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Cover Sheet
STENOGRAPHIC
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Before the
MILITARY
COMMISSION TO TRY PERSONS CHARGED WITH
OFFENSES
AGAINST THE LAW OF WAR AND THE
ARTICLES OF
WAR
________________
Washington,
D. C.
Volume VI
Pages 744 to 944
744
CONTENTS
Name of
Witness |
Direct |
Cross |
Redirect |
Recross |
J. W. Magee |
747 |
760 |
|
|
Charles H.
Stanley |
765 |
851 |
|
|
Richard L.
Johnson |
855 |
861 |
|
|
|
862 |
|
|
|
EXHIBITS
Prosecution |
For
Identification |
In Evidence |
Read in
Record |
119 Photograph of writing on Dasch handkerchief |
|
760 |
|
120-A Heinck waiver of search |
|
766 |
|
120-B Heinck waiver of removal |
|
766 |
|
120-C Heinck waiver of custody |
|
766 |
|
121 Statement of Heinck |
|
769 |
769 |
122 Second statement of Heinck |
|
788 |
789 |
123 Wallet |
845 |
845 |
|
123-A Photograph of Wallet |
845 |
845 |
|
124 Registration certificate |
845 |
846 |
|
125 Social Security card, Heinck |
845 |
846 |
|
126 to
137 Photographs |
847 |
850 |
|
138, 138,
140 Clothing |
856 |
856 |
|
141, 142,
143 Photographs |
857 |
857 |
|
144 Clothing |
857 |
858 |
|
144-A Photograph of clothing |
857 |
858 |
|
145 Clothing |
858 |
859 |
|
145-A Photograph of clothing |
859 |
859 |
|
146, 147,
148 Three waivers, Quirin |
863 |
863 |
|
149 Statement of Quirin |
867 |
868 |
870 |
150 “
“ “ |
867 |
913 |
913 |
151 “
“ “ |
867 |
|
|
--ooOoo--
745
STENOGRAPHIC TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Before the
MILITARY COMMISSION TO TRY PERSONS
CHARGED WITH
OFFENSES AGAINST THE LAW OF WAR AND THE
ARTICLES OF WAR
________________
Washington, D. C.
The Military Commission appointed by
the President by order dated July 2, 1942, met, in room 5235 Department of Justice,
at 10 o’clock a.m., to try for offenses against the Law of War and Articles of
War, the following persons: Ernest Peter
Burger, George John Dasch, Herbert Haupt, Heinrich Harm Heinck, Edward John
Kerling, Hermann Neubauer, Richard Quirin and Werner Thiel.
PRESENT: Members of the Military Commission, as follows:
Major
General Frank R. McCoy, President,
Major
General Walter S. Grant,
Major
General Blanton Winship,
Major
General Lorenzo D. Gasser,
Brigadier
General Guy V. Henry,
Brigadier
General John T. Lewis,
Brigadier
General John T. Kennedy.
As Trial Judge Advocates:
Honorable
Francis Biddle,
Attorney
General of the
Major
General Myron Cramer,
The
Judge Advocate General,
Colonel
F. Granville Munson,
Colonel
John M. Weir,
Colonel Erwin M. Treusch,
Major
William T. Thurman,
Officers
of the Judge Advocate General’s Department.
Oscar
Cox,
Assistant
Solicitor General of the
James
H. Rowe, Jr.,
Assistant
to the Attorney General
As Provost Marshal:
Brigadier
General Albert L. Cox
746
As Counsel for the Accused except
George John Dasch:
Colonel
Cassius M. Dowell,
Colonel
Kenneth Royall,
Major
Lauson H. Stone,
Captain
William O. Hummell.
As Counsel for the Accused George John Dasch:
Colonel
Carl L. Ristine.
- - - - -
PROCEEDINGS
The President. The Commission is open.
Colonel Munson. The full personnel of the Commission, of the
prosecution except Colonel Weir who is absent on official business, and of the
defense are again present and all eight accused and the report are also
present.
The Attorney General. Shall I proceed?
The President. Please.
The Attorney General. Mr. Magee.
Lieutenant Page. J.W. Magee.
The witness has not been sworn to secrecy.
Colonel Munson. Mr. Magee, there are two oaths that are
taken. First is the oath of
secrecy. By direction of the commission
I am informing you that violation of that oath may result in contempt
proceeding or other proceedings of a criminal nature. Of Course, you understand that in taking the
oath as to secrecy.
Mr. Magee. Yes, sir.
Colonel Munson. You do solemnly swear that you will not
divulge the proceedings taken in this trial to anyone outside the courtroom
until release from your obligation by proper authority or required so to do by
proper authority?
747
Mr. Magee. Yes, sir.
Colonel Munson. Now you will take the ordinary oath as a
witness:
Do
you swear that the evidence you shall give in the trial shall be the truth, the
whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?
Mr. Magee. I do.
J.W. MAGEE
was
called as a witness for the prosecution and testified as follows:
Colonel Munson. What is you name, residence or office,
address, and occupation?
The Witness. My name is J.W. Magee. My office is the Technical Laboratory of the
Federal Bureau of Investigation in
DIRECT EXAMINATION
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q Are
you a chemist, Mr. Magee?
A Yes,
I am.
Q How
long have you been with the F. B. I.?
A Approximately
three and one-half months.
Q I
show you P-98 and ask you to examine it.
A Yes,
sir.
Q What
is it?
A This
is a handkerchief that I examined in the laboratory.
Q Where
did you get it?
A I
received this handkerchief from Mr. Traynor.
Q And
what did you do with it?
748
A I
made an examination to determine whether or not there was any secret writing
present on this handkerchief.
Q What
did the examination consist of?
Colonel Royall. May it please the Commission, we would like
our objection also to cover this testimony, because it is derived from and
related to the declarations or alleged confessions of the defendant Dasch, and
the other seven defendants object.
The President. May I ask if this objection and your
continued objection apply to your defendants strictly with regard to the
question that might be involved in conspiracy?
Your attention is called to the fact that they are under charges and
specifications for other crimes and misdemeanors, so I would like to be clear
on that subject.
Colonel Royall. Yes, Sir.
Our objections on behalf of the other
defendants to any confessions or statements of Dasch or any other of the
defendants relate to all the changes. As
a matter of fact, we think it is entirely clear as to the other charges, that
they are inadmissible. We think they are
also inadmissible as to the charge of the conspiracy, in the absence of a
showing that the declarations were made during the continuance of the
conspiracy by the declarant himself and in pursuance
of and in furtherance of the conspiracy.
Our position on the other charges is
that they are not admissible under any circumstances and that on the charge of
conspiracy they are not admissible unless it is shown that the declarations
were made while the declarant was continuing in the
conspiracy and were made in furtherance thereof, and as to
749
that
our contention is that the evidence now discloses that these declarations were
not made by the declarant while he was continuing in
the conspiracy and were not made by the declarant in
furtherance of the conspiracy.
Do I make myself clear to the
Commission?
The President. Have you any remarks to make at this time,
Mr. Attorney General?
The Attorney General. No except this: This is the handkerchief
taken from one of the defendants and it is a little different from the other
matter. You have already ruled on the
other one, it seems to me. It is a
handkerchief taken from one of the defendants, as the evidence with respect to
it will develop.
With respect to the other, I will not
respect what I said before, but my whole conception of this case under the
Commission is that any evidence that will convince a reasonable man could be
properly introduced, that technical objections of this kind are not relevant
under this Commission. The defendants
will have the right, of course, to take the stand and tell their story and so
forth.
That is my general basic conception,
which I need not expand, because it has been brought out before.
The President. I would just like to ask
at this point, if this were a court where the probative clauses that you quoted
had not been in question, for example, but the rules of the common law only,
what would your feeling be on this statement of the defense counsel?
The Attorney General. I would agree with Colonel Royall, it seems
to me, that with respect to the other offenses, the
750
confession
of one man is not evidence against another, the theory of a conspiracy being
that in a joint effort the act of each man affects the other, although I think,
very clearly and very frankly, the confession of one man with respect to a
crime other than the conspiracy would not be admissible against another, as a
matter of substantive defense. With
respect to the conspiracy, I think the picture is different, and I think I have
already argued on that.
The President. Yes.
A Member. You are continuing your evidence now with
reference to a conspiracy? We have not
passes on that point yet.
The Attorney General. That is correct, General Winship. With this particular witness you understand
that I think that would be true also, because this was found on one man.
A Member. I was not speaking of that. I was speaking about the law proposition we
have finally got to decide. We have got
to come to the time when we have to decide that.
The Attorney General. Of course.
A Member. And I think we would be very glad, I know I
would, to hear from The Attorney General with reference to that proposition, as
to how far this evidence that has been objected to is considered admissible for
the purpose of all of the defendants here.
The Attorney General. I will repeat again that with respect to the
conspiracy it seems to me to be admissible.
I have argued that at some length.
With respect to the other substantive crimes it does not seem to me that
the statement of one man can be admitted against another, under the strict
751
rules
of evidence. I am speaking as if this
were a court, as General McCoy suggested.
It does not seem to me it is.
That is an entirely different proposition, of course. But I cannot help stressing very strongly my
feeling that this should not be tried in a technical, legal way and that the
very purpose of the Commission is what would convince a reasonable man.
I think it is most convincing that having
shown that a group of these men landed together, what each man said they were
doing would, I think, be most convincing.
We are not here really dealing with technical objections to evidence.
I hope I have made myself clear. I repeat, with respect to the conspiracy, it
seems to me that the confessions are admissible. With respect to the other defenses, if you
were trying this as you try a law case, where the technical objections to
evidence that have risen in the history of the common law—
The President (interposing). May I interject there? I will modify my question as to the extent of
a normal court in time of war.
The Attorney General. Yes. I
do not know whether the fact it was in time of war would affect the rules of
procedure.
Let
me repeat. I think the evidence of the
confession of one man, if you were dealing in a court of law and trying this in
a court of law, would not be evidence against the other man, except of the
conspiracy. But with respect to this
Commission itself it does not seem to me that the technical rules should apply,
the way the Commission is drafted.
These men have been given a very fair,
very careful trial. They have counsel
representing them. They can take the
stand.
752
They
can tell their story. What I am reality
trying to get at is to get the truth and the facts before this Commission, and
I think, with due deference, that I have not made technical objections, with
one exception. I have tried to limit
that long confession, because I did not want Dasch to try to put his case in
through a self-serving confession.
I hope Dasch will take the stand, that
all of the defendants will. They can or
they need not as they see fit, but my real purpose is to get all of the
information, all of the evidence before you, and not be controlled by any
technical rules. I have tried to be as
open as I can in that way.
Now, let me say in this particular
case, I think, General Winship, that this is a little different, because, this
is a handkerchief found on the man.
The President. Proceed.
Colonel Royall. May it please the
Commission, I want to make one statement here that I think is appropriate.
The Attorney General once before and
twice during the course of his remarks to the Commission stated that the
defendant had a right to take the stand and he hoped they would do so.
I do not know of any principle better
established in the criminal law than the principle, first, that the failure of
a defendant to take the stand shall not be weighed against him. And it is equally well established that any
comment by the prosecution as to the failure of the defendant to take the
stand, whether it is an inferential allusion or a direct allusion, is not
consistent with the rights which the defendant has.
753
I want to respectfully enter into the
record an objection to The Attorney General’s comments relative to his hope
that the defendant will take the stand and his calling to the Commission’s
attention the fact that they can do so, and I move that those remarks be
stricken from this record.
The Attorney General. I had no idea of making any comment on
that. I do not think the remark was
improper. If it is, of course I withdraw
it. I was trying to give the Commission
the whole picture of the case as it was being presented. I withdraw the remark, if it is deemed
improper. I had no idea it smacked of
anything of the kind and I trust the Commission realize that.
The President. What particular remark do you wish to
withdraw? You said you were willing to
withdraw it.
The Attorney General. I said if the Commission thinks it should be
withdrawn I will withdraw it. Did the
Commission think anything I said was improper?
The President. We have not passed on that. The question that was posed was whether you
cared to withdraw any remark at this time, in answer to the counsel’s
statement.
The Attorney General. I do not think so, unless the Commission
wishes me to do so. I do not like to
admit that any of my remarks are improper.
Colonel Royall. May it please the Commission, it was not my
intention to say that as reflecting at all upon The Attorney General,
personally or professionally. It was
merely to make the point that the remark, even under any set of liberal rules,
was not appropriate, in view of the well established doctrine that an accused
could not be required to take the stand and
754
that
his failure to do so could not either be weighed against him or commented on.
A member. You make the motion now that that be
stricken, do you?
Colonel Royall. Yes, sir.
The Attorney General. To save time, I withdraw the remark, if that
would be appropriate. I will agree that
the remark be stricken from the record, without admitting that it is
inappropriate.
A member. That satisfies counsel, I presume.
Colonel Royall. Oh, yes.
I am not interested at all in reflecting upon The Attorney General. I did not intend so to do and there is no
reason why I should.
The Attorney General. May I proceed?
The President. Yes.
The Attorney General. What was the last question?
The Reporter (reading):
“Question. What did the examination consist of?”
Questions by The Attorney General:
Q What
was the examination that you made?
A I
made a visual examination, simply looking at the handkerchief, simply looking
at the handkerchief in normal light, to determine whether or not there were any
slight visible pen marks on it.
Q Were
there?
A There
were none.
Q Then
did you submit it to a laboratory test?
Colonel Royall. May it please the
Commission, do I understand my objection is in?
I do not want to continually arise, by I want to make certain my
objection is carried forward to
755
this
testimony.
The President. I do not quite understand why you are
objecting to this testimony.
Colonel Royall. I want to say with frankness to the
Commission that I am not at all certain that my objection on this is well
founded. I am making it merely for this
purpose. It is closely and directly
connected with a declaration made by the defendant Dasch as to the meaning and
substance of that writing. We have
objected to that and I did not want this in any sense to waive it. That is the only purpose of this
objection. As I say, I am not certain
that it should be sustained, but I do not want to be in the position of waiving
the position we have taken.
The President. The Commission would like to be dead sure
just how far your objections extend. Not
in any critical sense, but simply to make sure.
I understand you are objecting to all evidence that has been given up to
this point?
Colonel Royall. I am objecting merely to the declarations of
confessions or statement which witnesses on the stand say were made by certain
of the defendant so far as those alleged statement affect other defendants and
no further do our objections go.
This handkerchief was testified to by
certain witnesses yesterday in connection with certain statements of Dasch, and
it is so much a part of the same testimony that I feel that possibly we should
object on that ground. It is right hard
to segregate a thing that closely related.
It is not our intention to object to any physical evidence that has been
introduced, unless it is directly related to a declaration of confession
756
of
one of the defendants.
A Member. You are claiming the right of
cross-examination with reference to these until that matter is ruled on?
757
Colonel Royall. We are claiming, sir--
A Member. That is what you are claiming,
undoubtedly. You have stated your
objection.
Colonel Royall. We are claiming that the evidence should not be
admitted because it does not afford us a right to cross-examine Dasch or
whoever made the statement.
A Member. I would just let that objection be recorded.
The President. I just want to make sure that these
continuing objections are understood and that when the time comes to make a
ruling, we will cover them conclusively.
A Member. I think we all understand that we have about
reached a point here where a question is raised as to whether or not there have
been or have not been conspiracies, as to whether these statements that have
been made are applicable or inapplicable, or admissible or inadmissible. Of course, the Commission has to decide on
that proposition within the reasonably near future. We do not want to wait until the end of the
case to do that. Is not that your
understanding of it?
The Attorney General. My understanding was substantially that you
had ruled but that the ruling was to be reconsidered. But let me say that I cannot conceivably see
how this has anything to do with the confession. If it is so interrelated, you could say that
the whole case, because its parts are so interrelated, is objectionable.
The President. Proceed with the witness.
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q You
made laboratory chemical examination of the handkerchief?
A Yes,
sir, I did.
Q What
did you do?
758
A Well,
I subjected the handkerchief to the action of ammonia fumes.
Q Do
you have the ammonia fumes in court?
A No,
sir, I have them in the exhibit room.
Q What
do you have here (indicating)?
A Oh,
yes; Mr. Ladd brought them in.
Q Will
you subject the handkerchief to the ammonia fumes now, so that the Court can
see what happens? Explain as you go
along what you are doing.
A I
know on each side of the handkerchief the writing appears that is on the back
side with reference to the initial that is on the handkerchief.
Q You
know that now after having tested it?
A Yes,
sir. This is simply just stretching the
handkerchief on the cloth—on the board—so that it can be read properly.
Q So
that the record will show, tell what you are doing
A That
was the ammonium hydroxide that I put in, which will develop the writing.
Q You
then do what?
A I
show the ammonium hydroxide.
Q What
are you doing now?
A Placing
the handkerchief over the ammonium hydroxide.
(At this point in the demonstration red
writing appeared on the handkerchief.)
The Attorney General. Can the Commission see?
The President. The Commission can see and smell.
Questions by The Attorney General:
Q All
right Mr. Magee. Take the stand again.
759
Did
that bring out any writing in the handkerchief?
A Yes,
sir, it did.
Q What
was the writing?
A The
writing across the top line: the first word was Maria.
Da was the second word.
The third was written very indistinctly
and could not be read.
The fourth was Lopez.
The next word is
The next was not written distinctly and
could not be read.
Then there appeared a capital D.
The next word could not be read.
The next word stated with a capital M,
and part of that word was, it appeared to be, Mascarenhas,
followed by the numerals 52.
The next line read Father Kregger or Krepper.
Then, Gone Frey, RFD 2—the numeral
2—Box 40,
The next line started, Bingo, followed
by the name Walter Frohling.
That name was followed by the address
3643 or 8643 Wipple, Chi.
The next line was Helmut Leiner or Leiher, 21-58 (21-58) 73 (37) Str,
The last line was Franz Daniel
Pastorius.
Q I
show you Exhibit P-119, which has already been identified. Is this a photograph
of the handkerchief?
A Yes,
sir, that is the photograph that was made.
760
The Attorney General. I cannot remember whether or not I placed
this in evidence. I offer it now.
(Exhibit
P-119, photograph of writing on Dasch handkerchief, was received in evidence.)
The
Attorney General. Cross-examine.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
Questions by Colonel Ristine:
Q Mr.
Magee, could you tell me the date when you first saw the handkerchief?
A June
22.
Q Did
you meet Mr. Dasch on that occasion?
A I
don’t recall if I met Mr. Dasch on June 22.
I met him either on June 22 or one day subsequent to June 22.
Q Would
you say June 22 or 23?
A Yes,
sir.
Q Was
this the handkerchief in the possession of Mr. Dasch, which he had turned over
to the F.B.I. agents?
A It
was the handkerchief that Mr. Traynor gave me and
told me Mr. Dasch had given to him.
Q I
believe Mr. Dasch was present, was he, while you were bringing out what was
written on the handkerchief?
A Mr.
Dasch was not present the first time I brought that out, no, sir.
Q Well,
he had previously told the FBI agents that there was writing on the
handkerchief, had he not?
A So
Mr. Traynor told me, yes, sir.
Q Insofar
as he could, he aided you and the other agents in bringing it out, did he not?
A He
didn’t aid me personally, because I brought it
761
out
the first time before Mr. Dasch was brought up to the laboratory by Mr. Traynor.
Q Well,
did Mr. Dasch know, after he told Mr. Traynor that
the writing was there, that you had been successful in bringing it out? You did not advise him that you had brought
it out, did you?
