

The Attorney General.  I will ask the reporter to identify these photographs as P-141, 142, and 143.

(Photographs were thereupon marked for identification as P-141, 142, and 143.

 

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       I show you Prosecution’s Exhibits 141, 142, and 142, which are photographs of this suit, are they?

A        Yes.

Q       Did you show those to Heinck?

A        I did not show these to Heinck, no.

Q       But they are photographs of this suit?

A        They are photographs of the three pieces of the suit.

The Attorney General.  I offer the photographs in evidence and ask that they be spread in the record.

(The three photographs, being photographs of the three pieces of the suit, P-141, 142 and 143, were thereupon received in evidence.)

 

The Attorney General.  I will ask the reporter to mark these for identification P-144 and P-144-A.

(An article of clothing and a photograph were thereupon marked for identification as P-144 and P-144-A, respectively.)

 

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       I show you Exhibit P-144 and ask you what that is.

A        That is a pair of bathing trunks.

Q       Where did you find them?

A        These were found in the defendant Heinck’s room when

858

his room was searched on June 20, 1942.

Q       What did he say about it?

A        He said these were the bathing trunks he wore when he landed on the beach near Amagansett, Long Island, on the morning of June 13, 1942, and that he put his clothes on over these bathing trunks when he did change clothes.

Q       I show you P-144-A.  Is that a photograph of the trunks?

A        That is a photograph of the trunks, yes.

The Attorney General.  I offer P-144-A in evidence and ask that it be spread on the record.

(The photograph of the bathing trunks, P-144-A, was thereupon received in evidence.)

 

The Attorney General.  Do you wish to see these, Mr. President?

The President.  To save you trouble, Mr. Attorney General, in case we want to see anything we will ask for it.

The Attorney General.  All right.

I will ask the reporter to mark this P-145.

(An article of clothing was thereupon marked for identification P-145.)

 

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       I show you P-145 and ask you whether you found that in Heinck’s room.

A        That is a black belt and it has a metal buckle with an “H” on the buckle.  This belt was found in Heinck’s room when it was searched on June 20, 1942.

The Attorney General.  I will ask the reporter to mark this photograph 145-A.

859

(A photograph of the belt, P-145, was thereupon marked for identification as P-145-A.)

 

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       Exhibit 145-A is a photograph of this belt?

A        Yes, it is.

The Attorney General.  I now offer 145-A and ask it be spread in the original record.

(The photograph of the belt was received in evidence as P-145-A.)

 

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       Now, did you go to the house of Herman Faje?

A        I did, yes.

Q       And what day did you go?

A        On Monday, June 28, 1942.

Q       Did you find there any money?

A        Pardon me.  It was Monday, June 29th.  I believe that is correct.

Q       June 29th?

A        Yes.

Q       What did you find there in connection with what has been already testified with respect to what the defendant Heinck told you?

A        We found $3600 in fifty-dollar bills, two envelopes, containing 36 fifty-dollar bills each is what we found.

Q       Where were they found?

A        They were found between two sections of a radiator cover.  If I may explain my answer there, the radiator cover in this apartment was a two-piece radiator cover, one piece telescoped into the other, and the two envelopes containing the

860

money had been placed between the two sections of the cover as they telescoped in.

Q       Did Mr. Faje show you where they were?

A        He did.  He in fact located the money and delivered it to us.

Q       Where did you get Faje’s address from?

861

A        Fage’s address we didn’t’ know until we located the apartment.  We received the approximate location of Fage’s residence from Heinck, but I don’t know the address.

The Attorney General.  Cross-examine.

CROSS-EXAMINATION

Questions by Colonel Royall:

Q       Mr. Johnson, did you at any time talk with any of the other defendants?

A        In this case?

Q       That is right.

A        None except Heinck himself.

Q       When you found the clothes that you have described, was there sand in them?

A        There was sand in the suit itself, yes, but I don’t believe there was any sand on anything else.  I noticed sand, though, adhering to the suit and in the cuffs of the trousers and in the pockets.

Q       It was pretty visible and easy to discover, was it?

A        Yes, sir.

Colonel Royall.  That examination was on behalf of the defendant Heinck. None of the other defendants desires to examine.

Colonel Ristine.  I have no questions.

The President.  Are there any questions by the Commission?  There seem to be none.  The witness is excused.

The Attorney General.  We will call Mr. Wiand.

Lieutenant Page.  Mr. B. F. Wiand.  This witness has not been sworn as to secrecy.

Colonel Royall.  Will you tell me whom this witness’

862

testimony relates to?

The Attorney General.  This relates to the defendant Quirin.

Colonel Munson.  There are two oaths taken by each witness:  the oath of a witness and, in addition, the oath of secrecy.

I am instructed by the Commission to inform you that violation of the oath of secrecy may result in contempt proceedings or other proceedings of a court nature.  In taking that oath, you so understand?

Mr. Wiand.  Yes, sir.

Colonel Munson.  Do you solemnly swear that you will not divulge the proceedings taken in this trial to anyone outside the courtroom until released from your obligation by proper authority or required so to do by proper authority?

Mr. Wiand.  I do.

Colonel Munson.  This is the oath you will take as a witness:

Do you swear that the evidence you shall give in the case now on hearing shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. Wiand.  I do.

BURTON F. WIAND

was called as a witness for the prosecution and testified as follows:

Colonel Munson.  State, please, your name, residence or office address, and occupation.

The Witness.  My name is Burton F. Wiand.  My address is 607 U. S. Courthouse, New York City.  I am a Special Agent of

863

the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

The Attorney General.  I will ask to have these three waivers marked for identification.

(3 waivers were marked as Exhibits P-146, P-147, and P-148 for identification.)

 

The Attorney General.  I offer in evidence three waivers, they having already been marked for identification as Exhibits P-146, P-147, and P-148.  I understand that there is no objection to them; therefore, I shall not further identify them but ask that they be spread in the record.

“P-146

“Federal Bureau of Investigation

“United States Department of Justice

New York, N.Y.

June 20, 1942.

“I, Richard Quintas, hereby authorize any Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, United States Department of Justice, to conduct a complete search of my residence located at 149 W 76th St. New York, N.Y.  These Agents are authorized by me to take from my residence any letters, papers, materials or other property which they may desire.

“This written permission is being given by me to the above named Special Agents voluntarily and without threats of promises of any kind.

“(Signed)

“Richard Quintas.

864

“WITNESSES:

“B. F. Wiand

“H. G. Foster

“Special Agents

“Federal Bureau of Investigation.”

- - -

 

“P-147

“Federal Bureau of Investigation

“United States Department of Justice

New York, N.Y.

June 20, 1942

 

“I, Richard Quintas do hereby consent to remain under the continuous physical supervision of the Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, U.S. Department of Justice, without immediate arraignment, and at such place as may be designated by the said Agents, while information furnished or to be furnished by me regarding any violation of the laws of the United States is being verified.

“This I regard solely as a step necessary for my protection during the progress of this investigation and my consent to this arrangement, is therefore, freely given by me without fear of threat or promise of reward.  It is, however, not to be construed as an admission of guilt on my part.

“The foregoing having been read by me and having been to be a true and exact representation of my voluntary decision in the matter, of my own free will

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I herewith affix my signature in approval thereof.

“Richard Quintas.

“WITNESS:

“B. F. Wiand

“Special Agent, F.B.I.

U.S. Dept. of Justice

 

“H. G. Foster

“Special Agent, F.B.I.

U.S. Dept. of Justice.”

 

“P-148

New York City

June 25, 1942

“I, Richard Quirin alias Dick Quintas, having been first fully informed by W. W. Fisher, Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation of the Department of Justice, that I have the right not to be removed from the Judicial District in which I was taken into custody without being first arraigned before a duly authorized judicial officer or magistrate and except by virtue of a warrant of removal issued for that purpose, do hereby waive my right to be arraigned before a duly authorized judicial officer or magistrate and my right not to be removed from the said judicial district except by virtue of a warrant of removal issued for that purpose, and do hereby freely consent and agree that I may be forthwith removed by representatives of the Department of Justice in their discretion to any judicial district of the United States, either for the purpose of questioning or for the purpose of being held to answer any criminal charges.

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“I am executing this waiver and consent of my own free will, and without any pressure, compulsion or coercion of any kind whatsoever.

“The foregoing document was read to me before I signed it, and I fully understand its meaning and purport.

“Richard Quirin

“Witnesses:

“W. W. Fisher

“Sp. Agt. F.B.I.

“NYC.

 

“R. E. Trow

“Sp. Agt. F.B.I.

“N.Y.C.”

 

DIRECT EXAMINATION

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       Do you know the defendant Quirin?

A        Yes, sir, I do.

Q       Will you identify him, please?

A        He is sitting at counsel table there, the gray-headed gentleman with the red tie.

Q       Did you take his statement?

A        I did, yes, sir.

Q       When?

A        I took his statement on June 20.  It was signed on June 22.  I took a supplemental statement.  That was signed on June 28.  I took another statement on July 3.

Q       At what time on June 20 was the first statement taken?

A        That statement was taken—he was questioned approximately three hours on the 20th and the following two

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days, on the 21st and 22nd, and he signed the statement on the 22nd.

Q       What other agents were present while the statement was being taken?

A        Special Agent H. G. Foster was present when the first two statements were taken; and for the third statement, Special Agent C. E. Airhart was present.

Q       I do not think you have said where that was taken.

A        In our office in New York City, 607 U. S. Courthouse. 

The Attorney General.  I will ask to have these statements marked for identification.

(3 statements were marked as Exhibits P-149, P-150, and P-151 for identification.)

 

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       I will show you a document marked as Exhibit P-149 for identification and ask you whether that was the statement you took.

A        Yes, sir, it is.

Q       When was that signed?

A        That was signed on June 22, 1942.

Q       How was it signed?

A        It was signed in my presence and the presence of Special Agent H. G. Foster by Richard Quirin.

Q       How does that signature appear?

A        Richard Quirin.

Q       That is on the last page?

A        That is right.

Q       Did he sign the other pages?

A        Yes, he signed at the bottom of each page of the

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statement.

Q       How did he sign each page?

A        He read the page out loud.

Q       What was his signature?

A        R. Quirin.

Q       Did he read the statement over before he signed it?

A        Yes, he did.

Q       Do those corrections appear on the original statement?

A        They do, yes, sir.

Q       Is each correction initialed by him?

A        That is right, yes, sir.

The Attorney General.  I offer Exhibit P-149 in evidence.

(Exhibit P-149 was offered in evidence.)

 

Colonel Royall.  May it please the Commission, I should like to examine the witness as to the circumstances under which the statement was taken.

The Attorney General.  I have no objection, of course.

PRELIMINARY EXAMINATION

Questions by Colonel Royall:

Q       You pronounce your name Wiand?

A        Wiand, yes, sir.

Q       Mr. Wiand, what, if anything, did you say to the defendant Quirin as to the treatment he would receive in the event he gave you a full statement?

A        I don’t believe I understand your question.

Q       What did you say to the defendant Quirin would be

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the result if he gave you a full statement of what happened?

A        Well, I told the defendant Quirin at the time that he could cooperate by furnishing full facts, and that is what he did.

Q       What else did you say to him?

A        That is all that I told him.

Q       What did you say about his getting more favorable treatment from the Court in the event he should make a full statement to you?

A        I didn’t say anything to him to that effect.

Q       You heard someone else say it, didn’t you?

A        No, sir, I didn’t.

Q       Who was there with you?

A        Special Agent Foster was with me at the time this statement was taken.

Q       Anyone else?

A        Not at the time, no, sir.

Q       What was the date of that statement?

The Attorney General.  June 20, but I understand it was signed on the 22nd.

Questions by Colonel Royall:

Q       Who were present when Quirin signed this statement?

A        I was present when he signed it, and Special Agent Foster was present when he signed it.

Q       Where is Special Agent Foster?

A        I believe he is here.

Q       In answer to one of my previous questions you stated that you did not say anything to that affect.  Did you say anything similar to that?

A        I told him that his cooperation would be appreciated;

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that is what I told him: that we wanted full facts; that that was our job—to determine the facts.

Q       How long did you question him before this statement was made?

A        Approximately four hours on the 20th and approximately three hours on the two following days.

Q       There were three statements, were there?

A        No, sir; that was for the first statement—this one here, yes sir.

Colonel Royall.  That is all I care to ask in the preliminary questions.

The Attorney General.  I think I have offered this statement in evidence.

Colonel Royall.  Would you mind furnishing me with a copy?

The Attorney General.  I am sorry; I thought you had a copy.

Colonel Royall.  No, I thought I had one, too, but I find I do not have one.

(The Attorney General handed a document to Colonel Royall.)

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       Mr. Wiand, will you please read this statement, Exhibit P-149?

A        (Reading)

New York, N. Y.

June 20, 1942

“I, Richard Quirin, having been told by H. G. Foster and B. F. Wiand that they are Special Agents

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of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, make the following statement voluntarily and of my own free will.  I have received no threats or promises and I realize that this statement may be used as evidence in a Court of Law.

“The following questions were put by Special Agent B. F. Wiand.

“Question.  Richard, where were you born?

“Answer.  I was born in Berlin, Germany the 26th of April, 1908.

“Question.  Have you any brothers or sisters?

“Answer.  No, I have no brothers or sisters.

“Question.  State the name of your parents.

“Answer.  My foster father’s name was Ernst, and my mother’s name was Helen.

“Question.  Did you attend the public schools in Germany?

“Answer.  I attended public school for about 8 years.

“Question.  Where did you study?

“Answer.  In Berlin and Hanover.

“Question.  When you completed your 8 years of public school, what did you then do?

“Answer.  I went to work in a factory.  I was a mechanics helper and after that I worked a year on a farm.  From that place I came to America.

“Question.  Do you know the name of the factory, and how long did you work there?

“Answer.  I worked there over 3 years in the factory.

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It was a machine shop in Hanover.  Its name was Schultz and they were making threshing machines and machines used for farming.

“Question.  You state that you came to the United States shortly after you quit working on the farm?

“Answer.  Yes.

“Question.  Were your father and mother living at the time?

“Answer.  No.  My foster father died when I was 9 years of age, and my mother is still living at Berlin, 65 Nuremberg Str.

“Question.  Do you recall the date you sailed from Germany coming to the United States?

“Answer.  Yes.  It was the 17th of October 1927.  I sailed from Bremen on the SS York to New York.

“Question.  What was your foster father’s occupation?

“Answer.  He was a machinist.

“Question.  Did you pay your own way to the United States?

“Answer.  Yes.

“Question.  And who were you coming to see?

“Answer.  My uncle Ernst Wigleb.  He lived in Schenectady.  I don’t know the number.

“Question.  Did you secure employment after you arrived in the United States?

“Answer.  Yes.  I worked as a tinsmith’s helper for a few weeks and after that I got a job with the General

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Electric Company in Schenectady.

“Question (by Agent Foster).  Was it in the main plant?

“Answer.  Yes.

“Question.  And what was your job?

“Answer.  With the maintenance crew.

“Question.  Did you go around through the various parts of the factory and repair machines?

“Answer.  No – well my job was at this particular building.  But sometimes I had to go to get tools or iron from other parts of the plant.

“Question (by Agent Wiand).  You state you went to work here about 1927?

“Answer.  Yes.

“Question.  How long were you employed by the General Electric Company?

“Answer.  About three years.

“Question.  And why did you leave their employ?

“Answer.  I was laid off because of lack of work.

“Question.  Then what did you do?

“Answer.  I went to New York and I had odd jobs here and I took to painting.  I worked there several years at different jobs on and off.  At times I was out of work.  I worked for Mr. Simon and a Mr. Feraystadt for a short time.

“Question.  Where did you next find employment?

“Answer.  Well – after that I had various other jobs but only for short times.  I can’t recall all these jobs.

874

“Question.  Did you work for any other company in New York?

“Answer.  No.  Not a big company.  It was all private bosses, you know.  They have some jobs and I worked at one of them 6 weeks or 8 weeks.  One of these companies was the Multi-Needle Engineering Corp. near the 59th St. Bridge in Long Island.

“Question.  Can you recall any of the addresses where you lived in New York City while you were here?

“Answer.  Yes.  231 E. 86th St.

“Question.  What year was that?

“Answer.  That was shortly before I took this job out at Chappaqua.  1936.

“Question.  Where did you live when you first came to New York City?

“Answer.  At 138th St. between Willis and Brook Avenues.  They call it the first elevator building in the Bronx.

“Question.  Can you recall any other addresses where you lived while in New York City?

“Answer.  I lived in Astoria for a while but I can’t remember the address.

“Question.  When did you move to Chappaqua, N. Y. in Westchester County?

“Answer.  That was in January or February of 1938.  I stayed there until I went to Germany in 1939.

“Question.  By whom where you employed?

“Answer.  Mr. J. V. Rauch.

“Question.  And what did you do?

875

“Answer.  I was chauffeur there.

“Question.  Do you know the nature of Mr. Rauch’s business?

“Answer.  Well – not exactly.  He didn’t tell me much about his business.  All I know is he had an office there, downtown.  When he went to work every morning I took him to the station and took him home from the station.  I think it was a cotton business.  Sport outfits – like skiing outfits made of cotton and impregnated goods for winter wear, skiing, etc.

“Question.  Are you married?  

“Answer.  Yes.

“Question.  When were you married?

“Answer.  In 1936 – in New York City.

“Question.  What was your wife’s maiden name?

“Answer.  Ann Sesselmann.

“Question.  Was she German born?  

“Answer.  Yes.

“Question (By Agent Foster).  When did she come here?

“Answer.  In 1930.

“Question.  Did she have any relatives here?

“Answer.  Not that I know of.

“Question.  Where did she live when you married her?

“Answer.  We both lived in New York and at the time I was in Chappaqua she was there with me.

“Question.  At the time you married here where did she live.

“Answer.  On Third Avenue between 85th and 86th Streets.

876

“Question.  While you were in the United States did you belong to any clubs or societies of any nature whatsoever?

“Answer.  I joined the Friends of New Germany I think in 1933 and remained in the organization about one year.  I wore the party uniform at club meetings.  I resigned because I was a German citizen.

“Question.  Did you ever attend any of the meetings of any clubs or societies?

“Answer.  Yes—we went to dances and different gatherings in Yorkville and the meetings of Friends of New Germany while I was a member.

“Question.  Did you ever become a citizen of the United States.

“Answer.  No.  I took out my 1st papers in Schenectady – I think in 1929.  I never became a citizen of the United States though.

“Question.  Did your wife ever become a citizen of the United States?

“Answer.  No.

“Question.  Did she ever take out her 1st papers?

“Answer.  That I don’t know.

“Question.  You state that you returned to Germany in the year 1939.  Will you give the reason why you returned to Germany at this time?

“Answer.  I returned to Germany mainly on account of my wife, because she was too sick here.  It was due to homesickness I thought at the time.

“Question.  When you decided to return to Germany

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what arrangements did you make in connection with this trip?

“Answer.  The German Consul offered me to go back to Germany and they would pay my way and get me a job over there – which I did.

“Question.  Why did you go to see the German Consul?

“Answer.  I went there because I made up my mind to go back with my wife.  I heard rumors through friends that some had their way paid back and I inquired about this and they offered to send me back and pay my way and offered to get me a job too.  The boat was leaving in July.  My wife went back two months before me.  I had two months to wait.

“Question.  I understand then – your wife went to Germany in May you paying her way, and then you went to Germany in July, your way being paid by the German government.  Is that correct?

“Answer.  Yes.  That’s right.

“Question.  What was the name of the boat on which you sailed and the date?

“Answer.  The Bromen on the 25th of July 1939.

“Question (By Agent Foster).  As a matter of fact, when you went to the German Consulate – do you think the fact that you were a mechanic assisted them in deciding to send you back to Germany?

“Answer.  It may have been.

“Question.  Was that point stressed?

“Answer.  No.  They told me they do pay for fellows

878

who have some kind of trade.  That was the understanding.

“Question (By Agent Wiand).  At the time you decided to return to Germany in 1939 what was your attitude toward the German Government.

“Answer.  Well – I was in favor of it I would say.  And I believed that things would become better over there than they had been.

“Question.  Did you intend to return to the United States?  At any time?

“Answer.  Not at the time when I left.

“Question.  At what port did you arrive in Germany?

“Answer.  Bremen.

“Question.  Now state what you did when you arrived in Germany?

“Answer.  I was with my mother-in-law whom I had never met before, and about two weeks later I started to work in the plant.

“Question.  Was your job already arranged for you upon your arrival?

“Answer.  Well not the job itself, because they had to find out what I could do and according to that they got the job for me.  But the place I was to work was arranged for me.

“Question.  Did you immediately become a member of the German Labor Front?

“Answer.  Yes.  It had to be that way because when you take up work you have to be a member of it.

“Question.  Prior to your return to Germany, did you buy any reimmigration marks known as Rueckwanderer

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marks?

“Answer.  Yes.  $500 worth in my name.

“Question.  In what factory were you employed in Germany?

“Answer.  Vokswagenwerk in Braunschweig, Germany.

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“Q      What type of work did you do in the factory?

“A      Tool making.

“Q      Was this a large factory, and what did they manufacture?

“A      They made cars.  It was a new type of car that was being put out, it was known as the people’s car.

“Q      Was it a big factory?

“A      Yes, they employed several thousand people.

“Q      Where did you live in Germany?

“A      Braunschweig, Grazer Strasse 14.

“Q      Does your wife still reside at that address?

“A      No, she lives in South Germany with her parents in Kulmbach, Germany.

“Q      What is the name of your wife’s parents?

“A      Sesselmann.  Jacob Sesselmann.

“Q      What is her mother’s name?

“A      That I don’t recall.

“Q      What does her father do?

“A      He is a farmer.

“Q      How long were you employed in Volkswagenwerk?

“A      From August, 1939 to April, 1942.

“Q      Why did you leave your employment at the Volkswagenwerk?

“A      I knew a fellow who worked in Volkswagenwerk by the name of Henry Kayner, although I do not know if his last name is correct, and he came to me and told me that he knew a fellow that was looking for a man to go over on a trip to America for the purpose of serving Germany in America.