A Oh,
my boss, the chief of the laboratory, advised Mr. Traynor
that we had been successful in developing the writing on the handkerchief. Photographs were made and sent down to Mr. Traynor.
Q But
what I am just trying to develop is that Mr. Dasch did everything he could to
aid and assist the FBI agents in learning everything there was to know about
the handkerchief and the other facts in connection with this matter; that is
correct, is it not?
A Well,
I don’t know what Mr. Dasch told Mr. Traynor. I would like to say that when Mr. Traynor brought Mr. Dasch to the laboratory on the second
occasion, in which this writing was developed, Mr. Dasch did all he could to
help decipher, if I may use that word.
He helped to decipher the rather poor writing appearing on the
handkerchief.
Q I
believe that the next to the last line is the most difficult one to decipher;
is that right? I do not know how you
might designate it, but I have in mind that one there (indicating).
A
No, sir, the first line is the most difficult, in my opinion, to decipher.
Q This
one here (indicating) is difficult to decipher, is it not?
762
A Not
appreciably, no, sir.
A Member. Which line is that?
Colonel Ristine. It all looks difficult to me. I was asking about this line here
(indicating). He said the top line was
the most difficult.
Questions by Colonel Ristine:
Q At
any rate, Mr. Dasch did everything he could to aid you in deciphering all of
the lines?
A Yes,
sir, that is true.
Q
I believe he told you also that he wrote this on this handkerchief?
A I
believe he told me, yes, that he wrote that on the handkerchief himself.
Q I
think he told you at that time that he was not particularly interested in the
Lisbon or Spain or Portugal address and had not been particular to write it for
that reason, did he not?
A No,
sir, he didn’t tell me that.
Q That
statement was not made in your presence?
A No
sir, not in my presence?
Q Did
you talk to him about any of the addresses on any other handkerchief?
A No,
sir.
Q You
did not talk to him about any other address.
During the time you were developing this writing, Dasch was just in
protective custody; that is correct, is it not?
A That
I couldn’t say, sir.
Q Well
we had better get the date, then, to be sure about that.
763
The Attorney General. He does not know. It is a matter of record. This witness does not know that.
Colonel Ristine. I am just going to be sure about the dates.
Questions by Colonel Ristine:
Q I
believe you stated you talked to Dasch on either the 22nd or the 23rd
of June?
A Yes,
sir.
Colonel Ristine. I might just call the Commission’s attention
to the stipulated memorandum, which states that Mr. Dasch was in protective
custody from
Questions by Colonel Ristine:
Q It
was rather difficult for me to figure out these addresses. Mr. Dasch suggested to me that the European
address is the first line; that these (indicating) are American addresses. Is that correct?
A Yes,
sir, that is correct.
Q The
European address is the one that it is very difficult to read?
A Yes,
sir that is correct.
Q Do
you not recall that he said to you when he was aiding in deciphering them that
he was not concerned particularly with that address at the time he wrote it?
A He
didn’t make that statement, in my opinion, that could be interpreted as
that. The only remark that Mr. Dasch
made to me personally concerning that European address was one in which he
stated that at the time he wrote the third word appearing in that address,
which in either Spanish or Portuguese
764
is
Conceicco, he thought of the American word
“conscience.” That was the only time
that Mr. Dasch made any statement other than his actual efforts to help me
decipher the document. That is the only
time that he strayed, you might say, from the actual work.
Q I
think you knew—or did you?—the circumstances under which he had voluntarily
reported to the F.B.I. and advised them of everything he knew in connection
with the matter?
A No,
sir, I didn’t know the circumstances at all.
I didn’t know anything about the case.
Q You
do not know about that. The three
American addresses are clear, are they not?
A Yes,
sir, they could be read.
Q The
one that is not clear and that you had difficulty about was the European
address?
A That
is correct, sir.
Colonel Ristine. That is all.
Colonel Royall. No question by the other defendants.
The President. Are there any questions by the Commission?
There seems to be none. The witness is excused.
765
The Attorney General. We will call Mr. Stanley.
Lieutenant Page. This witness has not been sworn as to
secrecy.
Colonel Munson. You will first take an oath as to
secrecy. I am instructed by the
Commission to inform you that violation of that oath may result in contempt
proceedings or any other proper proceedings, either of a military or a civil
nature. Do you understand that?
Mr. Stanley, Yes, Sir.
Colonel Munson. Do you solemnly swear that you will not
divulge the proceedings taken at this trial to anyone outside of this court
room until released from your obligation by proper authority of required so to
do by such proper authority?
Mr. Stanley. I do.
CHARLES H. STANLEY
was
called as a witness for the prosecution and testified as follows:
Colonel Munson. Will you please state your name, residence or
office address, and occupation?
The Witness. Charles H. Stanley. I am a Special Agent for the Federal Bureau
of Investigation, attached to the New York Office.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q On
766
Heinrich
Harm Heinck?
A
I did.
Q Where?
A At
Q At
what time?
A At
approximately 5:15 p.m.
Q Where
did you take him?
A To
the
Q Who
were present when you got there?
A Agent
W. W. Fisher and Langille.
Q Did
you take waivers for the defendant Heinck?
A Yes,
sir; we did.
Q I
show you documents marked P-120-A, P-120-B and P-120-C and ask you if these are
waivers that you took?
A Yes,
sir; they are.
Q These
are waivers of what?
A Waiver
of custody and waiver of search, to search his apartment, and waiver of
removal.
Q That
is signed?
A Yes,
sir.
Q In
your presence?
A Yes.
Q And
witnessed?
A Yes,
sir.
The Attorney General. I will offer them in evidence. I will not take time to read them unless
counsel wishes me to.
(Heinck
waiver of search was marked Exhibit P-120-A; Heinck waiver of removal was
marked exhibit P-120-B; marked exhibit P-120-C and were received in evidence.)
767
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q Did
you take any statement form the defendant Heinck?
A Yes,
sir.
Q When
was that taken?
A One
statement was taken on June 21 and one on June 23.
Q Who
was present when the statement of June 23 was taken?
A Agent
R. L. Johnson.
Q What
time was that taken?
A The
statement was signed at approximately
Q Over
a period of how many hours was the statement taken and under what
circumstances? Will you describe to the
commission just how it was taken?
A He
brought Heinck to the office on Saturday afternoon, the 20th, and we
talked with him—
Colonel Royall. May it please the Commission, I think this
would shorten it. The defendant Heinck
makes no objection to the introduction of the statements. That might shorten the examination. The other six defendants whom we represent,
and also Colonel Ristine’s Client, do not object to the statements so far as
they relate to them.
The Attorney General. We have not offered them yet. Colonel I understand the stipulation covers
this also; is that correct?
The Attorney General. Yes.
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q Just
briefly tell the Commission under what
768
circumstances
these statements were taken.
A In
the beginning Heinck gave us the first statement, and then after giving us this
statement he told us that he had not given us the truth.
Q How
long a period of time did he talk to you with respect to his first statement,
and how was it taken down?
A On
Saturday night we talked with him approximately four hours, and we began
dictation on the statement—
Q Saturday
night was what date?
A June
20.
Q Did
you take anything down on that date?
A Yes,
sir, we did. We took notes as Heinck
gave us the information, and after he had given us all that he wanted to give
us at that time, we began the dictation of the statements.
Q On
the next day was what prepared?
A On
Sunday we began talking to Heinck again at approximately
Q Did
he read it before signing it?
A He
read it aloud to us.
Q Did
he suggest any changes before signing it?
A Yes,
sir.
Q Were
they made?
A He
was allowed to make them in his own handwriting.
Q Did
he sign each page?
A He
signed each page of the statement.
Q I
draw your attention to page 5 of the statement.
769
Is
that a correction made by Heinck?
A Yes
sir.
Q Who
were the witnesses to that statement?
A Agent
Fisher witnessed this statement.
The Attorney General. I offer the statement in evidence as
Prosecution Exhibit No. 121.
The President. The Commission understands that that is the
second statement?
The Attorney General. No, sir.
It is the first one of June 21.
(Statement
of Defendant Heinck was marked P-121 and received in evidence.)
The Attorney General. I think I will ask you to read this statement
now.
The Witness (reading): “
“STATEMENT OF HEINRICH HARM HEINCK”
“I, Heinrich Harm Heinck, also known as
Henry Mayner and Kajner,
make the following voluntary statement to Special Agent C. H. Stanley and W. W.
Fisher and R. L. Johnson, who have identified themselves to me as Special
Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, U. S. Department of Justice. No threats or promises have been made to me
in securing this statement.
“I was born
770
boat was owned by the Hamburg American
Line and sailed from
“From the time I arrived in the
“Thompson’s Restaurant
“Blue Kitchen Restaurant
“Park Central Hotel, where I worked as
a busboy
“
“
“Mr. And Mrs. Kemp, Cedarhurst,
“American District Telegraph Company,
“Manhattan Engineering Company, as a
machinist
“International Projector Company,
“Ackele
Camera Company
“In about January of 1933 I married
Anna Isabella Coetz, who lived at
“Around July, 1938, I began working for
a branch of the C. L. Norden Company,
771
City.
I was not employed in the Norden Bomb Sight
branch, but was working on the 17th floor where I worked mostly on
the bench lathe, turning out gears and kinds of pins, and screws, which I
believe were made into the bomb sight. I
remained with this company for about eight or nine months. My boss’s name was Berger. While there I met Alfred Schneider, who was
employed on the big lathe in my section, and a number of other German aliens
were working there.
“Around March 1939 Schneider told me
that he had been contacted by a man from the German Labor Front. I don’t recall this man’s name. Schneider told me that we had a chance to
return to
“After this Schneider and I went to the
German Consulate and met a man from the German Labor Front, who explained to us
that conditions were good over there and a job would be waiting for us when we
arrived. When we left the Consulate, the
man gave me a ticket which I later took to the Hamburg American Steamship Line
and obtained two tickets, one for my wife and one for myself. I paid the sum of $60 for each ticket. When I handed the slips to the man at the
steamship line, my tickets were already made out and already and were
immediately handed to me.
“After obtaining these tickets, my wife
and I left
772
after being contracted by the German
Labor Front Schneider accompanied me on this trip.
“At the time we arrived in
“Around the first of April, 1942, Kurt Laas, who was in charge of the tools at the factory came to
my home and asked me if I would like a chance to go my home and asked me if I would
like a chance to go back to America and do something for Germany. I didn’t give
773
him an answer at that time but told him
I would think it over. I don’t know
whether he used the word ‘sabotage’ but he hinted that this was the type of
work I was to do. I thought this was a
good chance for me to return to
“A few days after this meeting with Laas, I talked with Dick Querin. I met Dick Querin
at the factory and became acquainted with him and found out that he had at one
time lived in
“Querin told
me he had also talked with Laas about this squad and
that he also was coming to
“About a week later I received at my
home a type-written letter, which did not contain any signature or government
stamp and it directed me to go to Quinsweec, which is
located about one hour’s ride on the train from Berlin Germany to a farm named
Quince Cut, around April 1, 1942. After
showing the letter to my wife and Laas and Querin, I took it to the Personnel Officer at the factory,
and he advised that I could not go for the reason that he did not believe that
the letter was official.
774
However, I decided to go and report to
the farm, where I met Dr. Schulz and Dr. Koenig, who showed me about the place.
“Querin made
the trip to the farm with me on the bus and was also shown about the
place. Later in the day six other men
arrived and we were introduced to them.
The next day a meeting was held and the doctors talked to all of us,
eight in all, about the work the soldiers were doing at the front, and stated
that as they were doing their duty it was up to us to help by receiving
training in
“The eight men in this class were:
“Dick Querin, who I now know as Richard Quintas
“Peter Burger
“George Dasch
who were grouped with me and who were
assigned to come to the
“The other four men were placed in
another group and were also to come to the
“Swens, a
tall husky German fellow, who looked something like a Swede
“Scotty, who
looked like a Scotsman
“Herman
about 5 ft. 8 in., a big strong German
“Jerry, short, dirty blond, about 38
yrs. of age who appeared to be the leader of this group
775
I believe that the other seven men
attending this school were approximately the same age.
“We attended school for a period of three
weeks and were instructed in different types of explosives, such as time bombs,
watch bombs, incendiary pencils, match boxes made in timing devices, as well as
a tin can or other metal container made into a device by the use of water, i. e., by filling the can with water and allowing the water
to gradually run out, thereby making an electrical connection. We were told to wrap incendiary pencils in
saw dust and place them in factories or warehouses, and that they would cause a
fire in a period of a day or two. These
pencils contained devices, which could be regulated as to time.
“We were also instructed as to the ways
of destroying or damaging ships, one of which was the use of a time clock for
setting off an explosion. We were also
told that we should place sand and some emery dust in bearings and machinery of
railroad trains and factories and my specific job in
776
“We were also instructed in the use of
a key ring as a means to set off a time explosion. This was down by springing the ring open and
placing a piece of sugar candy between the sides of the rings. This could be attached to a battery and some
type of explosives, and by throwing the candy and ring in a can of water the
candy would melt and soften the sugar, and the ring would therefore close and
cause electrical contact and set off the explosion. With reference to the destruction of boats, I
recall they told us that the time bomb or explosion should be on the side of
the boat and not in the center. We were
also told to circulate among the people in
“After completing our school, about
three weeks, we were given a week’s vacation, and I went back to Braunschweig with Querin. I remained at my home several days and then
took my wife to her parents in
777
attending this school and was also to
be used in sabotage work.
“We reported to Dr. Schulz in
“We left
778
“We left
“It took us fourteen days to come from
779
ing of four men, and two crewmen. During the trip from the submarine to shore
we almost turned over due to the waves.
When we got to shore we all left the boat and I was assigned to take the
clothes bag over the dunes on the beach, and the four boxes were carried by
either the other three or the sailors.
Before we left the boat the instructions were that the sailors were to
help us in carrying the explosives to the beach. We also had two short handle shovels with
us. On the way over from the boat I was
wearing a cap with a German swastika on it, but it blew off my head and was
lost. This was a cap from the sub
uniform. There were several trips made
from the rubber boat to where we hid the explosives over the dunes. After I carried the sack of clothing to the
beach I remained there and changed my clothes and took all of the other fellows’
clothes out of the bag. All of us were
wearing swimming suits under our uniforms.
The plans were to send our uniforms back to the submarine with the two
crewmen, but Burger came back to the dunes and told me that Dasch had met a
sailor and Dasch told him that the plans would have to be changed and Burger
brought the clothes back, and we then dug holes in the dunes and buried the
clothes and the shovels in one hole and the explosives in another. When Dasch came back to where I was he told
me that he had fixed it up with the sailor.
Besides the four uniforms we also buried three pairs of rubber beach
shoes, and I think Burger left a pair of high-top shoes.
780
“After we buried these articles we laid
on the sand for about a half an hour or three-quarters of an hour. During the time we were there there were search lights shining from different directions
covering the dunes, but we could not be seen because of the heavy fog. While we were there we heard no one return to
the beach there. We did see a couple of
cars going up and down the beach road.
“We then walked toward the road and
walked along the road but in the wrong direction, going toward
“We then registered at the Martinique
Hotel, under the names of Henry Kayner for me and
Quintas for Querin.
781
I think he used the name of Richard or
Dick. This was around
“Monday morning Quintas and I moved out
of the Martinique Hotel and rented separate rooms at a rooming House at
“The next
day Quintas left his room and told me
782
he was going to see Burger at the Swing
Club. I remained in my room. Upon Quintas’ return he told me that Burger
had gotten the address of some girls who lived at 144 East 86th
Street, and on Friday night, around five or six o’clock, Quintas and I met
Burger on the corner of 76th Street and Amsterdam Avenue, and all of us went to
Burger’s hotel room at the Governor Clinton Hotel. After Quintas called the girls two times, we
left the hotel and went to their apartment, where we remained until
approximately two or
“On
783
we walked to the Rogers Peet clothing store at 41st Street
“I wish to state that although I
volunteered to come to
784
sickness in the family, and Dr. Schulz
told me that it would be impossible to attempt to bring anyone back from
“I have read this statement which
consists of this and eight other pages, and it is true to the best of my
recollection.”
That is signed by Heinrich Harm Heinck
and witnessed by W. W. Fisher and C. H. Stanley.
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q Now,
thereafter did Heinck say whether or not at all those statements were true and
correct in that first statement?
A He
said they were not.
Q Which
statements did he say were not correct?
A He
told us he had given some wrong names for the second group of men coming to the
Q In
what other connection did he say the first statement was not
correct?
A He
told us that the statement given to us by him about giving Dasch the $3600 was
also false.
Q Did
he cover the statement with respect to giving Dasch the $3600 in a subsequent
written statement?
A No,
sir, he did not.
785
Q What
did he say to you that he had done with the $3600 and the money belt?
A He
told me that he had given the money belt containing approximately $3600 to
Herman Faje.
Q How
do you spell that?
A H-e-r-m-a-n F-a-j-e.
Q Where?
A He
told us Faje lived near the 36th Street
stop of the Jamaica, Long Island, subway, approximately one block away.
Q Did
he state to you any other matters in which the first statement was incorrect?
A Yes. He told us that he had not met Dasch on
Monday, as he had given in the previous statement, but the last time he saw
Dasch was Sunday night.
Q The
last time he had ever seen him?
A Yes,
the last time he had ever seen him.
Q Do
you know whether or not he knew that any of the other defendants had been
apprehended?
A He
did not.
Q Were
there any corrections in this statement of June 21st that he made
subsequently?
A Yes. He told us that the information given by him
about his being recruited in sabotage school was incorrect.
Q And
what was the correct information that he gave you with respect to that
statement?
A He
told us that in January of 1942 Walter Kappe, whom he had known in the
786
Q Did
he cover that correction in a later written statement?
A He
did, sir.
Q Did
he make any other correction with respect to this statement of June 21st?
A Yes,
sir.
Q What
was that?
A He
went into detail as to his course at this school, and he also told us that Kappe
was a lieutenant, that Kappe wore a German uniform while there.
Q Did
he make a second written statement?
A He
did.
A When
did he make it?
A This
statement was made on June the 23rd.
Q I
show you an exhibit marked P-122 and ask you whether that is the second
statement made by the defendant Heinck.
Is that the second statement?
A It
is.
Q Is
it signed on each page?
A It
is.
Q And
signed at the end?
Q Yes,
sir.
Q In
the presence of what agents?
A Of
myself and Agent R. L. Johnstone.
Q What
time was it made in the day?
A This
statement was started on the evening of June the 23rd and he
finished reading the statement and signed it on the 27th.
Q I
direct your attention to what appears to be a
787
correction
on page 2. Is that a correction made by
Heinck?
A It
is, sir.
Q And
did he initial it?
A Yes.
Q Those
are his initials?
A Yes.
Q There
are a number of similar corrections running through this statement?
A Yes,
sir.
Q And
were they all made by Heinck?
A They
were.
Q Were
they all initialed?
A Yes,
sir.
Q He
read it over, did he?
A Yes,
sir.
Q Did
he read it aloud?
A He
did, sir.
Q And
he made the correction as he came to the particular points he wanted to
correct?
A Yes,
sir.
The Attorney General. We offer this in evidence.
Now, may it please the Commission, this
is about a 26-page or 28-page statement.
It covers the matters somewhat more in detail. I have copies for the Commission, or, if you
would prefer, I will have the witness read it now.
What would Colonel Royall think about
it?
Colonel Royall. I do not know of any other method. I wish there were some way to avoid the
necessity of doing it. There are two
complications about it. In the first
place, if
788
we
attempt to summarize it, where there are some differences difficulty might
arise.