881

“Q      After Henry told you about this, what did you next do?

“A      We went to Berlin and went to a place which was in the center of the city, Ranta Strasse 5, an apartment and office building, where we saw a man who explained to us the nature of this trip, whose name I do not know, and he asked me if I wanted to come to America.

“Q      Explain what the proposition was that he explained to you concerning your proposed trip to the United States.

“A      He said that if we wanted to come over here and get acquainted with people in order to create some kind of an organization or people that would be against war and fight it and work toward the end of the war, we would go to a place where we would get some training in sabotage.  He did not, at the time, mention what it was, but we found out later about it, and said that we would then be sent to America.

“Q      Did you accept this proposition at the time you talked with this person?

“A      Yes.

“Q      With regard to this person who spoke with you in Berlin concerning your proposed trip to this country, do you know, or have you any reason to believe that he was connected with the German Government?

“A      I was not sure what he belonged to, but it was my opinion that he was from the Army.

“Q      Did you receive any further instructions from this person?

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“A      He told us to go back to Braunschweig.  We stayed there until we received a letter telling us that we were to be on a certain farm on a certain day.  That was in the middle of April.  I don’t know the exact date.  After receiving this letter, I went to this farm and there we stayed for about three weeks getting the lessons.

“Q      Where was this farm located?

“A      It is near Berlin.

“Q      What were the names of the individuals who were in charge of you at the farm?

“A      I did not know any of their names but the instructors were doctors.

“Q      Did anyone go to the farm with you?

“A      Yes, Henry and I went together.

“Q      And, after you arrived, what did you do the first week?

“A      The first week we didn’t do anything, just took it easy; conversed in the English language, read American newspapers and magazines, such as the Saturday Evening Post and Life.  The latest of these magazines was dated January 1942.

“Q      After you had spent your first week at this farm then what was your schedule?

“A      Then we got to know about the explosives, what they were and how they were used.

“Q      Did you experiment with the use of these explosives?

“A      Yes, we experimented.

“Q      Would you describe the type of explosives you

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were shown and used?

“A      It was a block explosive, yellow color, it was hard, size about 6 inches wide, two inches high and about eight or ten inches long.

“Q      Did you have any other type of explosive showed to you?

“A      Yes, a black explosive.  This was the same stuff except it was black and looked like coal.  It was in lump.  It was rough and in various size pieces.

“Q      Were you ever told what type of explosive it was which you were experimenting?

“A      No, not exactly.

“Q      Did they explain to you the precautions to be taken in handling these explosives?

“A      They explained to use that it was very stable and that nothing could happen to it.  You could saw it or drill holes into it and it wouldn’t go off.

“Q      Did you actually use some of this explosive in your experiments?

“A      Yes, I blew up a stump once with it.  I took a detonator, attached a fuse to that, put the detonator in the block of explosive, then I tied this whole thing to the stump and set a match to the fuse.

“Q      Were you given instructions as to a safe length with reference to the fuse?

“A      Yes, a safe length was told me about a yard.       

“Q      Were you given any instructions in the handling of these detonator caps?

“A      Yes, they were very dangerous and that we should be very careful and not monkey around with them.

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“Q      What was the main use to which you were expected to put this explosive?

“A      As a cutting charge.

“Q      When you say cutting charge, what do you mean?

“A      I mean cut up steel rails and things like that.

“Q      What did they tell you in the way of explaining how to set a cutting charge?

“A      They told us that two pounds would be sufficient to cut a railroad rail.

“Q      Did they give you any other instructions as to cutting charges?

“A      Not exactly, they showed us this one way, and if you ever needed it for anything else, we could take some of that explosive and use it according to the amount you had to use to cut a railroad rail.

“Q      Were the only explosives you used the black lumps and the yellow blocks?

“A      The black lumps we did not use at all, we used the yellow blocks.

“Q      Did you use any other fuse besides the safety fuse?

“A      No, we didn’t.

“Q      Did you use anything to detonate these explosives besides detonating caps?

“A      No.

“Q      Then the only things you used in the way of explosives were black lumps and yellow blocks, safety fuses and detonating caps?

“A      Yes.  We later learned something about times devices.

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“Q      What instructions, if any, did you receive in connection with timing devices?

“A      We received some instructions about that in fixing up a watch and using the finger of the watch as a circuit attached to batteries and detonating the explosives by an electrical means.  They also showed us some regular timing devices which were all ready, the only thing you had to do was to apply a detonator cap and set the clock.  They also told us about using water in a cup with a hole in the bottom of the cup but I do not remember exactly how it works.

“Q      Did you receive any instructions in the use of incendiary devices?

“A      Yes.  They told us to use gasoline or any inflammables and use the fuse for setting of the fire.

“Q      During the time you were on this farm, what instructions did you receive in connection with the type of objects you were to sabotage?

“A      If we had the chance to find places which made any kind of armaments, we could use these explosives.

“Q      In what way?

“A      By putting the place out of work for a time by cutting down power lines or tying up traffic by cutting rails on railroads.

“Q      Then, I understand you to state that your acts of sabotage were to be directed against any plant engaged in the manufacture of war materials and also transportation facilities.  Is that correct?

“A      Yes.

“Q      Did you receive any instructions in the use of

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sand or abrasive in gears and oil boxes, and if so, give the instructions that you received?

“A      Yes, we were told that we could put sand into oil boxes on railroad cars and engines and cripple them that way.

“Q      Were you ever instructed to obtain employment in a national defense plant and commit an act of sabotage in the place where you were working?

“A      No, we were not instructed to do anything like that in the plant in which we might get a job.

“Q      With reference to this farm where you were trained, was this used by any part of the German Army?

“A      Yes, I was told that this place was used for training grounds for the Army.

“Q      What part of the Army?

“A      Pioneer troops.

“Q      What does a pioneer troop do in the German Army?

“A      They build bridges and are in front of the fighting troops to pave the way for them or take out mines from mine fields and stuff like that.

“Q      What were your instructions as given you at the farm, which you were to use when you arrived in the United States?

“A      In addition to the sabotage work, I was instructed to find people that were against war and would work toward that end and create some kind of an organization which would fight against the war.

“Q      Will you describe a typical day on the farm while you were there?

“A      We got up in the morning, we had exercises first,

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then we had breakfast, and we sat down and read English papers and magazines, and then we talked in English among ourselves.  We spoke in English to know English better.  Then we had rest again, playing games, and had lunch.  In the afternoon sometimes we would go out for bike rides or we would sit around and exchange ideas as to what to do when we got into America.  They gave ideas to accustom yourself to your surrounding and try to find people who would listen to you and get them to believe against this war, and see what these people would be willing to do to help.  All during this time though we received instructions in the use of explosives.

“Q      How many men were at this farm when you were there, not including your instructors?

“A      There were seven men, whose first names I remember.  They all appeared to be the same as I was.

“Q      Do you know the full names of any of these men?

“A      The only ones whose names I know is Henry Kayner, Pete Burger, George Dasch.

“Q      What were the names of the other men in addition to Henry Kayner?

“A      George, Pete, Erich, Bill and Herman.  Most of the time George, Pete, Henry and I were together and had little to do with the other fellows.  We were supposed to be together on this trip and that was the reason why we always kept together.

“Q      The reason, then, for these persons being at this farm was to be trained in sabotage work to be performed in the United States when they arrived?

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“A      Yes.

“Q      At the time you were arrested you had in your possession a Social Security card and a Selective Service Registration card.  Where did you get these cards and explain why they were given to you?

“A      I got them at the farm and they were given to me by my instructors.  They told me we had to have them.  They were already filled out when I got them and I signed my name on it, which name I signed as Richard Quintas.

“Q      During the time you were on this farm, were plans formulated as to the names that you were to use, and were you instructed what to do in the event you were arrested?

“A      No I was not instructed.  I decided to use the name of Richard Quintas which I made up for myself.

“Q      At the time you were arrested, you stated that you were a Portuguese, were you instructed that you were to use a certain story or name?

“A      We received no intructions what to do if arrested other than not to talk but we discussed among ourselves what we would do and what story we would tell and I decided I would say I was from Chicago and that I was born in Portugal.

“Q      When you were at the farm, did your instructors tell you that you were coming to the United States?

“A      Yes, they told me we were going by way of submarine to the United States and would be put ashore there, which place was not fixed.

“Q      While you were at the farm, did you have an interview or conversation with anyone concerning the future care of your wife and child?

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“A      Yes, I was told that my wife would get money every month to live on.

“Q      How much?

“A      Three hundred marks and they made out a written statement of this; also in the event something happened to me, they would take care of my family.

“Q      And if you became permanently injured, you would get a pension right?

“A      Yes.

“Q      What was your salary while you worked for Volkswagenwerk?

“A      350 to 400 marks a month.

“Q      Can you fix a date when you left the farm where you were trained for your work in the United States for the German Government?

“A      I think it was the sixth of May.  I was supposed to be back at Berlin on the 12th.

“Q      Where did you go?

“A      I went home to Braunschweig and took my wife to her parents in Kulmbach.

“Q      You state you have one child, please giver her name and date of birth.

“A      Rosemarie; 4th of October, 1940.

“Q      After you had taken your wife to her parents, then were did you go and did you tell your wife what you were going to do?

“A      No, the understanding was that I was not to tell anybody, not even my wife.  I stayed there for a week with my wife and I went back to Berlin and got there about May 12.

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I reported to the man I originally saw at Ranta Strasse 5.  He told me to wait there, he would tell us when we were to leave.

“Q      At that time, were you, George, Pete, and Henry in Berlin?

“A      Yes.

“Q      Were you given any money?

“A      Yes, we had money to live on in Berlin and he gave me $4,000 to come over here when we left.

“Q      Was this money to be used by you alone, or was it for you and Henry?

“A      It was for Henry and me, and we had some pocket money besides that.

“Q      How much money all together did you have?

“A      I had about $300 besides the money belt which was supposed to be $4000.  I do not know how much money Henry had.

“Q      At any time while you were in Germany, was anyone designated in your group as a leader in your group of four men?  Were you ever given any instructions with whom you were to work in the United States and the place where you were to reside?

“A      The understanding was that Henry and I would be together in New York, not knowing what the others were to do.  We were to split up.  Definite instructions were made that George was to be leader.

“Q      Can you fix a date when you left Berlin proceeding to the United States?

“A      I can’t fix the exact date but remained in

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Berlin from the 12th for about two weeks when we were taken to France to get on the submarine.

“Q      When you left Berlin, was your group furnished with any explosives?

“A      Yes, we had four boxes.

“Q      Describe these boxes.    

“A      They were wooden boxes and the size of each was about 18 inches wide and about that high, and a yard long.

“Q      How much did these boxes weigh?

“A      They were different weights, I would say one weighed about 70 pounds and the others about half as much, although they were the same size.

“Q      Now describe your trip from Berlin from the time you got on the submarine and who went along with you?

“A      The one fellow we dealt with and us four went on the train to Paris, where we stayed overnight in a hotel, and from there went on to a port where the submarine was anchored at the side of a ship, which was tied up at a pier.

“Q      Did you have these boxes of explosives with you at the time?

“A      Yes, they were on the train and they were taken at this point by a car to the submarine.