The Attorney General. Perhaps it had better be read. I did not want the Commission to think we
were taking up the time unnecessarily.
With your permission, I will have it read.
Colonel Royall. If I knew of a practical method to do it I
would be glad to suggest it.
The President. I understand that your stipulations will
continue to lie against this?
Colonel Royall. As to the other defendants, yes.
The President. Yes.
Colonel Royall. That would be another complication, to try to
give a summary.
(The
second statement of Heinrich Heinck, P-122, was thereupon received in
evidence.)
The Attorney General. All right.
Will you read it then?
The President. May I ask, in view of the time, whether
either of the counsel would care to have a brief recess of ten minutes?
The Attorney General. Very glad to.
The President. The Commission will recess for ten minutes.
(An informal recess was taken, at the
conclusion of which the following occurred:)
789
The President. The Commission will open.
Colonel Munson. The personnel of the Commission, of the
prosecution except Colonel Weir, whose absence was previously noted, and of the
defense; the eight defendants, and the reporter are again present.
The witness is also back on the stand
and is reminded that he is still under oath.
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q Will
you read the statement of June 23?
A (
“
“
“I, Henry Harm Heinck, make the
following voluntary statement to R. L. Johnson and C. H. Stanley whom I know to
be Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. No threats or promises have been made to me
and I make this statement of my own free will.
This statement is in addition to a nine page statement made by me on
“I finished public school in
790
helper on the S.S. Westphalia of the
Hamburg-American Lines.
“After having jumped ship at the
“My wife came to the
“After I married, my wife and I worked
at Cedarhurst, L.I. for a family by the name of Kemp. I was employed as a chauffeur and my wife as
housekeeper. We remained here for about
eight months.
“I also was employed for about four or
five years at the American District Telegraph Company and the Manhattan
Engineering Company as machinist and lathe hand. I was employed here off and on for several
months. Later I was working for the
Inter-
791
national Projector Company for a short
time and then with the Ackele Camera Company for
about eight or nine months where I was employed as an all-round mechanic. After leaving this job, I then started working
for the American Machine and Tool Manufacturers, which is a branch of the C.L. Norden Company. I
worked here from about July 1938 until I left the
“In 1934 I joined the German-American
Bund in
792
“During my connection with the Bund in
“After this, I joined the D.A.B. in
“While working at the American Machine
and Tool Manufacturers, I met Alfred Schneider.
Somehow Schneider must have gotten word that the German Labor Front
would help pay our expenses back to
793
arrangements. At the German Consulate, we talked with a man
and he sent us to the Robert C. Meyer Company, which was located on Broadway
just across from the Hamburg-American Steamship Line office. At the Robert C. Meyer Company, we left our
money and received a slip of paper which we took to the Hamburg-American Lines
and our tickets were already made out.
“After my arrival in
“In January 1942, Walter Kappe, whom I
had met in New York City when Kappe was publisher of the Bund newspaper, came
to Braunschweig and spoke at a meeting as a
representative of the A.O. (Auslands
Organization). Arrangements for this
meeting were made by Kurt Laas, who was in charge of
the tools in the Volkswagenwerk plant where I worked
and the meeting was held for the purpose of bringing together people who had
formerly lived in
794
first time I had seen Kappe since I
left
“About a month or two after this
meeting, Kurt Laas came to my home one Sunday and
asked if I would like to go back to
“After I talked with Laas was the first time I had talked with Richard Querin, now known to me as Dick Quintas as set out in my
original statement.
“I received the typed unsigned letter
mentioned in my original statement and took it to the personnel officer at the
factory, whose name is Prelle and then reported to
Quince Gut Farm on or about
795
got off the street car and he and I
rode the
“After getting off the
“When we walked up to the house, we
were met by Walter Kappe mentioned above and the caretaker of the farm whose
name I do not recall and they showed Quintas and I our room. We found that only one member of the school
which was later organized had preceded us at arriving at Quince Gut Farm and we
then met him. His name was Scotty.
“The main farm house was a two story
building with a cellar. The house
probably had about twelve rooms and the caretaker and his family occupied about
half the house and the personnel of the school, including Kappe and instructors
occupied the other half of the house. In
about the middle of the house was a living room and dining room where we took
our meals, read books and talked. The
members of my group had a room
796
at the front of the main farm house and
as the sun came up on that side of the building, I believe this was the east
side of the farm. Immediately south of
the main farm house and only a few steps away from there, there was located a
small farm house which was a one story building and which was occupied by some
farmers working on the farm. About fifty
feet south and possibly a little southeast of the small farm house there was a
hot house in which greens and flowers and other vegetables were growing. About 50 or 60 feet east of the hot house
there was a two story building. The
second floor of this building was used as a class room and laboratory; the
first floor was a garage and store room.
About 70 feet east of this class room and laboratory there was another
farm house. This was probably the barn
as I heard cows and pigs, but I did not visit this place at any time.
“About 60 or 70 feet southwest of the
laboratory and about the same distance southeast of the hot house, there was
gymnasium; this was a two story building.
On the second floor of the building, there was a room where a number of
bicycles were stored and another vacant room.
On the ground floor, there was located a gymnasium where we did sporting
with handle bars and took exercises.
Southwest of the hot house, there was a testing ground and rifle range
about 1000 feet in diameter where explosives and incendiaries were tested
during the course we took. There was
also
797
a rifle range on this testing ground,
but no one used the rifle range while we were receiving our training at the
Quince Gut Farm.
“West of the main building, there was a
small garden and a walk leading to Quince Lake, which was about 15 or 20 steps
west of and behind the main building.
About 25 or 30 yards north of the main building, there was a pistol
range. We did not use this pistol range
for training purposes but we fired on the range once or twice while the Doctors
were using the range. North of the
pistol range and in the same general vicinity was a lawn which we used for
playing soccer and other sports. We took
our morning setting up exercises on this field.
All of the buildings located on this farm were built of stone.
“As above mentioned, the first class
member that I met after arriving at Quince Gut Farm was the individual known to
me as Scotty and whose correct name I did not learn. Scotty remained in the class for about 8
days, but was not liked by the other members of the class and was dropped. Scotty was about 36 to 38 years of age, about
5’5’’ tall, weighed about 140 pounds, had light blond hair combed straight
back, was single and his conversation indicated he was very fond of the women. His face was wrinkled and his complexion was
light. His general appearance was
Scottish. His conversation indicated
that while he was in the
798
He did not indicate what part of the
“I cannot recall the exact date that I
arrived at Quince Gut Farm for this school, but I believe it was around
799
while he was in the
“Another one of the class members who
reported the same day I did was known to me as Jerry Swensen. I don’t think this was his correct name and I
do not recall having heard him called by any other name. He has the general appearance of a big Swede,
but he is actually a German. Swensen went through the entire school and was supposed to
come to the
800
freely about his experiences in the
“In addition to the above three members
who did not come to the United States, there were two groups of four attending
this school and we were designated to come to the United States. The group in which I was assigned included
George John Dasch alias Davis, who was the leader of my group; Peter Burger;
Richard ‘Dick’ Querin also known as Quintas and
myself.
“George John Dasch was from
801
dresses well and has a handsome sporty
appearance. He is married and he at one
time told me that his wife attempted to return to
“The second member of my group was
Peter Burger. Burger’s home is in
“Richard Querin
also known to me as Dick Quintas was the fourth member of our group. He was employed in the Volkswagenwerk
at Braunschweig,
802
“The second group of four who later
left for the
“I am not sure that Eddie Kelly is the
correct name of the group leader, but it is the only name I know him
under. Kelly is 34 to 35 years old,
5’5’’-6’’ tall, weighs about 150 pounds and has dark blond hair which he combs
back and parts on the left side. He has
an American hair cut and a light complexion and speaks good English. He dresses well and is married. I am not sure, but from conversation of the
groups, I got the impression that his wife is in
803
fifteen years. I think he had been in the restaurant
business in
804
“The second member of Kelly’s group was
Herman Neubauer. Neubauer is a cook by
profession and he indicated that he worked in a restaurant in
“The third member of Kelly’s group was
Herbert or Herbie Hauk. He was born in Stetten
near
805
ade and landed somewhere in France. He told me he had received a decoration from
the German Government for having run the blockade. I don’t know what type of decoration he
received as he said he left it at home. Hauk is about 28 to 30 years old, about 5’8’’ tall, weighs
about 170 pounds, has dark hair which he combs straight back, medium complexion
and is good looking. He spoke English
without accent, but did sometimes mix German words with his English and when
speaking German, he sometimes mixed English words with his German. He is single and is of muscular, stocky
build.
“The fourth member of Kelly’s group was
known to me as Bill or Billy Thomas.
Thomas formerly lived in
“There were four individuals in this
class who did not speak English and who did not associate with the groups who
were to come to the
806
Dr. Willowchevsky
and the two individuals’ names I do not remember.
“There was another individual who was
teaching gymnastics at the school and who was supposed to receive the training
and come to the
“Bill Dempsey is a trainer of prize
fighters and he left the school after about one week and said that he was going
to train a fighter whose bout was supposed to be in
807
“Dempsey is about 45 years of age, 5’
8’’-9’’ tall, weighs about 165 pounds, had brown hair, was of medium complexion
and his skin was somewhat wrinkled from age.
He was well built, broad shouldered, husky and muscular. He spoke very good English and from this I
believe he was in the
“The instructors and heads of the
school, other than Bill Dempsey, were Walter Kappe, Dr. Koenig and Dr.
Schulz. There was another man known to
me as Reinhold Bart. Bart seemed to be
the bookkeeper for Kappe and he addressed the class on one occasion. Dr. Schulz and Dr. Koenig were each about 28
to 30 years old. Schulz was about 5’5’’
tall weighed 145 to 150 pounds, had dark hair and he spoke no English. Dr. Koenig was about 5’9’’ tall, weighed
about 145 pounds, had thin blond hair.
He did not speak English to us, but indicated he spoke a little
English. Both the Doctors live in
“Walter Kappe appeared to be the head
of the school and was in complete charge of our organization and running of the
school. He was not at the school during
the entire time, but always visited the school on week-ends. He associated with the men in the class and
addressed
808
the class on a few occasions. Kappe is about 38 to 40 years of age, 5’8’’
tall, weighs about 200 pounds and is a very fat man with a big belly. He has blond hair which is very thin. His
complexion is light and he has a fat face.
Kappe is married and I believe his wife is in
“Reinhold Bart was from
“Walter Kappe, opened the school by
addressing the group named in the foregoing.
Kappe explained to us that the German soldiers on the Front were doing
their duty and that it was necessary to stop production in the
809
story as to our personal history
background and that we should rehearse these stories carefully and should be
instructed and closely examined as to these stories by the Group Leaders. Kappe also instructed us to adopt an assumed
name and to use these names at all times in order that we might become
accustomed to them. The name I adopted
and used was Henry Kaynar. Bill Dempsey suggested that name for me. This name was adopted because it was a Polish
name and I was to tell anyone who arrested me that I was born in Wilkes-Barre,
Pennsylvania, that my father was a coal miner and my mother died when I was 15
years of age; I then went to New York and worked in different Polish
restaurants and after that I worked on farms.
I was to say I have never seen my father after I left
“The school at Quince Gut Farm lasted
about three and one half weeks. We were
in school five or six days of each week.
The teaching at the school consisted chiefly of working with explosives,
incendiaries and their use, and sabotage, the training on our personal history
stories, and brushing up on our English.
We also conducted numerous experiments and used the explosives and
incendiaries on a test ground, which I have already
810
located. Each person had to make up some of the
various formulas that they gave us and had to work with the TNT we
prepared. The school and training
consisted chiefly of making and using explosives and incendiaries, and methods
of igniting incendiaries and setting off the explosives.
“The first thing we studied was
incendiaries and we spent about one week learning formulas and making incendiaries. The incendiaries that we made and used were
divided into two classes, the first being the light-burning incendiaries, and
the second being the hard-burning incendiaries.
During the school, the groups of students worked and studied together in
the classroom part of the time, but during part of the time one group would be
in the class-room learning formulas and receiving instructions, and the other
group would be in the Laboratory preparing incendiaries and explosives.
“I am unable to recall definitely the
formulas we were furnished for making the incendiaries, but have no reason to
withhold them, and have attempted to supply them to the best of my
recollection.
“There were three different formulas
furnished for the light-burning incendiaries.
I recall one of these three formulas was:
“One hundred parts of Saltpeter and
ninety parts of sulphur. This was placed in a tin or paper container
and was ignited by either of the ignition formulas, which I will give
later. Another of the light-burning incendiaries
formula,
811
consisted of the following:
“Two hundred parts of Saltpeter, and
one hundred parts of sawdust. In mixing
this formula, the sawdust was dampened, and the saltpeter was then mixed with
the sawdust. It was then permitted to
dry and was ignited by either of the ignition formulas, hereinafter set out.
“I do not recall the third
light-burning formula.
**************
“There were three formulas furnished us
for hard-burning incendiaries. As I
recall the first of those formulas was:
One hundred parts of Aluminum powder,
and three hundred or three hundred twenty parts of Caputmortum. These ingredients were powdered and mixed,
and ignited by either of the ignition formulas.
“Another hard-burning formula,
furnished us, consisted of the following:
“Hammerscale
and Aluminum powder. I believe the
portions were three hundred parts of Hammerscale, and
one hundred parts of aluminum powder.
“The third formula for hard-burning
incendiaries, I believe, consisted of:
“One hundred ninety parts of Plaster of
Paris, and one hundred parts of Aluminum powder.
**************
“We were furnished with two formulas
for igniting the light and hard burning incendiaries. The first of these formulas consisted of:
812
“One part of sugared powder to three
parts of potassium chlorate. This could
be set off by one drop of sulphuric acid, by a fuse, or other timing
device. We tested this ignition system
and found it to be too fast in most instances.
“The other ignition formula that we
were given, consisted of the following:
“Three parts of Potassium Permanganate,
two parts of flour and one part of sulphur. I am not sure that I have the correct
proportions, in that the formula could be
“We were furnished a formula for making
a substitute for TNT, but I do not at this time recall of what the formula
consisted.
“We were also furnished a formula for
making our own detonator caps and I recall that two of the things to be used in
making these caps were Urotropin, and 30 per cent of
hydrogen peroxide, but I do not recall the other thing that was mixed with
these two to make the detonator caps.
They did not stress this formula much as they told us they would furnish
us with all the caps that they would need.
“They also gave us the formula for
making the fuse, which formula consisted of:
“Fifty parts of Potassium Permanganate,
and fifty parts of Plaster of Paris.
*****
813
“The third week of the school was used
in making and experimenting with timing devices for setting off incendiaries
and explosives. One of these timing devices
was an ordinary movement of an eight-day clock.
This was used by attaching a piece of electric wire on the main spring
and when the main spring runs down, the spring will expand and make connection
with the wire, thereby closing the circuit and causing the explosion. The clock was also used for a second timing
device, by the use of a clock with a celluloid face in which was bored three
small holes. These holes were for the
purpose of holding the wire tight, and an eighth of an inch of wire was extended
through one of the holes so that it did not touch the dial of the clock. The other wire was attached to the clock
itself. The device could be set for one
hour or for any time up to twelve hours, by removing either the minute or hour
hand. They advised us, however, not to
set the device for more than 11 hours.
“They also furnished us with specially
made timing clocks. These clocks were
constructed with a hammer or lever which could be set for the required length
of time, similar to the alarm clock. At
the set time, the hammer would be released and strike the detonator cap
attached to the device.
814
“We were also taught how to prepare or
make a timing device by using an ordinary tin can or other type of container,
with a small hole in the bottom, the size of the hole depending on the length
of time desired. This container was
filled with water. On the top of the can
was a wire once twisted around the can, then going through the middle, leaving
a circle in the middle of the can. This
was for the purpose of having a bearing for the wire which extended through the
hole which had a piece of cork on the bottom, or piece of wood, for the purpose
of floating. As the water leaked out of
the can, the float sinks with the water level and the wire at the top of the
cork makes contact with the wire at the top of the can, when the leaking water
permits it to, and an electrical circuit is caused, thereby setting off the
explosive.
“They also taught us how to use a key
ring for a timing device: A piece of
tape is wrapped around one section of the key ring and one of the electrical
posts is attached by wire to that portion of the key ring, which is wrapped
with tape. The other electrical post is
attached to the other side of the key ring.
A piece of lump sugar or rock candy is then placed between the two
sections of the key ring after it is sprung apart. The key ring is then placed in water and the
lump sugar or rock candy melts. After it
melts, the key ring makes contact with the wire which is tied to the tape,
thereby completing an electrical circuit and setting off the device.
815
“They further explained to us another
timing device which was made by filling a bottle or test tube, part full of
dried peas, a cork with at screw was placed in the test tube directly over the
peas. One of the electrical posts was
attached to the screw in this cork.
Another cork with a screw in it was placed in the test tube, above the
first cork. The screw in this end was
attached to the other electrical post and the heads of the two screws were
placed so that they could make contact.
The peas were wet and as they expanded, they forced the cork above them
up, and eventually the two corks came together and an electrical circuit was
caused.
“They also told us how to make a chemical
timing device by the use of sulphuric acid, powdered sugar and Potassium
Chlorate. The sulphuric acid is placed
in a bottle and the bottle is sealed with a paper cap. The powdered sugar and Potassium Chlorate are
put in a position where the sulphuric acid would drop on them, eating away the
paper cap, thereby starting a very quick hot fire.
“The last course we had in school was
instruction in the use of secret writing.
The first method of secret writing was the use of any laxative which
would turn blue in water. I believe this
could be used on cloth or paper. This
was to be developed by the use of water strained through cigarette ashes. They also told us something about the use of
glycerin, but I am not sure whether this was for reproducing or the actual
816
writing. They particularly gave us the name of
‘Ex-Lax’, as one of the laxatives to be used in secret writings. They further told us aspirin could be used
for secret writing on paper. This was
also developed by the ashes and water.
“During one of the lectures, they told
us that secret writing could be done by placing a dry sheet of paper over a wet
sheet, and writing on the dry sheet thereby leaving an indentation on the wet
sheet of paper. All of this writing was
to be done with a toothpick with cotton wrapped around one end.
“They told us to place the secret
writing on the back of what appeared to be an ordinary business letter.
“After finishing our courses at the
school, we were given a week’s vacation and allowed to go home, but were instructed
to report to
817
wire towers. They also explained to us that by destroying
the large presses in the aluminum plants we could slow down production.
“At the
“During the course of instruction, we
had received some instructions and suggestions as to the manner in which the
power line towers might be blown up by TNT.
Walter Kappe had a list of all the Aluminum Plants in the Unites States,
and they were all mentioned during his talk to us, but they mentioned the new
plant in
“On the first day we went through the
aluminum plant, Dr. Schulz, Dr. Koenig, Walter Kappe and Reinhold Barth were
present and made the tour with us, and made the comments with reference to the
sabotage possibilities with the plants presented. On the second day, Dr. Koenig and Walter
Kappe had left and only Dr. Schulz and Reinhold Barth accompanied us.
“I might state that about the second
day of the school, Walter Kappe called me aside and asked me whether or not I
had any training yet, or knowledge of radio.
I told him that radio had been my hobby at
818
one time but that I had not worked with
it in several years. He asked me whether
or not I would be interested in doing radio transmitting the
“I have failed to mention that during
the course of instruction, we were told how to sabotage railroads and freight
cars. One of the devices to be used in
this connection was an electrical device which was placed on the track and the
circuit was closed by the train passing over the track and the explosion
followed. They told us before using
this, we should be sure that this device was used only on freight cars. In this connection we were cautioned
throughout the school, to be very careful and not to cause the death of
civilians.