“Q      Then, what time did you board the submarine for your departure to the United States?

“A      It was either on the 28th or 29th, I think, between 8 and 9 o’clock at night.

“Q      Did you receive any final instructions from the man who accompanied you from Berlin?

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“A      No, not exactly, there was only a farewell and that was all.    

“Q      Did you take any clothes with you when you got on the submarine?

“A      Yes, I had my own civilian clothes and I was also furnished with a soldier’s uniform to wear on the ship.

“Q      Describe this uniform.

“A      Gray pants and coat, the type that soldiers use for work, and a gray cap.  The cap was a regular Army cap having an eagle and a triangle.  Between the eagle and the triangle there was button, which we call the Cokardee.

“Q      Under whose command were you during the time you were on the submarine?

“A      We obeyed orders form the Captain.

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“Q      At any time during the trip, did you have a discussion with the Captain of the submarine regarding your duties in the United States?

“A      No.

“Q      Did he instruct you what to do?

“A      He was not supposed to know much, that was what I was told before I got to the submarine.  He had orders to put us ashore and that was all he had to do.  On the way we were to obey orders because he was going to fix the place where we were to be put ashore.

“Q      Aside from the Social Security card, the Selective Service card, and the money with which you were furnished, did you have any other papers, documents, of other secret writings in your possession when you left Germany?

“A      No.

“Q      How long a period of time did it take you to come to the United States from France?

“A      I should say two weeks.

“Q      Did you know the name of the port from where you sailed from France on the submarine?

“A      I was told it was near Bordeaux but I do not know the place, which was a very small village.  No number was on the submarine.

“Q      Do you recall on what day you arrived in the United States?

“A      Yes, Saturday, the 13th, at around 1:00 a.m.

“Q      Where did you land?

“A      On Long Island, near East Hampton.

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“Q      Now, what, in your own words, happened at the time the submarine approached the shore of Long Island?

“A      When we were told we were near, the Captain told us to get ready, which we did.  I was wearing a pair of dark blue swimming trunks with a white belt and dressed in the soldier’s uniform, although I left my cap on board the submarine.  The submarine came to the surface and about 14 men came out on deck.  We came out later.  When we came up, there was a rubber boat ready waiting for us and two sailors were in the rubber boat and on to it was fixed a tow line which was hooked to the submarine so it could be pulled back after we had been landed.  We stepped into the boat and the Captain wished us good luck and we rowed ashore.  The boxes were already in the boat when we got into it.  I would say that the submarine was between a half mile and a mile from shore.

“Q      Were you, Henry, George, and Pete all wearing the same type of clothes when you landed on the shore of Long Island?

“A      Yes.

“Q      How many sailors accompanied you during this landing?

“A      Two.

“Q      Did they return to the submarine?

“A      Yes.

“Q      What did you do when you got on shore?

“A      We carried the boxes on shore and changed our clothes.  The uniforms were being put in a sack and one fellow took the sack to the boat in order that it might

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be taken back to the ship.  Pete came back right away and said George had talked with a watchman but he said to go on ahead.  So, we took the boxes and carried them up further form the beach in a hurry and just buried them there.

“Q      Prior to your landing from the submarine, had you made up your mind as to what you would do with the explosives contained in these boxes?

“A      yes, we made up our minds to bury them at a place which was to be selected.

“Q      For this purpose, then, did you have any tools to be used in burying these boxes?

“A      Yes, we had shovels.

“Q      Describe those shovels.

“A      They were trench shovels, short handles and a cross bar on top of them.

“Q      How many boxes did you carry from the boat to the place where you buried them?

“A      I carried two.

“Q      How many boxes were there?

“A      Four.

“Q      There were the same boxes you put in the submarine when you departed from France, is that correct?

“A      Yes.

“Q      Were the uniforms you were wearing taken back to the submarine by the sailors?

“A      No, one of the fellows had the sack and was taking it back, and he came back and said that George was talking to a watchman and, therefore, I do not know

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whether these uniforms were taken back as we planned.

“Q      Do you recall whether or not any of your group were wearing these Army caps at the time you landed on the beach?

“A      I don’t recall that.

“Q      Can you state whether or not in your rowing from the submarine to the beach, you lost any of the oars?

“A      That may be, but I don’t know.

“Q      Did anyone meet you on the beach to assist you in landing?

“A      No.

“Q      After you made the landing, did you change your clothes on the beach?

“A      Yes, we changed into our civilian clothes on the beach.

“Q      After you had made the landing and changed your clothes on the beach, were did you go?

“A      We went up on the beach with the boxes and buried them there and then we walked toward the road and there stayed until all four of us were together.

“We kept on walking and walked toward, what seemed to be a village.  Some place we sat down and waited until it got a little light and then we made out where to go.  We went on to Amagansett, I think it was the next stop to East Hampton, and we waited for a train and got on.

“Q      Where did you wait for this train?

“A      At the station.

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“Q      Describe the rout you took from the beach to Amagansett.

“A      From the beach, there was a road which we hit first.  There was shrubbery along this road and we walked along behind it.  We then walked across a stretch of land until we hit what seemed to be a farm road.  We followed this road which was landing us away from the beach.  There we stopped awhile and waited for it to get light and kept on walking along this road until we hit a concrete road.  We took this to the left toward New York.  There we switched off one more and went through a side road and hit the railroad tracks.  We followed the railroad tracks to a little railroad station in Amagansett where we stayed unit a train came along.

“Q      Had you ever been in this vicinity on Long Island during the time you were in the United States before?

“A      No.

“Q      Were you acquainted with the vicinity?

“A      No.  I was near that vicinity while fishing once, but I think it was further toward New York.  I don’t know the stations at all.

“Q      Were some of your companions acquainted with this area?

“A      Yes, George seemed to know.

“Q      What was the condition of the weather on the night you landed?

“A      It was very foggy out, you could only see ten or fifteen yards.  At times, you could see more.  In the morning it was nice.

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“Q      What time was it when you landed?

“A      I think it was around one o’clock in the morning, on Saturday, June 13, 1942.

“Q      At what time did you leave Amagansett?

“A      At about seven o’clock by train.

“Q      Did you purchase your tickets in the stations, and who paid from them, and what was your destination?

“A      Our destination was Jamaica, and George bought all four of them in the station.

“Q      Did anyone stop you from the time you left the shore and the time you arrived at the station?

“A      No, no one stopped us.

“Q      Did you see anyone?

“A      No.

“Q      After you had buried the boxes and proceeded to the station, at any time did you and your comrades have any discussion about returning to boxes?

“A      Yes, we spoke about getting the boxes sometime but it was not decided upon because after meeting the watchman there we were not sure whether it would turn out all right.  So, we just left them there, but there was no definite arrangement as to what we would do with those boxes.

“Q      At what time did you arrive in Jamaica and what did you do?

“A      I think we arrived in Jamaica around 9:30, and we got off at the station.  We separated and each bought a little clothes.  I bought a pair of slacks and a shirt right near the Jamaica station in a little store.

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I put them on and threw my old clothes that were wrapped in a bundle in a waste can.

“Q      At the time you were changing clothes on the beach or any time thereafter, did anyone mention to you that they had lost a vest?

“A      No.

“Q      What arrangements were made for meeting again while you were in Jamaica?

“A      Well, that we should be at Grant’s Tomb on certain days, on Saturdays and Wednesdays I believe it was.

“Q      Did you, Henry, Pete, and George agree where you were to stay in New York City?

“A      No, we did not.  We just split up, two by two.  I went with Henry and Pete went with George.

“Q      At what time did you part in Jamaica?

“A      We parted at 9:30, right after we arrived.

“Q      Then what did you do?

“A      Well, Henry and I stayed together and we got on the subway and went over to New York.  Then I bought a suitcase at Macy’s.  We had something to eat and went to the Hotel Martinique, where we registered.

“Q      Under what name did you register at this hotel?

“A      Richard Quintas from Albany.

“Q      Do you recall the number of the room where you stayed?

“A      No, I don’t.

“Q      Since you have been in New York, you and Henry have stayed in the same room together, is that correct?

900

“A      Yes.

“Q      Were there ever any arrangements made that you and Henry should stay at the Chesterfield?

“A      Yes, I think George mentioned something like that but I didn’t want to look around for it.  We happened to be at the Pennsylvania Station and this was a close hotel and we just stopped in there, that’s all.

“Q      What was the reason you left the Martinique Hotel?

“A      Because it was too expensive and we wanted to find a cheaper room.

“Q      Were you successful in finding a room?      

“A      Yes, we looked up the papers and went up to 76th Street and took a room in a rooming house at 149 West 76th Street and we intended to remain there quite sometime.

“Q      How did you spend your time during the day?

“A      Well, Henry and I were together most of the time.  We walked most of the time, stopped in to have something to eat, we went to a show, that’s about all.

“Q      After you parted in Jamaica, the four of you, when was the next time that you were all together?  

“A      Last Sunday, we met at Grant’s Tomb, the four of us were together.  We had made an agreement in Jamaica when we parted that we would meet at Grant’s Tomb at 6:00 o’clock in the evening.

“Q      What conversation did you have or enter into at this time? “A      Well, we just walked along.  We didn’t talk

901

much at all except that George said he was going to leave town maybe, but he didn’t know what time or when he was going to leave.  There was nothing much said.  He and Pete left us then.

“Q      How long were you together?

“A      About at quarter of an hour, that’s all.

“Q      Did you have any other meetings after the one just mentioned?

“A      Yes, Henry and I met Pete several times.

“Q      Can you fix the days on which you met him?

“A      I recall now that I met Pete on the following day at which time Henry was with me and I am quite sure I met him on Tuesday, June 16, at which time I gave him our new address.  I don’t remember what we did.  He said it was good to be with us because he was all by himself and that is that reason he came to see us so often.  We went out and had dinner together and stayed together for a little while in a restaurant and them parted.  On Wednesday we met again, June 17, at which time we bought a suit at Rogers Peet and he told us it would be ready on Saturday at three o’clock.  We arranged to meet there Saturday, June 20, at three o’clock to get these suits.

“Q      Do you recall the day when Pete gave you his address?

“A      I believe it was on Wednesday, June 17, when he gave his room number and said he was staying at the Governor Clinton Hotel.  I think the room was #1421.

“Q      During any of these meetings you had with Pete at the time Henry was usually with you, did you discuss

902

or formulate any plans in connection with the instructions you received in Germany before you came to the Untied States?

“A      No, we made no plans at all.  When we met, it was for the purpose of getting our minds off of things and just talking; going around and just eating together and then parting.  That’s all there was to it.  We wanted to lay low for awhile.

“Q      Did you ever discuss what might happen to you in case you were caught or discovered?

“A      Yes, we thought about it.  We did discuss what would become of us in case we got caught but we didn’t find any definite answer on that, you know.

“Q      What did you think about that?

“A      Well, we where hoping not to be caught.

“Q      When you though about being caught, what did you think?

“A      Well, I thought it would all be over.

“Q      Would you consider yourself a spy in this country?

“A      I don’t know.

“Q      Well, what do you consider yourself?

“A      Well, -- nothing in particular.

“Q      You were over here to work for Germany, where you not?

“A      Yes.

“Q      At the time you entered the United States in the manner in which you did, there was no doubt in your mind but what you were violating the law?

          903

“A      No.    

“Q      Do you consider yourself an agent of Germany?

“A      Well, something like that.

“Q      As a matter of fact, you promised your superiors in Germany that you would carry out their instructions in the United States, is that correct?

“A      Yes.

“Q      When you left Germany, wasn’t it your intention to come to the Untied States and carry out your instructions?

“A      Yes, it was.

“Q      Would you have carried out your instructions in the event you had not been apprehended?

“A      I might have.  I’m not sure.

“Q      As a matter of fact, you feel that your loyalty is to Germany, isn’t that correct?

“A      Yes.

“Q      In the event Germany emerged victorious from this war, did you receive any instructions as to what you were to do?

“A      No definite instructions, be we were supposed to come back to Germany where I would be given a better job and be well cared for.

“Q      Sometime ago I asked you concerning the training you received with incendiary pencils, do you recall now whether you received any such training?

“A      Yes.

“Q      Will you describe the training that you received in connection with these pencils?

904

“A      I know you could use them to start a fire with them, but I don’t know exactly how it worked any more.  I may recall it I don’t know.

“Q      Did you experiment with these pencils when you were being trained on the farm, or have them demonstrated to you?

“A      They were shown to us and explained to us, but I did not experiment with them.

“Q      But you did actually see one burn, is that correct?

“A      I did not see one burn.

“Q      In connection with the explosives which you brought with you on the submarine, do you know whether there were any incendiary pencils contained therein?

“A      I did not actually see them put in the boxes, but I was told they were in the boxes.    

“Q      In connection with the pencils which you were told would be in these boxes, explain the instructions you received in connection with their use.

“A      You will take the pencil apart and connect it some how so that it would burn through a plate and the acid into another part and then it would ignite. 

“Q      At the time you were told about these incendiary pencils, were any suggestions made as to the use to which they were to be put?

“A      To start a fire in some place which was making war materials, such as warehouses, factories, etc.

“Q      In connection with your instructions relative to these pencils, were to told the length of time that

905

would elapse before the pencil would burst into flame after it was adjusted for use?

“A      They told us the time was very indefinite because it depended on the temperature.  Sometimes it might take half an hour, sometimes it might take an hour or even two hours.

The President.  Will you pause, please?  We will take a recess of five minutes. 

(Whereupon a brief recess was had, at the conclusion of which the following occurred:) 

906

The President.  The afternoon will be resumed.  The Commission is now opened.

Colonel Munson.  The personnel of the Commission, of the prosecution, and of the defense, all sight of the accused, and the reporter are present.

The witness is on the stand and is reminded that he is still under oath.

The President.  It is now 3:38 p.m.  We shall adjourn at 4: 30 today in view of the remarks of the defense counsel.

Proceed.

(The reading of the statement of the defendant Quirin was resumed as follows:)

The witness (reading):

“Q.     In other words, they told you that these pencils were to be used to sabotage warehouses and factories producing war materials, is that correct?

“A.     Yes.

“Q.     I show you a vest and I ask you if you have ever seen it before.

“A.     Yes, that is my vest.

“Q.     Examine this vest and please state how you can identify it as being your vest.

“A.     By the color which is brown; there is a tear on the right side near the bottom in the back.  These was a cleaning tag on the tip of the vest on the right side which I tore off, and there remains several stitches on the inside of the vest.

“Q.     When do you last recall having this vest in your possession?

907

“A.     It was, I believe, in the sack where we had our clothes when we got off the submarine.        

“Q.     You have previously stated that you changed clothes on the beach after you landed on Long Island, do you recall losing the vest at that time?

“A.     I put my clothes on in a hurry and I did not think of the vest at all at the time, and upon seeing this vest, this is the first time I knew that I lost it.

“Q.     Did you have a suit that matched this vest?

“A.     Exactly.

“Q.     Do you recall where this suit was purchased?

“A.     At Crawford’s, I think it was on 86th Street.

“Q.     Did you buy this suit prior to your return to Germany in 1939?

“A.     Yes, I bought it several years before I returned to Germany.

“Q.     Can you fix approximately the year when you bought this suit?

“A.     Not exactly; I had it, I think, three years.

“Q.     Prior to your departure from Germany, were you instructed to obtain some of your clothes which you had purchased in the Unites States to take with you and to war at the time you landed in the United States on the submarine?

“A.     Yes, we were told to wear our clothes that we had brought from the United States when we came back to Germany in 1939.

“Q.     Would you give as your reason for not missing

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your vest at the time, due to the fact that you became frightened when George was stopped by the watchman on the beach?

“A.     Yes, we dressed very hurriedly because we were frightened and afraid we might get caught.

“Q.     Did either George, Pete, or Henry ever tell you that they also lost something at the time they landed on the beach?

“A.     Yes.  I believe George said something about losing a notebook.

“Q.     Did he tell you what was in the notebook?

“A.     No.

“Q.     Did you ever see the notebook?

“A.     I don’t recall it.

“Q.     Do you know anything of the contents of this notebook?

“A.     No.

“Q.     Prior to your departure from Germany, were you ever given any names of people to contact in the Untied States, or did you give them the names of any persons that you might contact?

“A.     No.

“Q.     Since your arrival in the United States on Saturday, June 13, 1942, have you talked to or seen any of your old acquaintances in this country?

“A.     No.

“Q.     Have you any relatives living in the United States at the present time?

“A.     Yes, I had, but, they are dead. 

909

“Q.     And, their names were?

“A.     Ernest Wigleb.  His wife's first name was Emma, of Schnectady, New York, but buried in Albany, New York.

“Q.     At the time you were in Germany, were you instructed how to make incendiary material and where to obtain the same?

“A.     Yes, we were taught something about this, which I have forgotten.

“Q.     Where did they expect you to secure this type of material?

“A.     Most of it could be bought in drug stores.

“I have read this statement consisting of 29 pages, and have had the same read to me.  I have signed each page of this statement and state that the same is true to the best of my knowledge and belief.  This statement was given to me on June 20, 21, and 22, 1942.

(Signed)       “Richard Quirin

“RICHARD QUIRIN

(Signed)       “R. Quirin.

 

“WITNESSES:

(Signed) “B. F. Wiand.

“B. F. Wiand, Special Agent

“Federal Bureau of Investigation

“United States Department of Justice

607 U. S. Court House

Foley Square, New York, New York.

 

(Signed) “H. G. Foster

“H. G. Foster, Special Agent

“Federal Bureau of Investigation

“United States Department of Justice

607 U. S. Court House

Foley Square, New York, New York.”

910

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       I show you Exhibit P-150 and ask you if that is the statement you took on June 25, 1942.

A        Yes, sir, it is.

Q       Is it signed by Quirin at the end?

A        Yes, sir.

Q       How is it signed?

A        Richard Quirin--Q-u-i-r-i-n.

Q       Is each page signed?

A        Yes, it is.

Q       How is each page signed?

A        "R. Quirin."

Q       Are there corrections in ink?

A        Yes, I believe there are.
Q       Who made those corrections?

A        Those corrections were made by the defendant Quirin, at which time he initialed them.

Q       Were those statements read in your presence?

A        He read them aloud in my presence.

Colonel Royall.  I should like permission of the Commission to interrogate the witness about the circumstances under which this statement was taken.

The Attorney General.  That is satisfactory to me.

PRELIMINARY EXAMINATION

Questions by Colonel Royall:

Q       Mr. Wiand, what happened between the time the first statement was signed by the defendant Quirin and the beginning of the preparation of the second statement?

A        During the time I had talked with the defendant

911

Quirin, at which time he gave me additional information that was not contained in the original statement.

Q       Were there any other statements except these two?     

A        From the defendant Quirin?

Q       Yes.

A        The statement that I just read was originally taken, at which time there were some statements made in there that he said were not true, so we started over and made the statement to his liking, and he said the statements in the new statement were true.

Q       Where is the first statement?

A        The first statement we did not complete.  We did not read it all to him, because he said that was all a lie.  He didn't want to hear anything about it, so we started a new statement.

Q       Where is that?

A        I don't know.

Q       Are these two statements the only ones you have?

A        No, I have a third statement.

Q       What is the date of it?

A        July 3.

Q       Mr. Wiand, did you, prior to the beginning of the preparation of this statement of June 25, or at any time during its preparation, state to the defendant Quirin that he would fare better with the Court if he made that statement, or did you make any similar remark to him?

A        I made no promise whatsoever to the defendant Quirin in obtaining these statements.

Q       That was not what I asked you.  I asked you, did you make any statement that he would fare better with the Court or

912

get better treatment if he made this statement.

A        I said this to the defendant Quirin:  I explained to him that as an agent of the F.B.I. it was my duty to collect facts in this case and that I would appreciate his cooperation in giving me those facts, and when that statement was read, it would show for itself that he had cooperated to that extent.  That is what I told the defendant Quirin, but I made him no promises whatsoever.

Q       I will ask you a third time, did you tell him he would fare better with the Court or receive better treatment, or make some similar statement, if he would make the statement you requested?

A        No, sir; I didn't tell him he would fare better with the Court.

Q       Did you suggest that he might?

A        No, sir, I didn't.

Q       Who were present when this second statement was taken?

A        I was present during the entire time the statement was taken, and Special Agent H. G. Foster was present at the time the defendant read it aloud.

Q       Was any other agent present?

A        The stenographer who took it was present.

Colonel Royall.  All right, sir.  Those are all the preliminary questions I desire to ask.

The President.  Colonel Ristine?

Colonel Ristine.  No, I have no questions.

DIRECT EXAMINATION--Resumed

Questions by the Attorney General:

Q       All right.  Will you please read the statement?

913

(Exhibit P-150 was offered in evidence.)

 

A        (Reading)

 

“Exhibit P-150

New York, New York

June 25, 1942

“I, Richard Quirin, make the following statement to supplement the statement I gave on June 21, 22, and 23, 1942, to Special Agent B. F. Wiand, whom I know to be an agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.  I make this statement voluntarily and on my own free will realizing that I do not have to make the same and that it may be used as evidence in a court of law.

“I was born in Berlin, Germany, on April 26, 1908.  I do not remember my father's name, but my mother's name was Helen Quirin so I took her family name.  As a boy I lived in Berlin until I was twelve years old and attended school there.  This school had no particular name; it was a public school and I studied the regular subjects receiving average grades.  I was a little over fourteen years old when I finished school.

“Up to this time, I lived with my foster parents Ernst Tartsch.  My mother had left me with them when I was about two years old.  I do not remember my foster mother's name, but my foster father Ernst Tartsch worked as a machinist near Berlin.  My foster father died when I was around nine years old, and when I was twelve years old, I went to Hanover, Germany, to live with my mother. 

“My mother owns a small apartment and she has always made her living from the

914

money she receives from renting these apartments.  I went to school in Hanover until I was fourteen years old and then I went to work for the Schultz Machine Company, where I made 35 to 40 marks a week, working as a machinist helper.  I worked here until 1926 when I could not get any work in Germany so I went to work on a farm where I worked for about a year, when I decided to come to the United States.