“In connection with railroad sabotage,
they also told us how freight cars might be sabotaged by placing sand or emery
dust, or other abrasives, in the bearings.
While we were in
819
emery or other abrasives could be put
in the driver arms of the locomotive and cause considerable damage. He also got on the locomotive and showed us
the oil filter, and said we could put emery dust or an abrasive in this oil
filter and it would damage the locomotive.
“While we were conducting experiments
on the proving ground, during this school, they attached a load of TNT to a
railroad rail, which was fastened down, and blew a part of the rail away in
this manner. The material used in this
experiment was made in the Laboratory from the formula which they had given us
and was contained in a tin can or bottle.
“After we had finished looking over the
aluminum plants in
820
the damaging of locks, Kappe mentioned
to us the locks in the Ohio River in the
“During the course of instructions, we
were advised not to attempt to destroy any large dams or other large concrete
structures as this was practically impossible for a small group of men and
would require the services of an entire army.
“While we were in
821
“The Social Security card given to me
by Dasch was filled out in the name of Henry Kajnar
and bore number 346-01-5692. It bears
the date of
“The Selective Service card furnished
to me was made in the name of Henry Kayner,
“At the time the above cards were given
to us in
“While we were in school at Quince Gut
Farm, Kappe told us that the leaders of each group would be furnished with a
large sum of money. He explained that
this money
822
was to be used in buying a farm or
paint shop or some other legitimate business to cover up our activities. They also told us that each man would be
furnished with about $4,000, in a money belt and with some smaller money to be
placed on our person and to be used for our expenses until we got to this
country where we could open our money belt.
The money given to each man was to be used for his living expenses and if
any additional money was needed, Dasch was to secure it. They told us to lay low and become accustomed
to American life again even if it required six months and we were to use the
$4,000 for living expenses.
“While we were in
“Kappe told us the money we would have
would be in $50 bills. We asked whether
or not the money was fake or good and he told us it was good money, but that we
should be careful in spending it as the numbers might be known in this country. He said this money was taken to
823
money he was giving Dasch in the big
sum. In telling us to spend this money,
they told us not to change it in a bank and they also told us not to deposit
it. They told us that we should have a
small bank account, but that we should not use this money in opening the bank
account. Walter Kappe gave us all of
these instructions with reference to the money.
“Kelly’s group left the submarine at
The President. Will you please stop a moment? How long do you think it will take to reach
the remainder of that; how many pages are there left?
The Witness. I am on the 18th page and the statement
is 28 pages long. Approximately nine
more pages.
The President. I think we will adjourn now until
Colonel Royall. May it please the Commission, that is
entirely satisfactory to the defendants.
We would like, however, if it is not inconvenient, not to run quite so
late in
824
the
afternoon, because it does not give us much chance after that.
The President. Yes, we will be conscious of that. We will adjourn until
The Commission is in recess.
(At
825
AFTER RECESS
(The Commission reconvened at
The President. The Commission is open.
Colonel Munson. May it please the Commission: The personnel of the Commission, the
personnel of the defense, all eight of the accused, and the reporter are
present.
The Attorney General and the Judge
Advocate General, the trial judge advocates, request that they be excused with
their assistants, Mr. Cox and Mr. Rowe, for a few moments at the opening of
this session and that we proceed.
The witness is reminded that he is
still under oath.
Colonel Dowell. I wish to state that Major Stone of the
defense is temporarily absent.
The President. You may proceed with the reading of the
statement.
CHARLES H.
STANLEY,
the
witness on the stand at the time of the
(The reading of the statement of the
defendant Heinck was resumed as follows:)
The Witness:
“Kappe took the gold certificates from
the men in the first group and told us to look our money over to see that there
were no gold certificates among the bills and if we found any, we were to destroy
them. Dasch examined our smaller
denomination bills that we
826
were to receive and found some gold
certificates in this money before we left
“While we were in
(At this time Major Stone of defense
council entered the room.)
“1 - Several square blocks of TNT. These blocks were light tan or cream
color. Dr. Schulz had a small piece of
TNT when he was explaining it and told us that we could cut the large pieces in
the box with a saw or knife and it would not explode. We had not in our training used any ready
made TNT but only experimented with the substitute which would do the same job.
“2 - Piece of TNT which was painted or
prepared with some sort of plastic to resemble an ordinary lump of coal. I am not sure how many of these were in the
box, but it was my understanding there were only one
827
piece.
They told us how to make these lumps of coal by the use of TNT and
plastic wood. They told us we should use
black plastic wood and if we could not get this, we could mix it with black
paint so it would resemble coal. Dr.
Schulz told us that this was an example of a perfect work and said this was
made up in their shop. We did not make
any of this type of explosive at the school.
He said that the artificial lump of coal would melt about half away
before it exploded and said it could be used on a railroad locomotive or any
coal burning furnace. Dr. Schulz
mentioned this could be used in any kind of steam boiler and that it would
crack and ruin the boiler. He said it
would not tear the boiler apart. At the
time they were explaining this to us, one of the members of the class asked if
this lump of coal would be exploded by one of the coal cutting or cracking
machines and Dr. Schulz told me it would not but would kill the effect of the
explosion. I forgot to mention while I
was outlining what we were taught in school that we also received instructions
with regard to this form of TNT and its possible uses.
“3 - Fuses. One type of fuse was the TNT fuse which was
approximately ¼ of an inch in diameter, that is, the rubber hose in which the
fuse was concealed was ¼ of an inch in diameter. The TNT core of this rubber tube is 1/8 of an
inch in diameter. This TNT fuse is used
in exploding more than one piece of dynamite simultaneously. The pieces of dynamite
828
which were prepared for simultaneous
explosion were connected with one another by this TNT fuse. One of the sticks of dynamite is loaded with
a regular dynamite cap and fuse and when it explodes, the TNT fuse explodes and
causes almost simultaneous explosion on various sticks of dynamite. They told us this was the best method of
sabotaging power line towers if the legs of the power line towers were over
about four feet apart. If they were over
four feet apart, the separate charges should be placed on the separate legs and
connected with this TNT fuse. If they
were closer than four feet to one another, each leg should be charged with one
load of dynamite in which a cap was placed near and facing the stick of
dynamite which was to be exploded first with a fuse and the pressure from the
first explosion would, therefore, explode the other charges.
“The second type of fuse contained in
the box is the ordinary dynamite fuse.
“4 - Detonating caps. Dr. Schulz and Dr. Koenig also told us that
we had a supply of detonating caps in the boxes and that we would probably not
have to buy or make any detonating caps.
They explained that there were three types of caps and that they were
sealed up in wooden blocks. They could
be removed from the wooden blocks by cutting a portion of the wood which had
been glued on and the glued portion could be seen by examining the block
carefully. They told us to be careful
and not to drop the detonating caps.
There were three types of caps
829
furnished to us; the first type was the
ordinary cap to be used with a fuse in exploding dynamite and TNT. There were two types of caps to be used with
the fourteen day time clock device.
These two types of caps are made so that they screwed on to the fourteen
day clock. One of these types is gray and the other brass. One of those types
of caps is to be used with explosives.
One of these types of caps has a red ring around the bottom of the cap
and this cap is to be used with the incendiaries, the other cap was to be used
with the explosives.
“5 - Time clocks. Dr. Schulz and Dr. Koenig showed us a
fourteen day time clock and told us we had ten of these devices in the
boxes. I have already explained how
these clocks work but I failed to mention that each clock has a separate key which
is used in pushing back the trigger which strikes the detonating cap. Dr. Schulz or Dr. Koenig told us that this
was the best device we had for use in our work and they seemed to be very proud
of the construction of this clock.
“6 - Incendiary pencils and fountain
pens. They also told us there were ten
incendiary pencils and ten incendiary fountain pens in the boxes. I have already explained that we received
instructions as to how these should be operated, but would like to mention at
this time that Dr. Schulz said the incendiary pencils were made in
830
were very nice and wondered why we
could not be furnished with more of them.
One of the doctors then said that they were made in
“While they were telling us what was in
the boxes and explaining their uses to us, they showed us a fuse lighter which
was made of paper tubing with the wire sticking out of one end. When the wire was pulled from the paper
tubing, a flash of fire came out the other end of the paper tubing and this
could be used in lighting fuses. I am
not sure whether there were any of these fuse lighters in the boxes of material
that they furnished us.
“I believe Doctors Koenig and Schulz
told us there were ten different items contained in the box and I have
attempted to recall and describe each of the items as they explained them to
us.
“After Doctors Koenig and Schulz
finished explaining to us what the boxes contained and the uses we could make
of the materials, the boxes were left in the apartment where they remained
until we left
“Before we left
831
to the place we had buried them and return
to this place after it had been established.
“While we were in
“Kappe also instructed us to bring with
us one complete set of civilian clothes.
These clothes were our own and were clothing that had been purchased in
the
832
States and they were supplied by other
members of the group who had extra clothing that had been purchased in this
country. I remember that Kelly gave one
of the members of his group a suit of clothes and also gave another one of the
members a shirt. I furnished Burger with
an undershirt and Dasch furnished one of the members of our group with a pair
of trousers. The only German clothing
that I wore was a pair of brown shoes that I had purchased in
“We were instructed to change from our
uniforms to our civilian clothing as soon as we landed on the beach if we had
not been caught and they were to be put in the bag in which our civilian
clothing was brought to the
“One day while we were in
833
cautioned to keep our mouths shut, and
not to say anything to anybody about this venture, under any circumstances,
Kappe then showed me a paper which I read and signed. There was a part of the paper at the bottom
which was folded up and which Kappe would not permit me to read. My signature was above that part of the paper
that was folded, and Kappe told me there was some signatures on the paper which
he could not permit me to see. This
paper appeared to be a contract and provided for the payment of my salary to my
wife. I recall that it mentioned the
penalty, in the event we failed to go through with our work, and Kappe
impressed on me the penalty was death.
In this connection I might state I do not wish to leave the impression
that I was forced to do the work. I
believed that nothing would have been done to me if I had refused, when I was
first approached, with reference to this matter. After this paper was signed we had about two
days in
“All of our meetings were held in an
apartment house, the exact address of which I do not recall. This apartment house was about a five-minute
walk from the Zoo Railroad Terminal. It
was located just one block off Kerfuerstendamm, which
is the main street in
834
which the apartment house was located
was Taun Strasse.
“After we had been in
“The day after Kelly’s group left the
hotel, Kappe took us to the pier where our submarine was
835
docked.
The number on the submarine was 202.
During the voyage, we observed that all of the members of the submarine
crew had a good luck piece in the form of a porcupine, hanging from their
caps. We asked them what this meant and
they told us that their submarine had a picture of a porcupine painted on it
and this was their good luck amulet.
During the trip over, the crew gave each of our group, one of the good
luck pieces. At the time, I was
arrested, I still had this small tin porcupine.”
(At this point the Attorney General,
the Judge Advocate General, Mr. Cox, and Mr. Rowe entered the hearing room.)
“Before we left the hotel at
“I have outlined the trip to the United
States in the submarine in my original statement dated June 21, 1942 and cannot
add anything to that part of the statement.
The trip itself was uneventful and we were seasick a lot of the
time. During the voyage, one of the crew
members said he had seen a big sail boat, but we did not attack any ship on the
way over.
“I have also outlined in my original
statement, dated
836
and incendiaries and the clothing. I would like to add, however, that at the
time we entered the small rubber boat, that Dasch had four or five peculiar
matches. I later asked Quintas, what these
matches were to be used for and he told me for secret writing. I also recall that when we were on the beach,
Dasch lost a notebook and Quintas lost a shoe and we attempted to locate the
notebook and the shoe, Dasch going back to the beach to the spot where we first
landed.
“As outlined in my original statement,
we split in
“Before we left Dasch on Saturday,
Quintas made arrangements for us to meet Dasch at the Swiss Chalet at
837
not show up. We had previously made arrangements to meet
in front of Grant’s Tomb at
838
“When we left the vicinity of Grant’s
Tomb, Quintas and I took the subway form the
“On Monday, Quintas and I got up about
“Before we met Dasch and Burger at the
Horn & Hardart Cafeteria on
“I do not recall exactly what I did
Tuesday, but I stayed at home Tuesday night.
Burger, Quintas and Dasch went to the Swing Club. I further wish to state that I did not at any
time see George Dasch after I gave him the money belt in Horn & Hardart’s, on Monday, June 15, 1942, and I do not know
where George Dasch is. Quintas
839
and Burger also told me that they do
not know where Dasch is.
“Wednesday night, Burger and Quintas
and I went to the Swing Club. Burger did
not arrive until about
“I didn’t do anything Thursday, except
a little sightseeing and Thursday night, I stayed at home. Burger and Quintas went back to the Swing
Club Thursday night and Quintas did not come back to the rooming house on
“Saturday morning,
840
[Page
missing due to bad scan]
841
“At the time we left the hotel in
Lorient to enter the submarine, Kappe went with us into the submarine and
talked with the Captain, and we all had a drink together, and Kappe shook hands
with us and wished us good luck and told the Captain that Dasch would tell him
all about it.
“With further reference to our course
at the sabotage school, we were also instructed by either Dr. Schulz or Dr.
Koenig that in connection with the blowing up of oil or gasoline tanks that
explosives should be used. Dr. Schulz or
Dr. Koenig also told us that the Czechs had done a good sabotage job against
“Also, in connection with explosives,
Kappe told us that if we ran out of explosives, we should attempt to have
farmers buy an additional supply for us, or buy them ourselves as farmers.
“During the demonstrations at the
school in the use of detonator caps, Dr. Schulz placed a detonator cap in a
metal pipe approximately one-half inch in diameter, and, through the use of a
fuse, exploded this cap and blew the pipe into a number of pieces. This was done only to show us how powerful
the caps were. He told us that some of
the caps which were being furnished might even explode if they were dropped
from a table.
“I have described above the 14 day time
clock device,
842
and I forgot to mention that in the boxes
which we brought from
“I have also mentioned above that there
were four members of the sabotage class who were not to come to the
“From the general conversation of Kappe
and the instructors at the school and from the fact that we learned that Bill
Dempsey and Jerry Swensen are coming to the United
States with sabotage groups, I gained the impression that there was to be a
series of these schools, and that additional men will be sent to the United
States in submarines.
“On the final day of our training at
Quince Cut Farm, we were given a final test in the form of intended
sabotage. The instructors told us that a
certain spot would be a plant that we were supposed to blow up. Everyone
843
had their orders and two fellows were
together. This took place at night. We were told that we should sneak into this
place that was a plant and place our explosives and get away without anyone
seeing us. We went out and came in to do
this work, and I stepped on something that went off with an explosion. I think it was a firecracker. Then these instructors set off a lot of
firecrackers. One of the fellows was
told to go into a little stone house, and when he went inside, the house was
filled with tear gas. The reason for
this test was to see how well we should operate, and they told us we would have
to be quiet and make no noise so that we would be able to do this without their
seeing us.
“I have mentioned above that Herman
Neubauer was a member of the second crew to come to the
“In connection with the formulas which
we were furnished with at the school, I now recall that they instructed us in
the use of what they called a ‘Molotov Cocktail.’ This was prepared by using a ginger ale
bottle or any other type of bottle, and placing approximately one inch of
sulfuric acid in the bottle and then filling the bottle with gasoline. The bottle is then corked. We were then told to remove the label from
the bottle and to place under the label a mixture of potassium permanganate
with sugar and glue. This mixture was
composed of three parts of the potassium permanganate, two parts of sugar and
one part of glue. Only a small amount of
this mixture was placed under the label, and
844
the label was then put back on the
bottle. They told us that this type of
incendiary was used by the Russians against the German tanks. We were told that this could be used for
setting fires and that the proper method was to throw the bottle into whatever
we desired to burn.
“On the final night when we were given
the practical problem, this type of incendiary was tested and worked
perfectly. During this test an unknown
man came there to observe us. He was an
elderly man. I did not learn his name or
anything about him.
“I have explained above the way in
which I was approached with the proposition of coming to the
“I have read the above statement
consisting of 27 pages, which are typewritten, and have signed my name to each
page thereof. This statement is true and
is complete according to the best of my recollection.
“Heinrich
Heinck
“Witnessed:
“R. L.
Johnson
“C. H.
Stanley
“Special
Agents Federal Bureau of Investigation, United States Department of Justice 607
U. S. Court House,New York, New York”
845
The Attorney General. I will ask the reporter to mark these articles
for identification.
(Articles
handed to the reporter were marked, respectively, P-123, P-123-A, P-124 and
P-125 for identification.)
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q I
show you what has been marked for identification “P-123” and ask you if you can
identify it?
A Yes,
sir; I can.
Q What
is it?
A This
is a wallet found in the possession of Heinck at the time he was arrested on
June 20.
Q You
took it from Heinck?
A I
took it from Heinck myself.
Q Is
this a photograph of the wallet, this exhibit which I hand you marked P-123-A?
A It
looks like it is; yes sir. It has my
initials on it
The Attorney General. I offer P-123 in evidence and ask that the
photograph marked P-123 be spread on the original record.
(Wallet
marked for identification P-123 was received in evidence.)
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q I
show you, marked for identification, Exhibit P-124 and ask you what it is?
A That
is a registration certificate for selective service taken from Heinck at the
time he was arrested, by myself.
Q Was
it in his wallet?
846
A It
was in his wallet; yes, sir.
Q I
show you P-124-A and ask you if it is a photograph of the registration
certificate that you have just referred to.
A It
appears to be. It has my initials on it;
yes, sir.
The Attorney General. I offer P-124 in evidence and ask that
P-124-A, the photograph, be spread on the original record.
(Registration
certificate marked P-124 for identification was received in evidence.)
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q I
show you P-125 and ask you if you can identify it.
A Yes,
sir.
Q What
is it?
A That
is a Social Security card taken from the bill folder of Heinck at time he was
arrested.
Q Is
P-125-A a photograph of that card?
A It
appears to be; yes, sir.
The Attorney General. I offer P-125 in evidence and ask that
P-125-A be spread on the original record.
(Social
Security card marked P-125 for identification was received in evidence.)
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q Were
those two, the registration card and the Social Security card, the two cards
referred to in Heinck’s statement which you read?
A Yes,
sir.
Q I
show you P-44 and ask you what that is?
A A
slip of paper. Heinck explained to me it
was a paper which he signed in
847
Q Is
his signature on that card?
A He
told me that was his signature; yes, sir.
The Attorney General. That I think, is already in evidence.
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q I
show you P-45, already in evidence, and ask you whether you can identify it?
A Yes,
sir.
Q What
did Heinck say that that was?
A I
exhibited it to him and he told me it was a piece of paper which was pasted on
the sea bag or duffel bag which they brought from
Q Did
he say what the German words marked on that paper were?
A He
didn’t know, except that he told me he was under the impression that the duffel
bag belonged to the person whose name was thereon.
The Attorney General. I will ask the reporter to mark these
photographs.
(Photographs
handed to the reporter were marked P-126 to P-137, inclusive, for
identification.)
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q I
show you photographs marked for identification P-126 to P-137, inclusive, and
ask you what they are?
A Those
are photographs exhibited by me to Heinck on
Q Of
what are they photographs? Did Heinck
know?
848
A Yes,
sir. This one, P-126, Heinck told me was
a photograph of his sub. uniform worn on his trip to this country.
Q Did
he identify it?