“I received the money to come to the United States from my uncle Emil Quirin, who is now dead, but then worked as a customs agent on the border between France and Germany at different cities.  He gave me 600 marks, which I later paid back.  I then went to Bremen to the American Consul's office and got my papers and I had received an affidavit from my uncle Ernst Wigleb who married my mother's sister and lived in Schenectady, New York.  I left Bremen, Germany, October 17, 1927, on the SS York making a third class passenger, arriving in the United States at New York City under the immigration quota.  I paid my head tax at the pier in New York.  My uncle met me at the boat on my arrival in this country and took me to Schenectady, New York.

“It was not quite a week when I started to work as a tinsmith helper.  I think the man's name was Blair and he had a tin shop in Schenectady.  He paid me $26 a week while I was with him but I did not stay with him more than two or three months.  After my job as a helper with the tinsmith, I went to work for the Central

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Electric Company in Schenectady, New York.  No one helped me get this job, I got it myself.  I did not speak English very well when I came to Schenectady so I went to a night school which was teaching people to speak English.  I think it was run in connection with a high school.  I went there three or four months. It was after I learned to speak better English that I got this job with General Electric.

“My uncle in Schenectady was a sculptor and later had his own business and he had a brother who lived in Amsterdam, New York named Wigleb.  I worked for the General Electric Company about three years as a mechanic repairing machines.  I worked in the Maintenance Department and we took care of the machinery and made the parts for them.  I did not receive any advancement but made $40 a week and sometimes more for overtime.  I continued to work as a tool maker.  I was laid off in 1930 because of the depression and after I was laid off, I stayed in Schenectady for several months until my unemployment money ran out, then I came to New York.  When I came to New York, I got a room between Brook and Willis Avenues on 138th Street in Bronx, New York.  I tried to find work and I met a fellow who lived at this rooming house, whose first name I recall as Rudolph and he was a painter.  He asked me if I would like to learn to paint and I told him that I wanted some work and later he got me a job painting.

“He took me to his boss a Mr. Simon and I worked for him for about a half a year.  Some weeks I would

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work four or five days and other weeks more, and I received $4.50 a day but I started out making $3 a day.  After that I looked for other jobs, most of them were painting.  One job that I remember is that we painted in the Biltmore Hotel.  While I was painting, I also worked for a Mr. Fraystadt.  These people I worked for had no offices but would hire me when they needed a painter and I received my pay on the job.

“Between 1930 and 1938, I worked at various odd jobs, most of them painting.  I did have one job with the Multi-Needle Company for a while and we made these big quilting machines that made quilts.  This place was located near the 59th Street Bridge in Long Island.  I left there because there was no more work. 

“In 1936 I met my wife, whose maiden name was Anna Sesselmann.  She came from Germany in 1930.  I do not know what boat she came over on.  I married her in 1937, and she had worked as a cook and doing general house work before I married her.  We advertised in the paper for work and later we were employed by a Mr. W. J. Rauch.  He had a large home up in Chappaqua in Westchester County.  Both me and my wife worked for Mr. Rauch until she returned to Germany in 1939.  I worked as a chauffeur and took care of the yard and did odd jobs around the house and she took care of the housework.  We first got $110 a month and our room and board, and then he raised us to $125 a month.

“When I was in Schenectady, I think it was in 1929, I applied for my citizenship papers and received my

917

first papers.  I never did become a citizen because I was not sure I was going to stay in the United States.  My wife never became a citizen either.

“I used to go to Yorkville frequently when we lived in New York and one time I went to a meeting of the Friends of New Germany and they handed me a card and I signed it and I became a member.  I think this was in 1933 and I remained a member for about two years.  I was a member of the Order Group and I bought myself a uniform, which I wore at meetings and to and from them.  I never paraded in this uniform.  The only people that I can remember was one fellow named Willie Mottice, and the leader of this Order Group named Hauptner.  The fellow who told me to join the Order Group was a fellow named Sand - something, I think it was Sandman.  We had out meetings in Kreutzer Hall and I never attended any of the camps and I was not an officer and did not have any rank. 

“I understood the purpose of the Friends of New Germany was for the German born people here to get together, and I think the idea was to help elect presidents of the United States and perhaps to start a movement to get people to know about politics and to learn about the New Germany and make them feel toward Germany that they were building up, etc.  It was also to make friends for New Germany and I do not know if they received help from the German Government.  About 1934, they were having a lot of trouble because some of the members thought some of the officers were

          918

using the money and there were also rumors going around that people who were not citizens should not belong to this organization.

“I went to the German Consulate office in New York City to see about this and I talked to a man there whose name I do not know.  He told me that German citizens were not to belong to such organizations and told me to go to the organization and get a paper showing that I had resigned.  I did this and brought the paper back to him.  He told me if I would bring this paper back I could be a member of the Nazi Party.  He also told me that the Party was not official in this country and the reason that I should belong to it was that if I returned to Germany, I would immediately become a member.  It cost me $3 to join and I signed some papers at the Consulate office.  All I did was sign the papers, he did not ask me a lot of questions.  I never attended any meetings of this Party in the United States, in fact they never had any meetings that I know of because the Consul told me that there was nothing of this sort going on.

“The only other club I belonged to in New York was a soccer club, the Kelping Society.  It is a Catholic Society up in Yorkville somewhere.  I am not a Catholic myself and do not attend church, but my wife does and sometimes goes.  I belonged to this around 1927.  This club was merely for young fellows to get together and play soccer and we used to play on a field near the East River.  I think this club house was located between

919

3rd and Lexington Avenues and near 89th Street.

“I used to read the newspapers put out by the Friends of New Germany, named ‘Deutsches Zeitung.’

“Since coming to the United States in 1927, I never made any trips back to Germany.  The only correspondence I had was with my family over there and then my wife wrote the letters.  I heard rumors in 1939 that the German Consulate was paying the way back to Germany for men who had a trade.  My wife was homesick and she wanted to go back to Germany and I also wanted to return to Germany for I thought a lot of the German Government and thought it would do a lot for Germany and I sympathized with it.  I went to the German Consulate in New York City and told him I wanted to return to Germany and had heard that they were paying peoples' ways back to Germany if they were mechanics.  He told me that the German Government would pay my way back to Germany and that I could go back on the SS Bremen in July of 1939, and they would also pay my wife's way but she was sick so I paid her way and she went back in May of 1939.  There were no arrangements made for me to repay the money.  When my wife left, I did not continue to live with Mr. Rauch.  I went to live with Henry Best in Mount Vernon, New York.  He was a painter and I did work for him at one time.  He was a friend of ours.  Mr. Rauch offered to let me stay with him but I though it best to leave because he had to have other people and I stayed with Mr. Best.

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“Mr. Rauch gave me some work to do in the line of painting and he had a house in Jersey, a summer house, which he used for boating.  I cleaned it up and painted it for them to move in.  The only conversation I had with Mr. Rauch concerning Germany and my views was one time he wanted to know what I thought of Germany, and we discussed it as everyone else did in those days.

“The Consulate gave me my ticket to return to Germany on the BREMEN, I think a few days prior to the sailing.  I left New York City on July of 1939 on this ship.  Before I left I bought rueckwanderer marks with the money I had, at which time I said it was my intention to stay in Germany.  The ticket I received for the trip was a regular ticket and I went third class, landing in Bremen, Germany.

“On my arrival in Germany I, with several more people that had made the trip with me, were met by a representative of the German Labor Front.  We went to a hotel in Bremen where I was interviewed by a man and he asked me what my trade was and where I would like to work.  I told him that I would like to work in Braunschweig, Germany, because my wife had a nephew there named Alfonse Hummer.  I also knew that this was where the factory was located that made the People’s Car.  This factory is the Volkswagenwerk.  I stayed in the hotel that night with others who were there the same night I was and it did not cost us anything.  The man told me to be at the Volkswagenwerk on a certain day if I could and I went on to meet my wife at her

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home in Kulmbach, Germany, where she was with her folks, Mr. and Mrs. Jacob Sesselmann.  My wife and I stayed with them about a week and then we took a little trip around Germany and then went to Volkswagenwerk at Braunschweig.

“I saw the boss at the factory.  I did not know where I was supposed to work but I knew everything had been arranged.  I was assigned to work at Volkswagenwerk and was told to go to Volkswagenwerk where a man would show my wife and I some apartments.  These apartments belonged to the factory and he showed us some and we picked out one that had a living room, bed room, kitchen, and bath and rented for 35 marks per month.  The cheapest of these apartments was 32 marks and the highest was 65 marks.  We paid our own gas and electricity.  These amounted to about 14 marks a month.  I did not sign a lease for the apartment and I could only keep it as long as I worked for the factory.

“In the living room, there was a rug, and the rest of the furniture consisted of a couch, four chairs, a table and a china closet.  In the kitchen was a regular gas stove with two burners and the other side was for coal.  There was no ice box and no refrigerator, but cold running water and a shower in the bath room.  The construction of the walls was of plaster and painted, with no wall paper.  There were no floor lamps but there were regular curtains.  There were no blinds or black-out curtains.

“When the war started, however, we were told to buy black paper to put up against the windows.  There were

922

wooden varnished floors in the apartment and there were four apartments to a building, two floors and the constructions was of stucco.  I heated my apartment with stoves in every room.

923

“The fuel was ordered from a coal man for about 300 or 400 pounds, the coal was 10 marks.  The coal was rationed after the war started but we could still get enough and it was possible to keep one room at least warm during the winter.

“We had electric lights in the apartment and in the bedroom there were two beds and two little tables with lights on them.  In the kitchen there was just a table, two chairs, a place for putting dishes, a cabinet, and a sink.  Not all the people in Volkswagenwerk lived in places like this.  Only people from out of town.  I think this city, Braunschweig, had a population of about 180,000 and I would say around 10,000 worked at this plant.

“I signed a membership card for the Labor Front when I started to work.  The dues were according to your earnings.  I made 350 to 400 marks a month and my dues were 4 marks a month.  In regard to sick benefits or retirement reductions, when I make 350 marks they would take out something like 60 marks a month and it covered sick benefits, old age pensions, and taxes.

“After the war started, there was some rationing.  A person gets a half a pound of butter a week, about a pound of meat, which is not cut down but if you work in a factory longer than eight hours, you are allowed a little more and you could get an extra card for more meat; you could have about four loaves of bread a week and all the potatoes you wanted.  Sugar, I don’t know.  My wife did the marketing, but she got about a half a pound a week, I think.  Fruits and vegetables were scarce.  Whenever

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they came in, they were divided among regular customers of the store.  At first only three cigarettes were allowed to a person, then six and in some places ten a day.

“Automobiles could only be used for business.  The people are not exactly discontent.  Of course, they do not like to work such long hours but they think it is necessary on account of the war.  I worked in the factory from six in the morning until six at night with one hour off for lunch.  That was the usual shift.  The factory didn’t work 24 hours a day.  I made jigs and tools and the factory produced tools to build cars.  No trucks or airplanes were built here.  The cars had four cylinders and I think 25 horsepower.  The first cars were closed but now they are starting to make open cars, the kind where you leave the top down.

“At the factory we wore identification badges which had the insignias of the factory and a number but no picture.  We were allowed to go freely through the plant but wore certain colors, the foreman had certain colors and the workers had other colors.  My boss was Eugene Getner.  He has never been in the United States.

“The instructions we received in relation to an air raid was to go to the shelter.  There was no particular place built for this purpose and we went through the long halls and then down to the basement where there were wash rooms and we had our lockers.  This place was used as a shelter in case of an air raid.  I don’t know whether the city of Braunschweig had air raid shelters or not.

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“The construction of the plant in which I worked was of concrete, having very large windows on top and the sides.  We did not have to have electric lights by day but used light only early in the morning when we started to work at about six o’clock as it was still dark then.  At that time they had blinds on the top windows and side windows, which were pulled, so that no light would come out.  We had no air raid drills, but fellows were assigned to keep order in case of air raids.

“In case we didn’t show up for work, we could be out for one day without notifying the plant.  We did not have individual telephone numbers in our apartments but there was a public booth at the corner that we used.  I had no radio because they were too expensive.  I brought a small one from America with me but it was no good and I did not use it.  My radio was not examined on my arrival and we were not required to listen to certain programs.  However, there were certain restrictions and we could only listen to German programs.

“We brought our lunch to work with us and had an hour for it, eating in the hall provided for that purpose.  You could buy hot meals there too.  We were given hot barley coffee with milk but with no sugar, I don’t think.  It was weaker coffee than they used in this country.  We could not get any additional milk at the plant but at home we could buy about a quart a day, depending on the number of children in the family.  I had one child named Rosemarie, who was born on October 4, 1940.  You could buy beer as much as you wanted, but it was much lighter and

926

not as intoxicating, with much less alcohol.  Soap was rationed too.  I don’t know how much was allowed.  Cans of vegetables were scarce.  Toothpaste was easy to get and we were required to save the tubes.  There was no ice cream at all but they had ices.  We were given eggs according to the supply but never more than six per person per week.  In the spring and summer there were more, in the winter less.

“In relation to entertainment, we could do as we pleased except dancing which was not permitted.  They had picture shows which were regular movies similar to the ones they show in this country.  Transportation on the railroads was only restricted on weekends and holidays when the workers at the plants wanted to return to their homes.

“I received two weeks’ vacation every year and was allowed to travel and receive pay for my vacations.  During one time when I was sick, I received compensation from the sick benefit fund, which I would say was about 65% of my pay.  The doctor was free and if I needed hospital treatment, they would have furnished that free, and then my wife would get money to live on if I stayed home.  There were no particular regulations about being on the streets at night.  There were guards at the factory to watch the doors and it was fenced in but there were no soldiers.  They had some Italian laborers working on the factory enlarging it, and I believe a few French war prisoners.

“When I first went to work for Volkswagenwerk, I

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became acquainted with a fellow I knew as Henry Heinck.  He also has used the name of Henry Kaynar.  He ran a drilling machine and worked at the same place I did in this factory.

“I think it was in February, Walter Kappe came to Volkswagenwerk and made a speech to all the people who had come back to Germany from the United States.  I had heard about him in the United States and that he was a speaker and he talked to us and told us that we probably were not content with the conditions there but that if we would just be content for a little while, conditions would get better or something like that.  He also said that people would like it better as they went along.  I did not talk to him personally that night.

“On the next day Henry came to me and told me that he had heard that they were looking for some fellows that would go on a trip to America to do some work in connection with the war for Germany.  I said I would think it over and that I thought that I would be interested.  I think it was in April that Henry showed me a letter from Walter Kappe and it had my name in the letter telling us to come to a certain farm which was located near a lake in a little town called Brandenburg.  Henry and I took the letter to the office at Volkswagenwerk and asked them if we could get off to go.  They said that they would see and a little later they told us it would be all right and that we could go.  The letter told us to bring some sporting clothes and to report at this farm on a certain date.  I went on to Berlin to visit

928

my mother and I stayed there and left in time to get to the farm on the date I was suppose to be there.  On the way to the farm, when I got off the bus, I met Henry at the bus stop and we went to the farm on a lake called Quinz Lake.

“When we got there, there was no one there.  We were the first ones and we gave him our names and he showed us our rooms and we put our stuff in the rooms and then we went out and walked around the farm.  Later in the day Kappe came to the farm and met us, telling us to stick around the place and take it easy until the rest of the boys arrived.  They came in the next few days, one or two at the same time.  I think there were nine that arrived and their names are Scotty, Henry Heinck, Pete Burger, George Dasch, Eddie, Herman, Bill and Jerry Swenson.  I think Herman’s or Bill’s last name was Nicholas or something like that.  I cannot remember the other’s last name, and Scotty left in a short time.

“I think we arrived on Tuesday and during this week the other fellows were arriving and we just fooled around until Dr. Schultz and Dr. Koenig arrived on Monday.  I think this was around the middle of April.  Before Dr. Schultz and Dr. Koenig arrived, Kappe talked to all of us saying we were to be instructed in explosives and were being sent over to America to do some sabotage work, although he did not say how we were to be sent to America.  A few days later he mentioned that we were to go on a submarine.  He said that this work was on part of the war and some had to got to the front and some had to do other things and that this would be important and

929

help Germany win the war.  This was the only time he spoke to us when we were in a group before Dr. Schultz and Dr. Koenig arrived on Monday to instruct us.  At that time he introduced them to us telling us that they were to instruct us in the use of explosives.

“I don’t know exactly what this farm was used for but one day I was talking to a farmer and he told me that they were just keeping up the place and at one time there had been German pioneer troops there training.  The German pioneer troops are the ones who go ahead of the soldiers, tear up mine fields, and prepare the way for them.

“On this farm we lived in one building, which was a regular farm house and there was another building there which appeared to be a garage on top of which there was the school, and there were what looked like two old barracks and some other farm buildings there but we only used the farm house in which I slept and the garage where they had the classes.  On the second floor of this garage there were tables, benches and a small chemical laboratory.  We used a small part of the grounds on this farm, which was close to this garage and in one place they had a big hole dug where you could set off explosives and the stuff would not fly around. 

“The next few days we had school, only a few hours a day, and they explained to us what an explosion is, and what a detonation is and theoretical things about explosives, and they told us that this part of the work did not amount to much; it would just give us an idea of what it was all about. 

930

“Toward the end of the week they explained to us certain explosives.  They mentioned dynamite, nitroglycerin, TNT, and black powder was in the fuses that we were to use.

“This schooling started about the middle of April, 1942 and, altogether, we received about three weeks of schooling.  They gave us different formulas and told us how to make explosives.  Then we made these explosives from these formulas and experimented with them in blowing up things on the farm.  I remember that I blew up a stump.  I cannot remember any of these formulas but we made up explosives from them and they worked real well.

“During the school, they showed us some yellow blocks of explosive about six inches wide and eight inches long.  They told us this explosive was very stable, that you could drop it, saw it, drill holes in it and you could even burn it and that it would not explode.  They said it took a detonator to explode this yellow block which they told us was T.N.T., I think.  They also showed us an explosive that was black and looked like a lump of coal.  They told us that it was the same stuff as the yellow blocks and could be used in the same way.  They explained to use the different types of fuse, one of them was a white fuse that was to be used with the detonator caps.  They also explained another fuse to us that could be used to set off several charges at once.  This was a quick burning fuse and they told us that this would be the type of fuse to blow down an electric power line, that is, we could blow up all four posts at the

931

same time with just one blast.  They told us that the only time we would have to use this was when the legs of the tower were more than a yard apart.  They also told us in connection with the other fuse that a safe distance was one yard.  They explained to us about detonator caps.  They told us that they were very dangerous, and that you should not monkey around with them because they might go off.  They told us to be sure and crimp it with pliers when it was fastened to the fuse so that it would not slip off.

“I remember that they explained three kinds of caps to us.  One was an ordinary explosive cap which was hooked to a fuse.  Then there was another cap to be used for explosives that could be used only with a time clock which they showed us and which I will explain later.  This fuse fit into the time clock and at the time the clock was set it would explode.  They also showed us another cap that was to be used in connection with the time clock for incendiaries or setting off fires.  They also showed us some timing devices and one was a fourteen day clock and all you had to do was set it and place the fuse in it and put in the explosive.  These devices also had a metal tube that fit into them so that if you did not have the caps that were made for these clocks, you could use other caps.  Another timing device they showed us was by taking a watch and by hooking electric wires to the hands.  These wires were hooked up with batteries and bending the hands so that when they came together they would touch and this would set off the explosive.

932

“They showed us another one that was made up by using a tin can with a wire in the bottom of it and a hole punched in the bottom of the can.  Then you hooked a wire into a board or something that would float on top and then hook these wires with batteries and when water ran out of the can they would come together and set off the explosive.  I remember that they mentioned a way to make one by using dried peas and when water was put on then they would swell but I don’t remember exactly how it was made but I think it was something like the water can device.

933

“In connection with these devices, they were drawn for us on the blackboard by either Dr. Koenig or Dr. Schultz but I do not remember very much about them.  They also explained to us some incendiary devices used for starting fires.  One I remember was a pencil which looked like an ordinary pencil and we were told these were to be used on warehouses and places where war supplies were stored.  This pencil had two compartments in it having acid on one side and on the other side was another chemical that started a fire.  To use the pencil you unscrewed it, turned it over and then turned another screw that broke the glass so that acid could get to the metal plate, and then screwed it together again and placed it in whatever you wanted to set on fire.  They told us that these pencils would go off any time up to two hours and that it depended on the weather, whether it was hot or in what kind of room it was placed.  They also told us that we could use gasoline or benzene by pouring it on whatever we wanted to burn and then setting it off with a fuse.  They also gave us some instructions how to mix up some stuff to start fires and one of these was to mix some chemicals, I do not remember, with some sawdust wrap it up in a package and set it off with the fuse.  We made some of this stuff and experimented with it and it made a big fire. 

“I remember now in connection with the detonator caps, that one of the Doctors in explaining them, telling how powerful they were, put one in a small pipe, touched a fuse, and he lighted this fuse and it went off and

934

opened up the pipe.  In connection with the yellow blocks I have mentioned and the black lumps, the Doctors took us to this hole on the farm I have mentioned and showed us how to blow up a railroad rail.  They had a railroad rail there which was tied down with timbers and they instructed us that two pounds of this yellow stuff or the black stuff would be sufficient to blow up a rail, that that you should place it on the side of the rail, then drill a hole in it, fix a fuse cap, light it, and it would blow up the rail.  They did this, and after they lighted the fuse, we ran away until the explosion went off and then went back and looked at the rail and it had blown it in two and also blown a chunk out of it.  I remember that they also mentioned in connection with blowing up rails, that if you could fix a device so that the explosion would go off when the engine passed over it.  It was something that made contact when the engine ran over it and I remember you had to use a battery with it and some wires but I do not remember anything else about it.  They told us that two pounds was sufficient to blow up a railroad rail and that we should use this as a guide when we wanted to blow up anything else.

“In connection with our sabotage work in the United States, Kappe told us that we were to disable armament factories, airplane factories, factories where they made airplane parts and any factory that was making war materials.  We were to disable these factories by blowing up power lines and blowing up railroads which

935

were used by factories in getting their materials.  I remember that I asked George if they had told him any certain factories we were supposed to blow up and they may have mentioned some but if they did I do no remember and he told me that he would find out about that.