A He
identified this as being—
Q On
the back did he identify it?
A By
placing his signature there, and the date.
Q Will
you run through the other photographs, describing briefly what each one
represents, according to Heinck, and whether the identified it?
A P-127
Heinck told me was a sea bag brought by his group on the submarine from
P-128 he identified as being—he placed
a mark on a pair of sneakers—
Q On
the front?
A Yes. He advised me this was a pair of shoes worn
by him on the submarine from
P-129 he identified by placing his
signature and the date, as being buttons, a similar type of button as those on
the uniform worn on the submarine.
Q You
say, a similar type of button. Did he
identify the garment shown?
A He
identified one garment with buttons of this type.
849
P-130 was identified by Heinck as a cap
on his head, of the kind worn by his group that they got in
P-131 was identified as the shovels
brought in by his group in the submarine and used to bury the uniforms on
He identified P-132 as detonating
materials brought by them to this country form
He also identified P-133 as detonating
material brought by them to
P-134 he identified as being
photographs of explosive cans and TNT blocks and fuses brought by them to
P-135 he identified as being a
photograph of explosive cans and TNT blocks and placed his signature and the
date on this photograph.
P-136 he identified as being a
photograph of boxes which contained explosives buried in Long Island which they
brought from Germany and placed his signature and the date thereon.
P-137 Heinck identified as being a
photograph of the 14-day time clocks brought by his group from
Q Did
you show him the original objects of which these are photographs?
A I
showed him part of them. I showed him
the duffel bag, the sea bag, together with the uniform and the shovels and the
raincoat and the shoes, as well as the cap.
850
Q Were
the shoes the shoes that Heinck said were his?
A Yes,
they were.
Q And
the cap?
A Yes.
Q And
he identified the objects as being the objects that he had already identified
in the photographs?
A He
identified the shoes as being the shoes worn by him. He identified the duffel bag as being the
duffel bag. He identified the uniform,
the dungaree jacket and trousers as being similar to those worn over here by
him on his trip.
The Attorney. I offer in evidence Prosecution’s Exhibits
126 to 137, inclusive, and ask that they be spread in the original record.
(Articles
identified by Heinck, Exhibits 126 to 137, inclusive, were received in
evidence.)
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q I
may ask what Heinck said with reference to the two cards you found in his
billfold.
A The
Selective Service and the Social Security?
Q Yes. What did he say about them?
A He
said that these two cards were given to him in
Q What
did Heinck say to you—I think you referred to it once—with respect to the money
he had, as to what he did with it.
A The
money in the money belts?
Q Yes.
851
A At
first Heinck contended that he gave the money to George Dasch, but later he
told me that he gave the money belt containing approximately $3600 to Herman Faje, a former friend of his, who lived in
Q Did
you find any other money on him?
A Yes,
sir. At the time he was arrested I took
from Heinck’s billfold $326.15.
The Attorney General. You may take the witness.
Colonel Royall. This, if the Commission pleases, is on behalf
of the defendant Heinck rather than on behalf of the others.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
Questions by Colonel Royall:
Q Mr.
Magee, when you were told about the corrections relative to—
The President (interposing). Will you state your name again, sir?
The Witness.
Colonel Royall.
Questions by Colonel Royall:
Q When
were you told about the correction to be made with reference to the money?
A I
was told that on Sunday afternoon,
Q You
were requested to correct that on the written statement, were you?
A Heinck
asked me not to put that in the written statement and I agreed not to do it.
852
The President. May I have that read by the reporter, the
question and the answer?
The Reporter (reading):
“Question. You were requested to correct that on the
written statement, were you?
“Answer. Heinck asked me not to put that in the
written statement and I agreed not to do it.”
The President. Proceed.
Questions by Colonel Royal:
Q Heinck
told you that he worked at one time for Norden, did
he not?
A He
said he worked for the American Manufacturing and Tool Company, which was a
subsidiary or branch of the Norden and in the same
building as the Norden.
Q And
did he tell you that during the period shortly before he went to Germany he had
found it impossible to get work, because he was not an American citizen and was
a German citizen?
A No,
sir, he did not.
Q I
believe he did tell you that after he got into this school he found that it
would be impossible for him to get out of the plan without running considerable
danger from the Gestapo, didn’t he?
A No,
sir, he did not.
Q Did
you take part in the questioning of any of these other defendants?
853
A Briefly,
some of them, yes, sir.
Q Which
others?
A I
talked to Kelly or Kerling for a few minutes.
I talked to Quintas or Quirin. I
talked to Haupt a very few minutes. I
talked with Neubauer for a short time.
That is, I showed them the uniforms.
I did not question them. I showed
them the uniforms. And I was present for
a short time during the questioning of Burger.
Q Had
you talked to any of them before June the 21st, when you took this
statement from Heinck?
A No,
sir, I had not.
Q Had
you talked with any of them before June the 23rd, when you took the
second statement from Heinck?
A No,
sir, I had not, personally.
Q Therefore
you could not have and did not give Heinck any information as to what the
others had told you?
A I
did not give him any information, no, sir.
Q I
believe in discussing with you the incendiary materials and describing it to
you he made the specific statement that he had no reason to withhold that
information from you, did he?
A He
said that, yes, sir.
Q He
further told you, did he not, that although requested to learn about radio as a
means of communication from this country, he had refused to do so?
A That
is right, yes, sir.
Q I
notice during this statement the work which Heinck was to do was in each instance
referred to as sabotage. Was that his
term or your term?
854
A That
was his term. I might qualify that, if I
may.
Q Yes.
A At
the time he told us about being instructed or being recruited for this school,
he said he did not recall exactly whether the word “sabotage” was used at the
time, but from the way they described it he knew that was what they meant.
Q And
your questions thereafter used the same word, didn’t they?
A We
probably used the word “sabotage,” yes, sir, on several occasions.
Q He
also told you that they had definite instructions, if they were successful in
destroying one or more aluminum plants, to do nothing more, didn’t he?
A One
or more? I believe I might qualify
that. He said if they were successful in
destroying the aluminum plants. He did
not specify one or more. He was speaking
of the industry, I believe.
Q Did
he tell you specifically that they were instructed to injure no one physically?
A He
said that, yes, sir.
Q And
he also told you that they were given no rifle practice and no pistol practice,
except one isolated instance where it was more or less a matter of recreation,
didn’t he?
A Yes,
that is what he said.
Colonel Royall. That is all.
Colonel Ristine. No questions.
The Attorney General. That is all.
The President. Any questions from the Commission? There
855
seem
to be none.
(The witness left the stand.)
The Attorney General. Mr. Johnson.
Major Rives. Richard L. Johnson. This witness has not been sworn as to
secrecy.
Colonel Munson. Mr. Johnson, two oaths are taken. One is an oath of secrecy. I am instructed by the Commission to inform
you that violation of that oath may result in contempt proceedings or in other
penal proceedings, and in taking it you so understand?
Mr. Johnson. Yes, sir.
Colonel Munson. Will you hold up your right hand,
please.
You do solemnly swear that you will not
divulge the proceedings taken in this trial to anyone outside the courtroom
until released from your obligation by proper authority or required so to do by
such proper authority?
Mr. Johnson. I do.
Colonel Munson. I will give you the oath as a witness:
You do solemnly swear that the
testimony you shall give in this case shall be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Johnson. I do.
RICHARD L.
JOHNSON
was
called as a witness for the prosecution and testified as follows:
Colonel Munson. Will you state your name, residence or office
address, and occupation?
The Witness. Richard L. Johnson,
856
DIRECT
EXAMINATION
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q Mr.
Johnson, did you search the defendant Heinck?
A I
did not search the defendant Heinck.
Q Did
you search his premises?
A I
did, yes.
Q Did
you find any clothes in his premises?
A I
did, sir.
The Attorney General. I will ask the reporter to mark these for
identification.
(Various
articles of clothing were marked for identification P-138, 139 and 140.)
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q I
show you Prosecution’s Exhibits 138, 139 and 140. Do the defendants want to see these?
Colonel Royall. No.
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q And
I ask you whether you can identify them.
A I
can, sir. This is a suit of clothes
consisting of a pair of trousers, a coat and a vest, which was found in a
suitcase in Heinck’s room at 139 West 76th
Street—149. Pardon me.
Q On
what day?
A On
Q What
did he say with respect to that suit of clothes?
A This
suit of clothes was later exhibited to Heinck on
857
him
when he came over in a submarine and into which he changed after he removed a
uniform on the beach near Amagansett,
The Attorney General. I will ask the reporter to identify these
photographs as P-141, 142, and 143.
(Photographs
were thereupon marked for identification as P-141, 142, and 143.
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q I
show you Prosecution’s Exhibits 141, 142, and 142, which are photographs of
this suit, are they?
A Yes.
Q Did
you show those to Heinck?
A I
did not show these to Heinck, no.
Q But
they are photographs of this suit?
A They
are photographs of the three pieces of the suit.
The Attorney General. I offer the photographs in evidence and ask
that they be spread in the record.
(The
three photographs, being photographs of the three pieces of the suit, P-141,
142 and 143, were thereupon received in evidence.)
The Attorney General. I will ask the reporter to mark these for
identification P-144 and P-144-A.
(An
article of clothing and a photograph were thereupon marked for identification
as P-144 and P-144-A, respectively.)
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q I
show you Exhibit P-144 and ask you what that is.
A That
is a pair of bathing trunks.
Q Where
did you find them?
A These
were found in the defendant Heinck’s room when
858
his
room was searched on
Q What
did he say about it?
A He
said these were the bathing trunks he wore when he landed on the beach near
Amagansett,
Q I
show you P-144-A. Is that a photograph
of the trunks?
A That
is a photograph of the trunks, yes.
The Attorney General. I offer P-144-A in evidence and ask that it
be spread on the record.
(The
photograph of the bathing trunks, P-144-A, was thereupon received in evidence.)
The Attorney General. Do you wish to see these, Mr. President?
The President. To save you trouble, Mr. Attorney General, in
case we want to see anything we will ask for it.
The Attorney General. All right.
I will ask the reporter to mark this
P-145.
(An
article of clothing was thereupon marked for identification P-145.)
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q I
show you P-145 and ask you whether you found that in Heinck’s
room.
A That
is a black belt and it has a metal buckle with an “H” on the buckle. This belt was found in Heinck’s
room when it was searched on
The Attorney General. I will ask the reporter to mark this
photograph 145-A.
859
(A
photograph of the belt, P-145, was thereupon marked for identification as
P-145-A.)
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q Exhibit
145-A is a photograph of this belt?
A Yes,
it is.
The Attorney General. I now offer 145-A and ask it be spread in the
original record.
(The
photograph of the belt was received in evidence as P-145-A.)
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q Now,
did you go to the house of Herman Faje?
A I
did, yes.
Q And
what day did you go?
A On
Q Did
you find there any money?
A Pardon
me. It was Monday, June 29th. I believe that is correct.
Q June
29th?
A Yes.
Q What
did you find there in connection with what has been already testified with respect
to what the defendant Heinck told you?
A We
found $3600 in fifty-dollar bills, two envelopes, containing 36 fifty-dollar
bills each is what we found.
Q Where
were they found?
A They
were found between two sections of a radiator cover. If I may explain my answer there, the
radiator cover in this apartment was a two-piece radiator cover, one piece
telescoped into the other, and the two envelopes containing the
860
money
had been placed between the two sections of the cover as they telescoped in.
Q Did
Mr. Faje show you where they were?
A He
did. He in fact located the money and
delivered it to us.
Q Where
did you get Faje’s address from?
861
A Fage’s address we didn’t’ know until we located the
apartment. We received the approximate
location of Fage’s residence from Heinck, but I don’t
know the address.
The Attorney General. Cross-examine.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
Questions by Colonel Royall:
Q Mr.
Johnson, did you at any time talk with any of the other defendants?
A In
this case?
Q That
is right.
A None
except Heinck himself.
Q When
you found the clothes that you have described, was there sand in them?
A There
was sand in the suit itself, yes, but I don’t believe there was any sand on
anything else. I noticed sand, though,
adhering to the suit and in the cuffs of the trousers and in the pockets.
Q It
was pretty visible and easy to discover, was it?
A Yes,
sir.
Colonel Royall. That examination was on behalf of the
defendant Heinck. None of the other defendants desires to examine.
Colonel Ristine. I have no questions.
The President. Are there any questions by the
Commission? There seem to be none. The witness is excused.
The Attorney General. We will call Mr. Wiand.
Lieutenant Page. Mr. B. F. Wiand. This witness has not been sworn as to
secrecy.
Colonel Royall. Will you tell me whom this witness’
862
testimony
relates to?
The Attorney General. This relates to the defendant Quirin.
Colonel Munson. There are two oaths taken by each
witness: the oath of a witness and, in
addition, the oath of secrecy.
I am instructed by the Commission to
inform you that violation of the oath of secrecy may result in contempt
proceedings or other proceedings of a court nature. In taking that oath, you so understand?
Mr. Wiand. Yes, sir.
Colonel Munson. Do you solemnly swear that you will not
divulge the proceedings taken in this trial to anyone outside the courtroom
until released from your obligation by proper authority or required so to do by
proper authority?
Mr. Wiand. I do.
Colonel Munson. This is the oath you will take as a witness:
Do you swear that the evidence you
shall give in the case now on hearing shall be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. Wiand. I do.
was
called as a witness for the prosecution and testified as follows:
Colonel Munson. State, please, your name, residence or office
address, and occupation.
The Witness. My name is Burton F. Wiand. My address is 607
863
the
Federal Bureau of Investigation.
The Attorney General. I will ask to have these three waivers marked
for identification.
(3
waivers were marked as Exhibits P-146, P-147, and P-148 for identification.)
The Attorney General. I offer in evidence three waivers, they
having already been marked for identification as Exhibits P-146, P-147, and
P-148. I understand that there is no
objection to them; therefore, I shall not further identify them but ask that
they be spread in the record.
“P-146
“Federal Bureau of Investigation
“United States Department of
Justice
“
“
“I, Richard Quintas, hereby authorize
any Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, United States
Department of Justice, to conduct a complete search of my residence located at
“This written permission is being given
by me to the above named Special Agents voluntarily and without threats of
promises of any kind.
“(Signed)
“Richard Quintas.
864
“WITNESSES:
“B. F. Wiand
“H. G. Foster
“Special Agents
“Federal Bureau of Investigation.”
- - -
“P-147
“Federal
Bureau of Investigation
“United States Department of Justice
“
“
“I, Richard Quintas do hereby consent
to remain under the continuous physical supervision of the Special Agents of
the Federal Bureau of Investigation, U.S. Department of Justice, without
immediate arraignment, and at such place as may be designated by the said
Agents, while information furnished or to be furnished by me regarding any
violation of the laws of the United States is being verified.
“This I regard solely as a step
necessary for my protection during the progress of this investigation and my
consent to this arrangement, is therefore, freely given by me without fear of
threat or promise of reward. It is,
however, not to be construed as an admission of guilt on my part.
“The foregoing having been read by me
and having been to be a true and exact representation of my voluntary decision
in the matter, of my own free will
865
I herewith affix my signature in
approval thereof.
“Richard Quintas.
“WITNESS:
“B. F. Wiand
“Special Agent, F.B.I.
“
“H. G. Foster
“Special Agent, F.B.I.
“
“P-148
“
“
“I, Richard Quirin alias Dick Quintas,
having been first fully informed by W. W. Fisher, Special Agent of the Federal
Bureau of Investigation of the Department of Justice, that I have the right not
to be removed from the Judicial District in which I was taken into custody
without being first arraigned before a duly authorized judicial officer or
magistrate and except by virtue of a warrant of removal issued for that
purpose, do hereby waive my right to be arraigned before a duly authorized
judicial officer or magistrate and my right not to be removed from the said
judicial district except by virtue of a warrant of removal issued for that
purpose, and do hereby freely consent and agree that I may be forthwith removed
by representatives of the Department of Justice in their discretion to any
judicial district of the United States, either for the purpose of questioning
or for the purpose of being held to answer any criminal charges.
866
“I am executing this waiver and consent
of my own free will, and without any pressure, compulsion or coercion of any
kind whatsoever.
“The foregoing document was read to me
before I signed it, and I fully understand its meaning and purport.
“Richard
Quirin
“Witnesses:
“W. W. Fisher
“Sp. Agt. F.B.I.
“NYC.
“R. E. Trow
“Sp. Agt. F.B.I.
“N.Y.C.”
DIRECT
EXAMINATION
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q Do
you know the defendant Quirin?
A Yes,
sir, I do.
Q Will
you identify him, please?
A He
is sitting at counsel table there, the gray-headed gentleman with the red tie.
Q Did
you take his statement?
A I
did, yes, sir.
Q When?
A I
took his statement on June 20. It was
signed on June 22. I took a supplemental
statement. That was signed on June
28. I took another statement on July 3.
Q At
what time on June 20 was the first statement taken?
A That
statement was taken—he was questioned approximately three hours on the 20th
and the following two
867
days,
on the 21st and 22nd, and he signed the statement on the
22nd.
Q What
other agents were present while the statement was being taken?
A Special
Agent H. G. Foster was present when the first two statements were taken; and for
the third statement, Special Agent C. E. Airhart was
present.
Q I
do not think you have said where that was taken.
A In
our office in
The Attorney General. I will ask to have these statements marked
for identification.
(3
statements were marked as Exhibits P-149, P-150, and P-151 for identification.)
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q I
will show you a document marked as Exhibit P-149 for identification and ask you
whether that was the statement you took.
A Yes,
sir, it is.
Q When
was that signed?
A That
was signed on
Q How
was it signed?
A It
was signed in my presence and the presence of Special Agent H. G. Foster by
Richard Quirin.
Q How
does that signature appear?
A Richard
Quirin.
Q That
is on the last page?
A That
is right.
Q Did
he sign the other pages?
A Yes,
he signed at the bottom of each page of the
868
statement.
Q How
did he sign each page?
A He
read the page out loud.
Q What
was his signature?
A R.
Quirin.
Q Did
he read the statement over before he signed it?
A Yes,
he did.
Q Do
those corrections appear on the original statement?
A They
do, yes, sir.
Q Is
each correction initialed by him?
A That
is right, yes, sir.
The Attorney General. I offer Exhibit P-149 in evidence.
(Exhibit
P-149 was offered in evidence.)
Colonel Royall. May it please the Commission, I should like
to examine the witness as to the circumstances under which the statement was
taken.
The Attorney General. I have no objection, of course.
PRELIMINARY
EXAMINATION
Questions by Colonel Royall:
Q You
pronounce your name Wiand?
A Wiand, yes, sir.
Q Mr.
Wiand, what, if anything, did you say to the
defendant Quirin as to the treatment he would receive in the event he gave you
a full statement?
A I
don’t believe I understand your question.
Q What
did you say to the defendant Quirin would be
869
the
result if he gave you a full statement of what happened?
A Well,
I told the defendant Quirin at the time that he could cooperate by furnishing full
facts, and that is what he did.
Q What
else did you say to him?
A That
is all that I told him.
Q What
did you say about his getting more favorable treatment from the Court in the
event he should make a full statement to you?
A I
didn’t say anything to him to that effect.
Q You
heard someone else say it, didn’t you?
A No,
sir, I didn’t.
Q Who
was there with you?
A Special
Agent Foster was with me at the time this statement was taken.
Q Anyone
else?
A Not
at the time, no, sir.
Q What
was the date of that statement?
The Attorney General. June 20, but I understand it was signed on
the 22nd.
Questions by Colonel Royall:
Q Who
were present when Quirin signed this statement?
A I
was present when he signed it, and Special Agent Foster was present when he
signed it.
Q Where
is Special Agent Foster?
A I
believe he is here.
Q In
answer to one of my previous questions you stated that you did not say anything
to that affect. Did you say anything
similar to that?
A I
told him that his cooperation would be appreciated;
870
that
is what I told him: that we wanted full facts; that that was our job—to
determine the facts.
Q How
long did you question him before this statement was made?
A Approximately
four hours on the 20th and approximately three hours on the two
following days.
Q There
were three statements, were there?
A No,
sir; that was for the first statement—this one here, yes sir.
Colonel Royall. That is all I care to ask in the preliminary
questions.
The Attorney General. I think I have offered this statement in
evidence.
Colonel Royall. Would you mind furnishing me with a copy?
The Attorney General. I am sorry; I thought you had a copy.
Colonel Royall. No, I thought I had one, too, but I find I do
not have one.
(The Attorney General handed a document
to Colonel Royall.)
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q Mr.
Wiand, will you please read this statement, Exhibit
P-149?
A (
“
“
“I, Richard Quirin, having been told by
H. G. Foster and B. F. Wiand that they are Special
Agents
371
of the Federal Bureau of Investigation,
make the following statement voluntarily and of my own free will. I have received no threats or promises and I
realize that this statement may be used as evidence in a Court of Law.
“The following questions were put by
Special Agent B. F. Wiand.
“Question. Richard, where were you born?
“Answer. I was born in
“Question. Have you any brothers or sisters?
“Answer. No, I have no brothers or sisters.
“Question. State the name of your parents.
“Answer. My foster father’s name was Ernst, and my
mother’s name was Helen.
“Question. Did you attend the public schools in
“Answer. I attended public school for about 8 years.
“Question. Where did you study?
“Answer. In
“Question. When you completed your 8 years of public
school, what did you then do?
“Answer. I went to work in a factory. I was a mechanics helper and after that I
worked a year on a farm. From that place
I came to
“Question. Do you know the name of the factory, and how
long did you work there?
“Answer. I worked there over 3 years in the factory.
872
It was a machine shop in
“Question. You state that you came to the
“Answer. Yes.
“Question. Were your father and mother living at the
time?
“Answer. No. My
foster father died when I was 9 years of age, and my mother is still living at
“Question. Do you recall the date you sailed from
“Answer. Yes.
It was
“Question. What was your foster father’s occupation?
“Answer. He was a machinist.
“Question. Did you pay your own way to the
“Answer. Yes.
“Question. And who were you coming to see?
“Answer. My uncle Ernst Wigleb. He lived in
“Question. Did you secure employment after you arrived
in the
“Answer. Yes. I
worked as a tinsmith’s helper for a few weeks and after that I got a job with
the General
873
Electric Company in
“Question (by Agent Foster). Was it in the main plant?
“Answer. Yes.
“Question. And what was your job?
“Answer. With the maintenance crew.
“Question. Did you go around through the various parts
of the factory and repair machines?
“Answer. No – well my job was at this particular
building. But sometimes I had to go to
get tools or iron from other parts of the plant.
“Question (by Agent Wiand). You state you went to work here about 1927?
“Answer. Yes.
“Question. How long were you employed by the General
Electric Company?
“Answer. About three years.
“Question. And why did you leave their employ?
“Answer. I was laid off because of lack of work.
“Question. Then what did you do?
“Answer. I went to
“Question. Where did you next find employment?
“Answer. Well – after that I had various other jobs
but only for short times. I can’t recall
all these jobs.
874
“Question. Did you work for any other company in
“Answer. No.
Not a big company. It was all
private bosses, you know. They have some
jobs and I worked at one of them 6 weeks or 8 weeks. One of these companies was the Multi-Needle
Engineering Corp. near the
“Question. Can you recall any of the addresses where you
lived in
“Answer. Yes.
“Question. What year was that?
“Answer. That was shortly before I took this job out
at Chappaqua. 1936.
“Question. Where did you live when you first came to
“Answer. At
“Question. Can you recall any other addresses where you
lived while in
“Answer. I lived in
“Question. When did you move to Chappaqua, N. Y. in
“Answer. That was in January or February of 1938. I stayed there until I went to
“Question. By whom where you employed?
“Answer. Mr. J. V. Rauch.
“Question. And what did you do?
875
“Answer. I was chauffeur there.
“Question. Do you know the nature of Mr. Rauch’s
business?
“Answer. Well – not exactly. He didn’t tell me much about his
business. All I know is he had an office
there, downtown. When he went to work
every morning I took him to the station and took him home from the
station. I think it was a cotton
business. Sport outfits – like skiing
outfits made of cotton and impregnated goods for winter wear, skiing, etc.
“Question. Are you married?
“Answer. Yes.
“Question. When were you married?
“Answer. In 1936 – in
“Question. What was your wife’s maiden name?
“Answer. Ann Sesselmann.
“Question. Was she German born?
“Answer. Yes.
“Question (By Agent Foster). When did she come here?
“Answer. In 1930.
“Question. Did she have any relatives here?
“Answer. Not that I know of.
“Question. Where did she live when you married her?
“Answer. We both lived in
“Question. At the time you married here where did she live.
“Answer. On
876
“Question. While you were in the
“Answer. I joined the Friends of New Germany I think in
1933 and remained in the organization about one year. I wore the party uniform at club
meetings. I resigned because I was a
German citizen.
“Question. Did you ever attend any of the meetings of
any clubs or societies?
“Answer. Yes—we went to dances and different
gatherings in Yorkville and the meetings of Friends of New Germany while I was
a member.
“Question. Did you ever become a citizen of the
“Answer. No. I
took out my 1st papers in
“Question. Did your wife ever become a citizen of the
“Answer. No.
“Question. Did she ever take out her 1st
papers?
“Answer. That I don’t know.
“Question. You state that you returned to
“Answer. I returned to
“Question. When you decided to return to
877
what arrangements did you make in
connection with this trip?
“Answer. The German Consul offered me to go back to
“Question. Why did you go to see the German Consul?
“Answer. I went there because I made up my mind to go
back with my wife. I heard rumors
through friends that some had their way paid back and I inquired about this and
they offered to send me back and pay my way and offered to get me a job
too. The boat was leaving in July. My wife went back two months before me. I had two months to wait.
“Question. I understand then – your wife went to
“Answer. Yes.
That’s right.
“Question. What was the name of the boat on which you
sailed and the date?
“Answer. The Bromen on
“Question (By Agent Foster). As a matter of fact, when you went to the
German Consulate – do you think the fact that you were a mechanic assisted them
in deciding to send you back to
“Answer. It may have been.
“Question. Was that point stressed?
“Answer. No.
They told me they do pay for fellows
878
who have some kind of trade. That was the understanding.
“Question (By Agent Wiand). At the time you decided to return to
“Answer. Well – I was in favor of it I would say. And I believed that things would become
better over there than they had been.
“Question. Did you intend to return to the
“Answer. Not at the time when I left.
“Question. At what port did you arrive in
“Answer.
“Question. Now state what you did when you arrived in
“Answer. I was with my mother-in-law whom I had never
met before, and about two weeks later I started to work in the plant.
“Question. Was your job already arranged for you upon
your arrival?
“Answer. Well not the job itself, because they had to
find out what I could do and according to that they got the job for me. But the place I was to work was arranged for
me.
“Question. Did you immediately become a member of the German
Labor Front?
“Answer. Yes.
It had to be that way because when you take up work you have to be a
member of it.
“Question. Prior to your return to
879
marks?
“Answer. Yes.
$500 worth in my name.
“Question. In what factory were you employed in
“Answer. Vokswagenwerk in Braunschweig, Germany.
880
“Q What
type of work did you do in the factory?
“A Tool
making.
“Q Was
this a large factory, and what did they manufacture?
“A They
made cars. It was a new type of car that
was being put out, it was known as the people’s car.
“Q Was
it a big factory?
“A Yes,
they employed several thousand people.
“Q Where
did you live in
“A Braunschweig, Grazer Strasse 14.
“Q Does
your wife still reside at that address?
“A No,
she lives in
“Q What
is the name of your wife’s parents?
“A Sesselmann. Jacob Sesselmann.
“Q What
is her mother’s name?
“A That
I don’t recall.
“Q What
does her father do?
“A He
is a farmer.
“Q How
long were you employed in Volkswagenwerk?
“A From
August, 1939 to April, 1942.
“Q Why
did you leave your employment at the Volkswagenwerk?
“A I
knew a fellow who worked in Volkswagenwerk by the
name of Henry Kayner, although I do not know if his
last name is correct, and he came to me and told me that he knew a fellow that
was looking for a man to go over on a trip to America for the purpose of
serving Germany in America.
881
“Q After
Henry told you about this, what did you next do?
“A We
went to Berlin and went to a place which was in the center of the city, Ranta Strasse 5, an apartment and
office building, where we saw a man who explained to us the nature of this
trip, whose name I do not know, and he asked me if I wanted to come to America.
“Q Explain
what the proposition was that he explained to you concerning your proposed trip
to the
“A He
said that if we wanted to come over here and get acquainted with people in
order to create some kind of an organization or people that would be against
war and fight it and work toward the end of the war, we would go to a place
where we would get some training in sabotage.
He did not, at the time, mention what it was, but we found out later
about it, and said that we would then be sent to
“Q Did
you accept this proposition at the time you talked with this person?
“A Yes.
“Q With
regard to this person who spoke with you in Berlin concerning your proposed trip
to this country, do you know, or have you any reason to believe that he was
connected with the German Government?
“A I
was not sure what he belonged to, but it was my opinion that he was from the
Army.
“Q Did
you receive any further instructions from this person?
882
“A He
told us to go back to Braunschweig. We stayed there until we received a letter
telling us that we were to be on a certain farm on a certain day. That was in the middle of April. I don’t know the exact date. After receiving this letter, I went to this
farm and there we stayed for about three weeks getting the lessons.
“Q Where
was this farm located?
“A It
is near
“Q What
were the names of the individuals who were in charge of you at the farm?
“A I
did not know any of their names but the instructors were doctors.
“Q Did
anyone go to the farm with you?
“A Yes,
Henry and I went together.
“Q And,
after you arrived, what did you do the first week?
“A The
first week we didn’t do anything, just took it easy; conversed in the English
language, read American newspapers and magazines, such as the Saturday Evening
Post and Life. The latest of these
magazines was dated January 1942.
“Q After
you had spent your first week at this farm then what was your schedule?
“A Then
we got to know about the explosives, what they were and how they were used.
“Q Did
you experiment with the use of these explosives?
“A Yes,
we experimented.
“Q Would
you describe the type of explosives you
883
were shown and used?
“A It
was a block explosive, yellow color, it was hard, size about 6 inches wide, two
inches high and about eight or ten inches long.
“Q Did
you have any other type of explosive showed to you?
“A Yes,
a black explosive. This was the same
stuff except it was black and looked like coal.
It was in lump. It was rough and
in various size pieces.
“Q Were
you ever told what type of explosive it was which you were experimenting?
“A No,
not exactly.
“Q Did
they explain to you the precautions to be taken in handling these explosives?
“A They
explained to use that it was very stable and that nothing could happen to
it. You could saw it or drill holes into
it and it wouldn’t go off.
“Q Did
you actually use some of this explosive in your experiments?
“A Yes,
I blew up a stump once with it. I took a
detonator, attached a fuse to that, put the detonator in the block of
explosive, then I tied this whole thing to the stump and set a match to the
fuse.
“Q Were
you given instructions as to a safe length with reference to the fuse?
“A Yes,
a safe length was told me about a yard.
“Q Were
you given any instructions in the handling of these detonator caps?
“A Yes,
they were very dangerous and that we should be very careful and not monkey
around with them.
884
“Q What
was the main use to which you were expected to put this explosive?
“A As
a cutting charge.
“Q When
you say cutting charge, what do you mean?
“A I
mean cut up steel rails and things like that.
“Q What
did they tell you in the way of explaining how to set a cutting charge?
“A
They told us that two pounds would be sufficient to cut a railroad rail.
“Q Did
they give you any other instructions as to cutting charges?
“A Not
exactly, they showed us this one way, and if you ever needed it for anything
else, we could take some of that explosive and use it according to the amount
you had to use to cut a railroad rail.
“Q
Were the only explosives you used the black lumps and the yellow blocks?
“A The
black lumps we did not use at all, we used the yellow blocks.
“Q Did
you use any other fuse besides the safety fuse?
“A No,
we didn’t.
“Q Did
you use anything to detonate these explosives besides detonating caps?
“A No.
“Q Then
the only things you used in the way of explosives were black lumps and yellow
blocks, safety fuses and detonating caps?
“A Yes. We later learned something about times
devices.
885
“Q What
instructions, if any, did you receive in connection with timing devices?
“A
We received some instructions about that in fixing up a watch and using the finger
of the watch as a circuit attached to batteries and detonating the explosives
by an electrical means. They also showed
us some regular timing devices which were all ready, the only thing you had to
do was to apply a detonator cap and set the clock. They also told us about using water in a cup
with a hole in the bottom of the cup but I do not remember exactly how it
works.
“Q Did
you receive any instructions in the use of incendiary devices?
“A
Yes. They told us to use gasoline or any
inflammables and use the fuse for setting of the fire.
“Q During
the time you were on this farm, what instructions did you receive in connection
with the type of objects you were to sabotage?
“A If
we had the chance to find places which made any kind of armaments, we could use
these explosives.
“Q In
what way?
“A
By putting the place out of work for a time by cutting down power lines or
tying up traffic by cutting rails on railroads.
“Q Then,
I understand you to state that your acts of sabotage were to be directed against
any plant engaged in the manufacture of war materials and also transportation
facilities. Is that correct?
“A Yes.
“Q
Did you receive any instructions in the use of
886
sand or abrasive in gears and oil
boxes, and if so, give the instructions that you received?
“A Yes,
we were told that we could put sand into oil boxes on railroad cars and engines
and cripple them that way.
“Q Were
you ever instructed to obtain employment in a national defense plant and commit
an act of sabotage in the place where you were working?
“A No,
we were not instructed to do anything like that in the plant in which we might
get a job.
“Q With
reference to this farm where you were trained, was this used by any part of the
German Army?
“A Yes,
I was told that this place was used for training grounds for the Army.
“Q What
part of the Army?
“A Pioneer
troops.
“Q What
does a pioneer troop do in the German Army?
“A They
build bridges and are in front of the fighting troops to pave the way for them
or take out mines from mine fields and stuff like that.
“Q What
were your instructions as given you at the farm, which you were to use when you
arrived in the
“A In
addition to the sabotage work, I was instructed to find people that were
against war and would work toward that end and create some kind of an
organization which would fight against the war.
“Q Will
you describe a typical day on the farm while you were there?
“A We
got up in the morning, we had exercises first,
887
then we had breakfast, and we sat down and
read English papers and magazines, and then we talked in English among
ourselves. We spoke in English to know
English better. Then we had rest again,
playing games, and had lunch. In the
afternoon sometimes we would go out for bike rides or we would sit around and
exchange ideas as to what to do when we got into
“Q How
many men were at this farm when you were there, not including your instructors?
“A There
were seven men, whose first names I remember.
They all appeared to be the same as I was.
“Q Do
you know the full names of any of these men?
“A The
only ones whose names I know is Henry Kayner, Pete
Burger, George Dasch.
“Q What
were the names of the other men in addition to Henry Kayner?
“A George,
Pete, Erich, Bill and Herman. Most of
the time George, Pete, Henry and I were together and had little to do with the
other fellows. We were supposed to be
together on this trip and that was the reason why we always kept together.
“Q The
reason, then, for these persons being at this farm was to be trained in
sabotage work to be performed in the
888
“A Yes.
“Q At
the time you were arrested you had in your possession a Social Security card
and a Selective Service Registration card.
Where did you get these cards and explain why they were given to you?
“A I
got them at the farm and they were given to me by my instructors. They told me we had to have them. They were already filled out when I got them
and I signed my name on it, which name I signed as Richard Quintas.
“Q During
the time you were on this farm, were plans formulated as to the names that you
were to use, and were you instructed what to do in the event you were arrested?
“A No
I was not instructed. I decided to use
the name of Richard Quintas which I made up for myself.
“Q At
the time you were arrested, you stated that you were a Portuguese, were you
instructed that you were to use a certain story or name?
“A We
received no intructions what to do if arrested other
than not to talk but we discussed among ourselves what we would do and what
story we would tell and I decided I would say I was from Chicago and that I was
born in Portugal.
“Q When
you were at the farm, did your instructors tell you that you were coming to the
“A Yes,
they told me we were going by way of submarine to the United States and would
be put ashore there, which place was not fixed.
“Q While
you were at the farm, did you have an interview or conversation with anyone
concerning the future care of your wife and child?
889
“A Yes,
I was told that my wife would get money every month to live on.
“Q How
much?
“A Three
hundred marks and they made out a written statement of this; also in the event
something happened to me, they would take care of my family.
“Q And
if you became permanently injured, you would get a pension right?
“A Yes.
“Q What
was your salary while you worked for Volkswagenwerk?
“A 350
to 400 marks a month.
“Q Can
you fix a date when you left the farm where you were trained for your work in
the
“A I
think it was the sixth of May. I was
supposed to be back at
“Q Where
did you go?
“A I
went home to Braunschweig and took my wife to her
parents in Kulmbach.
“Q You
state you have one child, please giver her name and date of birth.
“A Rosemarie;
4th of October, 1940.
“Q After
you had taken your wife to her parents, then were did you go and did you tell
your wife what you were going to do?
“A No,
the understanding was that I was not to tell anybody, not even my wife. I stayed there for a week with my wife and I
went back to
890
I reported to the man I originally saw
at Ranta Strasse 5. He told me to wait there, he would tell us
when we were to leave.
“Q At
that time, were you, George, Pete, and Henry in
“A Yes.
“Q Were
you given any money?
“A Yes,
we had money to live on in
“Q Was
this money to be used by you alone, or was it for you and Henry?
“A It
was for Henry and me, and we had some pocket money besides that.
“Q How
much money all together did you have?
“A I
had about $300 besides the money belt which was supposed to be $4000. I do not know how much money Henry had.
“Q At
any time while you were in
“A The
understanding was that Henry and I would be together in
“Q Can
you fix a date when you left
“A I
can’t fix the exact date but remained in
891
“Q When
you left
“A Yes,
we had four boxes.
“Q Describe
these boxes.
“A They
were wooden boxes and the size of each was about 18 inches wide and about that
high, and a yard long.
“Q How
much did these boxes weigh?
“A They
were different weights, I would say one weighed about 70 pounds and the others
about half as much, although they were the same size.
“Q Now
describe your trip from
“A The
one fellow we dealt with and us four went on the train to Paris, where we
stayed overnight in a hotel, and from there went on to a port where the
submarine was anchored at the side of a ship, which was tied up at a pier.
“Q Did
you have these boxes of explosives with you at the time?
“A Yes,
they were on the train and they were taken at this point by a car to the
submarine.
“Q Then,
what time did you board the submarine for your departure to the
“A It
was either on the 28th or 29th, I think, between 8 and
“Q Did
you receive any final instructions from the man who accompanied you from
892
“A No,
not exactly, there was only a farewell and that was all.
“Q Did
you take any clothes with you when you got on the submarine?
“A Yes,
I had my own civilian clothes and I was also furnished with a soldier’s uniform
to wear on the ship.