“When we were at this farm and experimenting in the fields with these explosives, they gave us a black outfit to wear, which had black trousers, black coat and black cap.  All other times we wore our own clothes.

“In connection with obtaining explosives in the United States, they told us that we could buy some of these chemicals that I cannot remember, in drug stores.

“They told us that another way we would sabotage things in the United States was by putting sand in oil boxes of trains and locomotives, and also by putting emery dust in those.

“In connection with our training at this farm, when we got up in the morning, we had exercises first, then we had breakfast.  The meals I think were prepared by the caretaker of the farm.  Then all of the fellows who were being trained got together and we read English magazines and newspapers.  Some of the magazines I remember were Life, Saturday Evening Post, and the Times newspaper.  The latest of these and one I don’t remember was dated in January 1942.  We also spoke English among ourselves so that we could learn to speak English better and get used to it again.  Sometimes we would receive instructions in the morning and sometimes in the evening, and they usually

936

lasted for about three hours a day.  Then we would play games and exchange ideas on what we would do when we got in America.  These ideas were about getting accustomed to our surroundings and trying to find people that would be able to help us.  All during this time we received information in explosives.  Also while we were together, we made up stories between ourselves as to what we would say in case we were caught.  I remember the story I made up to say that I was from Chicago and that I had worked on farms and I was born in Portugal and that my father and mother died shortly after I came to the United States and that I was traveling over the country.  As we had these talks together, Kappe would usually give us his ideas on what he would do.  Kappe mentioned one time that he liked the way the people lived in the United States and we all did that.

“It was understood when we went to the farm that we were to come to the United States to commit sabotage against war industries to benefit Germany and help hinder production in the Untied States.  They told us that this was just as important as soldiers on the Russian front.  Kappe told us that Dasch was to be the leader of our group and that when we came to the United States we were to lay low for awhile and get accustomed to it again.  He also told us not to live too expensively and to save our money because we would probably have a hard time getting any more.

“George told me that we were supposed to go to Chicago.

937

“I remember one time Kappe asked me if I knew anything about the Morse Code and I told him that I did not and that is the last time anyone said anything to me about it.

“It was understood that George Dasch, being our leader, would tell us what to do when we got to the United States and that he had received some instructions that we knew nothing about.

“Kappe told us that if we had friends in the United States whom we thought would work for Germany, we should discuss it among our group and all agree on whether it would be a good thing to go see them, and it was understood that George had to know about the people first that we were to come into contact with and if we got his approval and we all agreed on it, then we would contact them and see if they would help in our sabotage work. 

“George also told me one time that I was to look out for Henry.  One reason for this was because sometimes he would get drunk and would not know when to stop drinking.

“While we were at the farm, there were two groups.  In our group was George Dasch, Henry Heinck, Pete Burger, Jerry Swenson and myself.  There was another group there being trained and in this group were Herman, Bill, Eddie and Herbie.  Either Bill or Herman used the last name of Nicholas or Nickelson.  The reason I do not know their names is because each of these groups was trained together and we would be doing something while they were doing something else.  I know that the second group I

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have mentioned has come to the United States on a submarine.  Also, while we were at the farm, all of us did not use our right names.  I used the name Richard Quintas and they also called me Dick.

“I remember the last night we were at the farm, Dr. Koenig or Dr. Schultz told us that we were to play like we were going to blow up a manufacturing plant.  They pointed out a certain spot that was supposed to be this factory and this was to take place at night and they were to be the guards of the factory.  We were to work in pairs.  I worked with George Dasch.  The day before George and I had prepared an incendiary package and I fixed up a watch was I have previously explained, with wires so that the hands would make contacts and set off the incendiary.  We also used batteries.  The Doctors told us that we were not to make any noise and to sneak into this spot and place our explosives and try to do this without their seeing us.  George and I went to our spot and placed this stuff and the instructors stared throwing firecrackers at us to try to scare us.   It was understood that this package we used was not to burn and we were merely playing like it would burn, but some of the stuff some of the fellows used did actually burn or blow up.  I think the reason they didn’t want ours to burn was because it would destroy the clock and everything which we were using.  I think Pete and Henry worked together on this night and I do not know what they did.

“One day while we were at the farm, I went with Kappe and I filled out a paper.  I was told that my wife

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was to receive 300.00 marks a month which was for her and my daughter, Rose Marie’s support.  Kappe also told me that if I was permanently hurt, I would receive a pension and that if anything happened to me, my wife would get less money but she would be taken care of.  He told me that after the war was over, we were to return to Germany at which time we would be well cared for.  While there, we also were told that if we were arrested, we were not to talk or discuss anything about our training or anything about ourselves.  They also told us at the farm that both my group and the other group were coming to the United States by submarines.  They told my group and the other group that we were the first groups being sent to the United States, but I do not know whether they were going to send more. 

“I remember now that there was one fellow who came there when we first got there and he was there for only a few days and left.  I do not remember his name.

“After we had completed our course at the farm, Kappe told us that we were to report back to Berlin about May 12th at Ranta Strasse 5, which I thing was Kappe’s office.  He told us we could have a little vacation but cautioned us not to say anything to anyone about what we were going to do, not even to our wives.

“They had given us some money when we came to the farm and when we left, Henry and I went together to Braunschweig, Germany where my wife was still living in our apartment.  I got my wife and baby and went to Kuinbach, Germany, to her folk’s home.  Her father’s name

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is Jacob Sesselmann and he is a farmer.  I do not remember my mother-in-law’s first name.  I believe we left the farm about the end of April and I stayed with my wife at Kuinbach with her parents and left just in time to get to Berlin around the 12th of May.  I told my wife that I was going into the German Army and that with the work that I would be doing I would not be able to write to her.  I told her nothing else about what I was going to do.  When I arrived in Berlin, we all met at this office I have mentioned and the fellows who were there were George Dasch, Henry Heinck, Pete Burger, Jerry Swenson, Eddie, Bill, Herman, and Herbie.  He told us that there was nothing else to do; that we were to report every other day as the date had not been fixed yet when we were supposed to leave.  While we were in Berlin, I don’t remember just when, Kappe gave each of us a Social Security card with our names filled on it.  He filled in with the name I was using, which was Richard Quintas.  He also gave us a Registration card which he told us we would have to have as everyone in the United States had to register for the draft.  It was already filled in and I just had to sign my name to it.  He also paid us the money we had spent for carfares for the trips I had made to Braunschweig and to my wife’s home and back.

“While I was in Berlin, I stayed with my mother, Helen Quirin.  She lives with her sister, Berta Renz and they live at 65 Nurnberger Strasse where my mother’s sister has a rooming house.  My mother supports herself from the income she receives from the house she owns in

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Hanover, Germany, and her sister’s husband works as a bookkeeper somewhere in Berlin but I do not know his first name.

“We went back to the office several times to see Kappe before he told us we were ready to leave.  I think the day before we left the explosives we were to use in connection with our work in the United States, were brought to Kappe’s office.  They were packed in four boxes, wooden boxes, eighteen inches wide and a yard long.  I handled only two of these boxes.  One weighed about seventy pounds I would say and the other about half that much.

“He told us that the next day we were supposed to meet at a station at a time he set and the boxes were brought there too and we took them in the train and went to Paris and there we stayed in a hotel.  We arrived in Paris, the boxes I think were kept at the station, and we went to a hotel.  When we got to the hotel we were given some French money by Kappe and told to go out and have a good time.  In Paris we just ran around over the city, sight- seeing and having a good time.

“About three or four days before we left Paris, Bill, Herman, Herbie, and Eddie left Paris to get on a submarine to come to the United States.  The reason I know this is that they told me.  On the day we were to leave for the United States there was to be five in our group, Jerry Swenson was to be the fifth man.  He came down with a venereal disease and could not go.  However, he went with us to the place where we got on the submarine.

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“When we left Berlin to go to Paris, Kappe was wearing a German Army Officer’s uniform.  He may have been a Lieutenant.  We wore our regular civilian clothes.  I forgot to state that before we left Berlin, we were told to bring our clothes, the ones we had bought in the United States before we came back to Germany and I had a brown gabardine suit that I had bought in the United States before I came back to Germany and I was wearing this suit.  It consisted of three pieces, a coat, trousers and a vest.

“When we got ready to leave the hotel to go to the submarine, we put on a uniform which is used by the German soldiers for work, which was gray pants and gray jacket to match and a regular Army cap.  This cap had on the front of it an eagle with a triangle and a button in the middle that we call a ‘Cokarde.’

“We traveled from Paris to a place which is near Bordeaux, France, I do not know the exact spot, by train and we had the boxes with us.  When we got to the station, I think a naval officer met us and took us to a place where a submarine was tied up.  The submarine was tied up on the opposite side of the ship.  You could not see it from shore.  It was painted gray.  It had painted on the tower a pig with spikes on it.  It was painted with all colors.  We arrived at this place about eight o’clock in the evening and we went straight from the car to the submarine.  Our own clothes were already taken on to the submarine along with the four boxes.  Jerry Swenson, I think, went to a hotel to wait for Kappe.  When we got to

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the submarine, we were met by the Commander and he and Kappe exchanged salutes.  We went with him down into the submarine by walking on a gangplank to this ship I have mentioned and then walking over the ship and down a stairway or ladder to the submarine.  When we got on the submarine, there were four of us not counting Kappe and they were myself, Pete Burger, George Dasch, and Henry Heinck.  The Captain, Kappe and the four of us sat down at a table where we had a drink.  Kappe only remained there for a few minutes and each one merely wished the other goodbye and good luck.

“I forgot to say that before we got on the submarine we went to a hotel in a little town.  I think that the name of this little town was Lorraine, France.

“The submarine, I would say was about two hundred and ten feet.  When we left France, we stayed on top of the water and we were out on deck, and there were two boats that seemed to be guiding us out of the harbor.  We stayed on top of the water all that night.  During the next day we were under water all the time.  The next evening we came up again and we stayed up on top of the water part of the next day but we went under part of the time.  One time I remember we had to dive in a hurry because they thought they had seen an airplane.

“I think we left France around the last of May and while we were on the submarine, George Dasch gave me a canvas money belt in which he said there was Four Thousand Dollars.  He also gave me about three hundred dollars to put into my pocket.  When I received this belt I was dressing and he brought it over to me although one

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time I saw that he had a big pile of money with him.  He did not discuss the money at all on this submarine.  One the way over, the Captain told us that we were to be landed on Long Island and George told us that when we landed we were to take the boxes back up on the beach and bury them.

“When we were getting near Long Island, it was very foggy and we were on top of the water part of the time and under part of the time.  When we came near land, though, we came in under water and then the submarine came to the surface and we were told to get ready.  We still had on these uniforms that I have previously mentioned and I left my Army cap in the submarine.  We were told by George Dasch when we got on the beach that we were to take off these clothes and put them in a sack” --

 

The President.  Will the witness please inform me how many more pages he has?

The Witness.  This is page 17, sir, and it is 21 pages.

The President.  We will adjourn until 10 o’clock tomorrow morning.

(At 4:30 o’clock p.m., Tuesday, July 14, 1942, an adjournment was taken until 10 o’clock a.m., Wednesday, July 15, 1942.)