“Q Describe
this uniform.
“A Gray
pants and coat, the type that soldiers use for work, and a gray cap. The cap was a regular Army cap having an
eagle and a triangle. Between the eagle
and the triangle there was button, which we call the Cokardee.
“Q Under
whose command were you during the time you were on the submarine?
“A We
obeyed orders form the Captain.
893
“Q At
any time during the trip, did you have a discussion with the Captain of the
submarine regarding your duties in the
“A
No.
“Q Did
he instruct you what to do?
“A He
was not supposed to know much, that was what I was told before I got to the
submarine. He had orders to put us ashore
and that was all he had to do. On the
way we were to obey orders because he was going to fix the place where we were
to be put ashore.
“Q Aside
from the Social Security card, the Selective Service card, and the money with
which you were furnished, did you have any other papers, documents, of other
secret writings in your possession when you left
“A No.
“Q How
long a period of time did it take you to come to the
“A I
should say two weeks.
“Q Did
you know the name of the port from where you sailed from
“A I
was told it was near
“Q Do
you recall on what day you arrived in the
“A Yes,
Saturday, the 13th, at around 1:00 a.m.
“Q Where
did you land?
“A On
Long Island, near
894
“Q Now,
what, in your own words, happened at the time the submarine approached the
“A When
we were told we were near, the Captain told us to get ready, which we did. I was wearing a pair of dark blue swimming
trunks with a white belt and dressed in the soldier’s uniform, although I left
my cap on board the submarine. The
submarine came to the surface and about 14 men came out on deck. We came out later. When we came up, there was a rubber boat
ready waiting for us and two sailors were in the rubber boat and on to it was
fixed a tow line which was hooked to the submarine so it could be pulled back
after we had been landed. We stepped
into the boat and the Captain wished us good luck and we rowed ashore. The boxes were already in the boat when we
got into it. I would say that the
submarine was between a half mile and a mile from shore.
“Q Were
you, Henry, George, and Pete all wearing the same type of clothes when you
landed on the
“A Yes.
“Q How
many sailors accompanied you during this landing?
“A Two.
“Q Did
they return to the submarine?
“A Yes.
“Q What
did you do when you got on shore?
“A We
carried the boxes on shore and changed our clothes. The uniforms were being put in a sack and one
fellow took the sack to the boat in order that it might
895
be taken back to the ship. Pete came back right away and said George had
talked with a watchman but he said to go on ahead. So, we took the boxes and carried them up
further form the beach in a hurry and just buried them there.
“Q Prior
to your landing from the submarine, had you made up your mind as to what you
would do with the explosives contained in these boxes?
“A yes,
we made up our minds to bury them at a place which was to be selected.
“Q For
this purpose, then, did you have any tools to be used in burying these boxes?
“A Yes,
we had shovels.
“Q Describe
those shovels.
“A They
were trench shovels, short handles and a cross bar on top of them.
“Q How
many boxes did you carry from the boat to the place where you buried them?
“A I
carried two.
“Q How
many boxes were there?
“A Four.
“Q There
were the same boxes you put in the submarine when you departed from
“A Yes.
“Q Were
the uniforms you were wearing taken back to the submarine by the sailors?
“A No,
one of the fellows had the sack and was taking it back, and he came back and
said that George was talking to a watchman and, therefore, I do not know
896
whether these uniforms were taken back
as we planned.
“Q Do
you recall whether or not any of your group were wearing these Army caps at the
time you landed on the beach?
“A I
don’t recall that.
“Q Can
you state whether or not in your rowing from the submarine to the beach, you
lost any of the oars?
“A That
may be, but I don’t know.
“Q Did
anyone meet you on the beach to assist you in landing?
“A No.
“Q After
you made the landing, did you change your clothes on the beach?
“A Yes,
we changed into our civilian clothes on the beach.
“Q After
you had made the landing and changed your clothes on the beach, were did you
go?
“A We
went up on the beach with the boxes and buried them there and then we walked
toward the road and there stayed until all four of us were together.
“We kept on walking and walked toward,
what seemed to be a village. Some place
we sat down and waited until it got a little light and then we made out where
to go. We went on to Amagansett, I think
it was the next stop to
“Q Where
did you wait for this train?
“A At
the station.
897
“Q Describe
the rout you took from the beach to Amagansett.
“A From
the beach, there was a road which we hit first.
There was shrubbery along this road and we walked along behind it. We then walked across a stretch of land until
we hit what seemed to be a farm road. We
followed this road which was landing us away from the beach. There we stopped awhile and waited for it to
get light and kept on walking along this road until we hit a concrete
road. We took this to the left toward
“Q Had
you ever been in this vicinity on
“A No.
“Q Were
you acquainted with the vicinity?
“A No. I was near that vicinity while fishing once,
but I think it was further toward
“Q Were
some of your companions acquainted with this area?
“A Yes,
George seemed to know.
“Q What
was the condition of the weather on the night you landed?
“A It
was very foggy out, you could only see ten or fifteen yards. At times, you could see more. In the morning it was nice.
898
“Q What
time was it when you landed?
“A I
think it was around
“Q At
what time did you leave Amagansett?
“A At
about seven o’clock by train.
“Q Did
you purchase your tickets in the stations, and who paid from them, and what was
your destination?
“A Our
destination was
“Q Did
anyone stop you from the time you left the shore and the time you arrived at
the station?
“A No,
no one stopped us.
“Q Did
you see anyone?
“A No.
“Q After
you had buried the boxes and proceeded to the station, at any time did you and
your comrades have any discussion about returning to boxes?
“A Yes,
we spoke about getting the boxes sometime but it was not decided upon because
after meeting the watchman there we were not sure whether it would turn out all
right. So, we just left them there, but
there was no definite arrangement as to what we would do with those boxes.
“Q At
what time did you arrive in
“A I
think we arrived in
899
I put them on and threw my old clothes
that were wrapped in a bundle in a waste can.
“Q At
the time you were changing clothes on the beach or any time thereafter, did
anyone mention to you that they had lost a vest?
“A No.
“Q What
arrangements were made for meeting again while you were in
“A Well,
that we should be at Grant’s Tomb on certain days, on Saturdays and Wednesdays
I believe it was.
“Q Did
you, Henry, Pete, and George agree where you were to stay in
“A No,
we did not. We just split up, two by
two. I went with Henry and Pete went
with George.
“Q At
what time did you part in
“A We
parted at
“Q Then
what did you do?
“A Well,
Henry and I stayed together and we got on the subway and went over to
“Q Under
what name did you register at this hotel?
“A Richard
Quintas from
“Q Do
you recall the number of the room where you stayed?
“A No,
I don’t.
“Q Since
you have been in
900
“A Yes.
“Q Were
there ever any arrangements made that you and Henry should stay at the
“A Yes,
I think George mentioned something like that but I didn’t want to look around
for it. We happened to be at the
Pennsylvania Station and this was a close hotel and we just stopped in there,
that’s all.
“Q What
was the reason you left the Martinique Hotel?
“A Because
it was too expensive and we wanted to find a cheaper room.
“Q Were
you successful in finding a room?
“A Yes,
we looked up the papers and went up to 76th Street and took a room
in a rooming house at 149 West 76th Street and we intended to remain
there quite sometime.
“Q How
did you spend your time during the day?
“A Well,
Henry and I were together most of the time.
We walked most of the time, stopped in to have something to eat, we went
to a show, that’s about all.
“Q After
you parted in
“A Last
Sunday, we met at Grant’s Tomb, the four of us were together. We had made an agreement in
“Q What
conversation did you have or enter into at this time? “A Well, we just walked along.
We didn’t talk
901
much at all except that George said he
was going to leave town maybe, but he didn’t know what time or when he was
going to leave. There was nothing much
said. He and Pete left us then.
“Q How
long were you together?
“A About
at quarter of an hour, that’s all.
“Q Did
you have any other meetings after the one just mentioned?
“A Yes,
Henry and I met Pete several times.
“Q Can
you fix the days on which you met him?
“A I
recall now that I met Pete on the following day at which time Henry was with me
and I am quite sure I met him on Tuesday, June 16, at which time I gave him our
new address. I don’t remember what we
did. He said it was good to be with us
because he was all by himself and that is that reason he came to see us so
often. We went out and had dinner
together and stayed together for a little while in a restaurant and them
parted. On Wednesday we met again, June
17, at which time we bought a suit at Rogers Peet and
he told us it would be ready on Saturday at
“Q Do
you recall the day when Pete gave you his address?
“A I
believe it was on Wednesday, June 17, when he gave his room number and said he
was staying at the Governor Clinton Hotel.
I think the room was #1421.
“Q During
any of these meetings you had with Pete at the time Henry was usually with you,
did you discuss
902
or formulate any plans in connection
with the instructions you received in
“A No,
we made no plans at all. When we met, it
was for the purpose of getting our minds off of things and just talking; going
around and just eating together and then parting. That’s all there was to it. We wanted to lay low for awhile.
“Q Did
you ever discuss what might happen to you in case you were caught or
discovered?
“A Yes,
we thought about it. We did discuss what
would become of us in case we got caught but we didn’t find any definite answer
on that, you know.
“Q What
did you think about that?
“A Well,
we where hoping not to be caught.
“Q When
you though about being caught, what did you think?
“A Well,
I thought it would all be over.
“Q Would
you consider yourself a spy in this country?
“A I
don’t know.
“Q Well,
what do you consider yourself?
“A Well,
-- nothing in particular.
“Q You
were over here to work for
“A Yes.
“Q At
the time you entered the
903
“A No.
“Q Do
you consider yourself an agent of
“A Well,
something like that.
“Q As
a matter of fact, you promised your superiors in
“A Yes.
“Q When
you left
“A Yes,
it was.
“Q Would
you have carried out your instructions in the event you had not been
apprehended?
“A I
might have. I’m not sure.
“Q As
a matter of fact, you feel that your loyalty is to
“A Yes.
“Q In
the event
“A No
definite instructions, be we were supposed to come back to
“Q Sometime
ago I asked you concerning the training you received with incendiary pencils,
do you recall now whether you received any such training?
“A Yes.
“Q Will
you describe the training that you received in connection with these pencils?
904
“A I
know you could use them to start a fire with them, but I don’t know exactly how
it worked any more. I may recall it I
don’t know.
“Q Did
you experiment with these pencils when you were being trained on the farm, or
have them demonstrated to you?
“A They
were shown to us and explained to us, but I did not experiment with them.
“Q But
you did actually see one burn, is that correct?
“A I
did not see one burn.
“Q In
connection with the explosives which you brought with you on the submarine, do
you know whether there were any incendiary pencils contained therein?
“A I
did not actually see them put in the boxes, but I was told they were in the
boxes.
“Q In
connection with the pencils which you were told would be in these boxes,
explain the instructions you received in connection with their use.
“A You
will take the pencil apart and connect it some how so that it would burn
through a plate and the acid into another part and then it would ignite.
“Q At
the time you were told about these incendiary pencils, were any suggestions
made as to the use to which they were to be put?
“A To
start a fire in some place which was making war materials, such as warehouses,
factories, etc.
“Q In
connection with your instructions relative to these pencils, were to told the
length of time that
905
would elapse before the pencil would
burst into flame after it was adjusted for use?
“A They
told us the time was very indefinite because it depended on the
temperature. Sometimes it might take
half an hour, sometimes it might take an hour or even two hours.
The President. Will you pause, please? We will take a recess of five minutes.
(Whereupon a brief recess was had, at
the conclusion of which the following occurred:)
906
The President. The afternoon will be resumed. The Commission is now opened.
Colonel Munson. The personnel of the Commission, of the
prosecution, and of the defense, all sight of the accused, and the reporter are
present.
The witness is on the stand and is
reminded that he is still under oath.
The President. It is now
Proceed.
(The reading of the statement of the
defendant Quirin was resumed as follows:)
The witness (reading):
“Q. In
other words, they told you that these pencils were to be used to sabotage
warehouses and factories producing war materials, is that correct?
“A. Yes.
“Q. I
show you a vest and I ask you if you have ever seen it before.
“A. Yes,
that is my vest.
“Q. Examine
this vest and please state how you can identify it as being your vest.
“A. By
the color which is brown; there is a tear on the right side near the bottom in
the back. These was a cleaning tag on
the tip of the vest on the right side which I tore off, and there remains
several stitches on the inside of the vest.
“Q. When
do you last recall having this vest in your possession?
907
“A. It
was, I believe, in the sack where we had our clothes when we got off the
submarine.
“Q. You
have previously stated that you changed clothes on the beach after you landed
on
“A. I
put my clothes on in a hurry and I did not think of the vest at all at the
time, and upon seeing this vest, this is the first time I knew that I lost it.
“Q. Did
you have a suit that matched this vest?
“A. Exactly.
“Q. Do
you recall where this suit was purchased?
“A. At
Crawford’s, I think it was on
“Q. Did
you buy this suit prior to your return to
“A. Yes,
I bought it several years before I returned to
“Q. Can
you fix approximately the year when you bought this suit?
“A. Not
exactly; I had it, I think, three years.
“Q. Prior
to your departure from
“A. Yes,
we were told to wear our clothes that we had brought from the
“Q. Would
you give as your reason for not missing
908
your vest at the time, due to the fact
that you became frightened when George was stopped by the watchman on the
beach?
“A. Yes,
we dressed very hurriedly because we were frightened and afraid we might get
caught.
“Q. Did
either George, Pete, or Henry ever tell you that they also lost something at
the time they landed on the beach?
“A. Yes. I believe George said something about losing
a notebook.
“Q. Did
he tell you what was in the notebook?
“A. No.
“Q. Did
you ever see the notebook?
“A. I
don’t recall it.
“Q. Do
you know anything of the contents of this notebook?
“A. No.
“Q. Prior
to your departure from
“A. No.
“Q. Since
your arrival in the
“A. No.
“Q. Have
you any relatives living in the
“A. Yes,
I had, but, they are dead.
909
“Q. And,
their names were?
“A. Ernest
Wigleb. His
wife's first name was Emma, of
“Q. At
the time you were in
“A. Yes,
we were taught something about this, which I have forgotten.
“Q. Where
did they expect you to secure this type of material?
“A. Most
of it could be bought in drug stores.
“I have read this statement consisting
of 29 pages, and have had the same read to me.
I have signed each page of this statement and state that the same is
true to the best of my knowledge and belief.
This statement was given to me on June 20, 21, and 22, 1942.
(Signed) “Richard Quirin
“RICHARD
QUIRIN
(Signed) “R. Quirin.
“WITNESSES:
(Signed) “B. F. Wiand.
“B.
F. Wiand, Special Agent
“Federal
Bureau of Investigation
“United
States Department of Justice
“
“
(Signed)
“H. G. Foster
“H.
G. Foster, Special Agent
“Federal
Bureau of Investigation
“United
States Department of Justice
“
“
910
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q I
show you Exhibit P-150 and ask you if that is the statement you took on
A Yes,
sir, it is.
Q Is
it signed by Quirin at the end?
A Yes,
sir.
Q How
is it signed?
A Richard
Quirin--Q-u-i-r-i-n.
Q Is
each page signed?
A Yes,
it is.
Q How
is each page signed?
A "R.
Quirin."
Q Are
there corrections in ink?
A Yes,
I believe there are.
Q Who made those corrections?
A Those
corrections were made by the defendant Quirin, at which time he initialed them.
Q Were
those statements read in your presence?
A He
read them aloud in my presence.
Colonel Royall. I should like permission of the Commission to
interrogate the witness about the circumstances under which this statement was
taken.
The Attorney General. That is satisfactory to me.
PRELIMINARY
EXAMINATION
Questions by Colonel Royall:
Q Mr.
Wiand, what happened between the time the first
statement was signed by the defendant Quirin and the beginning of the
preparation of the second statement?
A During
the time I had talked with the defendant
911
Quirin,
at which time he gave me additional information that was not contained in the
original statement.
Q Were
there any other statements except these two?
A From
the defendant Quirin?
Q Yes.
A The
statement that I just read was originally taken, at which time there were some
statements made in there that he said were not true, so we started over and
made the statement to his liking, and he said the statements in the new
statement were true.
Q Where
is the first statement?
A The
first statement we did not complete. We
did not read it all to him, because he said that was all a lie. He didn't want to hear anything about it, so
we started a new statement.
Q Where
is that?
A I
don't know.
Q Are
these two statements the only ones you have?
A No,
I have a third statement.
Q What
is the date of it?
A July
3.
Q Mr.
Wiand, did you, prior to the beginning of the
preparation of this statement of June 25, or at any time during its
preparation, state to the defendant Quirin that he would fare better with the
Court if he made that statement, or did you make any similar remark to him?
A I
made no promise whatsoever to the defendant Quirin in obtaining these
statements.
Q That
was not what I asked you. I asked you,
did you make any statement that he would fare better with the Court or
912
get
better treatment if he made this statement.
A I
said this to the defendant Quirin: I
explained to him that as an agent of the F.B.I. it was my duty to collect facts
in this case and that I would appreciate his cooperation in giving me those
facts, and when that statement was read, it would show for itself that he had
cooperated to that extent. That is what
I told the defendant Quirin, but I made him no promises whatsoever.
Q I
will ask you a third time, did you tell him he would fare better with the Court
or receive better treatment, or make some similar statement, if he would make
the statement you requested?
A No,
sir; I didn't tell him he would fare better with the Court.
Q Did
you suggest that he might?
A No,
sir, I didn't.
Q Who
were present when this second statement was taken?
A I
was present during the entire time the statement was taken, and Special Agent
H. G. Foster was present at the time the defendant read it aloud.
Q Was
any other agent present?
A The
stenographer who took it was present.
Colonel Royall. All right, sir. Those are all the preliminary questions I
desire to ask.
The President. Colonel Ristine?
Colonel Ristine. No, I have no questions.
DIRECT EXAMINATION--Resumed
Questions by the Attorney General:
Q All
right. Will you please read the
statement?
913
(Exhibit P-150 was offered in
evidence.)
A (
“Exhibit
P-150
“
“
“I, Richard Quirin, make the following
statement to supplement the statement I gave on June 21, 22, and 23, 1942, to
Special Agent B. F. Wiand, whom I know to be an agent
of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
I make this statement voluntarily and on my own free will realizing that
I do not have to make the same and that it may be used as evidence in a court
of law.
“I was born in
“Up to this time, I lived with my
foster parents Ernst Tartsch. My mother had left me with them when I was
about two years old. I do not remember
my foster mother's name, but my foster father Ernst Tartsch
worked as a machinist near
“My mother owns a small apartment and
she has always made her living from the
914
money she receives from renting these
apartments. I went to school in
“I received the money to come to the
United States from my uncle Emil Quirin, who is now dead, but then worked as a
customs agent on the border between France and Germany at different
cities. He gave me 600 marks, which I
later paid back. I then went to
“It was not quite a week when I started
to work as a tinsmith helper. I think
the man's name was Blair and he had a tin shop in
915
Electric Company in
“My uncle in
“He took me to his boss a Mr. Simon and
I worked for him for about a half a year.
Some weeks I would
916
work four or five days and other weeks
more, and I received $4.50 a day but I started out making $3 a day. After that I looked for other jobs, most of
them were painting. One job that I
remember is that we painted in the Biltmore Hotel. While I was painting, I also worked for a Mr.
Fraystadt.
These people I worked for had no offices but would hire me when they
needed a painter and I received my pay on the job.
“Between 1930 and 1938, I worked at
various odd jobs, most of them painting.
I did have one job with the Multi-Needle Company for a while and we made
these big quilting machines that made quilts.
This place was located near the
“In 1936 I met my wife, whose maiden
name was Anna Sesselmann. She came from
“When I was in
917
first papers. I never did become a citizen because I was
not sure I was going to stay in the
“I used to go to Yorkville frequently
when we lived in
“I understood the purpose of the
Friends of New Germany was for the German born people here to get together, and
I think the idea was to help elect presidents of the United States and perhaps
to start a movement to get people to know about politics and to learn about the
New Germany and make them feel toward Germany that they were building up,
etc. It was also to make friends for New
Germany and I do not know if they received help from the German
Government. About 1934, they were having
a lot of trouble because some of the members thought some of the officers were
918
using the money and there were also
rumors going around that people who were not citizens should not belong to this
organization.
“I went to the German Consulate office
in
“The only other club I belonged to in
919
3rd and Lexington Avenues
and near
“I used to read the newspapers put out
by the Friends of New Germany, named ‘Deutsches Zeitung.’
“Since coming to the
920
“Mr.
Rauch gave me some work to do in the line of painting and he had a house in
“The
Consulate gave me my ticket to return to
“On
my arrival in
921
home
in
“I
saw the boss at the factory. I did not
know where I was supposed to work but I knew everything had been arranged. I was assigned to work at Volkswagenwerk
and was told to go to Volkswagenwerk where a man
would show my wife and I some apartments.
These apartments belonged to the factory and he showed us some and we
picked out one that had a living room, bed room, kitchen, and bath and rented
for 35 marks per month. The cheapest of
these apartments was 32 marks and the highest was 65 marks. We paid our own gas and electricity. These amounted to about 14 marks a
month. I did not sign a lease for the
apartment and I could only keep it as long as I worked for the factory.
“In
the living room, there was a rug, and the rest of the furniture consisted of a
couch, four chairs, a table and a china closet.
In the kitchen was a regular gas stove with two burners and the other
side was for coal. There was no ice box
and no refrigerator, but cold running water and a shower in the bath room. The construction of the walls was of plaster
and painted, with no wall paper. There
were no floor lamps but there were regular curtains. There were no blinds or black-out curtains.
“When
the war started, however, we were told to buy black paper to put up against the
windows. There were
922
wooden
varnished floors in the apartment and there were four apartments to a building,
two floors and the constructions was of stucco.
I heated my apartment with stoves in every room.
923
“The
fuel was ordered from a coal man for about 300 or 400 pounds, the coal was 10
marks. The coal was rationed after the
war started but we could still get enough and it was possible to keep one room
at least warm during the winter.
“We
had electric lights in the apartment and in the bedroom there were two beds and
two little tables with lights on them.
In the kitchen there was just a table, two chairs, a place for putting
dishes, a cabinet, and a sink. Not all
the people in Volkswagenwerk lived in places like
this. Only people from out of town. I think this city, Braunschweig,
had a population of about 180,000 and I would say around 10,000 worked at this
plant.
“I
signed a membership card for the Labor Front when I started to work. The dues were according to your
earnings. I made 350 to 400 marks a
month and my dues were 4 marks a month.
In regard to sick benefits or retirement reductions, when I make 350
marks they would take out something like 60 marks a month and it covered sick
benefits, old age pensions, and taxes.
“After
the war started, there was some rationing.
A person gets a half a pound of butter a week, about a pound of meat,
which is not cut down but if you work in a factory longer than eight hours, you
are allowed a little more and you could get an extra card for more meat; you
could have about four loaves of bread a week and all the potatoes you
wanted. Sugar, I don’t know. My wife did the marketing, but she got about
a half a pound a week, I think. Fruits
and vegetables were scarce. Whenever
924
they
came in, they were divided among regular customers of the store. At first only three cigarettes were allowed
to a person, then six and in some places ten a day.
“Automobiles
could only be used for business. The
people are not exactly discontent. Of
course, they do not like to work such long hours but they think it is necessary
on account of the war. I worked in the
factory from six in the morning until six at night with one hour off for
lunch. That was the usual shift. The factory didn’t work 24 hours a day. I made jigs and tools and the factory
produced tools to build cars. No trucks
or airplanes were built here. The cars
had four cylinders and I think 25 horsepower.
The first cars were closed but now they are starting to make open cars,
the kind where you leave the top down.
“At
the factory we wore identification badges which had the insignias of the
factory and a number but no picture. We
were allowed to go freely through the plant but wore certain colors, the
foreman had certain colors and the workers had other colors. My boss was Eugene Getner. He has never been in the
“The
instructions we received in relation to an air raid was to go to the
shelter. There was no particular place
built for this purpose and we went through the long halls and then down to the
basement where there were wash rooms and we had our lockers. This place was used as a shelter in case of
an air raid. I don’t know whether the
city of
925
“The
construction of the plant in which I worked was of concrete, having very large
windows on top and the sides. We did not
have to have electric lights by day but used light only early in the morning
when we started to work at about
“In
case we didn’t show up for work, we could be out for one day without notifying
the plant. We did not have individual
telephone numbers in our apartments but there was a public booth at the corner
that we used. I had no radio because
they were too expensive. I brought a
small one from
“We
brought our lunch to work with us and had an hour for it, eating in the hall
provided for that purpose. You could buy
hot meals there too. We were given hot
barley coffee with milk but with no sugar, I don’t think. It was weaker coffee than they used in this
country. We could not get any additional
milk at the plant but at home we could buy about a quart a day, depending on
the number of children in the family. I
had one child named Rosemarie, who was born on
926
not
as intoxicating, with much less alcohol.
Soap was rationed too. I don’t
know how much was allowed. Cans of
vegetables were scarce. Toothpaste was
easy to get and we were required to save the tubes. There was no ice cream at all but they had
ices. We were given eggs according to
the supply but never more than six per person per week. In the spring and summer there were more, in
the winter less.
“In
relation to entertainment, we could do as we pleased except dancing which was
not permitted. They had picture shows
which were regular movies similar to the ones they show in this country. Transportation on the railroads was only
restricted on weekends and holidays when the workers at the plants wanted to
return to their homes.
“I
received two weeks’ vacation every year and was allowed to travel and receive
pay for my vacations. During one time
when I was sick, I received compensation from the sick benefit fund, which I
would say was about 65% of my pay. The
doctor was free and if I needed hospital treatment, they would have furnished
that free, and then my wife would get money to live on if I stayed home. There were no particular regulations about
being on the streets at night. There
were guards at the factory to watch the doors and it was fenced in but there
were no soldiers. They had some Italian
laborers working on the factory enlarging it, and I believe a few French war
prisoners.
“When
I first went to work for Volkswagenwerk, I
927
became
acquainted with a fellow I knew as Henry Heinck. He also has used the name of Henry Kaynar. He ran a
drilling machine and worked at the same place I did in this factory.
“I think
it was in February, Walter Kappe came to Volkswagenwerk
and made a speech to all the people who had come back to
“On
the next day Henry came to me and told me that he had heard that they were
looking for some fellows that would go on a trip to
928
my
mother and I stayed there and left in time to get to the farm on the date I was
suppose to be there. On the way to the
farm, when I got off the bus, I met Henry at the bus stop and we went to the
farm on a lake called
“When
we got there, there was no one there. We
were the first ones and we gave him our names and he showed us our rooms and we
put our stuff in the rooms and then we went out and walked around the farm. Later in the day Kappe came to the farm and
met us, telling us to stick around the place and take it easy until the rest of
the boys arrived. They came in the next
few days, one or two at the same time. I
think there were nine that arrived and their names are Scotty, Henry Heinck,
Pete Burger, George Dasch, Eddie, Herman, Bill and Jerry Swenson. I think Herman’s or Bill’s last name was
Nicholas or something like that. I cannot
remember the other’s last name, and Scotty left in a short time.
“I
think we arrived on Tuesday and during this week the other fellows were
arriving and we just fooled around until Dr. Schultz and Dr. Koenig arrived on
Monday. I think this was around the
middle of April. Before Dr. Schultz and
Dr. Koenig arrived, Kappe talked to all of us saying we were to be instructed
in explosives and were being sent over to
929
help
“I don’t know exactly what this farm
was used for but one day I was talking to a farmer and he told me that they
were just keeping up the place and at one time there had been German pioneer
troops there training. The German
pioneer troops are the ones who go ahead of the soldiers, tear up mine fields,
and prepare the way for them.
“On this farm we lived in one building,
which was a regular farm house and there was another building there which
appeared to be a garage on top of which there was the school, and there were
what looked like two old barracks and some other farm buildings there but we
only used the farm house in which I slept and the garage where they had the
classes. On the second floor of this
garage there were tables, benches and a small chemical laboratory. We used a small part of the grounds on this
farm, which was close to this garage and in one place they had a big hole dug
where you could set off explosives and the stuff would not fly around.
“The next few days we had school, only
a few hours a day, and they explained to us what an explosion is, and what a
detonation is and theoretical things about explosives, and they told us that
this part of the work did not amount to much; it would just give us an idea of
what it was all about.
930
“Toward the end of the week they
explained to us certain explosives. They
mentioned dynamite, nitroglycerin, TNT, and black powder was in the fuses that
we were to use.
“This schooling started about the
middle of April, 1942 and, altogether, we received about three weeks of
schooling. They gave us different
formulas and told us how to make explosives.
Then we made these explosives from these formulas and experimented with
them in blowing up things on the farm. I
remember that I blew up a stump. I
cannot remember any of these formulas but we made up explosives from them and
they worked real well.
“During the school, they showed us some
yellow blocks of explosive about six inches wide and eight inches long. They told us this explosive was very stable,
that you could drop it, saw it, drill holes in it and you could even burn it
and that it would not explode. They said
it took a detonator to explode this yellow block which they told us was T.N.T.,
I think. They also showed us an
explosive that was black and looked like a lump of coal. They told us that it was the same stuff as
the yellow blocks and could be used in the same way. They explained to use the different types of
fuse, one of them was a white fuse that was to be used with the detonator
caps. They also explained another fuse
to us that could be used to set off several charges at once. This was a quick burning fuse and they told
us that this would be the type of fuse to blow down an electric power line,
that is, we could blow up all four posts at the
931
same time with just one blast. They told us that the only time we would have
to use this was when the legs of the tower were more than a yard apart. They also told us in connection with the
other fuse that a safe distance was one yard.
They explained to us about detonator caps. They told us that they were very dangerous,
and that you should not monkey around with them because they might go off. They told us to be sure and crimp it with
pliers when it was fastened to the fuse so that it would not slip off.
“I remember that they explained three
kinds of caps to us. One was an ordinary
explosive cap which was hooked to a fuse.
Then there was another cap to be used for explosives that could be used
only with a time clock which they showed us and which I will explain
later. This fuse fit into the time clock
and at the time the clock was set it would explode. They also showed us another cap that was to
be used in connection with the time clock for incendiaries or setting off
fires. They also showed us some timing
devices and one was a fourteen day clock and all you had to do was set it and
place the fuse in it and put in the explosive.
These devices also had a metal tube that fit into them so that if you
did not have the caps that were made for these clocks, you could use other
caps. Another timing device they showed
us was by taking a watch and by hooking electric wires to the hands. These wires were hooked up with batteries and
bending the hands so that when they came together they would touch and this
would set off the explosive.
932
“They showed us another one that was
made up by using a tin can with a wire in the bottom of it and a hole punched
in the bottom of the can. Then you
hooked a wire into a board or something that would float on top and then hook
these wires with batteries and when water ran out of the can they would come
together and set off the explosive. I
remember that they mentioned a way to make one by using dried peas and when
water was put on then they would swell but I don’t remember exactly how it was
made but I think it was something like the water can device.
933
“In connection with these devices, they
were drawn for us on the blackboard by either Dr. Koenig or Dr. Schultz but I
do not remember very much about them.
They also explained to us some incendiary devices used for starting
fires. One I remember was a pencil which
looked like an ordinary pencil and we were told these were to be used on
warehouses and places where war supplies were stored. This pencil had two compartments in it having
acid on one side and on the other side was another chemical that started a fire. To use the pencil you unscrewed it, turned it
over and then turned another screw that broke the glass so that acid could get
to the metal plate, and then screwed it together again and placed it in
whatever you wanted to set on fire. They
told us that these pencils would go off any time up to two hours and that it
depended on the weather, whether it was hot or in what kind of room it was
placed. They also told us that we could
use gasoline or benzene by pouring it on whatever we wanted to burn and then
setting it off with a fuse. They also
gave us some instructions how to mix up some stuff to start fires and one of
these was to mix some chemicals, I do not remember, with some sawdust wrap it
up in a package and set it off with the fuse.
We made some of this stuff and experimented with it and it made a big
fire.
“I remember now in connection with the
detonator caps, that one of the Doctors in explaining them, telling how
powerful they were, put one in a small pipe, touched a fuse, and he lighted this
fuse and it went off and
934
opened up the pipe. In connection with the yellow blocks I have
mentioned and the black lumps, the Doctors took us to this hole on the farm I
have mentioned and showed us how to blow up a railroad rail. They had a railroad rail there which was tied
down with timbers and they instructed us that two pounds of this yellow stuff
or the black stuff would be sufficient to blow up a rail, that that you should
place it on the side of the rail, then drill a hole in it, fix a fuse cap,
light it, and it would blow up the rail.
They did this, and after they lighted the fuse, we ran away until the
explosion went off and then went back and looked at the rail and it had blown
it in two and also blown a chunk out of it.
I remember that they also mentioned in connection with blowing up rails,
that if you could fix a device so that the explosion would go off when the
engine passed over it. It was something
that made contact when the engine ran over it and I remember you had to use a
battery with it and some wires but I do not remember anything else about
it. They told us that two pounds was
sufficient to blow up a railroad rail and that we should use this as a guide
when we wanted to blow up anything else.
“In connection with our sabotage work
in the
935
were used by factories in getting their
materials. I remember that I asked
George if they had told him any certain factories we were supposed to blow up
and they may have mentioned some but if they did I do no remember and he told
me that he would find out about that.
“When we were at this farm and
experimenting in the fields with these explosives, they gave us a black outfit
to wear, which had black trousers, black coat and black cap. All other times we wore our own clothes.
“In connection with obtaining
explosives in the
“They told us that another way we would
sabotage things in the
“In connection with our training at
this farm, when we got up in the morning, we had exercises first, then we had
breakfast. The meals I think were
prepared by the caretaker of the farm.
Then all of the fellows who were being trained got together and we read
English magazines and newspapers. Some
of the magazines I remember were Life, Saturday Evening Post, and the Times
newspaper. The latest of these and one I
don’t remember was dated in January 1942.
We also spoke English among ourselves so that we could learn to speak
English better and get used to it again.
Sometimes we would receive instructions in the morning and sometimes in
the evening, and they usually
936
lasted for about three hours a
day. Then we would play games and
exchange ideas on what we would do when we got in
“It was understood when we went to the
farm that we were to come to the
“George told me that we were supposed
to go to
937
“I remember one time Kappe asked me if
I knew anything about the Morse Code and I told him that I did not and that is
the last time anyone said anything to me about it.
“It was understood that George Dasch,
being our leader, would tell us what to do when we got to the
“Kappe told us that if we had friends
in the United States whom we thought would work for Germany, we should discuss
it among our group and all agree on whether it would be a good thing to go see
them, and it was understood that George had to know about the people first that
we were to come into contact with and if we got his approval and we all agreed
on it, then we would contact them and see if they would help in our sabotage
work.
“George also told me one time that I
was to look out for Henry. One reason
for this was because sometimes he would get drunk and would not know when to
stop drinking.
“While we were at the farm, there were
two groups. In our group was George Dasch,
Henry Heinck, Pete Burger, Jerry Swenson and myself. There was another group there being trained
and in this group were Herman, Bill, Eddie and Herbie. Either Bill or Herman used the last name of
Nicholas or Nickelson. The reason I do not know their names is
because each of these groups was trained together and we would be doing
something while they were doing something else.
I know that the second group I
938
have mentioned has come to the
“I remember the last night we were at
the farm, Dr. Koenig or Dr. Schultz told us that we were to play like we were
going to blow up a manufacturing plant.
They pointed out a certain spot that was supposed to be this factory and
this was to take place at night and they were to be the guards of the
factory. We were to work in pairs. I worked with George Dasch. The day before George and I had prepared an
incendiary package and I fixed up a watch was I have previously explained, with
wires so that the hands would make contacts and set off the incendiary. We also used batteries. The Doctors told us that we were not to make
any noise and to sneak into this spot and place our explosives and try to do
this without their seeing us. George and
I went to our spot and placed this stuff and the instructors stared throwing
firecrackers at us to try to scare us.
It was understood that this package we used was not to burn and we were
merely playing like it would burn, but some of the stuff some of the fellows
used did actually burn or blow up. I
think the reason they didn’t want ours to burn was because it would destroy the
clock and everything which we were using.
I think Pete and Henry worked together on this night and I do not know
what they did.
“One day while we were at the farm, I
went with Kappe and I filled out a paper.
I was told that my wife
939
was to receive 300.00 marks a month
which was for her and my daughter, Rose Marie’s support. Kappe also told me that if I was permanently
hurt, I would receive a pension and that if anything happened to me, my wife
would get less money but she would be taken care of. He told me that after the war was over, we
were to return to
“I remember now that there was one
fellow who came there when we first got there and he was there for only a few
days and left. I do not remember his
name.
“After we had completed our course at
the farm, Kappe told us that we were to report back to
“They had given us some money when we
came to the farm and when we left, Henry and I went together to
940
is Jacob Sesselmann
and he is a farmer. I do not remember my
mother-in-law’s first name. I believe we
left the farm about the end of April and I stayed with my wife at Kuinbach with her parents and left just in time to get to
“While I was in
941
Hanover,
“We went back to the office several
times to see Kappe before he told us we were ready to leave. I think the day before we left the explosives
we were to use in connection with our work in the
“He told us that the next day we were
supposed to meet at a station at a time he set and the boxes were brought there
too and we took them in the train and went to
“About three or four days before we
left Paris, Bill, Herman, Herbie, and Eddie left
942
“When we left
“When we got ready to leave the hotel
to go to the submarine, we put on a uniform which is used by the German
soldiers for work, which was gray pants and gray jacket to match and a regular
Army cap. This cap had on the front of
it an eagle with a triangle and a button in the middle that we call a ‘Cokarde.’
“We traveled from
943
the submarine, we were met by the
Commander and he and Kappe exchanged salutes.
We went with him down into the submarine by walking on a gangplank to
this ship I have mentioned and then walking over the ship and down a stairway
or ladder to the submarine. When we got
on the submarine, there were four of us not counting Kappe and they were
myself, Pete Burger, George Dasch, and Henry Heinck. The Captain, Kappe and the four of us sat
down at a table where we had a drink.
Kappe only remained there for a few minutes and each one merely wished
the other goodbye and good luck.
“I forgot to say that before we got on
the submarine we went to a hotel in a little town. I think that the name of this little town was
“The submarine, I would say was about
two hundred and ten feet. When we left
“I think we left
944
time I saw that he had a big pile of
money with him. He did not discuss the
money at all on this submarine. One the
way over, the Captain told us that we were to be landed on
“When we were getting near
The President. Will the witness please inform me how many
more pages he has?
The Witness. This is page 17, sir, and it is 21 pages.
The President. We will adjourn until
(At 4:30 o’clock p.m., Tuesday, July
14, 1942, an adjournment was taken until 10 o’clock a.m., Wednesday, July 15,
1942.)